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Re: Viscous cabin heater and it's clutch
Earle, try clicking on the image thumbnails of the OP's link, it should
bring the images up to readable size. I've never heard of a viscous heater, but the page does describe it. Kind of a neat idea, it creates heat by causing friction in silicone fluid inside the V.H. pump. The coolant is piped through the pump and then into the heater core, which provides quicker heat to the cabin than would be from getting the engine to operating temperature. I would guess the viscous heater clutch is similar to an A/C compressor clutch. "Earle Horton" <el_anglo_burgues@usa.com> wrote in message news:4670033d$0$16279$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. . > This post is incoherent to the point of surrealism. > > Unless you use a 120 volt overnight block heater, there is no such thing > as > "instant" heat, and there is no "viscous heater". > > Saludos cordiales, > > Earle > > "stilllearning" <shahswim@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1181746281.704135.6060@q19g2000prn.googlegrou ps.com... >> Where exactly is the viscous heater clutch located? Is it part of the >> A/C clutch? >> >> Where exactly is the viscous heater? >> >> Trying to understand passenger cabin heating: >> >> Normally the coolant heats the cabin, but that happens only after the >> coolant heats up (maybe a few minutes after a engine start) and the >> thermostat opens up to send fluid to the radiator. >> >> The viscous heater heats the cabin immediately after engine start and >> until the coolant is hot. >> >> Why then, in cold weather, if the heater knob is set to high, the >> cabin is heated only after a few minutes? Shouldn't the viscous heater >> heat the cabin immediately? >> > > > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > |
Re: Viscous cabin heater and it's clutch
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:51:21 -0700, stilllearning <shahswim@yahoo.com>
wrote: >Where exactly is the viscous heater clutch located? Is it part of the >A/C clutch? > >Where exactly is the viscous heater? > >Trying to understand passenger cabin heating: > >Normally the coolant heats the cabin, but that happens only after the >coolant heats up (maybe a few minutes after a engine start) and the >thermostat opens up to send fluid to the radiator. > >The viscous heater heats the cabin immediately after engine start and >until the coolant is hot. > >Why then, in cold weather, if the heater knob is set to high, the >cabin is heated only after a few minutes? Shouldn't the viscous heater >heat the cabin immediately? Denso produces the viscous heater used on the VM Diesel that Chrysler installs in KJ's. The operating principle is the same as a viscous fan drive but instead of dumping slip heat to the airstream via the fins on the outside of the fan drive, it transfers this heat to the engine coolant. A clutch much like used on an AC compressor is used to switch the heater on and off. The power consumption is in the range of a few horsepower (3-5 ?) depending on engine RPM. They use these on high efficiency diesel engines (CRD) which don't warm up very fast in cold weather. These efficient engines will also fail to maintain coolant temperature in low speed driving and while idling - leading to complaints that the heater isn't working correctly. So they switch the viscous heater on in these conditions too. This is a less expensive solution than using a PTC (positive temperature coefficient) electric heater in the HVAC. PTC heaters are in the 1kW to 1.5kW range so at 12 - 14 VDC they're pulling a hell of a lot of amperes and the alternators, batteries and of course the wiring are all upgraded. PTC heaters warm the air immediately because they are directly in the air stream in the HVAC. Viscous heaters are slower because a portion of the heat is lost in the block and head. Even so they are a big improvement over no supplemental heating. In Europe they also use fuel fired heaters (Webasto is a well known name) but these are real expensive and add a lot of complexity. reboot --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000748-5, 06/13/2007 Tested on: 6/13/2007 10:29:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Re: Viscous cabin heater and it's clutch
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:51:21 -0700, stilllearning <shahswim@yahoo.com>
wrote: >Where exactly is the viscous heater clutch located? Is it part of the >A/C clutch? > >Where exactly is the viscous heater? > >Trying to understand passenger cabin heating: > >Normally the coolant heats the cabin, but that happens only after the >coolant heats up (maybe a few minutes after a engine start) and the >thermostat opens up to send fluid to the radiator. > >The viscous heater heats the cabin immediately after engine start and >until the coolant is hot. > >Why then, in cold weather, if the heater knob is set to high, the >cabin is heated only after a few minutes? Shouldn't the viscous heater >heat the cabin immediately? Denso produces the viscous heater used on the VM Diesel that Chrysler installs in KJ's. The operating principle is the same as a viscous fan drive but instead of dumping slip heat to the airstream via the fins on the outside of the fan drive, it transfers this heat to the engine coolant. A clutch much like used on an AC compressor is used to switch the heater on and off. The power consumption is in the range of a few horsepower (3-5 ?) depending on engine RPM. They use these on high efficiency diesel engines (CRD) which don't warm up very fast in cold weather. These efficient engines will also fail to maintain coolant temperature in low speed driving and while idling - leading to complaints that the heater isn't working correctly. So they