RIM SIZE FOR 2006 WRANGLER X
#201
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RIM SIZE FOR 2006 WRANGLER X
On Aug 27, 8:25 am, "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A correction,
> Caster angles should be positive (7 degrees), not negative.
>
> Ï "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> Ýãñáøå óôïìÞíõìánews:faudc7$e95$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
>
>
>
> >I have to remind you that the TJ has a coil sprung suspension with upper
> >and lower arms, which alter the pinion angle when it is raised - lowered,
> >unlike the leaf sprung suspensions which keep the pinion angle constant.
>
> > Raising 2" does create driveline vibes because the rear pinion is no
> > longer parallel to the transfer case output shaft.
> > You can chose to ignore them or may not notice they are there, but the
> > truth is that they exist.
> > I have seen TJ of friends of mine that said they didn't have any driveline
> > vibes after a 2" lift, but when I drove their rig I could feel the
> > difference. With a mismatch in pinion - output shaft angle, it feels like
> > the engine is running rough and they blame the engine or the exhaust. The
> > only way to convince them was to drop their thansfer case 1/2 inch and ask
> > them if they cound feel the difference, which they could.
>
> > Yes, the TJ has a double cardan joint in the transfer case front end,
> > which requires the pinion angle to be set almost parallel to the
> > driveshaft (0.5 degrees lower). You won't notice driveline vibes when in
> > 2wd mode though. But the front pinion angle also affects the front caster
> > angle.
> > By raising 2" in the TJ, the caster increases from -7 degrees to about -5.
> > The front pinion also gets 2 degrees higher than the driveshaft. By
> > re-adjusting the front pinion angle, you fix the caster angle also. When
> > the front pinion is adjusted properly, you loose only 0.3 degrees of
> > caster angle for the 2" lift compared to the factory caster setting.
>
> > Now I speak all this from personal experience on the exact same vehicleas
> > the O.P., as I have installed the same lift on my TJ and setting the
> > pinion angles was what made it to ride smooth like stock again.
>
> > About adding cargo and upsetting the rear driveline angle to create vibes,
> > this is what happens in the TJ.
> > There is a range that the pinion angle may be off, which doesn't create
> > noticeable vibes. The rear pinion is set to the upper side of this range.
> > When you load the TJ and the suspension its lower, the rear pinion will
> > operate to the lower side of the range, and you won't get any vibes. With
> > slight load, the pinion angle is at the center of the range and it feels
> > like running a bit smoother. But if you remove the hardtop and the rear
> > seat, which makes the suspension sit higher, you will notice driveline
> > vibes.
>
> > Bill Spiliotopoulos,
> > '96 XJ,
> > '06 TJ.
>
> > ? "Mike Romain" <roma...@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
> >news:46cedfd9$0$5203$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com...
> >> What 'are' you talking about?
>
> >> The front has a double cardan or CV joint already so needs 'no tweaking'
> >> at all even for a larger lift and a 2" is not going to change the rear
> >> enough to matter.
>
> >> You get that much/more change with a load on or off.
>
> >> By your reckoning if I put 4 people and gear in my Jeep, it won't drive
> >> because my height will be off by at least 2".
>
> >> Mike
> >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> >> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> >> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> >> Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
> >>>> 2.) With the 2" spacer lift, would I have to drop the t-case or do
> >>>> any other mods besides slapping it on?
>
> >>> Yes.
>
> >>> You have to turn the rear axle forward, so that the pinion axis is
> >>> almost parallel (a bit lower) to the transfer case output shaft. Or
> >>> drop the transfer case 1/2 inch. Turning the rear axle forward will cost
> >>> more if you have a shop do it for you (requires either adjustable lower
> >>> arms, or elongating the upper arms rear mounting holes and installingan
> >>> eccentric washer to set the pinion angle). You may not be sensitive
> >>> enough to feel the vibes, but even with 1 inch lift, the pinion angle
> >>> gets misaligned, increasing mechanical noise and u-joint wear.
>
> >>> You also MUST rotate the front axle towards the rear to make the pinion
> >>> axis parallel with the front driveshaft.
> >>> This will restore the caster angle to factory specification, which is
> >>> very important to limit the occurence of death wobble. The toe-in on
> >>> the front axle must be set after the pinion angle is set for the front
> >>> axle.
>
> >>> The 2" spacer lift and 31" M/T tire combination is a very good
> >>> combination. If you disconnect the front sway-bar the off-road
> >>> capability of your rig will be dramatically increased compared to what
> >>> it is right now. With the say-bar connected, your on-road behavior will
> >>> not be much affected.
> >>> This is a picture of a 2006 TJ with 2" spacer lift and 235R15 tires with
> >>> the swaay-bar disconnected.
> >>>http://alma-tech.com/tmp/tj_flex.jpg
>
> >>> But you must find a shop that is willing to deal with all the "minor"
> >>> details required to make the car run comfortable and safe as it was
> >>> prior to the lift (fine tune the pinion angles).
>
> >>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
> >>> '96 XJ
> >>> '06 TJ.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
So what you're saying is this:
I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
relocation bracket?
THANKS
> A correction,
> Caster angles should be positive (7 degrees), not negative.
>
> Ï "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> Ýãñáøå óôïìÞíõìánews:faudc7$e95$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
>
>
>
> >I have to remind you that the TJ has a coil sprung suspension with upper
> >and lower arms, which alter the pinion angle when it is raised - lowered,
> >unlike the leaf sprung suspensions which keep the pinion angle constant.
>
> > Raising 2" does create driveline vibes because the rear pinion is no
> > longer parallel to the transfer case output shaft.
> > You can chose to ignore them or may not notice they are there, but the
> > truth is that they exist.
> > I have seen TJ of friends of mine that said they didn't have any driveline
> > vibes after a 2" lift, but when I drove their rig I could feel the
> > difference. With a mismatch in pinion - output shaft angle, it feels like
> > the engine is running rough and they blame the engine or the exhaust. The
> > only way to convince them was to drop their thansfer case 1/2 inch and ask
> > them if they cound feel the difference, which they could.
>
> > Yes, the TJ has a double cardan joint in the transfer case front end,
> > which requires the pinion angle to be set almost parallel to the
> > driveshaft (0.5 degrees lower). You won't notice driveline vibes when in
> > 2wd mode though. But the front pinion angle also affects the front caster
> > angle.
> > By raising 2" in the TJ, the caster increases from -7 degrees to about -5.
> > The front pinion also gets 2 degrees higher than the driveshaft. By
> > re-adjusting the front pinion angle, you fix the caster angle also. When
> > the front pinion is adjusted properly, you loose only 0.3 degrees of
> > caster angle for the 2" lift compared to the factory caster setting.
>
> > Now I speak all this from personal experience on the exact same vehicleas
> > the O.P., as I have installed the same lift on my TJ and setting the
> > pinion angles was what made it to ride smooth like stock again.
>
> > About adding cargo and upsetting the rear driveline angle to create vibes,
> > this is what happens in the TJ.
> > There is a range that the pinion angle may be off, which doesn't create
> > noticeable vibes. The rear pinion is set to the upper side of this range.
> > When you load the TJ and the suspension its lower, the rear pinion will
> > operate to the lower side of the range, and you won't get any vibes. With
> > slight load, the pinion angle is at the center of the range and it feels
> > like running a bit smoother. But if you remove the hardtop and the rear
> > seat, which makes the suspension sit higher, you will notice driveline
> > vibes.
>
> > Bill Spiliotopoulos,
> > '96 XJ,
> > '06 TJ.
>
> > ? "Mike Romain" <roma...@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
> >news:46cedfd9$0$5203$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosti ng.com...
> >> What 'are' you talking about?
>
> >> The front has a double cardan or CV joint already so needs 'no tweaking'
> >> at all even for a larger lift and a 2" is not going to change the rear
> >> enough to matter.
>
> >> You get that much/more change with a load on or off.
>
> >> By your reckoning if I put 4 people and gear in my Jeep, it won't drive
> >> because my height will be off by at least 2".
