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Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
I appologize if this is a cross post. People over in alt.jeep-l
suggested i post here... Let me preface this by saying I only know a bit about cars. I can change a serpentine belt and replace disk brakes, but that's about where it ends. Sorry for the length of the post, I'm just trying to be clear. Anyway ... I purchased a used 2000 Cherokee Sport i6 4.0, 55K miles. I've had a number of problems with it. The biggest problem is overheating. About a month a ago the car started to overheat on a 15 minute ride around town. The latch on the hood broke when I went to take a look, so I couldn't inspect. So i took it to my local mechanic. He said the coolant was nasty so he flushed my radiator and replaced the thermostat. $165 The problem reappeared. I was on a long drive and the car overheated. This time I could open the hood :-) The car was out of antifreeze. I was able to add anti-freeze and make it home with the temperature just a notch above normal. So I take it to mechanic #2 because I wasn't comfortable with the first. This might not be my smartest move ever, read on… Mechanic #2 tells me the water pump is leaking. He replaces the water pump. I also complained of the idle not being smooth (seemingly unrelated). He tells me bad coil pack so I'm only running on 3-5 cylinders. He performs a full tune up replacing all spark plugs, air filter, spark plug wires and the coil pack. $550. About 2 weeks later the car start overheating. Again low on anti-freeze I take it back to mechanic #2. This time I can see some steam coming out of the radiator where one of the hoses attaches (top left if I'm standing at the grill). He tells the joint on the radiator broke, radiator needs to be replaced. So he replaces radiator, radiator cap and hoses. I also complain that its still not idling correctly, they make adjustments. It's a bit better, but not nearly as smooth as it was right after the tune up, so it goes. $475. About 2 weeks after this I'm driving on the highway and as I'm nearing my destination the car starts running a notch hot. I stop and look the anti-freeze is low. I put anti-freeze in. On my drive home the car overheats a number of times. I bring it back to mechanic #2 …fuming at this point …. He performs what he called a "full leak down test". He said they could not find any leaks. He also tested the head gasket, said that was fine. His conclusion? The engine is bad, replace it. Even though the car is out of warranty (65K miles) he suggested I could fight with Chrysler over the engine. So I'm searching Google, trying to come up with information and determine if I am getting railed. I came across this story. It seems remarkably similar. http://www.aera.org/Members/EngineTech/failure.htm Am I getting hosed? Are there really grounds for me to get Chrysler to fix it? Did the mechanic strip something putting in a spark plug (see external story)? Do I really need to replace the engine? Any input would be really appreciated. Spending $3500 to replace the engine just doesn't seem like a viable options right now. Could it be the fule injection system be messed up and running really really lean? I tried to look at the fan clutch, but it seems like the fan stops as soon as i turn the engine off. Is that still an option ? Thanks in advance for you help /advice. -eric |
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
Eric B did pass the time by typing:
> Am I getting hosed? Dunno. <a few thoughts> Coolant has to go somewhere. 1) crack in line to overflow bottle .. Jeep uses a closed system, overflow goes into the coolant bottle and gets sucked back in as the engine cools. A leak here or a broken bottle will slowly drain coolant. There should be no air in the radiator. It should be fully topped off and the overflow bottle should be filled to just above the low mark when the vehicle is cold. 2) leak in the return hose/supply hose/radiator .. Usually easy to spot as a stream of water and lots of wet under the hood 3) leak in the heater core .. this creates a swamp like situation inside 4) cracked head gasket .. water gets into the engine oil, check the dipstick for white foam. .. water gets into the engine and gets burned, check for white smoke when you drive. (very noticeable, much more than the white cloud you get when the engine warms up in the morning) 5) leaky water pump .. This can be a slow leak or just a drip. feel around the water pump pulley there is a tiny weep hole. This should be dry. 6) buggered up radiator causing overheat. If the last person put any of that "no leak" or junk-in-a-can into the coolant system the radiator might be plugged. -- DougW |
