Sidebar-USS Arizona Preservation Project
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Sidebar-USS Arizona Preservation Project
I vote for taking this sort of discussion somewhere else. My news server
has a pile of politics, philosophy, and rant news groups, for example.
Earle
"Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127526335.430105.159950@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> >>On December 7, 1941 the United States of America became directly
> involved in the greatest of human conflicts, World War II. Even before
> bombs fell on Pearl Harbor that Sunday morning, it was clear to many
> Americans that they would soon be at war with Japan. What was
> unexpected was the seemingly apocalyptic nature of the raid. Emblazoned
> on the minds of millions of Americans, the single most powerful image
> associated with the Pearl Harbor attack, was the smoking metal and
> twisted mast of USS Arizona.
>
> In 1983, the Submerged Resources Center of the National Park Service
> was tasked with mapping and photo-documenting the remains of USS
> Arizona in its final resting place in Pearl Harbor. The National Park
> Service was responsible for managing a major national shrine that was
> largely hidden from view and for which no management precedent existed.
> During and after the war, Navy salvage teams had cut away most of the
> ship's superstructure. Eventually a memorial was built over the
> sunken ship's hull, which is a grave for nearly 1,000 U.S.
> servicemen.
>
> To effectively manage the memorial, the National Park Service needed to
> answer a variety of questions, beginning with "what's there,
> beneath the waters of Pearl Harbor?" To answer that, several field
> seasons in the 1980s were devoted to producing a comprehensive line
> drawing of the 608-foot battleship - the largest object ever mapped
> underwater at the time.
>
> After developing a basic understanding of what was there, the next set
> of questions focused on answering the question, what's happening to
> what's there? What sort of hull integrity remains? Is the ship in
> imminent danger of collapse? Where is the oil coming from that leaks so
> conspicuously from the ship? Research designed to answer those
> questions began in the late 1980s, and have continued in recent years.
> For the past two decades the Submerged Resources Center has been
> spearheading the National Park Service's research on one of Americas
> most hallowed war memorials.<<
>
> I have news for the Park Service, it's salt water and steel does not
> survive salt water. It's a grave. Nature attacks bodies, returns them
> to the biosphere by deacay and eating by worms. (That's how it's
> supposed to work. People buy steel coffins and concrete vaults and it's
> contrary to nature.) Either refloat the hull and BURY the bodies or let
> nature do its job and attack the hull, what biomass is left (very
> little) and all and reduce it to the seafloor. In other words, it's a
> ----in' boondoggle.
>
> The attack at Pearl Harbor was a tragedy, but it's history. Number one
> we immolated the Japanese tenfold, a hundredfold, and more, and the
> debt is paid. Number two, FDR the son of a low -----,(but not as bad as
> 'Bar',La Cuntessa Suprema) who some patriotic American should have <>
> in his wheelchair, put Japan in the position where it had little other
> choice. Imperial Japan was a brutal society but they were no threat to
> us. Number three, we don't learn from history very well, do we? No, we
> don't.
>
> So I guess we are going to have to learn the same thing again. It would
> be better if we did not have to repeat the senseless loss, like the men
> on USS Arizona.
>
> I say we change our way of thinking.
>
has a pile of politics, philosophy, and rant news groups, for example.
Earle
"Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127526335.430105.159950@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> >>On December 7, 1941 the United States of America became directly
> involved in the greatest of human conflicts, World War II. Even before
> bombs fell on Pearl Harbor that Sunday morning, it was clear to many
> Americans that they would soon be at war with Japan. What was
> unexpected was the seemingly apocalyptic nature of the raid. Emblazoned
> on the minds of millions of Americans, the single most powerful image
> associated with the Pearl Harbor attack, was the smoking metal and
> twisted mast of USS Arizona.
>
> In 1983, the Submerged Resources Center of the National Park Service
> was tasked with mapping and photo-documenting the remains of USS
> Arizona in its final resting place in Pearl Harbor. The National Park
> Service was responsible for managing a major national shrine that was
> largely hidden from view and for which no management precedent existed.