switch the viscous heater on in these conditions too. This is a less expensive solution than using a PTC (positive temperature coefficient) electric heater in the HVAC. PTC heaters are in the 1kW to 1.5kW range so at 12 - 14 VDC they're pulling a hell of a lot of amperes and the alternators, batteries and of course the wiring are all upgraded. PTC heaters warm the air immediately because they are directly in the air stream in the HVAC. Viscous heaters are slower because a portion of the heat is lost in the block and head. Even so they are a big improvement over no supplemental heating. In Europe they also use fuel fired heaters (Webasto is a well known name) but these are real expensive and add a lot of complexity. reboot --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000748-5, 06/13/2007 Tested on: 6/13/2007 10:29:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Re: Viscous cabin heater and it's clutch
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:51:21 -0700, stilllearning <shahswim@yahoo.com>
wrote: >Where exactly is the viscous heater clutch located? Is it part of the >A/C clutch? > >Where exactly is the viscous heater? > >Trying to understand passenger cabin heating: > >Normally the coolant heats the cabin, but that happens only after the >coolant heats up (maybe a few minutes after a engine start) and the >thermostat opens up to send fluid to the radiator. > >The viscous heater heats the cabin immediately after engine start and >until the coolant is hot. > >Why then, in cold weather, if the heater knob is set to high, the >cabin is heated only after a few minutes? Shouldn't the viscous heater >heat the cabin immediately? Denso produces the viscous heater used on the VM Diesel that Chrysler installs in KJ's. The operating principle is the same as a viscous fan drive but instead of dumping slip heat to the airstream via the fins on the outside of the fan drive, it transfers this heat to the engine coolant. A clutch much like used on an AC compressor is used to switch the heater on and off. The power consumption is in the range of a few horsepower (3-5 ?) depending on engine RPM. They use these on high efficiency diesel engines (CRD) which don't warm up very fast in cold weather. These efficient engines will also fail to maintain coolant temperature in low speed driving and while idling - leading to complaints that the heater isn't working correctly. So they switch the viscous heater on in these conditions too. This is a less expensive solution than using a PTC (positive temperature coefficient) electric heater in the HVAC. PTC heaters are in the 1kW to 1.5kW range so at 12 - 14 VDC they're pulling a hell of a lot of amperes and the alternators, batteries and of course the wiring are all upgraded. PTC heaters warm the air immediately because they are directly in the air stream in the HVAC. Viscous heaters are slower because a portion of the heat is lost in the block and head. Even so they are a big improvement over no supplemental heating. In Europe they also use fuel fired heaters (Webasto is a well known name) but these are real expensive and add a lot of complexity. reboot --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000748-5, 06/13/2007 Tested on: 6/13/2007 10:29:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Re: Viscous cabin heater and it's clutch
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 07:51:21 -0700, stilllearning <shahswim@yahoo.com>
wrote: >Where exactly is the viscous heater clutch located? Is it part of the >A/C clutch? > >Where exactly is the viscous heater? > >Trying to understand passenger cabin heating: > >Normally the coolant heats the cabin, but that happens only after the >coolant heats up (maybe a few minutes after a engine start) and the >thermostat opens up to send fluid to the radiator. > >The viscous heater heats the cabin immediately after engine start and >until the coolant is hot. > >Why then, in cold weather, if the heater knob is set to high, the >cabin is heated only after a few minutes? Shouldn't the viscous heater >heat the cabin immediately? Denso produces the viscous heater used on the VM Diesel that Chrysler installs in KJ's. The operating principle is the same as a viscous fan drive but instead of dumping slip heat to the airstream via the fins on the outside of the fan drive, it transfers this heat to the engine coolant. A clutch much like used on an AC compressor is used to switch the heater on and off. The power consumption is in the range of a few horsepower (3-5 ?) depending on engine RPM. They use these on high efficiency diesel engines (CRD) which don't warm up very fast in cold weather. These efficient engines will also fail to maintain coolant temperature in low speed driving and while idling - leading to complaints that the heater isn't working correctly. So they switch the viscous heater on in these conditions too. This is a less expensive solution than using a PTC (positive temperature coefficient) electric heater in the HVAC. PTC heaters are in the 1kW to 1.5kW range so at 12 - 14 VDC they're pulling a hell of a lot of amperes and the alternators, batteries and of course the wiring are all upgraded. PTC heaters warm the air immediately because they are directly in the air stream in the HVAC. Viscous heaters are slower because a portion of the heat is lost in the block and head. Even so they are a big improvement over no supplemental heating. In Europe they also use fuel fired heaters (Webasto is a well known name) but these are real expensive and add a lot of complexity. reboot --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000748-5, 06/13/2007 Tested on: 6/13/2007 10:29:35 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Re: Re: Viscous cabin heater and it's clutch, Now SnoMan the stalker.