>
> >> Mike
> >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> >> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> >> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> >> Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
> >>>> 2.) With the 2" spacer lift, would I have to drop the t-case or do
> >>>> any other mods besides slapping it on?
>
> >>> Yes.
>
> >>> You have to turn the rear axle forward, so that the pinion axis is
> >>> almost parallel (a bit lower) to the transfer case output shaft. Or
> >>> drop the transfer case 1/2 inch. Turning the rear axle forward will cost
> >>> more if you have a shop do it for you (requires either adjustable lower
> >>> arms, or elongating the upper arms rear mounting holes and installingan
> >>> eccentric washer to set the pinion angle). You may not be sensitive
> >>> enough to feel the vibes, but even with 1 inch lift, the pinion angle
> >>> gets misaligned, increasing mechanical noise and u-joint wear.
>
> >>> You also MUST rotate the front axle towards the rear to make the pinion
> >>> axis parallel with the front driveshaft.
> >>> This will restore the caster angle to factory specification, which is
> >>> very important to limit the occurence of death wobble. The toe-in on
> >>> the front axle must be set after the pinion angle is set for the front
> >>> axle.
>
> >>> The 2" spacer lift and 31" M/T tire combination is a very good
> >>> combination. If you disconnect the front sway-bar the off-road
> >>> capability of your rig will be dramatically increased compared to what
> >>> it is right now. With the say-bar connected, your on-road behavior will
> >>> not be much affected.
> >>> This is a picture of a 2006 TJ with 2" spacer lift and 235R15 tires with
> >>> the swaay-bar disconnected.
> >>>http://alma-tech.com/tmp/tj_flex.jpg
>
> >>> But you must find a shop that is willing to deal with all the "minor"
> >>> details required to make the car run comfortable and safe as it was
> >>> prior to the lift (fine tune the pinion angles).
>
> >>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
> >>> '96 XJ
> >>> '06 TJ.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
So what you're saying is this:
I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
relocation bracket?
THANKS
#202
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RIM SIZE FOR 2006 WRANGLER X
1) Insert spacers
2) Install new shocks
3) Adjust rear pinion, if necessary
4) Align (caster, toe)
5) Adjust draglink to straighten steering wheel
6) Drive until you save money for the 4.5" lift you really want.
No, with a 2" lift you do not need a FRONT or REAR Track bar relocation.
tw
Tracie wrote:
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
2) Install new shocks
3) Adjust rear pinion, if necessary
4) Align (caster, toe)
5) Adjust draglink to straighten steering wheel
6) Drive until you save money for the 4.5" lift you really want.
No, with a 2" lift you do not need a FRONT or REAR Track bar relocation.
tw
Tracie wrote:
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
#203
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RIM SIZE FOR 2006 WRANGLER X
1) Insert spacers
2) Install new shocks
3) Adjust rear pinion, if necessary
4) Align (caster, toe)
5) Adjust draglink to straighten steering wheel
6) Drive until you save money for the 4.5" lift you really want.
No, with a 2" lift you do not need a FRONT or REAR Track bar relocation.
tw
Tracie wrote:
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
2) Install new shocks
3) Adjust rear pinion, if necessary
4) Align (caster, toe)
5) Adjust draglink to straighten steering wheel
6) Drive until you save money for the 4.5" lift you really want.
No, with a 2" lift you do not need a FRONT or REAR Track bar relocation.
tw
Tracie wrote:
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
#204
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RIM SIZE FOR 2006 WRANGLER X
1) Insert spacers
2) Install new shocks
3) Adjust rear pinion, if necessary
4) Align (caster, toe)
5) Adjust draglink to straighten steering wheel
6) Drive until you save money for the 4.5" lift you really want.
No, with a 2" lift you do not need a FRONT or REAR Track bar relocation.
tw
Tracie wrote:
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
2) Install new shocks
3) Adjust rear pinion, if necessary
4) Align (caster, toe)
5) Adjust draglink to straighten steering wheel
6) Drive until you save money for the 4.5" lift you really want.
No, with a 2" lift you do not need a FRONT or REAR Track bar relocation.
tw
Tracie wrote:
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
#205
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RIM SIZE FOR 2006 WRANGLER X
1) Insert spacers
2) Install new shocks
3) Adjust rear pinion, if necessary
4) Align (caster, toe)
5) Adjust draglink to straighten steering wheel
6) Drive until you save money for the 4.5" lift you really want.
No, with a 2" lift you do not need a FRONT or REAR Track bar relocation.
tw
Tracie wrote:
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
2) Install new shocks
3) Adjust rear pinion, if necessary
4) Align (caster, toe)
5) Adjust draglink to straighten steering wheel
6) Drive until you save money for the 4.5" lift you really want.
No, with a 2" lift you do not need a FRONT or REAR Track bar relocation.
tw
Tracie wrote:
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
#206
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RIM SIZE FOR 2006 WRANGLER X
Tracie wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:25 am, "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A correction,
>> Caster angles should be positive (7 degrees), not negative.
>>
>> Ï "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìánews:faudc7$e95$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have to remind you that the TJ has a coil sprung suspension with upper
>>> and lower arms, which alter the pinion angle when it is raised - lowered,
>>> unlike the leaf sprung suspensions which keep the pinion angle constant.
>>> Raising 2" does create driveline vibes because the rear pinion is no
>>> longer parallel to the transfer case output shaft.
>>> You can chose to ignore them or may not notice they are there, but the
>>> truth is that they exist.
>>> I have seen TJ of friends of mine that said they didn't have any driveline
>>> vibes after a 2" lift, but when I drove their rig I could feel the
>>> difference. With a mismatch in pinion - output shaft angle, it feels like
>>> the engine is running rough and they blame the engine or the exhaust. The
>>> only way to convince them was to drop their thansfer case 1/2 inch and ask
>>> them if they cound feel the difference, which they could.
>>> Yes, the TJ has a double cardan joint in the transfer case front end,
>>> which requires the pinion angle to be set almost parallel to the
>>> driveshaft (0.5 degrees lower). You won't notice driveline vibes when in
>>> 2wd mode though. But the front pinion angle also affects the front caster
>>> angle.
>>> By raising 2" in the TJ, the caster increases from -7 degrees to about -5.
>>> The front pinion also gets 2 degrees higher than the driveshaft. By
>>> re-adjusting the front pinion angle, you fix the caster angle also. When
>>> the front pinion is adjusted properly, you loose only 0.3 degrees of
>>> caster angle for the 2" lift compared to the factory caster setting.
>>> Now I speak all this from personal experience on the exact same vehicle as
>>> the O.P., as I have installed the same lift on my TJ and setting the
>>> pinion angles was what made it to ride smooth like stock again.
>>> About adding cargo and upsetting the rear driveline angle to create vibes,
>>> this is what happens in the TJ.
>>> There is a range that the pinion angle may be off, which doesn't create
>>> noticeable vibes. The rear pinion is set to the upper side of this range.
>>> When you load the TJ and the suspension its lower, the rear pinion will
>>> operate to the lower side of the range, and you won't get any vibes. With
>>> slight load, the pinion angle is at the center of the range and it feels
>>> like running a bit smoother. But if you remove the hardtop and the rear
>>> seat, which makes the suspension sit higher, you will notice driveline
>>> vibes.
>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>> '96 XJ,
>>> '06 TJ.
>>> ? "Mike Romain" <roma...@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
>>> news:46cedfd9$0$5203$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>>> What 'are' you talking about?
>>>> The front has a double cardan or CV joint already so needs 'no tweaking'
>>>> at all even for a larger lift and a 2" is not going to change the rear
>>>> enough to matter.
>>>> You get that much/more change with a load on or off.
>>>> By your reckoning if I put 4 people and gear in my Jeep, it won't drive
>>>> because my height will be off by at least 2".
>>>> Mike
>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
>>>>>> 2.) With the 2" spacer lift, would I have to drop the t-case or do
>>>>>> any other mods besides slapping it on?
