Matt,

I don't think you fully understand the automotive business. My "small local
shop" pays exactly the same invoice price that a huge "volume sales" dealer
does. Your Wal Mart analogy does not apply to automotive dealerships.

Also consider that frequently the overhead costs at a small town dealership
are much lower than those in large cities or at large volume dealerships.
That's why my employer, Fremont Motor Company in Powell, Wyoming, can
effectively compete with the largest of dealerships, e.g. Dave Smith Motors
in Kellogg, Idaho or stores in Billings, Salt Lake City, or Denver.

Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O

"Matt" <mhammer8@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3a3f4978.0404160635.36888e87@posting.google.c om...
> but I doubt the Red Carpet
> > will be extended to you in this situation. Understandable IMO.
> >
> > Dave
>
> It doesn't have much to do with a Red Carpet..it has to do with people
> sleazing out of tasks it's their job to do because they're jealous of
> your business, because they can't compete with volume dealers, etc.
> This is the same BS attitude that lazy, overpriced small local shops
> use to justify themselves against Wal-Marts and other volume sales
> places. Bottom line: find a way to compete. If I can find a
> substantial savings (minus time off, etc., like cactuscowboy said)
> online, I'll take it. And if my local dealer won't fix a product
> they're obliged to fix, that's what the Better Business Bureau and
> small claims court is for. Play hardball with these lazy, incompetent
> businessmen. Force them out if they can't compete in today's market.
>
> Just my 2c,
>
> Matt

 

But y'all gotta know....they play these games cuz there ARE those poor
bastards out there that get sucked in to it!

I bought my Jeep and didn't get the price I wanted for it....but I didn't
have a vehicle (walked everywhere) and had no way of getting to another
dealership. I went back a number of times getting prices. I think there
was a point that I showed up too many times or something and they weren't
sure whether to take me serious!

I showed up one night in a cab and told them that I had no way home...so I
wasn't leaving until I had my own ride! 5 hours later we came to an
agreement!

Ya, they did the, "let me go talk to the boss" routine (and we all know they
just go in there and talk about the kids and last nights hockey game -GO
LEAFS!)....I had my price in mind and they came within a couple hundred of
it...which was fine.
I told them they had to throw some "consumables" in for free....little
things, but that's what counts eh!

Overall it wasn't a bad experience. But they ARE all salesmen....they all
have a sleazy feel about them, I don't htink they can help it!! haha

In the end, it's like shopping at flea markets....it's only a good deal if
it feels like one! So if you walk away feeling ripped off, you won't be
happy with it!

sb

"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
> Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
> > I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
Perhaps
> > you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>
> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>
> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>
>
> > Where I work, we
> > don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
they're
> > located.
>
> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
> salesman pisses him off the least.
>
>
> > Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>
> It ain't always money.
> >
> > I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
do
> > all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
friends
> > and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
community,
> > giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
fair,
> > 4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
of
> > state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
> > local Wyoming economy.
>
> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
> in a hurry.
>
>
>
> --
> Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>

 

But y'all gotta know....they play these games cuz there ARE those poor
bastards out there that get sucked in to it!

I bought my Jeep and didn't get the price I wanted for it....but I didn't
have a vehicle (walked everywhere) and had no way of getting to another
dealership. I went back a number of times getting prices. I think there
was a point that I showed up too many times or something and they weren't
sure whether to take me serious!

I showed up one night in a cab and told them that I had no way home...so I
wasn't leaving until I had my own ride! 5 hours later we came to an
agreement!

Ya, they did the, "let me go talk to the boss" routine (and we all know they
just go in there and talk about the kids and last nights hockey game -GO
LEAFS!)....I had my price in mind and they came within a couple hundred of
it...which was fine.
I told them they had to throw some "consumables" in for free....little
things, but that's what counts eh!