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:33:58 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote: >Once again you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and >are too stunned to realize it. > >Stalking me only proves you are a total idiot! As usual, the "troll" is insecure and attacks what he does not understand in a attempt to make him feel better about his own lack of knowledge and understanding. I do not come to NG's to stalk anyone and if it seems I am stalking you it is because you are basically one of the biggest BS'ers out there and post a lot of tripe too leaving yourself wide open when you post things that are not correct. Some people (not trolls like your self) come to NG's for info while you come for ego. Maybe if you controled your ego and posted less BS you would find that less of what you posted would be challanged. BTW, if I really wanted to stalk you, it would take far more time than I care to spent in NG's because you seem to post a lot of tripe and I would not waste my time trying to read and respond to it all. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Viscous cabin heater and it's clutch, Now SnoMan the stalker.
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:33:58 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote: >Once again you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and >are too stunned to realize it. > >Stalking me only proves you are a total idiot! As usual, the "troll" is insecure and attacks what he does not understand in a attempt to make him feel better about his own lack of knowledge and understanding. I do not come to NG's to stalk anyone and if it seems I am stalking you it is because you are basically one of the biggest BS'ers out there and post a lot of tripe too leaving yourself wide open when you post things that are not correct. Some people (not trolls like your self) come to NG's for info while you come for ego. Maybe if you controled your ego and posted less BS you would find that less of what you posted would be challanged. BTW, if I really wanted to stalk you, it would take far more time than I care to spent in NG's because you seem to post a lot of tripe and I would not waste my time trying to read and respond to it all. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Viscous cabin heater and it's clutch, Now SnoMan the stalker.
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:33:58 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote: >Once again you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and >are too stunned to realize it. > >Stalking me only proves you are a total idiot! As usual, the "troll" is insecure and attacks what he does not understand in a attempt to make him feel better about his own lack of knowledge and understanding. I do not come to NG's to stalk anyone and if it seems I am stalking you it is because you are basically one of the biggest BS'ers out there and post a lot of tripe too leaving yourself wide open when you post things that are not correct. Some people (not trolls like your self) come to NG's for info while you come for ego. Maybe if you controled your ego and posted less BS you would find that less of what you posted would be challanged. BTW, if I really wanted to stalk you, it would take far more time than I care to spent in NG's because you seem to post a lot of tripe and I would not waste my time trying to read and respond to it all. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Viscous cabin heater and it's clutch, Now SnoMan the stalker.
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:33:58 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote: >Once again you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and >are too stunned to realize it. > >Stalking me only proves you are a total idiot! As usual, the "troll" is insecure and attacks what he does not understand in a attempt to make him feel better about his own lack of knowledge and understanding. I do not come to NG's to stalk anyone and if it seems I am stalking you it is because you are basically one of the biggest BS'ers out there and post a lot of tripe too leaving yourself wide open when you post things that are not correct. Some people (not trolls like your self) come to NG's for info while you come for ego. Maybe if you controled your ego and posted less BS you would find that less of what you posted would be challanged. BTW, if I really wanted to stalk you, it would take far more time than I care to spent in NG's because you seem to post a lot of tripe and I would not waste my time trying to read and respond to it all. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |
Re: Re: Viscous cabin heater and it's clutch, Now SnoMan the stalker.
"SnoMan" <admin@snoman.com> wrote in message news:0582739nt06pa72uggn2henvf8gthi8ppv@4ax.com... > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:33:58 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> > wrote: > >>Once again you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and >>are too stunned to realize it. >> >>Stalking me only proves you are a total idiot! > At aadt we refer to him as the "Idiot" > As usual, the "troll" is insecure and attacks what he does not > understand in a attempt to make him feel better about his own lack of > knowledge and understanding. Thus your most recent post. > > I do not come to NG's to stalk anyone and if it seems I am stalking > you it is because you are basically one of the biggest BS'ers out > there and post a lot of tripe too leaving yourself wide open when you > post things that are not correct. Well Idiot, you have described yourself and your actions. >Some people (not trolls like your > self) come to NG's for info Hopefully those looking for info will not look to most of the BS you post. >while you come for ego. Maybe if you > controled your ego and posted less BS you would find that less of what > you posted would be challanged. That is what folks at numerous groups and forums have been trying to get you to do, STFU > > BTW, if I really wanted to stalk you, it would take far more time than > I care to spent in NG's because you seem to post a lot of tripe and I > would not waste my time trying to read and respond to it all. Hell, why don't YOU respond to the wrong and at time's dangerous stuff you have posted in various groups over the past year or so? Let me adjust that sig again for ya. > ----------------- > TheWrongAnswerMan.com |
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