> During and after the war, Navy salvage teams had cut away most of the
> ship's superstructure. Eventually a memorial was built over the
> sunken ship's hull, which is a grave for nearly 1,000 U.S.
> servicemen.
>
> To effectively manage the memorial, the National Park Service needed to
> answer a variety of questions, beginning with "what's there,
> beneath the waters of Pearl Harbor?" To answer that, several field
> seasons in the 1980s were devoted to producing a comprehensive line
> drawing of the 608-foot battleship - the largest object ever mapped
> underwater at the time.
>
> After developing a basic understanding of what was there, the next set
> of questions focused on answering the question, what's happening to
> what's there? What sort of hull integrity remains? Is the ship in
> imminent danger of collapse? Where is the oil coming from that leaks so
> conspicuously from the ship? Research designed to answer those
> questions began in the late 1980s, and have continued in recent years.
> For the past two decades the Submerged Resources Center has been
> spearheading the National Park Service's research on one of Americas
> most hallowed war memorials.<<
>
> I have news for the Park Service, it's salt water and steel does not
> survive salt water. It's a grave. Nature attacks bodies, returns them
> to the biosphere by deacay and eating by worms. (That's how it's
> supposed to work. People buy steel coffins and concrete vaults and it's
> contrary to nature.) Either refloat the hull and BURY the bodies or let
> nature do its job and attack the hull, what biomass is left (very
> little) and all and reduce it to the seafloor. In other words, it's a
> ----in' boondoggle.
>
> The attack at Pearl Harbor was a tragedy, but it's history. Number one
> we immolated the Japanese tenfold, a hundredfold, and more, and the
> debt is paid. Number two, FDR the son of a low -----,(but not as bad as
> 'Bar',La Cuntessa Suprema) who some patriotic American should have <>
> in his wheelchair, put Japan in the position where it had little other
> choice. Imperial Japan was a brutal society but they were no threat to
> us. Number three, we don't learn from history very well, do we? No, we
> don't.
>
> So I guess we are going to have to learn the same thing again. It would
> be better if we did not have to repeat the senseless loss, like the men
> on USS Arizona.
>
> I say we change our way of thinking.
>
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Off Topic Re: Sidebar-USS Arizona Preservation Project
Someone forgot to order the hats and tassels?
http://www.----------.com/temp/NKU2005Graduation.jpg Who's the Graduate
*** Louda?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Billy Ray wrote:
>
> Bill, I am going to send you a pix from NKU's 2005 Graduation. Can you see
> what is wrong?
>
> --
> .
> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
http://www.----------.com/temp/NKU2005Graduation.jpg Who's the Graduate
*** Louda?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Billy Ray wrote:
>
> Bill, I am going to send you a pix from NKU's 2005 Graduation. Can you see
> what is wrong?
>
> --
> .
> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Off Topic Re: Sidebar-USS Arizona Preservation Project
Someone forgot to order the hats and tassels?
http://www.----------.com/temp/NKU2005Graduation.jpg Who's the Graduate
*** Louda?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Billy Ray wrote:
>
> Bill, I am going to send you a pix from NKU's 2005 Graduation. Can you see
> what is wrong?
>
> --
> .
> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
http://www.----------.com/temp/NKU2005Graduation.jpg Who's the Graduate
*** Louda?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Billy Ray wrote:
>
> Bill, I am going to send you a pix from NKU's 2005 Graduation. Can you see
> what is wrong?
>
> --
> .
> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Off Topic Re: Sidebar-USS Arizona Preservation Project
Someone forgot to order the hats and tassels?
http://www.----------.com/temp/NKU2005Graduation.jpg Who's the Graduate
*** Louda?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Billy Ray wrote:
>
> Bill, I am going to send you a pix from NKU's 2005 Graduation. Can you see
> what is wrong?
>
> --
> .
> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
http://www.----------.com/temp/NKU2005Graduation.jpg Who's the Graduate
*** Louda?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Billy Ray wrote:
>
> Bill, I am going to send you a pix from NKU's 2005 Graduation. Can you see
> what is wrong?
>
> --
> .
> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Off Topic Re: Sidebar-USS Arizona Preservation Project
The US flag is mounted on a pole that is slightly higher but it is displayed
to the RIGHT of the state flag and was dipped during the procession. Had
this state college not had a sizable ROTC contingent, seated in the rear of
the auditorium, I might have attributed it to liberal arts ignorance.
But, as mentioned, they had ROTC in which all the cadets and certainly the
commander knew the flag protocol. (Or should have)
Of course, I realize that in 1989 the Supremes said you can do whatever you
want with our flag so I guess I shouldn't complain. At least it was
displayed.
--
..
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4335B817.FE83C3F1@***.net...
> Someone forgot to order the hats and tassels?
> http://www.----------.com/temp/NKU2005Graduation.jpg Who's the Graduate
> *** Louda?
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Billy Ray wrote:
>>
>> Bill, I am going to send you a pix from NKU's 2005 Graduation. Can you
>> see
>> what is wrong?
>>
>> --
>> .
>> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
>> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
>> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
to the RIGHT of the state flag and was dipped during the procession. Had
this state college not had a sizable ROTC contingent, seated in the rear of
the auditorium, I might have attributed it to liberal arts ignorance.
But, as mentioned, they had ROTC in which all the cadets and certainly the
commander knew the flag protocol. (Or should have)
Of course, I realize that in 1989 the Supremes said you can do whatever you
want with our flag so I guess I shouldn't complain. At least it was
displayed.
--
..
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4335B817.FE83C3F1@***.net...
> Someone forgot to order the hats and tassels?
> http://www.----------.com/temp/NKU2005Graduation.jpg Who's the Graduate
> *** Louda?
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Billy Ray wrote:
>>
>> Bill, I am going to send you a pix from NKU's 2005 Graduation. Can you
>> see
>> what is wrong?
>>
>> --
>> .
>> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
>> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
>> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Off Topic Re: Sidebar-USS Arizona Preservation Project
The US flag is mounted on a pole that is slightly higher but it is displayed
to the RIGHT of the state flag and was dipped during the procession. Had
this state college not had a sizable ROTC contingent, seated in the rear of
the auditorium, I might have attributed it to liberal arts ignorance.
But, as mentioned, they had ROTC in which all the cadets and certainly the
commander knew the flag protocol. (Or should have)
Of course, I realize that in 1989 the Supremes said you can do whatever you
want with our flag so I guess I shouldn't complain. At least it was
displayed.
--
..
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4335B817.FE83C3F1@***.net...
> Someone forgot to order the hats and tassels?
> http://www.----------.com/temp/NKU2005Graduation.jpg Who's the Graduate
> *** Louda?
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Billy Ray wrote:
>>
>> Bill, I am going to send you a pix from NKU's 2005 Graduation. Can you
>> see
>> what is wrong?
>>
>> --
>> .
>> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
>> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
>> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
to the RIGHT of the state flag and was dipped during the procession. Had
this state college not had a sizable ROTC contingent, seated in the rear of
the auditorium, I might have attributed it to liberal arts ignorance.
But, as mentioned, they had ROTC in which all the cadets and certainly the
commander knew the flag protocol. (Or should have)
Of course, I realize that in 1989 the Supremes said you can do whatever you
want with our flag so I guess I shouldn't complain. At least it was
displayed.
--
..
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4335B817.FE83C3F1@***.net...
> Someone forgot to order the hats and tassels?
> http://www.----------.com/temp/NKU2005Graduation.jpg Who's the Graduate
> *** Louda?
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Billy Ray wrote:
>>
>> Bill, I am going to send you a pix from NKU's 2005 Graduation. Can you
>> see
>> what is wrong?
>>
>> --
>> .
>> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
>> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
>> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Off Topic Re: Sidebar-USS Arizona Preservation Project
The US flag is mounted on a pole that is slightly higher but it is displayed
to the RIGHT of the state flag and was dipped during the procession. Had
this state college not had a sizable ROTC contingent, seated in the rear of
the auditorium, I might have attributed it to liberal arts ignorance.
But, as mentioned, they had ROTC in which all the cadets and certainly the
commander knew the flag protocol. (Or should have)
Of course, I realize that in 1989 the Supremes said you can do whatever you
want with our flag so I guess I shouldn't complain. At least it was
displayed.