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>> You have to turn the rear axle forward, so that the pinion axis is
>>>>> almost parallel (a bit lower) to the transfer case output shaft. Or
>>>>> drop the transfer case 1/2 inch. Turning the rear axle forward will cost
>>>>> more if you have a shop do it for you (requires either adjustable lower
>>>>> arms, or elongating the upper arms rear mounting holes and installing an
>>>>> eccentric washer to set the pinion angle). You may not be sensitive
>>>>> enough to feel the vibes, but even with 1 inch lift, the pinion angle
>>>>> gets misaligned, increasing mechanical noise and u-joint wear.
>>>>> You also MUST rotate the front axle towards the rear to make the pinion
>>>>> axis parallel with the front driveshaft.
>>>>> This will restore the caster angle to factory specification, which is
>>>>> very important to limit the occurence of death wobble. The toe-in on
>>>>> the front axle must be set after the pinion angle is set for the front
>>>>> axle.
>>>>> The 2" spacer lift and 31" M/T tire combination is a very good
>>>>> combination. If you disconnect the front sway-bar the off-road
>>>>> capability of your rig will be dramatically increased compared to what
>>>>> it is right now. With the say-bar connected, your on-road behavior will
>>>>> not be much affected.
>>>>> This is a picture of a 2006 TJ with 2" spacer lift and 235R15 tires with
>>>>> the swaay-bar disconnected.
>>>>> http://alma-tech.com/tmp/tj_flex.jpg
>>>>> But you must find a shop that is willing to deal with all the "minor"
>>>>> details required to make the car run comfortable and safe as it was
>>>>> prior to the lift (fine tune the pinion angles).
>>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>>>> '96 XJ
>>>>> '06 TJ.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
You keep trying to push the envelope with your lift choices. 2.5" is
getting up there as Bill points out quite well.
I think a smaller spacer and a body lift will be a lot less trouble and
give you the same overall look.
Once you get over 2" with 'suspension' lift, you are looking at
relocating 'both' track bars to center the wheels back under the Jeep
and adjustable control arms to set the pinion angles back right.
Mike
> On Aug 27, 8:25 am, "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A correction,
>> Caster angles should be positive (7 degrees), not negative.
>>
>> Ï "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìánews:faudc7$e95$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have to remind you that the TJ has a coil sprung suspension with upper
>>> and lower arms, which alter the pinion angle when it is raised - lowered,
>>> unlike the leaf sprung suspensions which keep the pinion angle constant.
>>> Raising 2" does create driveline vibes because the rear pinion is no
>>> longer parallel to the transfer case output shaft.
>>> You can chose to ignore them or may not notice they are there, but the
>>> truth is that they exist.
>>> I have seen TJ of friends of mine that said they didn't have any driveline
>>> vibes after a 2" lift, but when I drove their rig I could feel the
>>> difference. With a mismatch in pinion - output shaft angle, it feels like
>>> the engine is running rough and they blame the engine or the exhaust. The
>>> only way to convince them was to drop their thansfer case 1/2 inch and ask
>>> them if they cound feel the difference, which they could.
>>> Yes, the TJ has a double cardan joint in the transfer case front end,
>>> which requires the pinion angle to be set almost parallel to the
>>> driveshaft (0.5 degrees lower). You won't notice driveline vibes when in
>>> 2wd mode though. But the front pinion angle also affects the front caster
>>> angle.
>>> By raising 2" in the TJ, the caster increases from -7 degrees to about -5.
>>> The front pinion also gets 2 degrees higher than the driveshaft. By
>>> re-adjusting the front pinion angle, you fix the caster angle also. When
>>> the front pinion is adjusted properly, you loose only 0.3 degrees of
>>> caster angle for the 2" lift compared to the factory caster setting.
>>> Now I speak all this from personal experience on the exact same vehicle as
>>> the O.P., as I have installed the same lift on my TJ and setting the
>>> pinion angles was what made it to ride smooth like stock again.
>>> About adding cargo and upsetting the rear driveline angle to create vibes,
>>> this is what happens in the TJ.
>>> There is a range that the pinion angle may be off, which doesn't create
>>> noticeable vibes. The rear pinion is set to the upper side of this range.
>>> When you load the TJ and the suspension its lower, the rear pinion will
>>> operate to the lower side of the range, and you won't get any vibes. With
>>> slight load, the pinion angle is at the center of the range and it feels
>>> like running a bit smoother. But if you remove the hardtop and the rear
>>> seat, which makes the suspension sit higher, you will notice driveline
>>> vibes.
>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>> '96 XJ,
>>> '06 TJ.
>>> ? "Mike Romain" <roma...@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
>>> news:46cedfd9$0$5203$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>>> What 'are' you talking about?
>>>> The front has a double cardan or CV joint already so needs 'no tweaking'
>>>> at all even for a larger lift and a 2" is not going to change the rear
>>>> enough to matter.
>>>> You get that much/more change with a load on or off.
>>>> By your reckoning if I put 4 people and gear in my Jeep, it won't drive
>>>> because my height will be off by at least 2".
>>>> Mike
>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
>>>>>> 2.) With the 2" spacer lift, would I have to drop the t-case or do
>>>>>> any other mods besides slapping it on?
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>> You have to turn the rear axle forward, so that the pinion axis is
>>>>> almost parallel (a bit lower) to the transfer case output shaft. Or
>>>>> drop the transfer case 1/2 inch. Turning the rear axle forward will cost
>>>>> more if you have a shop do it for you (requires either adjustable lower
>>>>> arms, or elongating the upper arms rear mounting holes and installing an
>>>>> eccentric washer to set the pinion angle). You may not be sensitive
>>>>> enough to feel the vibes, but even with 1 inch lift, the pinion angle
>>>>> gets misaligned, increasing mechanical noise and u-joint wear.
>>>>> You also MUST rotate the front axle towards the rear to make the pinion
>>>>> axis parallel with the front driveshaft.
>>>>> This will restore the caster angle to factory specification, which is
>>>>> very important to limit the occurence of death wobble. The toe-in on
>>>>> the front axle must be set after the pinion angle is set for the front
>>>>> axle.
>>>>> The 2" spacer lift and 31" M/T tire combination is a very good
>>>>> combination. If you disconnect the front sway-bar the off-road
>>>>> capability of your rig will be dramatically increased compared to what
>>>>> it is right now. With the say-bar connected, your on-road behavior will
>>>>> not be much affected.
>>>>> This is a picture of a 2006 TJ with 2" spacer lift and 235R15 tires with
>>>>> the swaay-bar disconnected.
>>>>> http://alma-tech.com/tmp/tj_flex.jpg
>>>>> But you must find a shop that is willing to deal with all the "minor"
>>>>> details required to make the car run comfortable and safe as it was
>>>>> prior to the lift (fine tune the pinion angles).
>>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>>>> '96 XJ
>>>>> '06 TJ.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
You keep trying to push the envelope with your lift choices. 2.5" is
getting up there as Bill points out quite well.
I think a smaller spacer and a body lift will be a lot less trouble and
give you the same overall look.
Once you get over 2" with 'suspension' lift, you are looking at
relocating 'both' track bars to center the wheels back under the Jeep
and adjustable control arms to set the pinion angles back right.
Mike
#207
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RIM SIZE FOR 2006 WRANGLER X
Tracie wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:25 am, "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A correction,
>> Caster angles should be positive (7 degrees), not negative.
>>
>> Ï "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìánews:faudc7$e95$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have to remind you that the TJ has a coil sprung suspension with upper
>>> and lower arms, which alter the pinion angle when it is raised - lowered,
>>> unlike the leaf sprung suspensions which keep the pinion angle constant.
>>> Raising 2" does create driveline vibes because the rear pinion is no
>>> longer parallel to the transfer case output shaft.
>>> You can chose to ignore them or may not notice they are there, but the
>>> truth is that they exist.
>>> I have seen TJ of friends of mine that said they didn't have any driveline
>>> vibes after a 2" lift, but when I drove their rig I could feel the
>>> difference. With a mismatch in pinion - output shaft angle, it feels like
>>> the engine is running rough and they blame the engine or the exhaust. The
>>> only way to convince them was to drop their thansfer case 1/2 inch and ask
>>> them if they cound feel the difference, which they could.