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
Eric B did pass the time by typing:
> Am I getting hosed? Dunno. <a few thoughts> Coolant has to go somewhere. 1) crack in line to overflow bottle .. Jeep uses a closed system, overflow goes into the coolant bottle and gets sucked back in as the engine cools. A leak here or a broken bottle will slowly drain coolant. There should be no air in the radiator. It should be fully topped off and the overflow bottle should be filled to just above the low mark when the vehicle is cold. 2) leak in the return hose/supply hose/radiator .. Usually easy to spot as a stream of water and lots of wet under the hood 3) leak in the heater core .. this creates a swamp like situation inside 4) cracked head gasket .. water gets into the engine oil, check the dipstick for white foam. .. water gets into the engine and gets burned, check for white smoke when you drive. (very noticeable, much more than the white cloud you get when the engine warms up in the morning) 5) leaky water pump .. This can be a slow leak or just a drip. feel around the water pump pulley there is a tiny weep hole. This should be dry. 6) buggered up radiator causing overheat. If the last person put any of that "no leak" or junk-in-a-can into the coolant system the radiator might be plugged. -- DougW |
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
Eric B did pass the time by typing:
> Am I getting hosed? Dunno. <a few thoughts> Coolant has to go somewhere. 1) crack in line to overflow bottle .. Jeep uses a closed system, overflow goes into the coolant bottle and gets sucked back in as the engine cools. A leak here or a broken bottle will slowly drain coolant. There should be no air in the radiator. It should be fully topped off and the overflow bottle should be filled to just above the low mark when the vehicle is cold. 2) leak in the return hose/supply hose/radiator .. Usually easy to spot as a stream of water and lots of wet under the hood 3) leak in the heater core .. this creates a swamp like situation inside 4) cracked head gasket .. water gets into the engine oil, check the dipstick for white foam. .. water gets into the engine and gets burned, check for white smoke when you drive. (very noticeable, much more than the white cloud you get when the engine warms up in the morning) 5) leaky water pump .. This can be a slow leak or just a drip. feel around the water pump pulley there is a tiny weep hole. This should be dry. 6) buggered up radiator causing overheat. If the last person put any of that "no leak" or junk-in-a-can into the coolant system the radiator might be plugged. -- DougW |
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
Well, you definitely had a coolant loss. You know that your engine
overheated due to low coolant level. Mechanic B said the water pump and radiator leaked, and replaced them. Long story short, it still apparently has a coolant loss that Mechanic B can't get a handle on. That's the way I read this. Time to go to Mechanic C. You gave B a lot of money to replace parts, but you need some serious diagnostic ability. You have to find a mechanic that will pinpoint the coolant loss. B's suggestion of replacing the engine sounds like he is throwing his hands up in the air, based on the way you tell the story. Chrysler isn't inclined to help you out with this. You didn't buy it from them originally, and you apparently didn't inherit the 7/70 warranty from the original owner. Make an appointment with the local Jeep dealer. Give them the $75 or so they want to diagnose it, and let them tell you what is actually wrong. I know a lot of people have a hard on for the dealers, but let's face it: these guys stare at 4.0 liter engines all day every day, they might just know something about them. Then when they tell you what is wrong, ask them to explain how they came to that conclusion, so that you are clear, i.e. "we measured hydrocarbons in your cooling system, indicating a bad head gasket or failed hard part." Don't give B any more of your money. He has taken enough of it, and does not deserve your repeat business. Jerry "Eric B" <ericsbounce-google@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:45db61e5.0403031828.50b0c326@posting.google.c om... > I appologize if this is a cross post. People over in alt.jeep-l > suggested i post here... > > Let me preface this by saying I only know a bit about cars. I can > change a serpentine belt and replace disk brakes, but that's about > where it ends. Sorry for the length of the post, I'm just trying to be > clear. Anyway ... > > I purchased a used 2000 Cherokee Sport i6 4.0, 55K miles. I've had a > number of problems with it. The biggest problem is overheating. > > About a month a ago the car started to overheat on a 15 minute ride > around town. The latch on the hood broke when I went to take a look, > so I couldn't inspect. So i took it to my local mechanic. He said > the coolant was nasty so he flushed my radiator and replaced the > thermostat. $165 > > The problem reappeared. I was on a long drive and the car overheated. > This time I could open the hood :-) The car was out of antifreeze. > I was able to add anti-freeze and make it home with the temperature > just a notch above normal. So I take it to mechanic #2 because I > wasn't comfortable with the first. This might not be my smartest move > ever, read on. > > Mechanic #2 tells me the water pump is leaking. He replaces the water > pump. I also complained of the idle not being smooth (seemingly > unrelated). He tells me bad coil pack so I'm only running on 3-5 > cylinders. He performs a full tune up replacing all spark plugs, air > filter, spark plug wires and the coil pack. $550. > > About 2 weeks later the car start overheating. Again low on > anti-freeze I take it back to mechanic #2. This time I can see some > steam coming out of the radiator where one of the hoses attaches (top > left if I'm standing at the grill). He tells the joint on the > radiator broke, radiator needs to be replaced. So he replaces > radiator, radiator cap and hoses. I also complain that its still not > idling correctly, they make adjustments. It's a bit better, but not > nearly as smooth as it was right after the tune up, so it goes. $475. > > About 2 weeks after this I'm driving on the highway and as I'm nearing > my destination the car starts running a notch hot. I stop and look > the anti-freeze is low. I put anti-freeze in. On my drive home the > car overheats a number of times. I bring it back to mechanic #2 > .fuming at this point .. He performs what he called a "full leak > down test". He said they could not find any leaks. He also tested > the head gasket, said that was fine. His conclusion? The engine is > bad, replace it. Even though the car is out of warranty (65K miles) > he suggested I could fight with Chrysler over the engine. > > So I'm searching Google, trying to come up with information and > determine if I am getting railed. I came across this story. It > seems remarkably similar. > http://www.aera.org/Members/EngineTech/failure.htm > > > Am I getting hosed? > Are there really grounds for me to get Chrysler to fix it? > Did the mechanic strip something putting in a spark plug (see external > story)? > Do I really need to replace the engine? > > Any input would be really appreciated. Spending $3500 to replace the > engine just doesn't seem like a viable options right now. > > Could it be the fule injection system be messed up and running really > really lean? > > I tried to look at the fan clutch, but it seems like the fan stops as > soon as i turn the engine off. Is that still an option ? > > Thanks in advance for you help /advice. > -eric |
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
Well, you definitely had a coolant loss. You know that your engine
overheated due to low coolant level. Mechanic B said the water pump and radiator leaked, and replaced them. Long story short, it still apparently has a coolant loss that Mechanic B can't get a handle on. That's the way I read this. Time to go to Mechanic C. You gave B a lot of money to replace parts, but you need some serious diagnostic ability. You have to find a mechanic that will pinpoint the coolant loss. B's suggestion of replacing the engine sounds like he is throwing his hands up in the air, based on the way you tell the story. Chrysler isn't inclined to help you out with this. You didn't buy it from them originally, and you apparently didn't inherit the 7/70 warranty from the original owner. Make an appointment with the local Jeep dealer. Give them the $75 or so they want to diagnose it, and let them tell you what is actually wrong. I know a lot of people have a hard on for the dealers, but let's face it: these guys stare at 4.0 liter engines all day every day, they might just know something about them. Then when they tell you what is wrong, ask them to explain how they came to that conclusion, so that you are clear, i.e. "we measured hydrocarbons in your cooling system, indicating a bad head gasket or failed hard part." Don't give B any more of your money. He has taken enough of it, and does not deserve your repeat business. Jerry "Eric