Overall it wasn't a bad experience. But they ARE all salesmen....they all
have a sleazy feel about them, I don't htink they can help it!! haha

In the end, it's like shopping at flea markets....it's only a good deal if
it feels like one! So if you walk away feeling ripped off, you won't be
happy with it!

sb

"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
> Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
> > I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
Perhaps
> > you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>
> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>
> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>
>
> > Where I work, we
> > don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
they're
> > located.
>
> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
> salesman pisses him off the least.
>
>
> > Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>
> It ain't always money.
> >
> > I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
do
> > all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
friends
> > and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
community,
> > giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
fair,
> > 4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
of
> > state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
> > local Wyoming economy.
>
> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
> in a hurry.
>
>
>
> --
> Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>

 

But y'all gotta know....they play these games cuz there ARE those poor
bastards out there that get sucked in to it!

I bought my Jeep and didn't get the price I wanted for it....but I didn't
have a vehicle (walked everywhere) and had no way of getting to another
dealership. I went back a number of times getting prices. I think there
was a point that I showed up too many times or something and they weren't
sure whether to take me serious!

I showed up one night in a cab and told them that I had no way home...so I
wasn't leaving until I had my own ride! 5 hours later we came to an
agreement!

Ya, they did the, "let me go talk to the boss" routine (and we all know they
just go in there and talk about the kids and last nights hockey game -GO
LEAFS!)....I had my price in mind and they came within a couple hundred of
it...which was fine.
I told them they had to throw some "consumables" in for free....little
things, but that's what counts eh!

Overall it wasn't a bad experience. But they ARE all salesmen....they all
have a sleazy feel about them, I don't htink they can help it!! haha

In the end, it's like shopping at flea markets....it's only a good deal if
it feels like one! So if you walk away feeling ripped off, you won't be
happy with it!

sb

"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
> Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
> > I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
Perhaps
> > you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>
> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>
> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>
>
> > Where I work, we
> > don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
they're
> > located.
>
> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
> salesman pisses him off the least.
>
>
> > Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>
> It ain't always money.
> >
> > I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
do
> > all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
friends
> > and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
community,
> > giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
fair,
> > 4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
of
> > state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
> > local Wyoming economy.
>
> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
> in a hurry.
>
>
>
> --
> Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>

 

But y'all gotta know....they play these games cuz there ARE those poor
bastards out there that get sucked in to it!

I bought my Jeep and didn't get the price I wanted for it....but I didn't
have a vehicle (walked everywhere) and had no way of getting to another
dealership. I went back a number of times getting prices. I think there
was a point that I showed up too many times or something and they weren't
sure whether to take me serious!

I showed up one night in a cab and told them that I had no way home...so I
wasn't leaving until I had my own ride! 5 hours later we came to an
agreement!

Ya, they did the, "let me go talk to the boss" routine (and we all know they
just go in there and talk about the kids and last nights hockey game -GO
LEAFS!)....I had my price in mind and they came within a couple hundred of
it...which was fine.
I told them they had to throw some "consumables" in for free....little
things, but that's what counts eh!

Overall it wasn't a bad experience. But they ARE all salesmen....they all
have a sleazy feel about them, I don't htink they can help it!! haha

In the end, it's like shopping at flea markets....it's only a good deal if
it feels like one! So if you walk away feeling ripped off, you won't be
happy with it!

sb

"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
> Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
> > I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
Perhaps
> > you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>
> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>
> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>
>
> > Where I work, we
> > don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
they're
> > located.
>
> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
> salesman pisses him off the least.
>
>
> > Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>
> It ain't always money.
> >
> > I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
do
> > all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
friends
> > and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
community,
> > giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
fair,
> > 4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
of
> > state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
> > local Wyoming economy.
>
> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
> in a hurry.
>
>
>
> --
> Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>

 

It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
It's not.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some customers
(very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all the
money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll tell
friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals. Did
they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's all
that really matters.

In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
(They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've sold
my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers in
the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all car
dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are mad
at world and unhappy in general.

Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price". There
are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model, how
long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or bad
credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........

My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of an
adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable. Also
consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
in the newspaper.

Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O



"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
> Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
> > I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
Perhaps
> > you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>
> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>
> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>
>
> > Where I work, we
> > don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
they're
> > located.
>
> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
> salesman pisses him off the least.
>
>
> > Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>
> It ain't always money.
> >
> > I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
do
> > all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
friends
> > and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
community,
> > giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
fair,
> > 4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
of
> > state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
> > local Wyoming economy.
>
> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
> in a hurry.
>
>
>
> --
> Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>

 

It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
It's not.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some customers
(very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all the
money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll tell
friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals. Did
they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's all
that really matters.

In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
(They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've sold
my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers in
the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all car
dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are mad
at world and unhappy in general.

Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price". There
are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model, how
long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or bad
credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........

My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of an
adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable. Also
consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
in the newspaper.

Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O



"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
> Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
> > I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
Perhaps
> > you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>
> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>
> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>
>
> > Where I work, we
> > don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
they're
> > located.
>
> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
> salesman pisses him off the least.
>
>
> > Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>
> It ain't always money.
> >
> > I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
do
> > all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
friends
> > and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
community,
> > giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
fair,
> > 4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
of
> > state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
> > local Wyoming economy.
>
> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
> in a hurry.
>
>
>
> --
> Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>

 

It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
It's not.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some customers
(very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all the
money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll tell
friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals. Did
they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's all
that really matters.

In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
(They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've sold
my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers in
the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all car
dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are mad
at world and unhappy in general.

Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price". There
are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model, how
long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or bad
credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........

My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of an
adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable. Also
consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
in the newspaper.

Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O



"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
> Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
> > I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
Perhaps
> > you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>
> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>
> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>
>
> > Where I work, we
> > don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
they're
> > located.
>
> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
> salesman pisses him off the least.
>
>
> > Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>
> It ain't always money.
> >
> > I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
do
> > all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
friends
> > and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
community,
> > giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
fair,
> > 4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
of
> > state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
> > local Wyoming economy.
>
> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
> in a hurry.
>
>
>
> --
> Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>

 

It sounds like you prefer receiving a 'bottom dollar' price without
negotiation, or as you put it, "playing head games" & "childish stunts". If
that's what you want, simply ask for it the next time you car shop. As a
salesman, I'm perfectly happy to accomodate such demands. Keep in mind that
negotiation is a buying/selling skill and you're more likely to get a better
price by effectively negotiating versus demanding bottom dollar. Don't view
negotiating as confrontation, personal attacks, game playing, etc.....
It's not.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with any dealer asking full list price and
showing ACV on a trade. Don't ever take that as an insult. Some customers
(very few actually) will sign up and take delivery when asked for all the
money. Guess what? Those customers are by far the happiest! They'll tell
friends and family about the great deal they got and send us referrals. Did
they really get a great deal? Yes, in their minds they did, and that's all
that really matters.

In contrast, there are "ten percenters", the customers who negotiate
relentlessly until we're discounting below invoice, going into holdback.
(They actually will drive 300 miles to save $50 - I've seen it). I've sold
my share of ten percenters and they're usually the biggest complainers in
the service and parts department. Some will bitterly complain to their
friends and family about getting their "heads ripped off" and how all car
dealers are "crooks". In many cases, we're talking about people who are mad
at world and unhappy in general.

Buying vehicles is never a simple matter of getting the "best price". There
are many other factors such as supply and demand on a particular model, how
long the desired vehicle has been in the dealer's inventory, what the
customer is trading in, customers with negative equity in a trade and/or bad
credit, the car store's sales philosophy and style, etc........

My advice is to lighten up a bit the next time you buy. Having less of an
adversarial attitude will do much to make car shopping more enjoyable. Also
consider that a true sales professional will try to control the sales
process by following the basics: greeting, establish rapport, fact
finding/assess needs, presentation/walk around, demo drive, write up, and
delivery. Shortcutting that process is unfair to the customer and the car
dealer. Plan to spend 45 minutes, or longer if you buy and the dealer does
a spot delivery. If 45 minutes is too much to ask of your "precious time",
plan to walk in and write a check for an advertised special when it appears
in the newspaper.

Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O



"L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in message
news:du0gc.8345$aM4.20562@attbi_s53...
> Roughly 4/15/04 21:51, cactuscowboy's monkeys randomly typed:
>
> > I sell Jeeps. Did you really get a "better deal" 170 miles away?
Perhaps
> > you didn't negotiate properly with your local dealer?
>
> Some dealers are just more interested in playing head games than
> making money. I would drive 170 miles and pay *more* to make sure
> this type never accidentally makes as much as a penny from me.
>
> On the other hand, a dealershipt that does not insist on playing
> games or wasting my valuable time in "hang on, gotta go check with
> the manager" childish stunts can make extra money... my time is
> worth more than a few lousy dollars.
>
>
> > Where I work, we
> > don't lose deals over price to competing dealers, no matter where
they're
> > located.
>
> Note that I am not saying your dealership does this, but if I come
> there and get one price, then drive 170 miles and get a far better
> one, the odds of me wasting my valuable time coming back to you
> to see if you'll match or beat it are zero and none. If you offer
> the cheaper price only after I've found a better one, you have
> already kissed the deal goodbye by playing games. You can add
> an additional penalty factor if I've been getting my vehicle
> serviced at your dealership for the past couple years and then
> some salestype tries this on what would be presumed to be a
> reasonably loyal customer. Granted before I go to the front of
> a dealer I'll be very likely to ask the service writer which
> salesman pisses him off the least.
>
>
> > Was that factored into the alleged "better deal"?
>
> It ain't always money.
> >
> > I live in a small town in NW Wyoming. With very, very few exceptions, I
do
> > all of my shopping locally. It's important to me that I support my
friends
> > and neighbors and the local economy. My car store supports our
community,
> > giving generously to non-profit organizations, sponsoring the county
fair,
> > 4H programs, etc...... In contrast, residents here who spend money out
of
> > state (typically Billings, Montana) contribute absolutely NOTHING to the
> > local Wyoming economy.
>
> Yeah, I gotta agree there... a local dealer who treats folks right
> is worth extra money in my book. However if that dealer offers to
> beat an out of town offer only after I've wasted 300+ miles, they
> tend to get removed from the "treats loyal customers right" category
> in a hurry.
>
>
>
> --
> Evolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate
>

 

5 hours is far too long for negotiating. In the vast majority of my sales,
negotiating takes 10 minutes or less. That's how it should be.

Best regards,
Dave Rose
Cactus Cowboy
Big Wonderful Wyoming
'49 ****** Pickup (parts truck)
'62 ****** Pickup 4WD 226
'98 XJ Sport
O|||||||O

"SB" <chicbears@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4S9gc.168094$SQE.167329@news01.bloor.is.net.c able.rogers.com...
> But y'all gotta know....they play these games cuz there ARE those poor
> bastards out there that get sucked in to it!
>
> I bought my Jeep and didn't get the price I wanted for it....but I didn't
> have a vehicle (walked everywhere) and had no way of getting to another
> dealership. I went back a number of times getting prices. I think there
> was a point that I showed up too many times or something and they weren't
> sure whether to take me serious!
>
> I showed up one night in a cab and told them that I had no way home...so I
> wasn't leaving until I had my own ride! 5 hours later we came to an
> agreement!
>
> Ya, they did the, "let me go talk to the boss" routine (and we all know
they
> just go in there and talk about the kids and last nights hockey game -GO
> LEAFS!)....I had my price in mind and they came within a couple hundred of
> it...which was fine.
> I told them they had to throw some "consumables" in for free....little
> things, but that's what counts eh!
>
> Overall it wasn't a bad experience. But they ARE all salesmen....they all
> have a sleazy feel about them, I don't htink they can help it!! haha
>
> In the end, it's like shopping at flea markets....it's only a good deal if
> it feels like one! So if you walk away feeling ripped off, you won't be
> happy with it!
>
> sb