>>> Yes, the TJ has a double cardan joint in the transfer case front end,
>>> which requires the pinion angle to be set almost parallel to the
>>> driveshaft (0.5 degrees lower). You won't notice driveline vibes when in
>>> 2wd mode though. But the front pinion angle also affects the front caster
>>> angle.
>>> By raising 2" in the TJ, the caster increases from -7 degrees to about -5.
>>> The front pinion also gets 2 degrees higher than the driveshaft. By
>>> re-adjusting the front pinion angle, you fix the caster angle also. When
>>> the front pinion is adjusted properly, you loose only 0.3 degrees of
>>> caster angle for the 2" lift compared to the factory caster setting.
>>> Now I speak all this from personal experience on the exact same vehicle as
>>> the O.P., as I have installed the same lift on my TJ and setting the
>>> pinion angles was what made it to ride smooth like stock again.
>>> About adding cargo and upsetting the rear driveline angle to create vibes,
>>> this is what happens in the TJ.
>>> There is a range that the pinion angle may be off, which doesn't create
>>> noticeable vibes. The rear pinion is set to the upper side of this range.
>>> When you load the TJ and the suspension its lower, the rear pinion will
>>> operate to the lower side of the range, and you won't get any vibes. With
>>> slight load, the pinion angle is at the center of the range and it feels
>>> like running a bit smoother. But if you remove the hardtop and the rear
>>> seat, which makes the suspension sit higher, you will notice driveline
>>> vibes.
>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>> '96 XJ,
>>> '06 TJ.
>>> ? "Mike Romain" <roma...@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
>>> news:46cedfd9$0$5203$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>>> What 'are' you talking about?
>>>> The front has a double cardan or CV joint already so needs 'no tweaking'
>>>> at all even for a larger lift and a 2" is not going to change the rear
>>>> enough to matter.
>>>> You get that much/more change with a load on or off.
>>>> By your reckoning if I put 4 people and gear in my Jeep, it won't drive
>>>> because my height will be off by at least 2".
>>>> Mike
>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
>>>>>> 2.) With the 2" spacer lift, would I have to drop the t-case or do
>>>>>> any other mods besides slapping it on?
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>> You have to turn the rear axle forward, so that the pinion axis is
>>>>> almost parallel (a bit lower) to the transfer case output shaft. Or
>>>>> drop the transfer case 1/2 inch. Turning the rear axle forward will cost
>>>>> more if you have a shop do it for you (requires either adjustable lower
>>>>> arms, or elongating the upper arms rear mounting holes and installing an
>>>>> eccentric washer to set the pinion angle). You may not be sensitive
>>>>> enough to feel the vibes, but even with 1 inch lift, the pinion angle
>>>>> gets misaligned, increasing mechanical noise and u-joint wear.
>>>>> You also MUST rotate the front axle towards the rear to make the pinion
>>>>> axis parallel with the front driveshaft.
>>>>> This will restore the caster angle to factory specification, which is
>>>>> very important to limit the occurence of death wobble. The toe-in on
>>>>> the front axle must be set after the pinion angle is set for the front
>>>>> axle.
>>>>> The 2" spacer lift and 31" M/T tire combination is a very good
>>>>> combination. If you disconnect the front sway-bar the off-road
>>>>> capability of your rig will be dramatically increased compared to what
>>>>> it is right now. With the say-bar connected, your on-road behavior will
>>>>> not be much affected.
>>>>> This is a picture of a 2006 TJ with 2" spacer lift and 235R15 tires with
>>>>> the swaay-bar disconnected.
>>>>> http://alma-tech.com/tmp/tj_flex.jpg
>>>>> But you must find a shop that is willing to deal with all the "minor"
>>>>> details required to make the car run comfortable and safe as it was
>>>>> prior to the lift (fine tune the pinion angles).
>>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>>>> '96 XJ
>>>>> '06 TJ.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
You keep trying to push the envelope with your lift choices. 2.5" is
getting up there as Bill points out quite well.
I think a smaller spacer and a body lift will be a lot less trouble and
give you the same overall look.
Once you get over 2" with 'suspension' lift, you are looking at
relocating 'both' track bars to center the wheels back under the Jeep
and adjustable control arms to set the pinion angles back right.
Mike
> On Aug 27, 8:25 am, "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A correction,
>> Caster angles should be positive (7 degrees), not negative.
>>
>> Ï "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìánews:faudc7$e95$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have to remind you that the TJ has a coil sprung suspension with upper
>>> and lower arms, which alter the pinion angle when it is raised - lowered,
>>> unlike the leaf sprung suspensions which keep the pinion angle constant.
>>> Raising 2" does create driveline vibes because the rear pinion is no
>>> longer parallel to the transfer case output shaft.
>>> You can chose to ignore them or may not notice they are there, but the
>>> truth is that they exist.
>>> I have seen TJ of friends of mine that said they didn't have any driveline
>>> vibes after a 2" lift, but when I drove their rig I could feel the
>>> difference. With a mismatch in pinion - output shaft angle, it feels like
>>> the engine is running rough and they blame the engine or the exhaust. The
>>> only way to convince them was to drop their thansfer case 1/2 inch and ask
>>> them if they cound feel the difference, which they could.
>>> Yes, the TJ has a double cardan joint in the transfer case front end,
>>> which requires the pinion angle to be set almost parallel to the
>>> driveshaft (0.5 degrees lower). You won't notice driveline vibes when in
>>> 2wd mode though. But the front pinion angle also affects the front caster
>>> angle.
>>> By raising 2" in the TJ, the caster increases from -7 degrees to about -5.
>>> The front pinion also gets 2 degrees higher than the driveshaft. By
>>> re-adjusting the front pinion angle, you fix the caster angle also. When
>>> the front pinion is adjusted properly, you loose only 0.3 degrees of
>>> caster angle for the 2" lift compared to the factory caster setting.
>>> Now I speak all this from personal experience on the exact same vehicle as
>>> the O.P., as I have installed the same lift on my TJ and setting the
>>> pinion angles was what made it to ride smooth like stock again.
>>> About adding cargo and upsetting the rear driveline angle to create vibes,
>>> this is what happens in the TJ.
>>> There is a range that the pinion angle may be off, which doesn't create
>>> noticeable vibes. The rear pinion is set to the upper side of this range.
>>> When you load the TJ and the suspension its lower, the rear pinion will
>>> operate to the lower side of the range, and you won't get any vibes. With
>>> slight load, the pinion angle is at the center of the range and it feels
>>> like running a bit smoother. But if you remove the hardtop and the rear
>>> seat, which makes the suspension sit higher, you will notice driveline
>>> vibes.
>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>> '96 XJ,
>>> '06 TJ.
>>> ? "Mike Romain" <roma...@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
>>> news:46cedfd9$0$5203$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>>> What 'are' you talking about?
>>>> The front has a double cardan or CV joint already so needs 'no tweaking'
>>>> at all even for a larger lift and a 2" is not going to change the rear
>>>> enough to matter.
>>>> You get that much/more change with a load on or off.
>>>> By your reckoning if I put 4 people and gear in my Jeep, it won't drive
>>>> because my height will be off by at least 2".
>>>> Mike
>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
>>>>>> 2.) With the 2" spacer lift, would I have to drop the t-case or do
>>>>>> any other mods besides slapping it on?
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>> You have to turn the rear axle forward, so that the pinion axis is
>>>>> almost parallel (a bit lower) to the transfer case output shaft. Or
>>>>> drop the transfer case 1/2 inch. Turning the rear axle forward will cost
>>>>> more if you have a shop do it for you (requires either adjustable lower
>>>>> arms, or elongating the upper arms rear mounting holes and installing an
>>>>> eccentric washer to set the pinion angle). You may not be sensitive
>>>>> enough to feel the vibes, but even with 1 inch lift, the pinion angle
>>>>> gets misaligned, increasing mechanical noise and u-joint wear.
>>>>> You also MUST rotate the front axle towards the rear to make the pinion
>>>>> axis parallel with the front driveshaft.