B" <ericsbounce-google@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:45db61e5.0403031828.50b0c326@posting.google.c om... > I appologize if this is a cross post. People over in alt.jeep-l > suggested i post here... > > Let me preface this by saying I only know a bit about cars. I can > change a serpentine belt and replace disk brakes, but that's about > where it ends. Sorry for the length of the post, I'm just trying to be > clear. Anyway ... > > I purchased a used 2000 Cherokee Sport i6 4.0, 55K miles. I've had a > number of problems with it. The biggest problem is overheating. > > About a month a ago the car started to overheat on a 15 minute ride > around town. The latch on the hood broke when I went to take a look, > so I couldn't inspect. So i took it to my local mechanic. He said > the coolant was nasty so he flushed my radiator and replaced the > thermostat. $165 > > The problem reappeared. I was on a long drive and the car overheated. > This time I could open the hood :-) The car was out of antifreeze. > I was able to add anti-freeze and make it home with the temperature > just a notch above normal. So I take it to mechanic #2 because I > wasn't comfortable with the first. This might not be my smartest move > ever, read on. > > Mechanic #2 tells me the water pump is leaking. He replaces the water > pump. I also complained of the idle not being smooth (seemingly > unrelated). He tells me bad coil pack so I'm only running on 3-5 > cylinders. He performs a full tune up replacing all spark plugs, air > filter, spark plug wires and the coil pack. $550. > > About 2 weeks later the car start overheating. Again low on > anti-freeze I take it back to mechanic #2. This time I can see some > steam coming out of the radiator where one of the hoses attaches (top > left if I'm standing at the grill). He tells the joint on the > radiator broke, radiator needs to be replaced. So he replaces > radiator, radiator cap and hoses. I also complain that its still not > idling correctly, they make adjustments. It's a bit better, but not > nearly as smooth as it was right after the tune up, so it goes. $475. > > About 2 weeks after this I'm driving on the highway and as I'm nearing > my destination the car starts running a notch hot. I stop and look > the anti-freeze is low. I put anti-freeze in. On my drive home the > car overheats a number of times. I bring it back to mechanic #2 > .fuming at this point .. He performs what he called a "full leak > down test". He said they could not find any leaks. He also tested > the head gasket, said that was fine. His conclusion? The engine is > bad, replace it. Even though the car is out of warranty (65K miles) > he suggested I could fight with Chrysler over the engine. > > So I'm searching Google, trying to come up with information and > determine if I am getting railed. I came across this story. It > seems remarkably similar. > http://www.aera.org/Members/EngineTech/failure.htm > > > Am I getting hosed? > Are there really grounds for me to get Chrysler to fix it? > Did the mechanic strip something putting in a spark plug (see external > story)? > Do I really need to replace the engine? > > Any input would be really appreciated. Spending $3500 to replace the > engine just doesn't seem like a viable options right now. > > Could it be the fule injection system be messed up and running really > really lean? > > I tried to look at the fan clutch, but it seems like the fan stops as > soon as i turn the engine off. Is that still an option ? > > Thanks in advance for you help /advice. > -eric |
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
Well, you definitely had a coolant loss. You know that your engine
overheated due to low coolant level. Mechanic B said the water pump and radiator leaked, and replaced them. Long story short, it still apparently has a coolant loss that Mechanic B can't get a handle on. That's the way I read this. Time to go to Mechanic C. You gave B a lot of money to replace parts, but you need some serious diagnostic ability. You have to find a mechanic that will pinpoint the coolant loss. B's suggestion of replacing the engine sounds like he is throwing his hands up in the air, based on the way you tell the story. Chrysler isn't inclined to help you out with this. You didn't buy it from them originally, and you apparently didn't inherit the 7/70 warranty from the original owner. Make an appointment with the local Jeep dealer. Give them the $75 or so they want to diagnose it, and let them tell you what is actually wrong. I know a lot of people have a hard on for the dealers, but let's face it: these guys stare at 4.0 liter engines all day every day, they might just know something about them. Then when they tell you what is wrong, ask them to explain how they came to that conclusion, so that you are clear, i.e. "we measured hydrocarbons in your cooling system, indicating a bad head gasket or failed hard part." Don't give B any more of your money. He has taken enough of it, and does not deserve your repeat business. Jerry "Eric B" <ericsbounce-google@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:45db61e5.0403031828.50b0c326@posting.google.c om... > I appologize if this is a cross post. People over in alt.jeep-l > suggested i post here... > > Let me preface this by saying I only know a bit about cars. I can > change a serpentine belt and replace disk brakes, but that's about > where it ends. Sorry for the length of the post, I'm just trying to be > clear. Anyway ... > > I purchased a used 2000 Cherokee Sport i6 4.0, 55K miles. I've had a > number of problems with it. The biggest problem is overheating. > > About a month a ago the car started to overheat on a 15 minute ride > around town. The latch on the hood broke when I went to take a look, > so I couldn't inspect. So i took it to my local mechanic. He said > the coolant was nasty so he flushed my radiator and replaced the > thermostat. $165 > > The problem reappeared. I was on a long drive and the car overheated. > This time I could open the hood :-) The car was out of antifreeze. > I was able to add anti-freeze and make it home with the temperature > just a notch above normal. So I take it to mechanic #2 because I > wasn't comfortable with the first. This might not be my smartest move > ever, read on. > > Mechanic #2 tells me the water pump is leaking. He replaces the water > pump. I also complained of the idle not being smooth (seemingly > unrelated). He tells me bad coil pack so I'm only running on 3-5 > cylinders. He performs a full tune up replacing all spark plugs, air > filter, spark plug wires and the coil pack. $550. > > About 2 weeks later the car start overheating. Again low on > anti-freeze I take it back to mechanic #2. This time I can see some > steam coming out of the radiator where one of the hoses attaches (top > left if I'm standing at the grill). He tells the joint on the > radiator broke, radiator needs to be replaced. So he replaces > radiator, radiator cap and hoses. I also complain that its still not > idling correctly, they make adjustments. It's a bit better, but not > nearly as smooth as it was right after the tune up, so it goes. $475. > > About 2 weeks after this I'm driving on the highway and as I'm nearing > my destination the car starts running a notch hot. I stop and look > the anti-freeze is low. I put anti-freeze in. On my drive home the > car overheats a number of times. I bring it back to mechanic #2 > .fuming at this point .. He performs what he called a "full leak > down test". He said they could not find any leaks. He also tested > the head gasket, said that was fine. His conclusion? The engine is > bad, replace it. Even though the car is out of warranty (65K miles) > he suggested I could fight with Chrysler over the engine. > > So I'm searching Google, trying to come up with information and > determine if I am getting railed. I came across this story. It > seems remarkably similar. > http://www.aera.org/Members/EngineTech/failure.htm > > > Am I getting hosed? > Are there really grounds for me to get Chrysler to fix it? > Did the mechanic strip something putting in a spark plug (see external > story)? > Do I really need to replace the engine? > > Any input would be really appreciated. Spending $3500 to replace the > engine just doesn't seem like a viable options right now. > > Could it be the fule injection system be messed up and running really > really lean? > > I tried to look at the fan clutch, but it seems like the fan stops as > soon as i turn the engine off. Is that still an option ? > > Thanks in advance for you help /advice. > -eric |
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 02:46:47 UTC "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote: > Eric B did pass the time by typing: > > > Am I getting hosed? > > Dunno. > > <a few thoughts> > > Coolant has to go somewhere. > > 1) crack in line to overflow bottle > . Jeep uses a closed system, overflow goes into > the coolant bottle and gets sucked back in as > the engine cools. A leak here or a broken bottle > will slowly drain coolant. There should be no air > in the radiator. It should be fully topped off and the > overflow bottle should be filled to just above the low > mark when the vehicle is cold. > > 2) leak in the return hose/supply hose/radiator > . Usually easy to spot as a stream of water > and lots of wet under the hood > > 3) leak in the heater core > . this creates a swamp like situation inside > > 4) cracked head gasket > . water gets into the engine oil, check the dipstick > for white foam. > . water gets into the engine and gets burned, check for > white smoke when you drive. (very noticeable, much more > than the white cloud you get when the engine warms up in > the morning) > > 5) leaky water pump > . This can be a slow leak or just a drip. feel around > the water pump pulley there is a tiny weep hole. This should > be dry. > > 6) buggered up radiator causing overheat. > If the last person put any of that "no leak" or junk-in-a-can > into the coolant system the radiator might be plugged. Add one even simpler possibility: bad pressure cap letting fluid escape. Hard to see. The 2000 doesn't use the closed cooling system, does it? I thought they got rid of that POS when Chrysler took over back about 90-91. -- Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> |
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 02:46:47 UTC "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote: > Eric B did pass the time by typing: > > > Am I getting hosed? > > Dunno. > > <a few thoughts> > > Coolant has to go somewhere. > > 1) crack in line to overflow bottle > . Jeep uses a closed system, overflow goes into > the coolant bottle and gets sucked back in as > the engine cools. A leak here or a broken bottle > will slowly drain coolant. There should be no air > in the radiator. It should be fully topped off and the > overflow bottle should be filled to just above the low > mark when the vehicle is cold. > > 2) leak in the return hose/supply hose/radiator > . Usually easy to spot as a stream of water > and lots of wet under the hood > > 3) leak in the heater core > . this creates a swamp like situation inside > > 4) cracked head gasket > . water gets into the engine oil, check the dipstick > for white foam. > . water gets into the engine and gets burned, check for > white smoke when you drive. (very noticeable, much more > than the white cloud you get when the engine warms up in > the morning) > > 5) leaky water pump > . This can be a slow leak or just a drip. feel around > the water pump pulley there is a tiny weep hole. This should > be dry. > > 6) buggered up radiator causing overheat. > If the last person put any of that "no leak" or junk-in-a-can > into the coolant system the radiator might be plugged. Add one even simpler possibility: bad pressure cap letting fluid escape. Hard to see. The 2000 doesn't use the closed cooling system, does it? I thought they got rid of that POS when Chrysler took over back about 90-91. -- Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> |
Re: Cherokee Overheating - Replace Engine ?
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 02:46:47 UTC "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote: > Eric B did pass the time by typing: > > > Am I getting hosed? > > Dunno. > > <a few thoughts> > > Coolant has to go somewhere. > > 1) crack in line to overflow bottle > . Jeep uses a closed system, overflow goes into > the coolant bottle and gets sucked back in as > the engine cools. A leak here or a broken bottle > will slowly drain coolant. There should be no air > in the radiator. It should be fully topped off and the > overflow bottle should be filled to just above the low > mark when the vehicle is cold. > > 2) leak in the return hose/supply hose/radiator > . Usually easy to spot as a stream of water > and lots of wet under the hood > > 3) leak in the heater core > . this creates a swamp like situation inside > > 4) cracked head gasket > . water gets into the engine oil, check the dipstick > for white foam. > . water gets into the engine and gets burned, check for > white smoke when you drive. (very noticeable, much more > than the white cloud you get when the engine warms up in > the morning) > > 5) leaky water pump > . This can be a slow leak or just a drip. feel around > the water pump pulley there is a tiny weep hole. This should > be dry. > > 6) buggered up radiator causing overheat. > If the last person put any of that "no leak" or junk-in-a-can > into the coolant system the radiator might be plugged. Add one even simpler possibility: bad pressure cap letting fluid escape. Hard to see. The 2000 doesn't use the closed cooling system, does it? I thought they got rid of that POS when Chrysler took over back about 90-91. -- Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> |
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