On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:24:11 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
<cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:

>My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
>negotiator and I enjoy it.

If you're skilled, you get a lot of extra money from them. Of course
you would enjoy that.

---
Bob

 

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:24:11 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
<cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:

>My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
>negotiator and I enjoy it.

If you're skilled, you get a lot of extra money from them. Of course
you would enjoy that.

---
Bob

 

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:24:11 -0600, "cactuscowboy"
<cactuscowboy@bresnan.net> wrote:

>My job requires that I negotiate price with customers. I'm a skilled
>negotiator and I enjoy it.

If you're skilled, you get a lot of extra money from them. Of course
you would enjoy that.

---
Bob

 

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:50:02 GMT, "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I remember (don't mean to run on with this) walking in to a furniture
>store - ya a furniture store! - and I SWEAR, every single salesperson in
>that place (12 or so) locked eyes with me and you could see them circling
>like sharks man. They would approach and I'd go the other way....they'd try
>to cut me off and I'd squeeze between some tables to go the other....
>then I'd put a dirty look on my face and try to fend them off with my shear
>will power (and the look of constipation) and althought they backed off...I
>think it was the Alpha's that still approached and sniffed me out!

Sounds like visiting a car dealership.

---
Bob

 

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:50:02 GMT, "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I remember (don't mean to run on with this) walking in to a furniture
>store - ya a furniture store! - and I SWEAR, every single salesperson in
>that place (12 or so) locked eyes with me and you could see them circling
>like sharks man. They would approach and I'd go the other way....they'd try
>to cut me off and I'd squeeze between some tables to go the other....
>then I'd put a dirty look on my face and try to fend them off with my shear
>will power (and the look of constipation) and althought they backed off...I
>think it was the Alpha's that still approached and sniffed me out!

Sounds like visiting a car dealership.

---
Bob

 

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:50:02 GMT, "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I remember (don't mean to run on with this) walking in to a furniture
>store - ya a furniture store! - and I SWEAR, every single salesperson in
>that place (12 or so) locked eyes with me and you could see them circling
>like sharks man. They would approach and I'd go the other way....they'd try
>to cut me off and I'd squeeze between some tables to go the other....
>then I'd put a dirty look on my face and try to fend them off with my shear
>will power (and the look of constipation) and althought they backed off...I
>think it was the Alpha's that still approached and sniffed me out!

Sounds like visiting a car dealership.

---
Bob

 

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:50:02 GMT, "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I remember (don't mean to run on with this) walking in to a furniture
>store - ya a furniture store! - and I SWEAR, every single salesperson in
>that place (12 or so) locked eyes with me and you could see them circling
>like sharks man. They would approach and I'd go the other way....they'd try
>to cut me off and I'd squeeze between some tables to go the other....
>then I'd put a dirty look on my face and try to fend them off with my shear
>will power (and the look of constipation) and althought they backed off...I
>think it was the Alpha's that still approached and sniffed me out!

Sounds like visiting a car dealership.

---
Bob

 

Oh, did I forget to mention that the sales manager laughed as I
left, he said that he was going to see if he could get me to
budge? Nope. He had to either make the deal or let me walk out
the door at 9:00PM when they closed. And my opening statement was
that I was going to either buy a new vehicle or tires for the old
one so I could leave town later that week. the sales manager was
just playing games. This was no rookie salesman, this was a sales
manger working for one one of the big auto dealer chains. I have
a hunch the sales rep was caught in the middle. Hard to tell

I had a bad experience with an a*******e who was planning on
giving someone a hard time. So be it. I got the vehicle at
exactly the price I intended, plus I use the dealer as a prime
example of sleazy car dealers EACH time I teach the class. What
goes around comes around.

I might add that the dealership changed owners quite shortly
thereafter.

As for the NADA books, you obviously know that the NADA yellow
book is used by loan officers, the Nada **BLUE** book is used by
Chrysler Credit. Guess which one has LOWER prices??