>>>>> This will restore the caster angle to factory specification, which is
>>>>> very important to limit the occurence of death wobble. The toe-in on
>>>>> the front axle must be set after the pinion angle is set for the front
>>>>> axle.
>>>>> The 2" spacer lift and 31" M/T tire combination is a very good
>>>>> combination. If you disconnect the front sway-bar the off-road
>>>>> capability of your rig will be dramatically increased compared to what
>>>>> it is right now. With the say-bar connected, your on-road behavior will
>>>>> not be much affected.
>>>>> This is a picture of a 2006 TJ with 2" spacer lift and 235R15 tires with
>>>>> the swaay-bar disconnected.
>>>>> http://alma-tech.com/tmp/tj_flex.jpg
>>>>> But you must find a shop that is willing to deal with all the "minor"
>>>>> details required to make the car run comfortable and safe as it was
>>>>> prior to the lift (fine tune the pinion angles).
>>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>>>> '96 XJ
>>>>> '06 TJ.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
You keep trying to push the envelope with your lift choices. 2.5" is
getting up there as Bill points out quite well.
I think a smaller spacer and a body lift will be a lot less trouble and
give you the same overall look.
Once you get over 2" with 'suspension' lift, you are looking at
relocating 'both' track bars to center the wheels back under the Jeep
and adjustable control arms to set the pinion angles back right.
Mike
#208
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RIM SIZE FOR 2006 WRANGLER X
Tracie wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:25 am, "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A correction,
>> Caster angles should be positive (7 degrees), not negative.
>>
>> Ï "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìánews:faudc7$e95$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have to remind you that the TJ has a coil sprung suspension with upper
>>> and lower arms, which alter the pinion angle when it is raised - lowered,
>>> unlike the leaf sprung suspensions which keep the pinion angle constant.
>>> Raising 2" does create driveline vibes because the rear pinion is no
>>> longer parallel to the transfer case output shaft.
>>> You can chose to ignore them or may not notice they are there, but the
>>> truth is that they exist.
>>> I have seen TJ of friends of mine that said they didn't have any driveline
>>> vibes after a 2" lift, but when I drove their rig I could feel the
>>> difference. With a mismatch in pinion - output shaft angle, it feels like
>>> the engine is running rough and they blame the engine or the exhaust. The
>>> only way to convince them was to drop their thansfer case 1/2 inch and ask
>>> them if they cound feel the difference, which they could.
>>> Yes, the TJ has a double cardan joint in the transfer case front end,
>>> which requires the pinion angle to be set almost parallel to the
>>> driveshaft (0.5 degrees lower). You won't notice driveline vibes when in
>>> 2wd mode though. But the front pinion angle also affects the front caster
>>> angle.
>>> By raising 2" in the TJ, the caster increases from -7 degrees to about -5.
>>> The front pinion also gets 2 degrees higher than the driveshaft. By
>>> re-adjusting the front pinion angle, you fix the caster angle also. When
>>> the front pinion is adjusted properly, you loose only 0.3 degrees of
>>> caster angle for the 2" lift compared to the factory caster setting.
>>> Now I speak all this from personal experience on the exact same vehicle as
>>> the O.P., as I have installed the same lift on my TJ and setting the
>>> pinion angles was what made it to ride smooth like stock again.
>>> About adding cargo and upsetting the rear driveline angle to create vibes,
>>> this is what happens in the TJ.
>>> There is a range that the pinion angle may be off, which doesn't create
>>> noticeable vibes. The rear pinion is set to the upper side of this range.
>>> When you load the TJ and the suspension its lower, the rear pinion will
>>> operate to the lower side of the range, and you won't get any vibes. With
>>> slight load, the pinion angle is at the center of the range and it feels
>>> like running a bit smoother. But if you remove the hardtop and the rear
>>> seat, which makes the suspension sit higher, you will notice driveline
>>> vibes.
>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>> '96 XJ,
>>> '06 TJ.
>>> ? "Mike Romain" <roma...@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
>>> news:46cedfd9$0$5203$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>>> What 'are' you talking about?
>>>> The front has a double cardan or CV joint already so needs 'no tweaking'
>>>> at all even for a larger lift and a 2" is not going to change the rear
>>>> enough to matter.
>>>> You get that much/more change with a load on or off.
>>>> By your reckoning if I put 4 people and gear in my Jeep, it won't drive
>>>> because my height will be off by at least 2".
>>>> Mike
>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
>>>>>> 2.) With the 2" spacer lift, would I have to drop the t-case or do
>>>>>> any other mods besides slapping it on?
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>> You have to turn the rear axle forward, so that the pinion axis is
>>>>> almost parallel (a bit lower) to the transfer case output shaft. Or
>>>>> drop the transfer case 1/2 inch. Turning the rear axle forward will cost
>>>>> more if you have a shop do it for you (requires either adjustable lower
>>>>> arms, or elongating the upper arms rear mounting holes and installing an
>>>>> eccentric washer to set the pinion angle). You may not be sensitive
>>>>> enough to feel the vibes, but even with 1 inch lift, the pinion angle
>>>>> gets misaligned, increasing mechanical noise and u-joint wear.
>>>>> You also MUST rotate the front axle towards the rear to make the pinion
>>>>> axis parallel with the front driveshaft.
>>>>> This will restore the caster angle to factory specification, which is
>>>>> very important to limit the occurence of death wobble. The toe-in on
>>>>> the front axle must be set after the pinion angle is set for the front
>>>>> axle.
>>>>> The 2" spacer lift and 31" M/T tire combination is a very good
>>>>> combination. If you disconnect the front sway-bar the off-road
>>>>> capability of your rig will be dramatically increased compared to what
>>>>> it is right now. With the say-bar connected, your on-road behavior will
>>>>> not be much affected.
>>>>> This is a picture of a 2006 TJ with 2" spacer lift and 235R15 tires with
>>>>> the swaay-bar disconnected.
>>>>> http://alma-tech.com/tmp/tj_flex.jpg
>>>>> But you must find a shop that is willing to deal with all the "minor"
>>>>> details required to make the car run comfortable and safe as it was
>>>>> prior to the lift (fine tune the pinion angles).
>>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>>>> '96 XJ
>>>>> '06 TJ.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
You keep trying to push the envelope with your lift choices. 2.5" is
getting up there as Bill points out quite well.
I think a smaller spacer and a body lift will be a lot less trouble and
give you the same overall look.
Once you get over 2" with 'suspension' lift, you are looking at
relocating 'both' track bars to center the wheels back under the Jeep
and adjustable control arms to set the pinion angles back right.
Mike
> On Aug 27, 8:25 am, "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A correction,
>> Caster angles should be positive (7 degrees), not negative.
>>
>> Ï "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìánews:faudc7$e95$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have to remind you that the TJ has a coil sprung suspension with upper
>>> and lower arms, which alter the pinion angle when it is raised - lowered,
>>> unlike the leaf sprung suspensions which keep the pinion angle constant.
>>> Raising 2" does create driveline vibes because the rear pinion is no
>>> longer parallel to the transfer case output shaft.
>>> You can chose to ignore them or may not notice they are there, but the
>>> truth is that they exist.
>>> I have seen TJ of friends of mine that said they didn't have any driveline
>>> vibes after a 2" lift, but when I drove their rig I could feel the
>>> difference. With a mismatch in pinion - output shaft angle, it feels like
>>> the engine is running rough and they blame the engine or the exhaust. The
>>> only way to convince them was to drop their thansfer case 1/2 inch and ask
>>> them if they cound feel the difference, which they could.
>>> Yes, the TJ has a double cardan joint in the transfer case front end,
>>> which requires the pinion angle to be set almost parallel to the
>>> driveshaft (0.5 degrees lower). You won't notice driveline vibes when in
>>> 2wd mode though. But the front pinion angle also affects the front caster
>>> angle.
>>> By raising 2" in the TJ, the caster increases from -7 degrees to about -5.
>>> The front pinion also gets 2 degrees higher than the driveshaft. By
>>> re-adjusting the front pinion angle, you fix the caster angle also. When
>>> the front pinion is adjusted properly, you loose only 0.3 degrees of
>>> caster angle for the 2" lift compared to the factory caster setting.
>>> Now I speak all this from personal experience on the exact same vehicle as
>>> the O.P., as I have installed the same lift on my TJ and setting the
>>> pinion angles was what made it to ride smooth like stock again.
>>> About adding cargo and upsetting the rear driveline angle to create vibes,
>>> this is what happens in the TJ.
>>> There is a range that the pinion angle may be off, which doesn't create
>>> noticeable vibes. The rear pinion is set to the upper side of this range.
>>> When you load the TJ and the suspension its lower, the rear pinion will
>>> operate to the lower side of the range, and you won't get any vibes. With
>>> slight load, the pinion angle is at the center of the range and it feels
>>> like running a bit smoother. But if you remove the hardtop and the rear
>>> seat, which makes the suspension sit higher, you will notice driveline
>>> vibes.
>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>> '96 XJ,
>>> '06 TJ.
>>> ? "Mike Romain" <roma...@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
>>> news:46cedfd9$0$5203$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>>> What 'are' you talking about?
>>>> The front has a double cardan or CV joint already so needs 'no tweaking'
>>>> at all even for a larger lift and a 2" is not going to change the rear
>>>> enough to matter.
>>>> You get that much/more change with a load on or off.
>>>> By your reckoning if I put 4 people and gear in my Jeep, it won't drive
>>>> because my height will be off by at least 2".
>>>> Mike
>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
>>>>>> 2.) With the 2" spacer lift, would I have to drop the t-case or do
>>>>>> any other mods besides slapping it on?
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>> You have to turn the rear axle forward, so that the pinion axis is
>>>>> almost parallel (a bit lower) to the transfer case output shaft. Or
>>>>> drop the transfer case 1/2 inch. Turning the rear axle forward will cost
>>>>> more if you have a shop do it for you (requires either adjustable lower
>>>>> arms, or elongating the upper arms rear mounting holes and installing an
>>>>> eccentric washer to set the pinion angle). You may not be sensitive
>>>>> enough to feel the vibes, but even with 1 inch lift, the pinion angle
>>>>> gets misaligned, increasing mechanical noise and u-joint wear.
>>>>> You also MUST rotate the front axle towards the rear to make the pinion
>>>>> axis parallel with the front driveshaft.
>>>>> This will restore the caster angle to factory specification, which is
>>>>> very important to limit the occurence of death wobble. The toe-in on
>>>>> the front axle must be set after the pinion angle is set for the front
>>>>> axle.
>>>>> The 2" spacer lift and 31" M/T tire combination is a very good
>>>>> combination. If you disconnect the front sway-bar the off-road
>>>>> capability of your rig will be dramatically increased compared to what
>>>>> it is right now. With the say-bar connected, your on-road behavior will
>>>>> not be much affected.
>>>>> This is a picture of a 2006 TJ with 2" spacer lift and 235R15 tires with
>>>>> the swaay-bar disconnected.
>>>>> http://alma-tech.com/tmp/tj_flex.jpg
>>>>> But you must find a shop that is willing to deal with all the "minor"
>>>>> details required to make the car run comfortable and safe as it was
>>>>> prior to the lift (fine tune the pinion angles).
>>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>>>> '96 XJ
>>>>> '06 TJ.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
You keep trying to push the envelope with your lift choices. 2.5" is
getting up there as Bill points out quite well.
I think a smaller spacer and a body lift will be a lot less trouble and
give you the same overall look.
Once you get over 2" with 'suspension' lift, you are looking at
relocating 'both' track bars to center the wheels back under the Jeep
and adjustable control arms to set the pinion angles back right.
Mike
#209
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RIM SIZE FOR 2006 WRANGLER X
Tracie wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:25 am, "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A correction,
>> Caster angles should be positive (7 degrees), not negative.
>>
>> Ï "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìánews:faudc7$e95$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have to remind you that the TJ has a coil sprung suspension with upper
>>> and lower arms, which alter the pinion angle when it is raised - lowered,
>>> unlike the leaf sprung suspensions which keep the pinion angle constant.
>>> Raising 2" does create driveline vibes because the rear pinion is no
>>> longer parallel to the transfer case output shaft.
>>> You can chose to ignore them or may not notice they are there, but the
>>> truth is that they exist.
>>> I have seen TJ of friends of mine that said they didn't have any driveline
>>> vibes after a 2" lift, but when I drove their rig I could feel the
>>> difference. With a mismatch in pinion - output shaft angle, it feels like
>>> the engine is running rough and they blame the engine or the exhaust. The
>>> only way to convince them was to drop their thansfer case 1/2 inch and ask
>>> them if they cound feel the difference, which they could.
>>> Yes, the TJ has a double cardan joint in the transfer case front end,
>>> which requires the pinion angle to be set almost parallel to the
>>> driveshaft (0.5 degrees lower). You won't notice driveline vibes when in
>>> 2wd mode though. But the front pinion angle also affects the front caster
>>> angle.
>>> By raising 2" in the TJ, the caster increases from -7 degrees to about -5.
>>> The front pinion also gets 2 degrees higher than the driveshaft. By
>>> re-adjusting the front pinion angle, you fix the caster angle also. When
>>> the front pinion is adjusted properly, you loose only 0.3 degrees of
>>> caster angle for the 2" lift compared to the factory caster setting.
>>> Now I speak all this from personal experience on the exact same vehicle as
>>> the O.P., as I have installed the same lift on my TJ and setting the
>>> pinion angles was what made it to ride smooth like stock again.
>>> About adding cargo and upsetting the rear driveline angle to create vibes,
>>> this is what happens in the TJ.
>>> There is a range that the pinion angle may be off, which doesn't create
>>> noticeable vibes. The rear pinion is set to the upper side of this range.
>>> When you load the TJ and the suspension its lower, the rear pinion will
>>> operate to the lower side of the range, and you won't get any vibes. With
>>> slight load, the pinion angle is at the center of the range and it feels
>>> like running a bit smoother. But if you remove the hardtop and the rear
>>> seat, which makes the suspension sit higher, you will notice driveline
>>> vibes.
>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>> '96 XJ,
>>> '06 TJ.
>>> ? "Mike Romain" <roma...@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
>>> news:46cedfd9$0$5203$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>>> What 'are' you talking about?
>>>> The front has a double cardan or CV joint already so needs 'no tweaking'
>>>> at all even for a larger lift and a 2" is not going to change the rear
>>>> enough to matter.
>>>> You get that much/more change with a load on or off.
>>>> By your reckoning if I put 4 people and gear in my Jeep, it won't drive
>>>> because my height will be off by at least 2".
>>>> Mike
>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
>>>>>> 2.) With the 2" spacer lift, would I have to drop the t-case or do
>>>>>> any other mods besides slapping it on?
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>> You have to turn the rear axle forward, so that the pinion axis is
>>>>> almost parallel (a bit lower) to the transfer case output shaft. Or
>>>>> drop the transfer case 1/2 inch. Turning the rear axle forward will cost
>>>>> more if you have a shop do it for you (requires either adjustable lower
>>>>> arms, or elongating the upper arms rear mounting holes and installing an
>>>>> eccentric washer to set the pinion angle). You may not be sensitive
>>>>> enough to feel the vibes, but even with 1 inch lift, the pinion angle
>>>>> gets misaligned, increasing mechanical noise and u-joint wear.
>>>>> You also MUST rotate the front axle towards the rear to make the pinion
>>>>> axis parallel with the front driveshaft.
>>>>> This will restore the caster angle to factory specification, which is
>>>>> very important to limit the occurence of death wobble. The toe-in on
>>>>> the front axle must be set after the pinion angle is set for the front
>>>>> axle.
>>>>> The 2" spacer lift and 31" M/T tire combination is a very good
>>>>> combination. If you disconnect the front sway-bar the off-road
>>>>> capability of your rig will be dramatically increased compared to what
>>>>> it is right now. With the say-bar connected, your on-road behavior will
>>>>> not be much affected.