--
..
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4335B817.FE83C3F1@***.net...
> Someone forgot to order the hats and tassels?
> http://www.----------.com/temp/NKU2005Graduation.jpg Who's the Graduate
> *** Louda?
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Billy Ray wrote:
>>
>> Bill, I am going to send you a pix from NKU's 2005 Graduation. Can you
>> see
>> what is wrong?
>>
>> --
>> .
>> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
>> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
>> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
to the RIGHT of the state flag and was dipped during the procession. Had
this state college not had a sizable ROTC contingent, seated in the rear of
the auditorium, I might have attributed it to liberal arts ignorance.
But, as mentioned, they had ROTC in which all the cadets and certainly the
commander knew the flag protocol. (Or should have)
Of course, I realize that in 1989 the Supremes said you can do whatever you
want with our flag so I guess I shouldn't complain. At least it was
displayed.
--
..
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:4335B817.FE83C3F1@***.net...
> Someone forgot to order the hats and tassels?
> http://www.----------.com/temp/NKU2005Graduation.jpg Who's the Graduate
> *** Louda?
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> Billy Ray wrote:
>>
>> Bill, I am going to send you a pix from NKU's 2005 Graduation. Can you
>> see
>> what is wrong?
>>
>> --
>> .
>> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
>> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
>> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Sidebar-USS Arizona Preservation Project
Tom Greening wrote:
> "SoK66" <Nospam@SoK.net> wrote in message
> news:dh2ca601hbg@enews2.newsguy.com...
> > Uh, Bret, the US "put Japan in the position...." because they had by 1941
> > murdered about 10 million Chinese in a genocidal spree that shocked even
> the
> > Germans. I'd further suggest that by killing over 2000 sailors, soldiers
> > and Marines, plus unknown number of US civilans on Dec. 7th, they proved
> > themselves to be quite a threat to the United States. They got what they
> had
> > coming. (Someday they'll maybe even appologize to the Chinese.)
> >
>
>
> As if China, before and since, has been a bastion of human rights. To say
> the attack at Pearl Harbor was unfortunate is an understatement, but to
> label it some action of evil is asinine. If WE had been the ones to do the
> attacking do you think we would have announced it? Of course not. It's
> what any military planner strives for, the element of surprise. It was a
> military action, nothing more and nothing less and they handed our hat to
> us.
>
> Did the Japanese get what they had coming? The military most certainly so,
> since they were the ones running the show and lying to the population, but
> John Q. Public pretty much got the shaft at both ends.
Is that ever the truth. It's the noncombatants who suffer-and the
military men loyal to their country but not necessarily the ideology,
as my German uncles and cousins killed on the Russian Front and in
U-boats testify. The **** Party people had cushy safe jobs far from the
front, just like Communist Party members in Russia and Bush's kids in
Washington.
>
> The apologies have been given on more than one occasion, some times more
> clear than others, but that is just the Japanese way. Rarely is ANYthing
> ever said directly. It is almost impossible for them given their social
> history. Hell, a group of modern day Japanese friends discussing where to
> go for dinner contains enough indirect hints and beating about the bush that
> you could write a college thesis on it. NOTHING is ever said directly, it
> may be considered...rude.
>
> Unfortunately for them, this communication shortfall is pretty much what
> sealed their fate when it comes to the dropping of the bombs. That and our
> inability to decipher what was truly being said by their government at the
> time. The government was looking for a way out, the military (leadership)
> were the ones wanting to go to the last man.
I don't blame Truman, it had to be done considering the military were
in control. But as Curtis Lemay correctly said, the reason it was the
Japanese and not him going to the war crimes gallows was, we won. Look
at the picture of "Old Hickory" Jackson in your pocket-he defied the
Supreme Court to off the savages. The Israelis hung Eichmann for far
less.
>
> One of things that Americans are just as guilty of as a good portion of the
> rest of the world is assuming that the actions of a government have the
> complete blessing of it's population. It's why the Muslims and a good
> portion of the world think "Americans" are devils, why the US thought all
> Germans were **** murderers, Russians were Commie Bastards, Vietnamese were
> Gooks, Chinese were ******, Japanese were Nips, Camel jockeys, rag heads,
> towel heads, spear chuckers, frogs, wops on an on an on. Beginning to see
> a pattern?
>
> I see Indians (the REAL ones), Egyptians, Iranians, Pakistanis, Chinese, and
> Japanese etc. on a regular and personal basis. The fresh off the boat
> variety so to speak and you know what? Without exception they have been
> regular people that just want to live their lives in peace and get along
> with everyone else. Pretty much just like your average every day American.
>
> I'm sure though that there is the oddball extremist walking the streets
> ready to sow death and destruction in the name of his religion. Much like
> Protestants and Catholics in Ireland.
>
> Imagine that, white skinned Europeans willing to murder in the name of their
> religion, and damn...not a towel or camel in sight.
Yep. There's no master race. We're all about equally capable of murder
and mayhem.
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Sidebar-USS Arizona Preservation Project
Tom Greening wrote:
> "SoK66" <Nospam@SoK.net> wrote in message
> news:dh2ca601hbg@enews2.newsguy.com...
> > Uh, Bret, the US "put Japan in the position...." because they had by 1941
> > murdered about 10 million Chinese in a genocidal spree that shocked even
> the
> > Germans. I'd further suggest that by killing over 2000 sailors, soldiers
> > and Marines, plus unknown number of US civilans on Dec. 7th, they proved
> > themselves to be quite a threat to the United States. They got what they
> had
> > coming. (Someday they'll maybe even appologize to the Chinese.)
> >
>
>
> As if China, before and since, has been a bastion of human rights. To say
> the attack at Pearl Harbor was unfortunate is an understatement, but to
> label it some action of evil is asinine. If WE had been the ones to do the
> attacking do you think we would have announced it? Of course not. It's
> what any military planner strives for, the element of surprise. It was a
> military action, nothing more and nothing less and they handed our hat to
> us.
>
> Did the Japanese get what they had coming? The military most certainly so,
> since they were the ones running the show and lying to the population, but
> John Q. Public pretty much got the shaft at both ends.
Is that ever the truth. It's the noncombatants who suffer-and the
military men loyal to their country but not necessarily the ideology,
as my German uncles and cousins killed on the Russian Front and in
U-boats testify. The **** Party people had cushy safe jobs far from the
front, just like Communist Party members in Russia and Bush's kids in
Washington.
>
> The apologies have been given on more than one occasion, some times more
> clear than others, but that is just the Japanese way. Rarely is ANYthing
> ever said directly. It is almost impossible for them given their social
> history. Hell, a group of modern day Japanese friends discussing where to
> go for dinner contains enough indirect hints and beating about the bush that
> you could write a college thesis on it. NOTHING is ever said directly, it
> may be considered...rude.
>
> Unfortunately for them, this communication shortfall is pretty much what
> sealed their fate when it comes to the dropping of the bombs. That and our
> inability to decipher what was truly being said by their government at the
> time. The government was looking for a way out, the military (leadership)
> were the ones wanting to go to the last man.
I don't blame Truman, it had to be done considering the military were
in control. But as Curtis Lemay correctly said, the reason it was the
Japanese and not him going to the war crimes gallows was, we won. Look
at the picture of "Old Hickory" Jackson in your pocket-he defied the
Supreme Court to off the savages. The Israelis hung Eichmann for far
less.
>
> One of things that Americans are just as guilty of as a good portion of the
> rest of the world is assuming that the actions of a government have the
> complete blessing of it's population. It's why the Muslims and a good
> portion of the world think "Americans" are devils, why the US thought all
> Germans were **** murderers, Russians were Commie Bastards, Vietnamese were
> Gooks, Chinese were ******, Japanese were Nips, Camel jockeys, rag heads,
> towel heads, spear chuckers, frogs, wops on an on an on. Beginning to see
> a pattern?
>
> I see Indians (the REAL ones), Egyptians, Iranians, Pakistanis, Chinese, and
> Japanese etc. on a regular and personal basis. The fresh off the boat
> variety so to speak and you know what? Without exception they have been
> regular people that just want to live their lives in peace and get along
> with everyone else. Pretty much just like your average every day American.
