Thomas Waldron

Well, we've certainly had our differences of opinion, but I'm no serial
killer. At least not yet...muahahahahahah <---- evil, maniacal laugh.
I just resolve myself not to get into any political or military
discussions with you. :)

I will definitely be staying on the Silverton side next time. I ended up
in Lake City because I wanted to start my daughter off easy with the
Summitville Ghost Town trail and it leads up to the LC side. LC was
cool, but it was too far removed from some of the other trails. You have
to take Cinnamon or Engineer just to get to the other trails and that
loop alone can take up most of your day.

I was orig. planning on staying on both sides, but once the TJ was
loaded down with all my camping gear, coolers, etc. (already had a
bumper/spare tire combo and winch working against my clearance) I was
lower than a stock X model and was concerned about making the journey
through Cinnamon. I guess I could have driven around on the hwy, but
that just seemed like blasphemy. At any rate, I'm sure I'll have my lift
on by the time the next trip rolls around (pun intended) but I think
I'll come up thru Durango and stay to the western side.

Still think you should buy the Scout!

Earle Horton wrote:
> Next time, give me a call. My wife has almost got over thinking that people
> I meet on the internet are serial killers, and she's a sucker for kids
> (although she won't admit it). And come to Silverton first. It's our turn
> to get your money. ;o)
>
> That Scout might still be here too. I've decided to use the money on an
> axle upgrade for the Jeep. It is galvanized, after all.
>
> Earle
>
> "Thomas Waldron" <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:3F16088B.8040002@sbcglobal.net...
>
>>The folks in Lake City got most of my money, but I did spend some in
>>Silverton. I certainly will be back. It's incredible countryside, to say
>>the least. After all, I still have to tackle Black Bear. :)
>>
>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>
>>>You should have stayed a bit longer. My friends need the business. ;o)
>>>Glad you both liked it here. The Scout is still sitting on the street,
>>>still has the For Sale sign, still calling to me.
>>>
>>>Earle
>>>
>>>"Thomas Waldron" <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>news:3F15D65D.6070802@sbcglobal.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Actually, I thought about looking for the International you were talking
>>>>about, but we ate a late lunch and took off for Ouray to get on
>>>>Engineer. My daughter found the gift shops most intriguing so I had to
>>>>get out of there fast. :)
>>>>
>>>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Why the hell didn't you stop by or at least call? ;o)
>>>>>
>>>>>Earle
>>>>>
>>>>>"Thomas Waldron" <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:3F157CB8.90100@sbcglobal.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I was in Silverton they day before yesterday in my Rubi and I'm not
>>>>>
> even
>
>>>>>>close to 65. Every Rubi I saw there had a driver much under retirement
>>>>>>age. Of those I saw, only one was lifted and he was from Texas too. I
>>>>>>did see a Libby on Engineer Pass trail, but I'd have to agree with the
>>>>>>description of the 'other' vehicles up there with the exception of the
>>>>>>comment about 'new' vehicles. I saw plenty of newer vehicles on the
>>>>>>trail. The prevalent vehicle had to be the rental TJ X's though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I live in Silverton, CO, Jeep paradise, there are lots of them here,
>>>>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>from what I have seen you have to be at least sixty-five to own or
>>>>>
>>>drive
>>>
>>>
>>>>>a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rubicon. I guess I won't be getting mine for twelve years then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Another
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>rule is that you don't take a new vehicle like a Rubicon or its
>>>>>>
> sister
>
>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Liberty on actual four wheel drive trails. The kids who actually
>>>>>>
> like
>
>>>>>to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>off road and are good at it drive CJ7s, old Wranglers, FJ-40s, full
>>>>>>
>>>>>sized
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Blazers, Samurais, CRVs (!), beat up Toyota pickups, short bed step
>>>>>>
>>>side
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>Ford pickups. Don't have the paint looking too good and drive it
>>>>>>
> here
>
>>>>>if
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>you don't want to be laughed at. If you flat tow it behind a motor
>>>>>>
>>>home
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>that is almost acceptable. ;o)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Earle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Desert YJ" <jeepaholics@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:disQa.1056$Mc.90236@newsread1.prod.itd .earthlink.net...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The Rubi isn't just about lockers - look at the t-case. If you're
>>>>>>>
>>>going
>>>
>>>
>>>>>to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>build up a Jeep, get a Rubi, put a lift, winch and 35's on it and
>>>>>>>
>>>you're
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>done! That's what I did.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Boneman1" <boneman1@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:cfjtgvgjq0q8tvln1cnk1sl98tc8v5rsi3@4a x.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I've been thinking about buying the Jeep Rubicon, but I wanted to
>>>>>>>>
> see
>
>>>>>>>>>what some of you that have had one for a while think about them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>I'll
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>be using it as my daily driver as well as occasional off road fun.
>>>>>>>>
>>>Is
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>it worth the extra money or would my money be better spent on the
>>>>>>>>>Sport or X and then adding a lift, tires, and lockers on my own?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Thanks in advance for your advice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Jeff
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>____________________________________________ _______________
>>>>>>tw
>>>>>>03 TJ Rubicon
>>>>>>01 XJ Sport
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
>>>>>>-- Dave Barry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
>>>>>>http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
>>>>>>(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
>>>>>>____________________________________________ _______________
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>______________________________________________ _____________
>>>>tw
>>>>03 TJ Rubicon
>>>>01 XJ Sport
>>>>
>>>>There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
>>>>-- Dave Barry
>>>>
>>>>http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
>>>>http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
>>>>(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
>>>>______________________________________________ _____________
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>>________________________________________________ ___________
>>tw
>>03 TJ Rubicon
>>01 XJ Sport
>>
>>There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
>>-- Dave Barry
>>
>>http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
>>http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
>>(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
>>________________________________________________ ___________
>>
>
>
>