>>>>> This is a picture of a 2006 TJ with 2" spacer lift and 235R15 tires with
>>>>> the swaay-bar disconnected.
>>>>> http://alma-tech.com/tmp/tj_flex.jpg
>>>>> But you must find a shop that is willing to deal with all the "minor"
>>>>> details required to make the car run comfortable and safe as it was
>>>>> prior to the lift (fine tune the pinion angles).
>>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>>>> '96 XJ
>>>>> '06 TJ.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
You keep trying to push the envelope with your lift choices. 2.5" is
getting up there as Bill points out quite well.
I think a smaller spacer and a body lift will be a lot less trouble and
give you the same overall look.
Once you get over 2" with 'suspension' lift, you are looking at
relocating 'both' track bars to center the wheels back under the Jeep
and adjustable control arms to set the pinion angles back right.
Mike
> On Aug 27, 8:25 am, "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A correction,
>> Caster angles should be positive (7 degrees), not negative.
>>
>> Ï "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vsp...@yahoo.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìánews:faudc7$e95$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have to remind you that the TJ has a coil sprung suspension with upper
>>> and lower arms, which alter the pinion angle when it is raised - lowered,
>>> unlike the leaf sprung suspensions which keep the pinion angle constant.
>>> Raising 2" does create driveline vibes because the rear pinion is no
>>> longer parallel to the transfer case output shaft.
>>> You can chose to ignore them or may not notice they are there, but the
>>> truth is that they exist.
>>> I have seen TJ of friends of mine that said they didn't have any driveline
>>> vibes after a 2" lift, but when I drove their rig I could feel the
>>> difference. With a mismatch in pinion - output shaft angle, it feels like
>>> the engine is running rough and they blame the engine or the exhaust. The
>>> only way to convince them was to drop their thansfer case 1/2 inch and ask
>>> them if they cound feel the difference, which they could.
>>> Yes, the TJ has a double cardan joint in the transfer case front end,
>>> which requires the pinion angle to be set almost parallel to the
>>> driveshaft (0.5 degrees lower). You won't notice driveline vibes when in
>>> 2wd mode though. But the front pinion angle also affects the front caster
>>> angle.
>>> By raising 2" in the TJ, the caster increases from -7 degrees to about -5.
>>> The front pinion also gets 2 degrees higher than the driveshaft. By
>>> re-adjusting the front pinion angle, you fix the caster angle also. When
>>> the front pinion is adjusted properly, you loose only 0.3 degrees of
>>> caster angle for the 2" lift compared to the factory caster setting.
>>> Now I speak all this from personal experience on the exact same vehicle as
>>> the O.P., as I have installed the same lift on my TJ and setting the
>>> pinion angles was what made it to ride smooth like stock again.
>>> About adding cargo and upsetting the rear driveline angle to create vibes,
>>> this is what happens in the TJ.
>>> There is a range that the pinion angle may be off, which doesn't create
>>> noticeable vibes. The rear pinion is set to the upper side of this range.
>>> When you load the TJ and the suspension its lower, the rear pinion will
>>> operate to the lower side of the range, and you won't get any vibes. With
>>> slight load, the pinion angle is at the center of the range and it feels
>>> like running a bit smoother. But if you remove the hardtop and the rear
>>> seat, which makes the suspension sit higher, you will notice driveline
>>> vibes.
>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>> '96 XJ,
>>> '06 TJ.
>>> ? "Mike Romain" <roma...@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
>>> news:46cedfd9$0$5203$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>>> What 'are' you talking about?
>>>> The front has a double cardan or CV joint already so needs 'no tweaking'
>>>> at all even for a larger lift and a 2" is not going to change the rear
>>>> enough to matter.
>>>> You get that much/more change with a load on or off.
>>>> By your reckoning if I put 4 people and gear in my Jeep, it won't drive
>>>> because my height will be off by at least 2".
>>>> Mike
>>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
>>>>>> 2.) With the 2" spacer lift, would I have to drop the t-case or do
>>>>>> any other mods besides slapping it on?
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>> You have to turn the rear axle forward, so that the pinion axis is
>>>>> almost parallel (a bit lower) to the transfer case output shaft. Or
>>>>> drop the transfer case 1/2 inch. Turning the rear axle forward will cost
>>>>> more if you have a shop do it for you (requires either adjustable lower
>>>>> arms, or elongating the upper arms rear mounting holes and installing an
>>>>> eccentric washer to set the pinion angle). You may not be sensitive
>>>>> enough to feel the vibes, but even with 1 inch lift, the pinion angle
>>>>> gets misaligned, increasing mechanical noise and u-joint wear.
>>>>> You also MUST rotate the front axle towards the rear to make the pinion
>>>>> axis parallel with the front driveshaft.
>>>>> This will restore the caster angle to factory specification, which is
>>>>> very important to limit the occurence of death wobble. The toe-in on
>>>>> the front axle must be set after the pinion angle is set for the front
>>>>> axle.
>>>>> The 2" spacer lift and 31" M/T tire combination is a very good
>>>>> combination. If you disconnect the front sway-bar the off-road
>>>>> capability of your rig will be dramatically increased compared to what
>>>>> it is right now. With the say-bar connected, your on-road behavior will
>>>>> not be much affected.
>>>>> This is a picture of a 2006 TJ with 2" spacer lift and 235R15 tires with
>>>>> the swaay-bar disconnected.
>>>>> http://alma-tech.com/tmp/tj_flex.jpg
>>>>> But you must find a shop that is willing to deal with all the "minor"
>>>>> details required to make the car run comfortable and safe as it was
>>>>> prior to the lift (fine tune the pinion angles).
>>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>>>> '96 XJ
>>>>> '06 TJ.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> So what you're saying is this:
>
> I get a 2.25 inch spacer lift with new shocks
>
> When I do get this lift setup, I will have to do two things: a.) drop
> the transfer case 1/2 inch, and b.) readjust the FRONT pinion angle
> which in turn readjusts the caster angle.
>
> Will I have to adjust the REAR trackbar as well with a trackbar
> relocation bracket?
>
> THANKS
>
You keep trying to push the envelope with your lift choices. 2.5" is
getting up there as Bill points out quite well.
I think a smaller spacer and a body lift will be a lot less trouble and
give you the same overall look.
Once you get over 2" with 'suspension' lift, you are looking at
relocating 'both' track bars to center the wheels back under the Jeep
and adjustable control arms to set the pinion angles back right.
Mike
#210
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: RIM SIZE FOR 2006 WRANGLER X
Good points. The OP wants to go 2.5" also.
Mike
Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
> A correction,
> Caster angles should be positive (7 degrees), not negative.
>
> Ï "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vspili@yahoo.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
> news:faudc7$e95$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
>> I have to remind you that the TJ has a coil sprung suspension with upper
>> and lower arms, which alter the pinion angle when it is raised - lowered,
>> unlike the leaf sprung suspensions which keep the pinion angle constant.
>>
>> Raising 2" does create driveline vibes because the rear pinion is no
>> longer parallel to the transfer case output shaft.
>> You can chose to ignore them or may not notice they are there, but the
>> truth is that they exist.
>> I have seen TJ of friends of mine that said they didn't have any driveline
>> vibes after a 2" lift, but when I drove their rig I could feel the
>> difference. With a mismatch in pinion - output shaft angle, it feels like
>> the engine is running rough and they blame the engine or the exhaust. The
>> only way to convince them was to drop their thansfer case 1/2 inch and ask
>> them if they cound feel the difference, which they could.
>>
>> Yes, the TJ has a double cardan joint in the transfer case front end,
>> which requires the pinion angle to be set almost parallel to the
>> driveshaft (0.5 degrees lower). You won't notice driveline vibes when in
>> 2wd mode though. But the front pinion angle also affects the front caster
>> angle.
>> By raising 2" in the TJ, the caster increases from -7 degrees to about -5.
>> The front pinion also gets 2 degrees higher than the driveshaft. By
>> re-adjusting the front pinion angle, you fix the caster angle also. When
>> the front pinion is adjusted properly, you loose only 0.3 degrees of
>> caster angle for the 2" lift compared to the factory caster setting.