>
> I'm sure though that there is the oddball extremist walking the streets
> ready to sow death and destruction in the name of his religion. Much like
> Protestants and Catholics in Ireland.
>
> Imagine that, white skinned Europeans willing to murder in the name of their
> religion, and damn...not a towel or camel in sight.
Yep. There's no master race. We're all about equally capable of murder
and mayhem.
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Sidebar-USS Arizona Preservation Project
Tom Greening wrote:
> "SoK66" <Nospam@SoK.net> wrote in message
> news:dh2ca601hbg@enews2.newsguy.com...
> > Uh, Bret, the US "put Japan in the position...." because they had by 1941
> > murdered about 10 million Chinese in a genocidal spree that shocked even
> the
> > Germans. I'd further suggest that by killing over 2000 sailors, soldiers
> > and Marines, plus unknown number of US civilans on Dec. 7th, they proved
> > themselves to be quite a threat to the United States. They got what they
> had
> > coming. (Someday they'll maybe even appologize to the Chinese.)
> >
>
>
> As if China, before and since, has been a bastion of human rights. To say
> the attack at Pearl Harbor was unfortunate is an understatement, but to
> label it some action of evil is asinine. If WE had been the ones to do the
> attacking do you think we would have announced it? Of course not. It's
> what any military planner strives for, the element of surprise. It was a
> military action, nothing more and nothing less and they handed our hat to
> us.
>
> Did the Japanese get what they had coming? The military most certainly so,
> since they were the ones running the show and lying to the population, but
> John Q. Public pretty much got the shaft at both ends.
Is that ever the truth. It's the noncombatants who suffer-and the
military men loyal to their country but not necessarily the ideology,
as my German uncles and cousins killed on the Russian Front and in
U-boats testify. The **** Party people had cushy safe jobs far from the
front, just like Communist Party members in Russia and Bush's kids in
Washington.
>
> The apologies have been given on more than one occasion, some times more
> clear than others, but that is just the Japanese way. Rarely is ANYthing
> ever said directly. It is almost impossible for them given their social
> history. Hell, a group of modern day Japanese friends discussing where to
> go for dinner contains enough indirect hints and beating about the bush that
> you could write a college thesis on it. NOTHING is ever said directly, it
> may be considered...rude.
>
> Unfortunately for them, this communication shortfall is pretty much what
> sealed their fate when it comes to the dropping of the bombs. That and our
> inability to decipher what was truly being said by their government at the
> time. The government was looking for a way out, the military (leadership)
> were the ones wanting to go to the last man.
I don't blame Truman, it had to be done considering the military were
in control. But as Curtis Lemay correctly said, the reason it was the
Japanese and not him going to the war crimes gallows was, we won. Look
at the picture of "Old Hickory" Jackson in your pocket-he defied the
Supreme Court to off the savages. The Israelis hung Eichmann for far
less.
>
> One of things that Americans are just as guilty of as a good portion of the
> rest of the world is assuming that the actions of a government have the
> complete blessing of it's population. It's why the Muslims and a good
> portion of the world think "Americans" are devils, why the US thought all
> Germans were **** murderers, Russians were Commie Bastards, Vietnamese were
> Gooks, Chinese were ******, Japanese were Nips, Camel jockeys, rag heads,
> towel heads, spear chuckers, frogs, wops on an on an on. Beginning to see
> a pattern?
>
> I see Indians (the REAL ones), Egyptians, Iranians, Pakistanis, Chinese, and
> Japanese etc. on a regular and personal basis. The fresh off the boat
> variety so to speak and you know what? Without exception they have been
> regular people that just want to live their lives in peace and get along
> with everyone else. Pretty much just like your average every day American.
>
> I'm sure though that there is the oddball extremist walking the streets
> ready to sow death and destruction in the name of his religion. Much like
> Protestants and Catholics in Ireland.
>
> Imagine that, white skinned Europeans willing to murder in the name of their
> religion, and damn...not a towel or camel in sight.
Yep. There's no master race. We're all about equally capable of murder
and mayhem.