--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

Thomas Waldron

If your definition of a Jeep is a rock buggy, then I agree. It _would_
be a waste to start with the setup/cost of a Rubicon. My definition of a
Jeep is much different from yours and the Rubicon is a highly capable
Jeep right out of the box. I've owned 2 CJ7s, 1 YJ, 2 XJs and the
Rubicon is BY FAR the most capable in stock form. Anyone who argues
differently has never driven one, or just has sour grapes and believe me
there are plenty with the latter. Put a lift and some 33s on and you can
do all but the most technical trails, including many in Moab.

Personally, I put hardcore rock climbing, where the Jeep has nothing
stock left on it or is a buggy, akin to monster truck pulls. Like you
said, to each his own. I might be taking a few bypasses, but I'll be
there taking pics.

My reason for repying was the bipolar nature of your statement. Either a
mall cruiser or a rock buggy. You are a crawling extremist (or at least
consider yourself one) with no tolerance for the bulk of the Jeeping
population where the Rubicon shines. As far as 'feeling bad' for owning
a Rubicon...what a joke!

Remember E.L., no matter how much money you sink into your rig, there is
always going to be a better rig and better driver than you. See you on
the trails!


E.L. Lambert wrote:
> Thomas Waldron <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<3F15D7B3.2020605@sbcglobal.net>...
>
>
>>Have you never owned the 6cyl?? It is more than capable.
>>
>>I guess that eliminates 95% of Jeep owners who use them as dual purpose.
>>Must've been tough in high school choosing that first car...gosh, the
>>top fuel
>>dragster or the Geo...
>
>
>
> If by "dual purpose" and "capable" you mean it is good for both the
> street and occasional mild off road conditions where a car such as a
> Honda sedan could probably not pass, fine. But if you mean, let's
> say, the major trails at Moab, your stock Rubicon is going to get left
> behind or broken.
>
> A stock Rubicon will not handle serious trails. Don't feel bad, no
> stock vehicle can. They just don't have the lift, tires, etc.
>
> I'm not saying a Rubicon can't be made into a rockcrawler for the
> right price. Hell, you can build a Yugo into an offroader that will
> put most jeeps to shame, if you have unlimited time, knowledge, and
> budget. What I'm saying is that if your primary goal is wheelin',
> the $30k+ that you'll spend to get a Rubicon, lift it, put 35+ inch
> tires on it, etc., is not the most efficient use of your money. You
> could have a rip roarin' CJ or YJ for much, much, much less.
>
> True, a hard core CJ or YJ would not be as stylish, modern, or shiny
> looking in the mall parking lot as a pretty new stock Rubicon. Which
> reinforces the other point I was making: If you want a street cruiser,
> the cash for the Dana 44s, 4:1 tcase, and other Rubicon goodies is
> gonna go to waste. If you want a street cruiser, get a sport or SE,
> and spend the cash you saved on lowering it down, putting some
> blacklights and ground effects underneath, and installing a massive
> stereo and amplifier. That type of jeep wouldn't be my cup of tea,
> but hey, to each his own.