>>
>> Now I speak all this from personal experience on the exact same vehicle as
>> the O.P., as I have installed the same lift on my TJ and setting the
>> pinion angles was what made it to ride smooth like stock again.
>>
>> About adding cargo and upsetting the rear driveline angle to create vibes,
>> this is what happens in the TJ.
>> There is a range that the pinion angle may be off, which doesn't create
>> noticeable vibes. The rear pinion is set to the upper side of this range.
>> When you load the TJ and the suspension its lower, the rear pinion will
>> operate to the lower side of the range, and you won't get any vibes. With
>> slight load, the pinion angle is at the center of the range and it feels
>> like running a bit smoother. But if you remove the hardtop and the rear
>> seat, which makes the suspension sit higher, you will notice driveline
>> vibes.
>>
>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>> '96 XJ,
>> '06 TJ.
>>
>>
>> ? "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
>> news:46cedfd9$0$5203$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>> What 'are' you talking about?
>>>
>>> The front has a double cardan or CV joint already so needs 'no tweaking'
>>> at all even for a larger lift and a 2" is not going to change the rear
>>> enough to matter.
>>>
>>> You get that much/more change with a load on or off.
>>>
>>> By your reckoning if I put 4 people and gear in my Jeep, it won't drive
>>> because my height will be off by at least 2".
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
>>>>> 2.) With the 2" spacer lift, would I have to drop the t-case or do
>>>>> any other mods besides slapping it on?
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> You have to turn the rear axle forward, so that the pinion axis is
>>>> almost parallel (a bit lower) to the transfer case output shaft. Or
>>>> drop the transfer case 1/2 inch. Turning the rear axle forward will cost
>>>> more if you have a shop do it for you (requires either adjustable lower
>>>> arms, or elongating the upper arms rear mounting holes and installing an
>>>> eccentric washer to set the pinion angle). You may not be sensitive
>>>> enough to feel the vibes, but even with 1 inch lift, the pinion angle
>>>> gets misaligned, increasing mechanical noise and u-joint wear.
>>>>
>>>> You also MUST rotate the front axle towards the rear to make the pinion
>>>> axis parallel with the front driveshaft.
>>>> This will restore the caster angle to factory specification, which is
>>>> very important to limit the occurence of death wobble. The toe-in on
>>>> the front axle must be set after the pinion angle is set for the front
>>>> axle.
>>>>
>>>> The 2" spacer lift and 31" M/T tire combination is a very good
>>>> combination. If you disconnect the front sway-bar the off-road
>>>> capability of your rig will be dramatically increased compared to what
>>>> it is right now. With the say-bar connected, your on-road behavior will
>>>> not be much affected.
>>>> This is a picture of a 2006 TJ with 2" spacer lift and 235R15 tires with
>>>> the swaay-bar disconnected.
>>>> http://alma-tech.com/tmp/tj_flex.jpg
>>>>
>>>> But you must find a shop that is willing to deal with all the "minor"
>>>> details required to make the car run comfortable and safe as it was
>>>> prior to the lift (fine tune the pinion angles).
>>>>
>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>>> '96 XJ
>>>> '06 TJ.
>>
>
>
Mike
Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
> A correction,
> Caster angles should be positive (7 degrees), not negative.
>
> Ï "Bill Spiliotopoulos" <vspili@yahoo.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
> news:faudc7$e95$1@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr...
>> I have to remind you that the TJ has a coil sprung suspension with upper
>> and lower arms, which alter the pinion angle when it is raised - lowered,
>> unlike the leaf sprung suspensions which keep the pinion angle constant.
>>
>> Raising 2" does create driveline vibes because the rear pinion is no
>> longer parallel to the transfer case output shaft.
>> You can chose to ignore them or may not notice they are there, but the
>> truth is that they exist.
>> I have seen TJ of friends of mine that said they didn't have any driveline
>> vibes after a 2" lift, but when I drove their rig I could feel the
>> difference. With a mismatch in pinion - output shaft angle, it feels like
>> the engine is running rough and they blame the engine or the exhaust. The
>> only way to convince them was to drop their thansfer case 1/2 inch and ask
>> them if they cound feel the difference, which they could.
>>
>> Yes, the TJ has a double cardan joint in the transfer case front end,
>> which requires the pinion angle to be set almost parallel to the
>> driveshaft (0.5 degrees lower). You won't notice driveline vibes when in
>> 2wd mode though. But the front pinion angle also affects the front caster
>> angle.
>> By raising 2" in the TJ, the caster increases from -7 degrees to about -5.
>> The front pinion also gets 2 degrees higher than the driveshaft. By
>> re-adjusting the front pinion angle, you fix the caster angle also. When
>> the front pinion is adjusted properly, you loose only 0.3 degrees of
>> caster angle for the 2" lift compared to the factory caster setting.
>>
>> Now I speak all this from personal experience on the exact same vehicle as
>> the O.P., as I have installed the same lift on my TJ and setting the
>> pinion angles was what made it to ride smooth like stock again.
>>
>> About adding cargo and upsetting the rear driveline angle to create vibes,
>> this is what happens in the TJ.
>> There is a range that the pinion angle may be off, which doesn't create
>> noticeable vibes. The rear pinion is set to the upper side of this range.
>> When you load the TJ and the suspension its lower, the rear pinion will
>> operate to the lower side of the range, and you won't get any vibes. With
>> slight load, the pinion angle is at the center of the range and it feels
>> like running a bit smoother. But if you remove the hardtop and the rear
>> seat, which makes the suspension sit higher, you will notice driveline
>> vibes.
>>
>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>> '96 XJ,
>> '06 TJ.
>>
>>
>> ? "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> ?????? ??? ??????
>> news:46cedfd9$0$5203$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshostin g.com...
>>> What 'are' you talking about?
>>>
>>> The front has a double cardan or CV joint already so needs 'no tweaking'
>>> at all even for a larger lift and a 2" is not going to change the rear
>>> enough to matter.
>>>
>>> You get that much/more change with a load on or off.
>>>
>>> By your reckoning if I put 4 people and gear in my Jeep, it won't drive
>>> because my height will be off by at least 2".
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>>
>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos wrote:
>>>>> 2.) With the 2" spacer lift, would I have to drop the t-case or do
>>>>> any other mods besides slapping it on?
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> You have to turn the rear axle forward, so that the pinion axis is
>>>> almost parallel (a bit lower) to the transfer case output shaft. Or
>>>> drop the transfer case 1/2 inch. Turning the rear axle forward will cost
>>>> more if you have a shop do it for you (requires either adjustable lower
>>>> arms, or elongating the upper arms rear mounting holes and installing an
>>>> eccentric washer to set the pinion angle). You may not be sensitive
>>>> enough to feel the vibes, but even with 1 inch lift, the pinion angle
>>>> gets misaligned, increasing mechanical noise and u-joint wear.
>>>>
>>>> You also MUST rotate the front axle towards the rear to make the pinion
>>>> axis parallel with the front driveshaft.
>>>> This will restore the caster angle to factory specification, which is
>>>> very important to limit the occurence of death wobble. The toe-in on
>>>> the front axle must be set after the pinion angle is set for the front
>>>> axle.
>>>>
>>>> The 2" spacer lift and 31" M/T tire combination is a very good
>>>> combination. If you disconnect the front sway-bar the off-road
>>>> capability of your rig will be dramatically increased compared to what
>>>> it is right now. With the say-bar connected, your on-road behavior will
>>>> not be much affected.
>>>> This is a picture of a 2006 TJ with 2" spacer lift and 235R15 tires with
>>>> the swaay-bar disconnected.
>>>> http://alma-tech.com/tmp/tj_flex.jpg
>>>>
>>>> But you must find a shop that is willing to deal with all the "minor"
>>>> details required to make the car run comfortable and safe as it was
>>>> prior to the lift (fine tune the pinion angles).
>>>>
>>>> Bill Spiliotopoulos,
>>>> '96 XJ
>>>> '06 TJ.
>>
>
>