I could launch off into Lease agreements if you'd like. Would you
like to hear about the dealer who got an extemely nasty call from
the DMV about the handling of my off lease vehicle? Seems that
they did not process my title, kept the money. One of the
benefits of a dealer license is that you get to slide a bunch of
things on title transfer. But not remitting the tax money is not
one of them.

The root cause of the Leasing deal was that I had the guts to
plow all the way through the extemely fine print (light brown
type on yellow for easy reading!) on the back of the lease form
that provided me with a very nice loophole. $1600 difference
between the front and back of the form, money that the dealer did
not get. Ah shucks. Had to make 3 trips to do a simple transfer,
they still DELIBERATELY screwed it up. They played hardball, they
gave me a bill of sale, sorry that they didn't like the deal.

But the key thing is that I can take care of myself. I have a
couple of daughters that are fair game when they have to deal
with the stealerships. And that makes me MAD!!!

I might add that I had a nice deal with one of the big truck
dealers. I got treated like a commercial customer, in and out.
Piece of cake when they cut out the games.

cactuscowboy wrote:
> It sounds like you had a bad experience with a rookie salesman. "Losing"
> keys to hold customers captive is simply inexcusable. I'll be the first to
> admit that the auto industry has earned the bad reputation they suffer from.
>
> It's NADA. That's the 'book' that most lenders use, at least in this area.
> Kelley Blue Book is different. You can access the NADA consumer site and
> Kelley on the internet. There's also the "Black Book", but that's strictly
> wholesale values and available only to dealers, AFAIK. Funny thing about
> the three books, they never agree! Sometimes recent auction reports are a
> more accurate indicator of actual cash values. Add to the mix supply and
> demand in your local area. Suppose (for example) you're trading in a blue
> Dodge Intrepid and the dealer has 6 Intrepids on the lot, 4 of which are
> blue. He ideally would only stock only 1 or 2 used Intrepids for inventory,
> and blue is the slowest seller. Bummer! Don't be shocked if that dealer
> shows a trade allowance way back of book. The point is, establishing values
> on trade vehicles is rarely easy. That's not to say that your experience
> was routine. IMO, and based on your description, your 80 minute trade
> appraisal was poorly handled.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
> "Roy J" <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message
> news:I%xgc.17$aW2.23690@news.uswest.net...
>
>>Oh PLEEZEEE, give me a break! The last time I did a new vehicle
>>I walked in, asked if they would give me Bluebook wholesale for
>>my trade and the advertised price (last weeks paper) for a common
>>model with standard options. Cash for the difference, no
>>financing issues. They said sure.
>>
>>Then the fun began. For openers, the way they figured it and the
>>way I figure it were $2200 apart. I had to "show" them how to
>>read the Naad (SP?) Bluebook, you know you really do have to add
>>and subtract for condition, mileage, and options? The salesman
>>didn't seem to know. Then they took my trade out for a test
>>drive. When they came back, they 'LOST' my keys. Multiple trips
>>by the salesman to the Manger's office. Every trick in the book.
>>
>>Took an hour and twenty minutes to get the deal they agreed to in
>>the first 10 minutes. And $2200 difference in my net.
>>
>>I actually teach neogotiation skills. The above description was
>>NOT negotation, there was no exchange of information or
>>positions. It was strictly a case of the dealer trying to back
>>out on a previously agreed on deal. And of course, I happily use
>>this example in the classes I teach. Am I one of your "10%" that
>>complains all the time? No, only when I am forced to deal with
>>unethical people.
>>
>>For many people, buying a new car is similar to listening to
>>someone run their fingernails down the blackboard for several
>>hours. And the TV crews have a field day with hidden cams in the
>>finance office. Quit trying to defend yourself to this crew, you
>>won't get any sympathy.
>>
>>cactuscowboy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
>>>negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts".
>
> If
>
>>>that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As
>
> a
>
>>>salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind
>
> that
>
>>>negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a
>
> better
>
>>>price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't
>
> view
>
>>>negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
>>>It's not.
>>>
>>>There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price
>
> and
>
>>>showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some
>
> customers
>
>>>(very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all
>
> the
>
>>>money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll
>
> tell
>
>>>friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals.
>
> Did
>
>>>they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's
>
> all
>
>>>that really matters.
>>>
>>>In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
>>>relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
>>>(They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've
>
> sold
>
>>>my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers
>
> in
>
>>>the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
>>>friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all
>
> car
>
>>>dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are
>
> mad
>
>>>at world and unhappy in general.
>>>
>>>Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price".
>
> There
>
>>>are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model,
>
> how
>
>>>long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
>>>customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or
>
> bad
>
>>>credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........
>>>
>>>My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of
>
> an
>
>>>adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable.
>
> Also
>
>>>consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
>>>process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
>>>finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up,
>
> and
>
>>>delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the
>
> car
>
>>>dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer
>
> does
>
>>>a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious
>
> time",
>
>>>plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it
>
> appears
>
>>>in the newspaper.
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>Dave Rose
>>>Cactus Cowboy
>>>Big Wonderful Wyoming
>>>'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
>>>'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
>>>'98 XJ Sport
>>>O|||||||O
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
>>>news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
>>>
>>>Perhaps
>>>
>>>
>>>>>you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>>>>
>>>> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
>>>> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
>>>> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
>>>> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
>>>> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
>>>> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Where I work, we
>>>>>don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
>>>
>>>they're
>>>
>>>
>>>>>located.
>>>>
>>>> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
>>>> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
>>>> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
>>>> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
>>>> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
>>>> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
>>>> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
>>>> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
>>>> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
>>>> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
>>>> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
>>>> salesman pisses him off the least.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>>>>
>>>> It ain't always money.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions,
>
> I
>
>>>do
>>>
>>>
>>>>>all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
>>>
>>>friends
>>>
>>>
>>>>>and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
>>>
>>>community,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
>>>
>>>fair,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to
>
> the
>
>>>>>local Wyoming economy.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
>>>> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
>>>> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
>>>> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
>>>> in a hurry.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