--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

Earle Horton

Have you thought of getting a small utility trailer for the camping gear or
(Horrors!) a motor home and a flat bed trailer for the Jeep?

Glad you liked it up here. I love it.

Earle

"Thomas Waldron" <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3F16C092.5010901@sbcglobal.net...
> Well, we've certainly had our differences of opinion, but I'm no serial
> killer. At least not yet...muahahahahahah <---- evil, maniacal laugh.
> I just resolve myself not to get into any political or military
> discussions with you. :)
>
> I will definitely be staying on the Silverton side next time. I ended up
> in Lake City because I wanted to start my daughter off easy with the
> Summitville Ghost Town trail and it leads up to the LC side. LC was
> cool, but it was too far removed from some of the other trails. You have
> to take Cinnamon or Engineer just to get to the other trails and that
> loop alone can take up most of your day.
>
> I was orig. planning on staying on both sides, but once the TJ was
> loaded down with all my camping gear, coolers, etc. (already had a
> bumper/spare tire combo and winch working against my clearance) I was
> lower than a stock X model and was concerned about making the journey
> through Cinnamon. I guess I could have driven around on the hwy, but
> that just seemed like blasphemy. At any rate, I'm sure I'll have my lift
> on by the time the next trip rolls around (pun intended) but I think
> I'll come up thru Durango and stay to the western side.
>
> Still think you should buy the Scout!
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> > Next time, give me a call. My wife has almost got over thinking that
people
> > I meet on the internet are serial killers, and she's a sucker for kids
> > (although she won't admit it). And come to Silverton first. It's our
turn
> > to get your money. ;o)
> >
> > That Scout might still be here too. I've decided to use the money on an
> > axle upgrade for the Jeep. It is galvanized, after all.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Thomas Waldron" <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:3F16088B.8040002@sbcglobal.net...
> >
> >>The folks in Lake City got most of my money, but I did spend some in
> >>Silverton. I certainly will be back. It's incredible countryside, to say
> >>the least. After all, I still have to tackle Black Bear. :)
> >>
> >>Earle Horton wrote:
> >>
> >>>You should have stayed a bit longer. My friends need the business.
;o)
> >>>Glad you both liked it here. The Scout is still sitting on the street,
> >>>still has the For Sale sign, still calling to me.
> >>>
> >>>Earle
> >>>
> >>>"Thomas Waldron" <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:3F15D65D.6070802@sbcglobal.net...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Actually, I thought about looking for the International you were
talking
> >>>>about, but we ate a late lunch and took off for Ouray to get on
> >>>>Engineer. My daughter found the gift shops most intriguing so I had to
> >>>>get out of there fast. :)
> >>>>
> >>>>Earle Horton wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Why the hell didn't you stop by or at least call? ;o)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Earle
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Thomas Waldron" <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:3F157CB8.90100@sbcglobal.net...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I was in Silverton they day before yesterday in my Rubi and I'm not
> >>>>>
> > even
> >
> >>>>>>close to 65. Every Rubi I saw there had a driver much under
retirement
> >>>>>>age. Of those I saw, only one was lifted and he was from Texas too.
I
> >>>>>>did see a Libby on Engineer Pass trail, but I'd have to agree with
the
> >>>>>>description of the 'other' vehicles up there with the exception of
the
> >>>>>>comment about 'new' vehicles. I saw plenty of newer vehicles on the
> >>>>>>trail. The prevalent vehicle had to be the rental TJ X's though.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Earle Horton wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I live in Silverton, CO, Jeep paradise, there are lots of them
here,
> >>>>>>
> >>>and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>from what I have seen you have to be at least sixty-five to own or
> >>>>>
> >>>drive
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>Rubicon. I guess I won't be getting mine for twelve years then.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Another
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>rule is that you don't take a new vehicle like a Rubicon or its
> >>>>>>
> > sister
> >
> >>>>>the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>Liberty on actual four wheel drive trails. The kids who actually
> >>>>>>
> > like
> >
> >>>>>to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>off road and are good at it drive CJ7s, old Wranglers, FJ-40s, full
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>sized
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>Blazers, Samurais, CRVs (!), beat up Toyota pickups, short bed step
> >>>>>>
> >>>side
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>Ford pickups. Don't have the paint looking too good and drive it
> >>>>>>
> > here
> >
> >>>>>if
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>you don't want to be laughed at. If you flat tow it behind a motor
> >>>>>>
> >>>home
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>that is almost acceptable. ;o)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Earle
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Desert YJ" <jeepaholics@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:disQa.1056$Mc.90236@newsread1.prod.itd .earthlink.net...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>The Rubi isn't just about lockers - look at the t-case. If you're
> >>>>>>>
> >>>going
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>build up a Jeep, get a Rubi, put a lift, winch and 35's on it and
> >>>>>>>
> >>>you're
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>done! That's what I did.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>"Boneman1" <boneman1@charter.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>news:cfjtgvgjq0q8tvln1cnk1sl98tc8v5rsi3@4a x.com...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I've been thinking about buying the Jeep Rubicon, but I wanted to
> >>>>>>>>
> > see
> >
> >>>>>>>>>what some of you that have had one for a while think about them.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>I'll
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>be using it as my daily driver as well as occasional off road
fun.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>Is
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>it worth the extra money or would my money be better spent on the
> >>>>>>>>>Sport or X and then adding a lift, tires, and lockers on my own?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Thanks in advance for your advice.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>--
> >>>>>>____________________________________________ _______________
> >>>>>>tw
> >>>>>>03 TJ Rubicon
> >>>>>>01 XJ Sport
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
> >>>>>>-- Dave Barry
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
> >>>>>>http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
> >>>>>>(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
> >>>>>>____________________________________________ _______________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>______________________________________________ _____________
> >>>>tw
> >>>>03 TJ Rubicon
> >>>>01 XJ Sport
> >>>>
> >>>>There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
> >>>>-- Dave Barry
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
> >>>>http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
> >>>>(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
> >>>>______________________________________________ _____________
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>--
> >>________________________________________________ ___________
> >>tw
> >>03 TJ Rubicon
> >>01 XJ Sport
> >>
> >>There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
> >>-- Dave Barry
> >>
> >>http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
> >>http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
> >>(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
> >>________________________________________________ ___________
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> __________________________________________________ _________
> tw
> 03 TJ Rubicon
> 01 XJ Sport
>
> There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
> -- Dave Barry
>
> http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
> http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
> (Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
> __________________________________________________ _________
>

