Rubicon: What do you think?
07-20-2003, 09:31 AM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Rubicon: What do you think?
A stock Volkswagen Beetle went the other way a few years ago. This was on
roads rather than trails, but the definition of "road" in certain parts of
South America is about the same as our "trail." I read about a guy on a
mountain bike going the length of South America too.
Earle
"Brian" <bsheller@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bsheller-2DECDB.23253819072004@nnrp06.earthlink.net...
> In article <bfapti$96c@garcia.efn.org>, jeffo@efn.org (Jeff Olsen)
> wrote:
>
> > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a Trak-lok
> > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go. Much
> > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of even a
> > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
> >
> >
>
> Stock is indeed quite capable. I seem to remember something about an
> expedition across the Americas - from North, down Central to South
> America - that was completed with CJs that had only minor mods.
>
> B
>
> --
> Brian Heller
>
> It is easier to tame wild beasts
> than to conquer the human mind.
roads rather than trails, but the definition of "road" in certain parts of
South America is about the same as our "trail." I read about a guy on a
mountain bike going the length of South America too.
Earle
"Brian" <bsheller@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bsheller-2DECDB.23253819072004@nnrp06.earthlink.net...
> In article <bfapti$96c@garcia.efn.org>, jeffo@efn.org (Jeff Olsen)
> wrote:
>
> > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a Trak-lok
> > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go. Much
> > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of even a
> > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
> >
> >
>
> Stock is indeed quite capable. I seem to remember something about an
> expedition across the Americas - from North, down Central to South
> America - that was completed with CJs that had only minor mods.
>
> B
>
> --
> Brian Heller
>
> It is easier to tame wild beasts
> than to conquer the human mind.
07-22-2003, 05:43 PM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Rubicon: What do you think?
Saw an H2 for the first time on Saturday. Boy is that a strange vehicle. I
especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the corners.
I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the Tonka
toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I cant
see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have a
Range Rover for less...
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
: Jeff Olsen wrote:
:
: > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a Trak-lok
: > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go. Much
: > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of even a
: > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
:
especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the corners.
I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the Tonka
toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I cant
see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have a
Range Rover for less...
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
: Jeff Olsen wrote:
:
: > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a Trak-lok
: > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go. Much
: > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of even a
: > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
:
07-22-2003, 07:52 PM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Rubicon: What do you think?
Must less than 94000.. aren't they? I thought they were like.. $55k
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
> Saw an H2 for the first time on Saturday. Boy is that a strange vehicle. I
> especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the
corners.
> I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the Tonka
> toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I
cant
> see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have a
> Range Rover for less...
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
> : Jeff Olsen wrote:
> :
> : > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a
Trak-lok
> : > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go.
Much
> : > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of even a
> : > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
> :
>
>
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
> Saw an H2 for the first time on Saturday. Boy is that a strange vehicle. I
> especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the
corners.
> I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the Tonka
> toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I
cant
> see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have a
> Range Rover for less...
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
> : Jeff Olsen wrote:
> :
> : > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a
Trak-lok
> : > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go.
Much
> : > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of even a
> : > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
> :
>
>
07-22-2003, 08:24 PM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Rubicon: What do you think?
Look at German's Ford and Chevy, the Mercedes and BMW.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> A vehicle can double in price simply by crossing the Atlantic.
>
> Earle
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> A vehicle can double in price simply by crossing the Atlantic.
>
> Earle
07-22-2003, 08:39 PM
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Rubicon: What do you think?
Wonder if the H2, aka GMC in butch nightgown, is being confused
with the original HumVee.
Billy Tolcher wrote:
> Must less than 94000.. aren't they? I thought they were like.. $55k
>
>
> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
>> Saw an H2 for the first time on Saturday. Boy is that a strange vehicle. I
>> especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the
> corners.
>> I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the Tonka
>> toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I
> cant
>> see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have a
>> Range Rover for less...
>>
>> Dave Milne, Scotland
>> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>>
>> "Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
>> : Jeff Olsen wrote:
>> :
>> : > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a
> Trak-lok
>> : > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go.
> Much
>> : > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of even a
>> : > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
>> :
>>
>>
>
>
07-22-2003, 08:55 PM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Rubicon: What do you think?
Sorry..
I didn't realize where you were.. :)
Billy
"Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote in message
news:bfkk23$fh537$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de...
> A vehicle can double in price simply by crossing the Atlantic.
>
> Earle
>
> "Billy Tolcher" <btolcher@sc.xxxrr.com> wrote in message
> news:47kTa.255723$nr.10757965@twister.southeast.rr .com...
