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Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH
Tracie wrote:
>>>> Mike -- >>>> Is the clutch pedal shaft and linkage the same thing or have anything >>>> to do with the clutch push rods? I did find a TSB out for my year and >>>> make jeep for these parts; however, my jeep was not manufactured >>>> during the 'specified' time frame. Of course, that's not to say they >>>> didn't miss something or didn't quite fix the problem prior to >>>> manufacturing mine. >>> Yes! That 'push rod' and it's sliding switch is the part I think is >>> bad! Either it is physically bad or the MC it pushes on is physically bad. >>> If that is the bad part, then for sure it has damaged the new clutch kit. >>> Mike- Hide quoted text - >>> - Show quoted text - >> I thought maybe. THANKS!! >> >> I will keep you updated on exactly what the problem was when I take it >> in to the dealer for a look-see. I'm sure you're right....from all >> the posts I have read in the past you usually are. :D- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > OK....just to sum everything up -- if the 'push rods' and its sliding > switch are bad and/or if the MC is bad, then those parts will need to > be replaced AND the new parts that were just replaced (clutch > actuator, hydraulics, release bearing, and clutch/pressure plate kit) > will ALL need to be replaced again. Just for good measure, the > throwout bearing should be greased as well. Am I missing anything? > Do you think the slave cylinder would need to be replaced as well, or > just the MC? > The throw out bearing is not greaseable, it is a sealed bearing these days I believe. If the MC and the rod were the problem all along, then I would suspect overheating and/or wear damage to the throw out bearing and the clutch pressure plate just like last time. I do not see the need for a new slave. Mike |
Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH
On Jul 26, 11:34 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Tracie wrote: > >>>> Mike -- > >>>> Is the clutch pedal shaft and linkage the same thing or have anything > >>>> to do with the clutch push rods? I did find a TSB out for my year and > >>>> make jeep for these parts; however, my jeep was not manufactured > >>>> during the 'specified' time frame. Of course, that's not to say they > >>>> didn't miss something or didn't quite fix the problem prior to > >>>> manufacturing mine. > >>> Yes! That 'push rod' and it's sliding switch is the part I think is > >>> bad! Either it is physically bad or the MC it pushes on is physically bad. > >>> If that is the bad part, then for sure it has damaged the new clutch kit. > >>> Mike- Hide quoted text - > >>> - Show quoted text - > >> I thought maybe. THANKS!! > > >> I will keep you updated on exactly what the problem was when I take it > >> in to the dealer for a look-see. I'm sure you're right....from all > >> the posts I have read in the past you usually are. :D- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > OK....just to sum everything up -- if the 'push rods' and its sliding > > switch are bad and/or if the MC is bad, then those parts will need to > > be replaced AND the new parts that were just replaced (clutch > > actuator, hydraulics, release bearing, and clutch/pressure plate kit) > > will ALL need to be replaced again. Just for good measure, the > > throwout bearing should be greased as well. Am I missing anything? > > Do you think the slave cylinder would need to be replaced as well, or > > just the MC? > > The throw out bearing is not greaseable, it is a sealed bearing these > days I believe. > > If the MC and the rod were the problem all along, then I would suspect > overheating and/or wear damage to the throw out bearing and the clutch > pressure plate just like last time. > > I do not see the need for a new slave. > > Mike- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Oh, the T.O. bearing is pre-packed. I knew that, but forgot. Not to sound silly, but the release bearing and the throwout bearing are the same part, right? |
Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH
On Jul 26, 11:34 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Tracie wrote: > >>>> Mike -- > >>>> Is the clutch pedal shaft and linkage the same thing or have anything > >>>> to do with the clutch push rods? I did find a TSB out for my year and > >>>> make jeep for these parts; however, my jeep was not manufactured > >>>> during the 'specified' time frame. Of course, that's not to say they > >>>> didn't miss something or didn't quite fix the problem prior to > >>>> manufacturing mine. > >>> Yes! That 'push rod' and it's sliding switch is the part I think is > >>> bad! Either it is physically bad or the MC it pushes on is physically bad. > >>> If that is the bad part, then for sure it has damaged the new clutch kit. > >>> Mike- Hide quoted text - > >>> - Show quoted text - > >> I thought maybe. THANKS!! > > >> I will keep you updated on exactly what the problem was when I take it > >> in to the dealer for a look-see. I'm sure you're right....from all > >> the posts I have read in the past you usually are. :D- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > OK....just to sum everything up -- if the 'push rods' and its sliding > > switch are bad and/or if the MC is bad, then those parts will need to > > be replaced AND the new parts that were just replaced (clutch > > actuator, hydraulics, release bearing, and clutch/pressure plate kit) > > will ALL need to be replaced again. Just for good measure, the > > throwout bearing should be greased as well. Am I missing anything? > > Do you think the slave cylinder would need to be replaced as well, or > > just the MC? > > The throw out bearing is not greaseable, it is a sealed bearing these > days I believe. > > If the MC and the rod were the problem all along, then I would suspect > overheating and/or wear damage to the throw out bearing and the clutch > pressure plate just like last time. > > I do not see the need for a new slave. > > Mike- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Oh, the T.O. bearing is pre-packed. I knew that, but forgot. Not to sound silly, but the release bearing and the throwout bearing are the same part, right? |
Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH
On Jul 26, 11:34 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Tracie wrote: > >>>> Mike -- > >>>> Is the clutch pedal shaft and linkage the same thing or have anything > >>>> to do with the clutch push rods? I did find a TSB out for my year and > >>>> make jeep for these parts; however, my jeep was not manufactured > >>>> during the 'specified' time frame. Of course, that's not to say they > >>>> didn't miss something or didn't quite fix the problem prior to > >>>> manufacturing mine. > >>> Yes! That 'push rod' and it's sliding switch is the part I think is > >>> bad! Either it is physically bad or the MC it pushes on is physically bad. > >>> If that is the bad part, then for sure it has damaged the new clutch kit. > >>> Mike- Hide quoted text - > >>> - Show quoted text - > >> I thought maybe. THANKS!! > > >> I will keep you updated on exactly what the problem was when I take it > >> in to the dealer for a look-see. I'm sure you're right....from all > >> the posts I have read in the past you usually are. :D- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > OK....just to sum everything up -- if the 'push rods' and its sliding > > switch are bad and/or if the MC is bad, then those parts will need to > > be replaced AND the new parts that were just replaced (clutch > > actuator, hydraulics, release bearing, and clutch/pressure plate kit) > > will ALL need to be replaced again. Just for good measure, the > > throwout bearing should be greased as well. Am I missing anything? > > Do you think the slave cylinder would need to be replaced as well, or > > just the MC? > > The throw out bearing is not greaseable, it is a sealed bearing these > days I believe. > > If the MC and the rod were the problem all along, then I would suspect > overheating and/or wear damage to the throw out bearing and the clutch > pressure plate just like last time. > > I do not see the need for a new slave. > > Mike- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Oh, the T.O. bearing is pre-packed. I knew that, but forgot. Not to sound silly, but the release bearing and the throwout bearing are the same part, right? |
Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH
On Jul 26, 11:34 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Tracie wrote: > >>>> Mike -- > >>>> Is the clutch pedal shaft and linkage the same thing or have anything > >>>> to do with the clutch push rods? I did find a TSB out for my year and > >>>> make jeep for these parts; however, my jeep was not manufactured > >>>> during the 'specified' time frame. Of course, that's not to say they > >>>> didn't miss something or didn't quite fix the problem prior to > >>>> manufacturing mine. > >>> Yes! That 'push rod' and it's sliding switch is the part I think is > >>> bad! Either it is physically bad or the MC it pushes on is physically bad. > >>> If that is the bad part, then for sure it has damaged the new clutch kit. > >>> Mike- Hide quoted text - > >>> - Show quoted text - > >> I thought maybe. THANKS!! > > >> I will keep you updated on exactly what the problem was when I take it > >> in to the dealer for a look-see. I'm sure you're right....from all > >> the posts I have read in the past you usually are. :D- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > OK....just to sum everything up -- if the 'push rods' and its sliding > > switch are bad and/or if the MC is bad, then those parts will need to > > be replaced AND the new parts that were just replaced (clutch > > actuator, hydraulics, release bearing, and clutch/pressure plate kit) > > will ALL need to be replaced again. Just for good measure, the > > throwout bearing should be greased as well. Am I missing anything? > > Do you think the slave cylinder would need to be replaced as well, or > > just the MC? > > The throw out bearing is not greaseable, it is a sealed bearing these > days I believe. > > If the MC and the rod were the problem all along, then I would suspect > overheating and/or wear damage to the throw out bearing and the clutch > pressure plate just like last time. > > I do not see the need for a new slave. > > Mike- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Oh, the T.O. bearing is pre-packed. I knew that, but forgot. Not to sound silly, but the release bearing and the throwout bearing are the same part, right? |
Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH
On Jul 26, 8:46 am, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 11:34 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > > > > > > Tracie wrote: > > >>>> Mike -- > > >>>> Is the clutch pedal shaft and linkage the same thing or have anything > > >>>> to do with the clutch push rods? I did find a TSB out for my year and > > >>>> make jeep for these parts; however, my jeep was not manufactured > > >>>> during the 'specified' time frame. Of course, that's not to say they > > >>>> didn't miss something or didn't quite fix the problem prior to > > >>>> manufacturing mine. > > >>> Yes! That 'push rod' and it's sliding switch is the part I think is > > >>> bad! Either it is physically bad or the MC it pushes on is physically bad. > > >>> If that is the bad part, then for sure it has damaged the new clutch kit. > > >>> Mike- Hide quoted text - > > >>> - Show quoted text - > > >> I thought maybe. THANKS!! > > > >> I will keep you updated on exactly what the problem was when I take it > > >> in to the dealer for a look-see. I'm sure you're right....from all > > >> the posts I have read in the past you usually are. :D- Hide quoted text - > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > OK....just to sum everything up -- if the 'push rods' and its sliding > > > switch are bad and/or if the MC is bad, then those parts will need to > > > be replaced AND the new parts that were just replaced (clutch > > > actuator, hydraulics, release bearing, and clutch/pressure plate kit) > > > will ALL need to be replaced again. Just for good measure, the > > > throwout bearing should be greased as well. Am I missing anything? > > > Do you think the slave cylinder would need to be replaced as well, or > > > just the MC? > > > The throw out bearing is not greaseable, it is a sealed bearing these > > days I believe. > > > If the MC and the rod were the problem all along, then I would suspect > > overheating and/or wear damage to the throw out bearing and the clutch > > pressure plate just like last time. > > > I do not see the need for a new slave. > > > Mike- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Oh, the T.O. bearing is pre-packed. I knew that, but forgot. Not to > sound silly, but the release bearing and the throwout bearing are the > same part, right?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Tracie, Right -- the bearing is pre-packed, the greased surfaces are (1) the sleeve that the bearing slides on, (2) the fork pivot point, and (3) the two points that the fork engages on the release bearing housing (see pic): http://picasaweb.google.com/jongodda...23304790691138 Those points aren't exactly visible, it's on the backside of the housing as pictured beneath the wire retainers. The fork doesn't exactly push square on the bearing througout its travel, and must slide - - hence the croak. This is what your service manager has indicated as the problem. For the sake of example, this is an AX-15 setup [fork straddles the input shaft, pivot at L, slave cylinder pushes from the backside at R]. You can imagine how the fork needs to slide at the bearing as it travels fore and aft. http://picasaweb.google.com/jongodda...44088137436498 Your master/slave cylinders are sold from Chrysler as a set. External slave cylinders that check out just fine aren't usually replaced during a clutch service. The issue very quickly boils down to a noise in the body or in the clutch assembly. This creaking can and does translate through the hydraulics to the feel at the pedal. We'll chalk the rest up to a difference in opinion between us (Mike is well versed in what he does) as well as another chapter in "Armchair Diagnoses". Jon |
Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH
On Jul 26, 8:46 am, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 11:34 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > > > > > > Tracie wrote: > > >>>> Mike -- > > >>>> Is the clutch pedal shaft and linkage the same thing or have anything > > >>>> to do with the clutch push rods? I did find a TSB out for my year and > > >>>> make jeep for these parts; however, my jeep was not manufactured > > >>>> during the 'specified' time frame. Of course, that's not to say they > > >>>> didn't miss something or didn't quite fix the problem prior to > > >>>> manufacturing mine. > > >>> Yes! That 'push rod' and it's sliding switch is the part I think is > > >>> bad! Either it is physically bad or the MC it pushes on is physically bad. > > >>> If that is the bad part, then for sure it has damaged the new clutch kit. > > >>> Mike- Hide quoted text - > > >>> - Show quoted text - > > >> I thought maybe. THANKS!! > > > >> I will keep you updated on exactly what the problem was when I take it > > >> in to the dealer for a look-see. I'm sure you're right....from all > > >> the posts I have read in the past you usually are. :D- Hide quoted text - > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > OK....just to sum everything up -- if the 'push rods' and its sliding > > > switch are bad and/or if the MC is bad, then those parts will need to > > > be replaced AND the new parts that were just replaced (clutch > > > actuator, hydraulics, release bearing, and clutch/pressure plate kit) > > > will ALL need to be replaced again. Just for good measure, the > > > throwout bearing should be greased as well. Am I missing anything? > > > Do you think the slave cylinder would need to be replaced as well, or > > > just the MC? > > > The throw out bearing is not greaseable, it is a sealed bearing these > > days I believe. > > > If the MC and the rod were the problem all along, then I would suspect > > overheating and/or wear damage to the throw out bearing and the clutch > > pressure plate just like last time. > > > I do not see the need for a new slave. > > > Mike- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Oh, the T.O. bearing is pre-packed. I knew that, but forgot. Not to > sound silly, but the release bearing and the throwout bearing are the > same part, right?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Tracie, Right -- the bearing is pre-packed, the greased surfaces are (1) the sleeve that the bearing slides on, (2) the fork pivot point, and (3) the two points that the fork engages on the release bearing housing (see pic): http://picasaweb.google.com/jongodda...23304790691138 Those points aren't exactly visible, it's on the backside of the housing as pictured beneath the wire retainers. The fork doesn't exactly push square on the bearing througout its travel, and must slide - - hence the croak. This is what your service manager has indicated as the problem. For the sake of example, this is an AX-15 setup [fork straddles the input shaft, pivot at L, slave cylinder pushes from the backside at R]. You can imagine how the fork needs to slide at the bearing as it travels fore and aft. http://picasaweb.google.com/jongodda...44088137436498 Your master/slave cylinders are sold from Chrysler as a set. External slave cylinders that check out just fine aren't usually replaced during a clutch service. The issue very quickly boils down to a noise in the body or in the clutch assembly. This creaking can and does translate through the hydraulics to the feel at the pedal. We'll chalk the rest up to a difference in opinion between us (Mike is well versed in what he does) as well as another chapter in "Armchair Diagnoses". Jon |
Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH
On Jul 26, 8:46 am, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 11:34 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > > > > > > Tracie wrote: > > >>>> Mike -- > > >>>> Is the clutch pedal shaft and linkage the same thing or have anything > > >>>> to do with the clutch push rods? I did find a TSB out for my year and > > >>>> make jeep for these parts; however, my jeep was not manufactured > > >>>> during the 'specified' time frame. Of course, that's not to say they > > >>>> didn't miss something or didn't quite fix the problem prior to > > >>>> manufacturing mine. > > >>> Yes! That 'push rod' and it's sliding switch is the part I think is > > >>> bad! Either it is physically bad or the MC it pushes on is physically bad. > > >>> If that is the bad part, then for sure it has damaged the new clutch kit. > > >>> Mike- Hide quoted text - > > >>> - Show quoted text - > > >> I thought maybe. THANKS!! > > > >> I will keep you updated on exactly what the problem was when I take it > > >> in to the dealer for a look-see. I'm sure you're right....from all > > >> the posts I have read in the past you usually are. :D- Hide quoted text - > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > OK....just to sum everything up -- if the 'push rods' and its sliding > > > switch are bad and/or if the MC is bad, then those parts will need to > > > be replaced AND the new parts that were just replaced (clutch > > > actuator, hydraulics, release bearing, and clutch/pressure plate kit) > > > will ALL need to be replaced again. Just for good measure, the > > > throwout bearing should be greased as well. Am I missing anything? > > > Do you think the slave cylinder would need to be replaced as well, or > > > just the MC? > > > The throw out bearing is not greaseable, it is a sealed bearing these > > days I believe. > > > If the MC and the rod were the problem all along, then I would suspect > > overheating and/or wear damage to the throw out bearing and the clutch > > pressure plate just like last time. > > > I do not see the need for a new slave. > > > Mike- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Oh, the T.O. bearing is pre-packed. I knew that, but forgot. Not to > sound silly, but the release bearing and the throwout bearing are the > same part, right?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Tracie, Right -- the bearing is pre-packed, the greased surfaces are (1) the sleeve that the bearing slides on, (2) the fork pivot point, and (3) the two points that the fork engages on the release bearing housing (see pic): http://picasaweb.google.com/jongodda...23304790691138 Those points aren't exactly visible, it's on the backside of the housing as pictured beneath the wire retainers. The fork doesn't exactly push square on the bearing througout its travel, and must slide - - hence the croak. This is what your service manager has indicated as the problem. For the sake of example, this is an AX-15 setup [fork straddles the input shaft, pivot at L, slave cylinder pushes from the backside at R]. You can imagine how the fork needs to slide at the bearing as it travels fore and aft. http://picasaweb.google.com/jongodda...44088137436498 Your master/slave cylinders are sold from Chrysler as a set. External slave cylinders that check out just fine aren't usually replaced during a clutch service. The issue very quickly boils down to a noise in the body or in the clutch assembly. This creaking can and does translate through the hydraulics to the feel at the pedal. We'll chalk the rest up to a difference in opinion between us (Mike is well versed in what he does) as well as another chapter in "Armchair Diagnoses". Jon |
Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH
On Jul 26, 8:46 am, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 11:34 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > > > > > > Tracie wrote: > > >>>> Mike -- > > >>>> Is the clutch pedal shaft and linkage the same thing or have anything > > >>>> to do with the clutch push rods? I did find a TSB out for my year and > > >>>> make jeep for these parts; however, my jeep was not manufactured > > >>>> during the 'specified' time frame. Of course, that's not to say they > > >>>> didn't miss something or didn't quite fix the problem prior to > > >>>> manufacturing mine. > > >>> Yes! That 'push rod' and it's sliding switch is the part I think is > > >>> bad! Either it is physically bad or the MC it pushes on is physically bad. > > >>> If that is the bad part, then for sure it has damaged the new clutch kit. > > >>> Mike- Hide quoted text - > > >>> - Show quoted text - > > >> I thought maybe. THANKS!! > > > >> I will keep you updated on exactly what the problem was when I take it > > >> in to the dealer for a look-see. I'm sure you're right....from all > > >> the posts I have read in the past you usually are. :D- Hide quoted text - > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > OK....just to sum everything up -- if the 'push rods' and its sliding > > > switch are bad and/or if the MC is bad, then those parts will need to > > > be replaced AND the new parts that were just replaced (clutch > > > actuator, hydraulics, release bearing, and clutch/pressure plate kit) > > > will ALL need to be replaced again. Just for good measure, the > > > throwout bearing should be greased as well. Am I missing anything? > > > Do you think the slave cylinder would need to be replaced as well, or > > > just the MC? > > > The throw out bearing is not greaseable, it is a sealed bearing these > > days I believe. > > > If the MC and the rod were the problem all along, then I would suspect > > overheating and/or wear damage to the throw out bearing and the clutch > > pressure plate just like last time. > > > I do not see the need for a new slave. > > > Mike- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Oh, the T.O. bearing is pre-packed. I knew that, but forgot. Not to > sound silly, but the release bearing and the throwout bearing are the > same part, right?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Tracie, Right -- the bearing is pre-packed, the greased surfaces are (1) the sleeve that the bearing slides on, (2) the fork pivot point, and (3) the two points that the fork engages on the release bearing housing (see pic): http://picasaweb.google.com/jongodda...23304790691138 Those points aren't exactly visible, it's on the backside of the housing as pictured beneath the wire retainers. The fork doesn't exactly push square on the bearing througout its travel, and must slide - - hence the croak. This is what your service manager has indicated as the problem. For the sake of example, this is an AX-15 setup [fork straddles the input shaft, pivot at L, slave cylinder pushes from the backside at R]. You can imagine how the fork needs to slide at the bearing as it travels fore and aft. http://picasaweb.google.com/jongodda...44088137436498 Your master/slave cylinders are sold from Chrysler as a set. External slave cylinders that check out just fine aren't usually replaced during a clutch service. The issue very quickly boils down to a noise in the body or in the clutch assembly. This creaking can and does translate through the hydraulics to the feel at the pedal. We'll chalk the rest up to a difference in opinion between us (Mike is well versed in what he does) as well as another chapter in "Armchair Diagnoses". Jon |
Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH
Tracie wrote:
>> >> Mike- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Oh, the T.O. bearing is pre-packed. I knew that, but forgot. Not to > sound silly, but the release bearing and the throwout bearing are the > same part, right? > You are right. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) |
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