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Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH

On Jul 25, 12:56 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> On Jul 25, 12:07 pm, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 25, 11:26 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > > Tracie wrote:
> > > > On Jul 24, 2:08 pm, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > > >> Tracie wrote:
> > > >>> On Jul 24, 10:50 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > > >>>> The man at the dealership I spoke
> > > >>>>> with did not know if this kit included the master/slave cylinder, but
> > > >>>>> he was going to check into it and would know tomorrow afternoon.
> > > >>>>> THANKS
> > > >>>> That is likely the 'whole' problem....
> > > >>>> A bad master keeping pressure on the pressure plate causing that to
> > > >>>> overheat and smoke out. The MC Jam is now finally making noise at the
> > > >>>> 'source' of the troubles, not the symptoms.
> > > >>>> Mike
> > > >>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > >>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> > > >>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > >>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> > > >>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > >>> Will this bad master cylinder now cause the new clutch kit and parts
> > > >>> to need to be replaced yet again?
> > > >> If that is the 'source' of the issues, for sure.
>
> > > >> TJ's have had issues with the pedal shaft and it's linkage and the
> > > >> strange new style of interlock switch, (clutch must be down for starter)
> > > >> already in the past. If that safety switch was jamming, it could hold
> > > >> the MC 'on' which can cause your burned up clutch troubles and noise.
> > > >> Or the MC could be just bad...
>
> > > >> Mike- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > THANKS for the information. I have now found out (according to the
> > > > Sevice Dept manager) that the 'noise' I am hearing is somehow due to
> > > > the clutch fork (plate?) fingers. This is all foreign to me.....could
> > > > you explain what he is talking about?
>
> > > > THANKS AGAIN
>
> > > If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, then baffle 'em with --------...??
>
> > > Could you please explain in detail 'where' you hear the noise and where
> > > the 'rub' feels like it is when the engine is off and you depress the
> > > clutch pedal? A second person listening might help.
>
> > > I can't really see a 'rubbing' feeling be transferred via a back feed in
> > > the hydraulic system 'from' the clutch fork all the way to the pedal so
> > > your foot feels it.
>
> > > Mike- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Sure....here goes. The noise is heard whether or not the engine is
> > running. The noise nor the rubbing doesn't happen when starting up
> > for the first time during the day -- only after being driven for
> > approx. 30-45 min. With the engine running, when I push the clutch in
> > slowly (but not real s-l-o-w) I hear the noise when the pedal is about
> > 2/3 of the way to the floor and the noise continues until the pedal is
> > in all the way. It will make that 'croaking' sound every time (kinda
> > like a spring on a screen door that has been stretched too far). Once
> > in a while, I can also hear and feel the 'rubbing' noise in addition
> > to the 'croaking' when the pedal gets just about to the floor. It
> > almost has the feel of two pieces of rubber rubbing together (that
> > 'resistance' sound). When the engine is off, I get the same exact
> > thing ('croaking' and all) except that the 'rubbing' occurs every time
> > I push the clutch in (vs. once in a while with the engine running).
>
> > Now, here is a new wrinkle that I noticed last night after I had
> > written these posts. When shifting from 2nd to 3rd last night (with
> > the clutch in), I heard a faint grinding sound (almost like taking a
> > wood plane and trying to shave a piece of metal with it). This just
> > started, but I have a feeling it is related to this whole problem.
>
> > Another thing that has been occurring that I think has something to do
> > with this whole situation is once in a while when taking off from a
> > standstill, I will hear a single 'popping' noise from the front of the
> > jeep. This happens when I start the vehicle (with the clutch pushed
> > in of course) then I let the clutch out slowly to take off. Well,
> > when the clutch is on the way back out (about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way
> > back out) I will hear this 'popping' noise. It is not a series of
> > 'pops', just one single 'pop'. I have also taken the jeep to the
> > dealership about this 'popping' to have everything from the sway bar,
> > ball joints, u-joints, suspension components, etc. checked out, but
> > nothing has been found. Of course, when I take the car to the
> > dealership, I cannot duplicate the sound for them. But the last time
> > I was at the dealership, I'll be damned that after I started her up
> > and started to take off, she made that 'popping' noise. I hadn't even
> > gotten 2 feet! Man, was I pissed.
>
> > Anyhoo, that is the best that I can describe this stuff for you. I
> > sure hope you can get the feel of what is going on by my description.
> > I really do appreciate you taking the time to try to help me out.
> > THANKS!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> UPDATE: I have discovered that the master/slave cylinders were NOT
> included in the clutch kit; hence they were not replaced.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Tracie,

I can't find a pic of an '06 slave cylinder, and I don't have an '06,
but let's proceed with the service manager's suggestion of the clutch
fork. Imagine a tuning fork -- the forked end straddles the
transmission input shaft, and the solid end protrudes from the side of
the clutch enclosure (bellhousing). An external slave cylinder, when
activated, pushes on the solid end, pivoting the fork about midway so
that it, through a bearing, applies pressure so as to release the
clutch. That's a tough idea to get one's head around, but it's a
general description.

I'll put money on the notion that the creaking sound is coming from
the aformentioned "midway" pivot point on the fork, though
occasionally it can be felt from the split end of the forks or on the
bearing (throwout bearing) it slides fore and aft to release/apply the
clutch. These are all points that must receive a small amount of
specific lubricant in order to make the 100/150k before a transmission
gets pulled -- something's dry as a bone, and you can't get to it
without tearing it apart.

The noise, while able to be felt from the inside, should be very
audible to your or your helper's ear from underneath the Wrangler.
Heat and vibration will often lessen or eliminate the noise -- but
it's good (for the sake of diagnostics) that you can make it happen
with the engine off.

Chances of the slave cylinder on your '06 binding up through ?a bad
boot and corrosion? and causing this noise is slim, real slim. They
would have swapped it out right quick if only to get you out of their
hair, and on Chrysler's dime.

It's not a fatal flaw just yet, but it should have been done right the
first time. Hope this helps to visualize the problem.

Jon

Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH

>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> UPDATE: I have discovered that the master/slave cylinders were NOT
> included in the clutch kit; hence they were not replaced.
>

That fits with the symptoms.

Your noise description still points to the pedal shaft on the MC binding
up. The popping can even be the 'jam' letting go and releasing the shaft.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH

On Jul 25, 7:16 pm, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > UPDATE: I have discovered that the master/slave cylinders were NOT
> > included in the clutch kit; hence they were not replaced.
>
> That fits with the symptoms.
>
> Your noise description still points to the pedal shaft on the MC binding
> up. The popping can even be the 'jam' letting go and releasing the shaft.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

THANKS for all of the helpful information. So, if I am understanding
everything correctly, the master cylinder AND slave cylinder needs to
be replaced and the throwout bearing needs to be lubed. Now, what
about the parts that they have just been replaced? (clutch actuator,
release bearing, hydraulics, and clutch kit) Do they all need to be
replaced again as well? Am I missing anything else that needs to be
replaced or should at least be looked at? I just want to know so that
I know what to tell the dealer when I take it back in for service.

Re: BULLFROG CLUTCH