 

Oh, did I forget to mention that the sales manager laughed as I
left, he said that he was going to see if he could get me to
budge? Nope. He had to either make the deal or let me walk out
the door at 9:00PM when they closed. And my opening statement was
that I was going to either buy a new vehicle or tires for the old
one so I could leave town later that week. the sales manager was
just playing games. This was no rookie salesman, this was a sales
manger working for one one of the big auto dealer chains. I have
a hunch the sales rep was caught in the middle. Hard to tell

I had a bad experience with an a*******e who was planning on
giving someone a hard time. So be it. I got the vehicle at
exactly the price I intended, plus I use the dealer as a prime
example of sleazy car dealers EACH time I teach the class. What
goes around comes around.

I might add that the dealership changed owners quite shortly
thereafter.

As for the NADA books, you obviously know that the NADA yellow
book is used by loan officers, the Nada **BLUE** book is used by
Chrysler Credit. Guess which one has LOWER prices??

I could launch off into Lease agreements if you'd like. Would you
like to hear about the dealer who got an extemely nasty call from
the DMV about the handling of my off lease vehicle? Seems that
they did not process my title, kept the money. One of the
benefits of a dealer license is that you get to slide a bunch of
things on title transfer. But not remitting the tax money is not
one of them.

The root cause of the Leasing deal was that I had the guts to
plow all the way through the extemely fine print (light brown
type on yellow for easy reading!) on the back of the lease form
that provided me with a very nice loophole. $1600 difference
between the front and back of the form, money that the dealer did
not get. Ah shucks. Had to make 3 trips to do a simple transfer,
they still DELIBERATELY screwed it up. They played hardball, they
gave me a bill of sale, sorry that they didn't like the deal.

But the key thing is that I can take care of myself. I have a
couple of daughters that are fair game when they have to deal
with the stealerships. And that makes me MAD!!!

I might add that I had a nice deal with one of the big truck
dealers. I got treated like a commercial customer, in and out.
Piece of cake when they cut out the games.

cactuscowboy wrote:
> It sounds like you had a bad experience with a rookie salesman. "Losing"
> keys to hold customers captive is simply inexcusable. I'll be the first to
> admit that the auto industry has earned the bad reputation they suffer from.
>
> It's NADA. That's the 'book' that most lenders use, at least in this area.
> Kelley Blue Book is different. You can access the NADA consumer site and
> Kelley on the internet. There's also the "Black Book", but that's strictly
> wholesale values and available only to dealers, AFAIK. Funny thing about
> the three books, they never agree! Sometimes recent auction reports are a
> more accurate indicator of actual cash values. Add to the mix supply and
> demand in your local area. Suppose (for example) you're trading in a blue
> Dodge Intrepid and the dealer has 6 Intrepids on the lot, 4 of which are
> blue. He ideally would only stock only 1 or 2 used Intrepids for inventory,
> and blue is the slowest seller. Bummer! Don't be shocked if that dealer
> shows a trade allowance way back of book. The point is, establishing values
> on trade vehicles is rarely easy. That's not to say that your experience
> was routine. IMO, and based on your description, your 80 minute trade
> appraisal was poorly handled.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
> "Roy J" <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message
> news:I%xgc.17$aW2.23690@news.uswest.net...
>
>>Oh PLEEZEEE, give me a break! The last time I did a new vehicle
>>I walked in, asked if they would give me Bluebook wholesale for
>>my trade and the advertised price (last weeks paper) for a common
>>model with standard options. Cash for the difference, no
>>financing issues. They said sure.
>>
>>Then the fun began. For openers, the way they figured it and the
>>way I figure it were $2200 apart. I had to "show" them how to
>>read the Naad (SP?) Bluebook, you know you really do have to add
>>and subtract for condition, mileage, and options? The salesman
>>didn't seem to know. Then they took my trade out for a test
>>drive. When they came back, they 'LOST' my keys. Multiple trips
>>by the salesman to the Manger's office. Every trick in the book.
>>
>>Took an hour and twenty minutes to get the deal they agreed to in
>>the first 10 minutes. And $2200 difference in my net.
>>
>>I actually teach neogotiation skills. The above description was
>>NOT negotation, there was no exchange of information or
>>positions. It was strictly a case of the dealer trying to back
>>out on a previously agreed on deal. And of course, I happily use
>>this example in the classes I teach. Am I one of your "10%" that
>>complains all the time? No, only when I am forced to deal with
>>unethical people.
>>
>>For many people, buying a new car is similar to listening to
>>someone run their fingernails down the blackboard for several
>>hours. And the TV crews have a field day with hidden cams in the
>>finance office. Quit trying to defend yourself to this crew, you
>>won't get any sympathy.
>>
>>cactuscowboy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
>>>negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts".
>
> If
>
>>>that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As
>
> a
>
>>>salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind
>
> that
>
>>>negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a
>
> better
>
>>>price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't
>
> view
>
>>>negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
>>>It's not.
>>>
>>>There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price
>
> and
>
>>>showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some
>
> customers
>
>>>(very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all
>
> the
>
>>>money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll
>
> tell
>
>>>friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals.
>
> Did
>
>>>they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's
>
> all
>
>>>that really matters.
>>>
>>>In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
>>>relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
>>>(They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've
>
> sold
>
>>>my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers
>
> in
>
>>>the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
>>>friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all
>
> car
>
>>>dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are
>
> mad
>
>>>at world and unhappy in general.
>>>
>>>Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price".
>
> There
>
>>>are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model,
>
> how
>
>>>long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
>>>customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or
>
> bad
>
>>>credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........
>>>
>>>My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of
>
> an
>
>>>adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable.
>
> Also
>
>>>consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
>>>process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
>>>finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up,
>
> and
>
>>>delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the
>
> car
>
>>>dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer
>
> does
>
>>>a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious
>
> time",
>
>>>plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it
>
> appears
>
>>>in the newspaper.
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>Dave Rose
>>>Cactus Cowboy
>>>Big Wonderful Wyoming
>>>'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
>>>'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
>>>'98 XJ Sport
>>>O|||||||O
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
>>>news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
>>>
>>>Perhaps
>>>
>>>
>>>>>you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>>>>
>>>> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
>>>> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
>>>> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
>>>> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
>>>> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
>>>> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Where I work, we
>>>>>don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
>>>
>>>they're
>>>
>>>
>>>>>located.
>>>>
>>>> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
>>>> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
>>>> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
>>>> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
>>>> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
>>>> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
>>>> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
>>>> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
>>>> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
>>>> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
>>>> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
>>>> salesman pisses him off the least.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>>>>
>>>> It ain't always money.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions,
>
> I
>
>>>do
>>>
>>>
>>>>>all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
>>>
>>>friends
>>>
>>>
>>>>>and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
>>>
>>>community,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
>>>
>>>fair,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to
>
> the
>
>>>>>local Wyoming economy.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
>>>> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
>>>> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
>>>> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
>>>> in a hurry.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

 

Oh, did I forget to mention that the sales manager laughed as I
left, he said that he was going to see if he could get me to
budge? Nope. He had to either make the deal or let me walk out
the door at 9:00PM when they closed. And my opening statement was
that I was going to either buy a new vehicle or tires for the old
one so I could leave town later that week. the sales manager was
just playing games. This was no rookie salesman, this was a sales
manger working for one one of the big auto dealer chains. I have
a hunch the sales rep was caught in the middle. Hard to tell

I had a bad experience with an a*******e who was planning on
giving someone a hard time. So be it. I got the vehicle at
exactly the price I intended, plus I use the dealer as a prime
example of sleazy car dealers EACH time I teach the class. What
goes around comes around.

I might add that the dealership changed owners quite shortly
thereafter.

As for the NADA books, you obviously know that the NADA yellow
book is used by loan officers, the Nada **BLUE** book is used by
Chrysler Credit. Guess which one has LOWER prices??

I could launch off into Lease agreements if you'd like. Would you
like to hear about the dealer who got an extemely nasty call from
the DMV about the handling of my off lease vehicle? Seems that
they did not process my title, kept the money. One of the
benefits of a dealer license is that you get to slide a bunch of
things on title transfer. But not remitting the tax money is not
one of them.

The root cause of the Leasing deal was that I had the guts to
plow all the way through the extemely fine print (light brown
type on yellow for easy reading!) on the back of the lease form
that provided me with a very nice loophole. $1600 difference
between the front and back of the form, money that the dealer did
not get. Ah shucks. Had to make 3 trips to do a simple transfer,
they still DELIBERATELY screwed it up. They played hardball, they
gave me a bill of sale, sorry that they didn't like the deal.

But the key thing is that I can take care of myself. I have a
couple of daughters that are fair game when they have to deal
with the stealerships. And that makes me MAD!!!

I might add that I had a nice deal with one of the big truck
dealers. I got treated like a commercial customer, in and out.
Piece of cake when they cut out the games.

cactuscowboy wrote:
> It sounds like you had a bad experience with a rookie salesman. "Losing"
> keys to hold customers captive is simply inexcusable. I'll be the first to
> admit that the auto industry has earned the bad reputation they suffer from.
>
> It's NADA. That's the 'book' that most lenders use, at least in this area.
> Kelley Blue Book is different. You can access the NADA consumer site and
> Kelley on the internet. There's also the "Black Book", but that's strictly
> wholesale values and available only to dealers, AFAIK. Funny thing about
> the three books, they never agree! Sometimes recent auction reports are a
> more accurate indicator of actual cash values. Add to the mix supply and
> demand in your local area. Suppose (for example) you're trading in a blue
> Dodge Intrepid and the dealer has 6 Intrepids on the lot, 4 of which are
> blue. He ideally would only stock only 1 or 2 used Intrepids for inventory,
> and blue is the slowest seller. Bummer! Don't be shocked if that dealer
> shows a trade allowance way back of book. The point is, establishing values
> on trade vehicles is rarely easy. That's not to say that your experience
> was routine. IMO, and based on your description, your 80 minute trade
> appraisal was poorly handled.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave Rose
> Cactus Cowboy
> Big Wonderful Wyoming
> '49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
> '62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
> '98 XJ Sport
> O|||||||O
>
> "Roy J" <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message
> news:I%xgc.17$aW2.23690@news.uswest.net...
>
>>Oh PLEEZEEE, give me a break! The last time I did a new vehicle
>>I walked in, asked if they would give me Bluebook wholesale for
>>my trade and the advertised price (last weeks paper) for a common
>>model with standard options. Cash for the difference, no
>>financing issues. They said sure.
>>
>>Then the fun began. For openers, the way they figured it and the
>>way I figure it were $2200 apart. I had to "show" them how to
>>read the Naad (SP?) Bluebook, you know you really do have to add
>>and subtract for condition, mileage, and options? The salesman
>>didn't seem to know. Then they took my trade out for a test
>>drive. When they came back, they 'LOST' my keys. Multiple trips
>>by the salesman to the Manger's office. Every trick in the book.
>>
>>Took an hour and twenty minutes to get the deal they agreed to in
>>the first 10 minutes. And $2200 difference in my net.
>>
>>I actually teach neogotiation skills. The above description was
>>NOT negotation, there was no exchange of information or
>>positions. It was strictly a case of the dealer trying to back
>>out on a previously agreed on deal. And of course, I happily use
>>this example in the classes I teach. Am I one of your "10%" that
>>complains all the time? No, only when I am forced to deal with
>>unethical people.
>>
>>For many people, buying a new car is similar to listening to
>>someone run their fingernails down the blackboard for several
>>hours. And the TV crews have a field day with hidden cams in the
>>finance office. Quit trying to defend yourself to this crew, you
>>won't get any sympathy.
>>
>>cactuscowboy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
>>>negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts".
>
> If
>
>>>that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As
>
> a
>
>>>salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind
>
> that
>
>>>negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a
>
> better
>
>>>price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't
>
> view
>
>>>negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
>>>It's not.
>>>
>>>There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price
>
> and
>
>>>showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some
>
> customers
>
>>>(very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all
>
> the
>
>>>money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll
>
> tell
>
>>>friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals.
>
> Did
>
>>>they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's
>
> all
>
>>>that really matters.
>>>
>>>In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
>>>relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
>>>(They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've
>
> sold
>
>>>my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers
>
> in
>
>>>the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
>>>friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all
>
> car
>
>>>dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are
>
> mad
>
>>>at world and unhappy in general.
>>>
>>>Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price".
>
> There
>
>>>are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model,
>
> how
>
>>>long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
>>>customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or
>
> bad
>
>>>credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........
>>>
>>>My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of
>
> an
>
>>>adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable.
>
> Also
>
>>>consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
>>>process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
>>>finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up,
>
> and
>
>>>delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the
>
> car
>
>>>dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer
>
> does
>
>>>a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious
>
> time",
>
>>>plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it
>
> appears
>
>>>in the newspaper.
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>Dave Rose
>>>Cactus Cowboy
>>>Big Wonderful Wyoming
>>>'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
>>>'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
>>>'98 XJ Sport
>>>O|||||||O
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
>>>news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
>>>
>>>Perhaps
>>>
>>>
>>>>>you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>>>>
>>>> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
>>>> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
>>>> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
>>>> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
>>>> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
>>>> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Where I work, we
>>>>>don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
>>>
>>>they're
>>>
>>>
>>>>>located.
>>>>
>>>> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
>>>> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
>>>> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
>>>> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
>>>> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
>>>> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
>>>> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
>>>> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
>>>> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
>>>> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
>>>> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
>>>> salesman pisses him off the least.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>>>>
>>>> It ain't always money.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions,
>
> I
>
>>>do
>>>
>>>
>>>>>all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
>>>
>>>friends
>>>
>>>
>>>>>and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
>>>
>>>community,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
>>>
>>>fair,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to
>
> the
>
>>>>>local Wyoming economy.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
>>>> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
>>>> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
>>>> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
>>>> in a hurry.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>