Thomas Waldron

I've been looking at M100s and M416s since I bought my Sahara in '99. I
almost bought a Canadian version recently. The main issue is storage
when not in use and, of course, finding one without rust. I'm not ready
for a motorhome, but I've considered a flatbed trailer, though my pickup
is only rated at 5000# towing cap. :(

Now, my brother has this diesel F250 extra cab......

Earle Horton wrote:
> Have you thought of getting a small utility trailer for the camping gear or
> (Horrors!) a motor home and a flat bed trailer for the Jeep?
>
> Glad you liked it up here. I love it.
>
> Earle
>
> "Thomas Waldron" <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:3F16C092.5010901@sbcglobal.net...
>
>>Well, we've certainly had our differences of opinion, but I'm no serial
>>killer. At least not yet...muahahahahahah <---- evil, maniacal laugh.
>>I just resolve myself not to get into any political or military
>>discussions with you. :)
>>
>>I will definitely be staying on the Silverton side next time. I ended up
>>in Lake City because I wanted to start my daughter off easy with the
>>Summitville Ghost Town trail and it leads up to the LC side. LC was
>>cool, but it was too far removed from some of the other trails. You have
>>to take Cinnamon or Engineer just to get to the other trails and that
>>loop alone can take up most of your day.
>>
>>I was orig. planning on staying on both sides, but once the TJ was
>>loaded down with all my camping gear, coolers, etc. (already had a
>>bumper/spare tire combo and winch working against my clearance) I was
>>lower than a stock X model and was concerned about making the journey
>>through Cinnamon. I guess I could have driven around on the hwy, but
>>that just seemed like blasphemy. At any rate, I'm sure I'll have my lift
>>on by the time the next trip rolls around (pun intended) but I think
>>I'll come up thru Durango and stay to the western side.
>>
>>Still think you should buy the Scout!
>>
>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>
>>>Next time, give me a call. My wife has almost got over thinking that
>>
> people
>
>>>I meet on the internet are serial killers, and she's a sucker for kids
>>>(although she won't admit it). And come to Silverton first. It's our
>>
> turn
>
>>>to get your money. ;o)
>>>
>>>That Scout might still be here too. I've decided to use the money on an
>>>axle upgrade for the Jeep. It is galvanized, after all.
>>>
>>>Earle
>>>
>>>"Thomas Waldron" <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>news:3F16088B.8040002@sbcglobal.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>The folks in Lake City got most of my money, but I did spend some in
>>>>Silverton. I certainly will be back. It's incredible countryside, to say
>>>>the least. After all, I still have to tackle Black Bear. :)
>>>>
>>>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>You should have stayed a bit longer. My friends need the business.
>>>>
> ;o)
>
>>>>>Glad you both liked it here. The Scout is still sitting on the street,
>>>>>still has the For Sale sign, still calling to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>Earle
>>>>>
>>>>>"Thomas Waldron" <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:3F15D65D.6070802@sbcglobal.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Actually, I thought about looking for the International you were
>>>>>
> talking
>
>>>>>>about, but we ate a late lunch and took off for Ouray to get on
>>>>>>Engineer. My daughter found the gift shops most intriguing so I had to
>>>>>>get out of there fast. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why the hell didn't you stop by or at least call? ;o)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Earle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Thomas Waldron" <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:3F157CB8.90100@sbcglobal.net...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I was in Silverton they day before yesterday in my Rubi and I'm not
>>>>>>>
>>>even
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>close to 65. Every Rubi I saw there had a driver much under
>>>>>>>
> retirement
>
>>>>>>>>age. Of those I saw, only one was lifted and he was from Texas too.
>>>>>>>
> I
>
>>>>>>>>did see a Libby on Engineer Pass trail, but I'd have to agree with
>>>>>>>
> the
>
>>>>>>>>description of the 'other' vehicles up there with the exception of
>>>>>>>
> the
>
>>>>>>>>comment about 'new' vehicles. I saw plenty of newer vehicles on the
>>>>>>>>trail. The prevalent vehicle had to be the rental TJ X's though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Earle Horton wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I live in Silverton, CO, Jeep paradise, there are lots of them
>>>>>>>>
> here,
>
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>from what I have seen you have to be at least sixty-five to own or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>drive