> > Must less than 94000.. aren't they? I thought they were like.. $55k
> >
> >
> > "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > > Saw an H2 for the first time on Saturday. Boy is that a strange
vehicle.
> I
> > > especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the
> > corners.
> > > I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the
> Tonka
> > > toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I
> > cant
> > > see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could
have
> a
> > > Range Rover for less...
> > >
> > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > >
> > > "Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
> > > : Jeff Olsen wrote:
> > > :
> > > : > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a
> > Trak-lok
> > > : > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go.
> > Much
> > > : > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of
even
> a
> > > : > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
> > > :
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
I didn't realize where you were.. :)
Billy
"Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote in message
news:bfkk23$fh537$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de...
> A vehicle can double in price simply by crossing the Atlantic.
>
> Earle
>
> "Billy Tolcher" <btolcher@sc.xxxrr.com> wrote in message
> news:47kTa.255723$nr.10757965@twister.southeast.rr .com...
> > Must less than 94000.. aren't they? I thought they were like.. $55k
> >
> >
> > "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
> > > Saw an H2 for the first time on Saturday. Boy is that a strange
vehicle.
> I
> > > especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the
> > corners.
> > > I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the
> Tonka
> > > toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I
> > cant
> > > see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could
have
> a
> > > Range Rover for less...
> > >
> > > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> > >
> > > "Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
> > > : Jeff Olsen wrote:
> > > :
> > > : > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a
> > Trak-lok
> > > : > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go.
> > Much
> > > : > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of
even
> a
> > > : > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
> > > :
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
07-23-2003, 12:52 PM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Rubicon: What do you think?
From what I've seen of the adverts, that's the whole idea.
"Lon Stowell" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:e7ScnQYHU9HQRICiXTWJhw@comcast.com...
>
> Wonder if the H2, aka GMC in butch nightgown, is being confused
> with the original HumVee.
>
> Billy Tolcher wrote:
>
> > Must less than 94000.. aren't they? I thought they were like.. $55k
> >
> >
> > "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >> Saw an H2 for the first time on Saturday. Boy is that a strange
vehicle. I
> >> especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the
> > corners.
> >> I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the
Tonka
> >> toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I
> > cant
> >> see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have
a
> >> Range Rover for less...
> >>
> >> Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >>
> >> "Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >> news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
> >> : Jeff Olsen wrote:
> >> :
> >> : > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a
> > Trak-lok
> >> : > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go.
> > Much
> >> : > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of
even a
> >> : > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
> >> :
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
"Lon Stowell" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:e7ScnQYHU9HQRICiXTWJhw@comcast.com...
>
> Wonder if the H2, aka GMC in butch nightgown, is being confused
> with the original HumVee.
>
> Billy Tolcher wrote:
>
> > Must less than 94000.. aren't they? I thought they were like.. $55k
> >
> >
> > "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> > news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >> Saw an H2 for the first time on Saturday. Boy is that a strange
vehicle. I
> >> especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the
> > corners.
> >> I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the
Tonka
> >> toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I
> > cant
> >> see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have
a
> >> Range Rover for less...
> >>
> >> Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
> >>
> >> "Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >> news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
> >> : Jeff Olsen wrote:
> >> :
> >> : > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a
> > Trak-lok
> >> : > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go.
> > Much
> >> : > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of
even a
> >> : > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
> >> :
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
07-23-2003, 05:07 PM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Rubicon: What do you think?
This one was 59,999 quid..
List price is allegedly 65,000 quid, which at todays exchange rate of 1.6073
would make it 104,474 !
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW...t=1&make=HUMME
R&min_pr=&postcode=b168xq&source=0&model=H2&max_pr =&sort=3&miles=1500&max_re
cords=50&search.x=35&search.y=8
--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Billy Tolcher" <btolcher@sc.xxxrr.com> wrote in message
news:47kTa.255723$nr.10757965@twister.southeast.rr .com...
: Must less than 94000.. aren't they? I thought they were like.. $55k
:
:
: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > Saw an H2 for the first time on Saturday. Boy is that a strange vehicle.
I
: > especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the
: corners.
: > I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the
Tonka
: > toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I
: cant
: > see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have
a
: > Range Rover for less...
: >
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
: > news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
: > : Jeff Olsen wrote:
: > :
: > : > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a
: Trak-lok
: > : > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go.
: Much
: > : > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of even
a
: > : > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
: > :
: >
: >
:
:
List price is allegedly 65,000 quid, which at todays exchange rate of 1.6073
would make it 104,474 !