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Rubicon. I guess I won't be getting mine for twelve years then.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Another
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>rule is that you don't take a new vehicle like a Rubicon or its
>>>>>>>>
>>>sister
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Liberty on actual four wheel drive trails. The kids who actually
>>>>>>>>
>>>like
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>off road and are good at it drive CJ7s, old Wranglers, FJ-40s, full
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>sized
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Blazers, Samurais, CRVs (!), beat up Toyota pickups, short bed step
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>side
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Ford pickups. Don't have the paint looking too good and drive it
>>>>>>>>
>>>here
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>you don't want to be laughed at. If you flat tow it behind a motor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>home
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>that is almost acceptable. ;o)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Earle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Desert YJ" <jeepaholics@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:disQa.1056$Mc.90236@newsread1.prod.i td.earthlink.net...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The Rubi isn't just about lockers - look at the t-case. If you're
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>going
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>build up a Jeep, get a Rubi, put a lift, winch and 35's on it and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>you're
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>done! That's what I did.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Boneman1" <boneman1@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:cfjtgvgjq0q8tvln1cnk1sl98tc8v5rsi3@ 4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I've been thinking about buying the Jeep Rubicon, but I wanted to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>see
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>what some of you that have had one for a while think about them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>I'll
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>be using it as my daily driver as well as occasional off road
>>>>>>>>>>
> fun.
>
>>>>>Is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>it worth the extra money or would my money be better spent on the
>>>>>>>>>>>Sport or X and then adding a lift, tires, and lockers on my own?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks in advance for your advice.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Jeff
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>__________________________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>>tw
>>>>>>>>03 TJ Rubicon
>>>>>>>>01 XJ Sport
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
>>>>>>>>-- Dave Barry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
>>>>>>>>http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
>>>>>>>>(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
>>>>>>>>__________________________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>____________________________________________ _______________
>>>>>>tw
>>>>>>03 TJ Rubicon
>>>>>>01 XJ Sport
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
>>>>>>-- Dave Barry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
>>>>>>http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
>>>>>>(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
>>>>>>____________________________________________ _______________
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>______________________________________________ _____________
>>>>tw
>>>>03 TJ Rubicon
>>>>01 XJ Sport
>>>>
>>>>There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
>>>>-- Dave Barry
>>>>
>>>>http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
>>>>http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
>>>>(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
>>>>______________________________________________ _____________
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>>________________________________________________ ___________
>>tw
>>03 TJ Rubicon
>>01 XJ Sport
>>
>>There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
>>-- Dave Barry
>>
>>http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
>>http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
>>(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
>>________________________________________________ ___________
>>
>
>
>


--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

Jeff Olsen

That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a Trak-lok
will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go. Much
less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of even a
stock TJ, much less a Rubi.

I think it IS possible to have a dual-purpose Jeep and many people
do. They may not be rigs capable of the toughest trails, but that's not
really the point. Point is, they are both a fun vehicle to drive on-road
AND arguable the most capable vehicle available, stock for stock. Plus
most of us don't live where there's that kind of wheeling anyway.

My TJ is going to evolve, funds willing, into a 4.10 geared Jeep with
31's or 32's, a very moderate lift, and those gear-driven limited slips
front and back. And a winch. I think that is very much a dual purpose
vehicle. If you are saying that the Jeep I just described is not
"capable" then I think you are being too elitist about what wheeling
is. And I don't spend ANY time in mall parking lots <g>!

-jeff


In <76b045c1.0307170714.5fbac29a@posting.google.com > lambeth65@earthlink.net (E.L. Lambert) writes:

>Thomas Waldron <obviousTWaldron@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<3F15D7B3.2020605@sbcglobal.net>...

>If by "dual purpose" and "capable" you mean it is good for both the
>street and occasional mild off road conditions where a car such as a
>Honda sedan could probably not pass, fine. But if you mean, let's
>say, the major trails at Moab, your stock Rubicon is going to get left
>behind or broken.

Barry R.

I don't Know what your talking about. Rubicons seem to walk all over
the all but most exotic CJs that I've seen on the trail If your
looking at a Jeep to put a Dana 60 and 44 inch tires on then your
looking at the wrong vehicle. At that point you build your own
vehicle from scratch out of pipe.
On 16 Jul 2003 12:10:55 -0700, lambeth65@earthlink.net (E.L. Lambert)
wrote:

>> I've been thinking about buying the Jeep Rubicon, but I wanted to see
>> what some of you that have had one for a while think about them. I'll
>> be using it as my daily driver as well as occasional off road fun. Is
>> it worth the extra money or would my money be better spent on the
>> Sport or X and then adding a lift, tires, and lockers on my own?
>>
>
>I just can't see the sense in paying the high price for a new Rubi.
>For your top dollar, you are getting decent, but not great, off-road
>performance. (No lift, no Dana 60, no 8-cylinder engine.)
>
>The way I see it, there are two kinds of jeeps: Street cruisers and
>true off-roaders. If you want a street cruiser, buy an SE or a Sport
>and have fun with it. If you want a true off-roader, you could buy a
>built CJ with dual locking Dana 60s and 44 inch super swampers for
>1/3 the cost of a new Rubi.
>
>The Rubi exists in this weird half-of-both world. People who buy
>Rubis and don't have any offroading plans are morons with wallets
>bigger than their brains. People who have true offroading plans know
>the stock Rubi isn't up to the job... unless you have Bill Gates'
>budget to trick it out.

tbowman

I've had my Rubicon for about 1.5 months now. I love it. I should also
say this is my first Wrangler, but I do own a 96 XJ.

I drive it with the doors off, softtop on, and windows out. I drive it
daily to work, about 9 miles. Also, I have 2 child car seats in the
back for the crumb snatchers. This always gets grins from others at
stop lights!

I live in Reno, Nevada and have taken it: Hunter Lake trail, Hensely
Pass,
over Peavine, Carson-Spooner Lake OHV USFS trail, Pyramid Lake beach
sands,
Keystone, and various other random local mountains that called us.

The Rubicon is probably not for everyone. It's good for me because:
1. I'm not the best mechanic to do the mods/upgrades myself. It would
probably never get done becasue I have project ADD, they never get
finished.
2. I can finance it at a very low rate
3. I get a warranty (with mods the engine and tranny should still be
honored, fingers crossed)
4. All I need further is a $600 WARN winch and a RE $900-$2000 lift
(depends which I get).

I'm sure someone will point out flaws in my rationalization but it's
done. I should also add the Mrs. likes it as well. It is the weekend
family car.


Terry



lambeth65@earthlink.net (E.L. Lambert) wrote in message news:<76b045c1.0307161110.2299db5b@posting.google. com>...
> > I've been thinking about buying the Jeep Rubicon, but I wanted to see
> > what some of you that have had one for a while think about them. I'll
> > be using it as my daily driver as well as occasional off road fun. Is
> > it worth the extra money or would my money be better spent on the
> > Sport or X and then adding a lift, tires, and lockers on my own?
> >
>
> I just can't see the sense in paying the high price for a new Rubi.
> For your top dollar, you are getting decent, but not great, off-road
> performance. (No lift, no Dana 60, no 8-cylinder engine.)
>
> The way I see it, there are two kinds of jeeps: Street cruisers and
> true off-roaders. If you want a street cruiser, buy an SE or a Sport
> and have fun with it. If you want a true off-roader, you could buy a
> built CJ with dual locking Dana 60s and 44 inch super swampers for
> 1/3 the cost of a new Rubi.
>
> The Rubi exists in this weird half-of-both world. People who buy
> Rubis and don't have any offroading plans are morons with wallets
> bigger than their brains. People who have true offroading plans know
> the stock Rubi isn't up to the job... unless you have Bill Gates'
> budget to trick it out.

Big Daddy

Jeff Olsen wrote:

> That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a Trak-lok
> will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go. Much
> less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of even a
> stock TJ, much less a Rubi.

Stock 4cyl Wranglers are _very_ capable off-roaders. Hell, they'll kick the
pants off of 98% of all SUV's on the market off-road. I had a link where a
stock Wrangler Sport was compared to a Tacoma, Hummer H1 (the big dog), and
a Land Rover Discovery. The Sport tied for first with the Tacoma, only
because the limited slip didn't grab in time to prevent it from getting
stuck once. Far back in 3rd place was the H1 and even further back was the
Land Rover. People see images of seriously built rigs and think that's what
it takes to go off-road or they believe the hype behind the names like
Hummer and Land Rover. My Wrangler has no lift at all, 30" BFG All-Terrain
KO's, Dana 30 and 35 axles, limited slip rear and 3.07 gears. It off-roads
pretty good for the places I take it. I don't live in the Rocky's and have
to crawl over boulders. I live in Cincinnati and mostly see dirt.

> I think it IS possible to have a dual-purpose Jeep and many people
> do. They may not be rigs capable of the toughest trails, but that's not
> really the point. Point is, they are both a fun vehicle to drive on-road
> AND arguable the most capable vehicle available, stock for stock. Plus
> most of us don't live where there's that kind of wheeling anyway.

Your rig only has to be capable of the terrain you drive on. If that's
pavement, then any Wrangler will suffice. If it sees mostly dirt and few
obstacles, again, any Wrangler will suffice. If you do hills and need some
power, an X or Sport will work well for you. If you want to crawl over
rocks and they aren't stupid big, a stock Rubi will work. Now, if you want
to crawl up waterfalls, go over huge boulders and really seek out the most
serious off-road adventures, you'll need to build to suit. That's not
saying that there aren't occasions that on lesser stuff a rig with a lift
and 33's wouldn't help out quite a bit, but if you don't need them, don't
waste your money.

> My TJ is going to evolve, funds willing, into a 4.10 geared Jeep with
> 31's or 32's, a very moderate lift, and those gear-driven limited slips
> front and back. And a winch. I think that is very much a dual purpose
> vehicle. If you are saying that the Jeep I just described is not
> "capable" then I think you are being too elitist about what wheeling
> is. And I don't spend ANY time in mall parking lots <g>!

Or just too uneducated. Most magazines publish the insane rock crawlers
because they make for interesting reading. This is less than 5% of
off-roading.

I don't think I'd want lockers that aren't selectable for the street.
Slippery driving on the street works better with limited slip, IMO, as the
Wrangler is already tail-happy enough as-is and don't think I'd like to
lose my steering on a slippery surface on the street. Since my Wrangler
sees more pavement duty, by far, I opted to run just a limited slip in the
back. Yeah, it could use lockers, at times, off-road, but it doesn't see
enough of that to justify it.

Thomas W.

Nothing flawed there, Terry.

tbowman wrote:
> I've had my Rubicon for about 1.5 months now. I love it. I should also
> say this is my first Wrangler, but I do own a 96 XJ.
>
> I drive it with the doors off, softtop on, and windows out. I drive it
> daily to work, about 9 miles. Also, I have 2 child car seats in the
> back for the crumb snatchers. This always gets grins from others at
> stop lights!
>
> I live in Reno, Nevada and have taken it: Hunter Lake trail, Hensely
> Pass,
> over Peavine, Carson-Spooner Lake OHV USFS trail, Pyramid Lake beach
> sands,
> Keystone, and various other random local mountains that called us.
>
> The Rubicon is probably not for everyone. It's good for me because:
> 1. I'm not the best mechanic to do the mods/upgrades myself. It would
> probably never get done becasue I have project ADD, they never get
> finished.
> 2. I can finance it at a very low rate
> 3. I get a warranty (with mods the engine and tranny should still be
> honored, fingers crossed)
> 4. All I need further is a $600 WARN winch and a RE $900-$2000 lift
> (depends which I get).
>
> I'm sure someone will point out flaws in my rationalization but it's
> done. I should also add the Mrs. likes it as well. It is the weekend
> family car.
>
>
> Terry
>
>
>
> lambeth65@earthlink.net (E.L. Lambert) wrote in message news:<76b045c1.0307161110.2299db5b@posting.google. .com>...
>
>>>I've been thinking about buying the Jeep Rubicon, but I wanted to see
>>>what some of you that have had one for a while think about them. I'll
>>>be using it as my daily driver as well as occasional off road fun. Is
>>>it worth the extra money or would my money be better spent on the
>>>Sport or X and then adding a lift, tires, and lockers on my own?
>>>
>>
>>I just can't see the sense in paying the high price for a new Rubi.
>>For your top dollar, you are getting decent, but not great, off-road
>>performance. (No lift, no Dana 60, no 8-cylinder engine.)
>>
>>The way I see it, there are two kinds of jeeps: Street cruisers and
>>true off-roaders. If you want a street cruiser, buy an SE or a Sport
>>and have fun with it. If you want a true off-roader, you could buy a
>>built CJ with dual locking Dana 60s and 44 inch super swampers for
>>1/3 the cost of a new Rubi.
>>
>>The Rubi exists in this weird half-of-both world. People who buy
>>Rubis and don't have any offroading plans are morons with wallets
>>bigger than their brains. People who have true offroading plans know
>>the stock Rubi isn't up to the job... unless you have Bill Gates'
>>budget to trick it out.
>


--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

Brian

In article <bfapti$96c@garcia.efn.org>, jeffo@efn.org (Jeff Olsen)
wrote:

> That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a Trak-lok
> will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go. Much
> less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of even a
> stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
>
>

Stock is indeed quite capable. I seem to remember something about an
expedition across the Americas - from North, down Central to South
America - that was completed with CJs that had only minor mods.

B

--
Brian Heller

It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.