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW...t=1&make=HUMME
R&min_pr=&postcode=b168xq&source=0&model=H2&max_pr =&sort=3&miles=1500&max_re
cords=50&search.x=35&search.y=8
--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Billy Tolcher" <btolcher@sc.xxxrr.com> wrote in message
news:47kTa.255723$nr.10757965@twister.southeast.rr .com...
: Must less than 94000.. aren't they? I thought they were like.. $55k
:
:
: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > Saw an H2 for the first time on Saturday. Boy is that a strange vehicle.
I
: > especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the
: corners.
: > I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the
Tonka
: > toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I
: cant
: > see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have
a
: > Range Rover for less...
: >
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
: > news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
: > : Jeff Olsen wrote:
: > :
: > : > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a
: Trak-lok
: > : > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go.
: Much
: > : > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of even
a
: > : > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
: > :
: >
: >
:
:
07-23-2003, 05:10 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Rubicon: What do you think?
No Lon, they are so completely different I couldn't imagine anyone making
that mistake.. Although I know of only 1 H1 in private hands in the UK, you
can see them on the tv every 5 minutes.
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW...t=1&make=HUMME
R&min_pr=&postcode=b168xq&source=0&model=H2&max_pr =&sort=3&miles=1500&max_re
cords=50&search.x=35&search.y=8
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Lon Stowell" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:e7ScnQYHU9HQRICiXTWJhw@comcast.com...
:
: Wonder if the H2, aka GMC in butch nightgown, is being confused
: with the original HumVee.
:
: Billy Tolcher wrote:
:
: > Must less than 94000.. aren't they? I thought they were like.. $55k
: >
: >
: > "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
: >> Saw an H2 for the first time on Saturday. Boy is that a strange
vehicle. I
: >> especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the
: > corners.
: >> I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the
Tonka
: >> toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I
: > cant
: >> see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have
a
: >> Range Rover for less...
: >>
: >> Dave Milne, Scotland
: >> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >>
: >> "Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
: >> news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
: >> : Jeff Olsen wrote:
: >> :
: >> : > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a
: > Trak-lok
: >> : > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go.
: > Much
: >> : > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of
even a
: >> : > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
: >> :
: >>
: >>
: >
: >
:
that mistake.. Although I know of only 1 H1 in private hands in the UK, you
can see them on the tv every 5 minutes.
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW...t=1&make=HUMME
R&min_pr=&postcode=b168xq&source=0&model=H2&max_pr =&sort=3&miles=1500&max_re
cords=50&search.x=35&search.y=8
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Lon Stowell" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:e7ScnQYHU9HQRICiXTWJhw@comcast.com...
:
: Wonder if the H2, aka GMC in butch nightgown, is being confused
: with the original HumVee.
:
: Billy Tolcher wrote:
:
: > Must less than 94000.. aren't they? I thought they were like.. $55k
: >
: >
: > "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: > news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
: >> Saw an H2 for the first time on Saturday. Boy is that a strange
vehicle. I
: >> especially "liked" the plastic bumper with the plastic fold at the
: > corners.
: >> I knew it looked like a Tonka toy, but that bumper wasn't up to the
Tonka
: >> toy standard ! It also looks like the control arms are cast. Anyhow, I
: > cant
: >> see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have
a
: >> Range Rover for less...
: >>
: >> Dave Milne, Scotland
: >> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >>
: >> "Big Daddy" <DontBother@nowhere.com> wrote in message
: >> news:3f19eeb2$0$73636$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
: >> : Jeff Olsen wrote:
: >> :
: >> : > That's not correct. Heck, my 3.07-geared Sport with 30's and a
: > Trak-lok
: >> : > will go places, easily, that my Nissan 4x4 pickup would never go.
: > Much
: >> : > less a Honda. You are grossly understating the capabilities of
even a
: >> : > stock TJ, much less a Rubi.
: >> :
: >>
: >>
: >
: >
:
07-23-2003, 05:27 PM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Rubicon: What do you think?
Dont think they are sold over here now. The most expensive I could find was
30K for a 3 year old one from a dealer.
--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Andy W" <ahwathome@hot.mail.com> wrote in message
news:bfmk6d$616$1@web.onecall.net...
: How much is a G-Wagen?
:
:
:
: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > Anyhow, I cant
: > see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have
a
: > Range Rover for less...
: >
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
:
:
30K for a 3 year old one from a dealer.
--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Andy W" <ahwathome@hot.mail.com> wrote in message
news:bfmk6d$616$1@web.onecall.net...
: How much is a G-Wagen?
:
:
:
: "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
: news:3eiTa.605$pA2.6428948@news-text.cableinet.net...
: > Anyhow, I cant
: > see many people shelling out $94,800 bucks for one when they could have
a
: > Range Rover for less...
: >
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
:
: