OT: Iraq
09-06-2003, 09:13 PM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Iraq
At some level, it doesn't matter what the government of Iraq is, or who
is running the oil fields. Iraqi oil will be sold on the world market,
where the US is the largest importer.
B
In article <Gf46b.417$w41.411@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>,
"curt" <h_curtis@verizon.net> wrote:
> " He said that 90% of the Iraqi people are glad the Americans are there."
>
> I would have to question this guys credibility. 90%? I must be reading the
> wrong media (around the world). Maybe he ment 10% and 90% would like us to
> leave so they can keep thier oil.
>
> Curt
>
>
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
is running the oil fields. Iraqi oil will be sold on the world market,
where the US is the largest importer.
B
In article <Gf46b.417$w41.411@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>,
"curt" <h_curtis@verizon.net> wrote:
> " He said that 90% of the Iraqi people are glad the Americans are there."
>
> I would have to question this guys credibility. 90%? I must be reading the
> wrong media (around the world). Maybe he ment 10% and 90% would like us to
> leave so they can keep thier oil.
>
> Curt
>
>
--
Brian Heller
It is easier to tame wild beasts
than to conquer the human mind.
09-07-2003, 11:27 AM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Iraq
If he nearly triples the accepted figure without any substantiating
evidence, then we must put all his information into a light of scepticism.
"Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:b102b6e4.0309061727.13e1fb2b@posting.google.c om...
> The 300k figure is from Slaughterhouse Five, Kurt Vonnegut's
> autobiographical account of the Dresden raid.
evidence, then we must put all his information into a light of scepticism.
"Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:b102b6e4.0309061727.13e1fb2b@posting.google.c om...
> The 300k figure is from Slaughterhouse Five, Kurt Vonnegut's
> autobiographical account of the Dresden raid.
09-07-2003, 11:27 AM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Iraq
If he nearly triples the accepted figure without any substantiating
evidence, then we must put all his information into a light of scepticism.
"Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:b102b6e4.0309061727.13e1fb2b@posting.google.c om...
> The 300k figure is from Slaughterhouse Five, Kurt Vonnegut's
> autobiographical account of the Dresden raid.
evidence, then we must put all his information into a light of scepticism.
"Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:b102b6e4.0309061727.13e1fb2b@posting.google.c om...
> The 300k figure is from Slaughterhouse Five, Kurt Vonnegut's
> autobiographical account of the Dresden raid.
09-07-2003, 11:40 AM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Iraq
There is no moral basis for killing a populace when there is absolutely no
reason at all to do it, and there are means to accomplish the mission
without collateral damage.
Germany had a vast war production effort... Iraq had no such production...
Dropping conventional devices on a chemical/bio plant would release the very
agents you were trying to contain. I think the conflict was well fought, and
did an exceptional job. I do, however have some disputes with the
occupation.
I agree completely, but I disagreed with comparisons of Iraq to ****
Germany.
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:gEs6b.2690$bk7.24965192@news-text.cableinet.net...
> Which brings us neatly back to the Mr Nelson's idea of inflicting it on
> the Iraqi people to get the extremists ; won't work (I think we both
agree)
> and morally wrong (possibly you disagree ?).
>
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:MIn6b.6512$cQ1.1854760@kent.svc.tds.net...
> I believe that it was an attempt to force the German
> : surrender... but madmen don't surrender.
>
>
reason at all to do it, and there are means to accomplish the mission
without collateral damage.
Germany had a vast war production effort... Iraq had no such production...
Dropping conventional devices on a chemical/bio plant would release the very
agents you were trying to contain. I think the conflict was well fought, and
did an exceptional job. I do, however have some disputes with the
occupation.
I agree completely, but I disagreed with comparisons of Iraq to ****
Germany.
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:gEs6b.2690$bk7.24965192@news-text.cableinet.net...
> Which brings us neatly back to the Mr Nelson's idea of inflicting it on
> the Iraqi people to get the extremists ; won't work (I think we both
agree)
> and morally wrong (possibly you disagree ?).
>
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:MIn6b.6512$cQ1.1854760@kent.svc.tds.net...
> I believe that it was an attempt to force the German
> : surrender... but madmen don't surrender.
>
>
09-07-2003, 11:40 AM
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Iraq
There is no moral basis for killing a populace when there is absolutely no
reason at all to do it, and there are means to accomplish the mission
without collateral damage.
Germany had a vast war production effort... Iraq had no such production...
Dropping conventional devices on a chemical/bio plant would release the very
agents you were trying to contain. I think the conflict was well fought, and
did an exceptional job. I do, however have some disputes with the
occupation.
I agree completely, but I disagreed with comparisons of Iraq to ****
Germany.
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:gEs6b.2690$bk7.24965192@news-text.cableinet.net...
> Which brings us neatly back to the Mr Nelson's idea of inflicting it on
> the Iraqi people to get the extremists ; won't work (I think we both
agree)
> and morally wrong (possibly you disagree ?).
>
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:MIn6b.6512$cQ1.1854760@kent.svc.tds.net...
> I believe that it was an attempt to force the German
> : surrender... but madmen don't surrender.
>
>
reason at all to do it, and there are means to accomplish the mission
without collateral damage.
Germany had a vast war production effort... Iraq had no such production...
Dropping conventional devices on a chemical/bio plant would release the very
agents you were trying to contain. I think the conflict was well fought, and
did an exceptional job. I do, however have some disputes with the
occupation.
I agree completely, but I disagreed with comparisons of Iraq to ****
Germany.
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:gEs6b.2690$bk7.24965192@news-text.cableinet.net...
> Which brings us neatly back to the Mr Nelson's idea of inflicting it on
> the Iraqi people to get the extremists ; won't work (I think we both
agree)
> and morally wrong (possibly you disagree ?).
>
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "A.H. MacIntosh aka USERNAME" <chesshire_cat@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:MIn6b.6512$cQ1.1854760@kent.svc.tds.net...
> I believe that it was an attempt to force the German
> : surrender... but madmen don't surrender.
>
>
09-08-2003, 09:42 AM
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Iraq
> Which brings us neatly back to the Mr Nelson's idea of inflicting it on
> the Iraqi people to get the extremists ; won't work (I think we both agree)
> and morally wrong (possibly you disagree ?).
>
Why not? Extremists need the sympathy of the local populace to
operate and move about. Right now the locals have no meaningful
reason to be afraid of helping the extremists... but they DO have
reason to be afraid of not helping the extremists. The muslim
terrorists are willing to kill them, we aren't. Once they learn that
we're more of a threat, --------- acts will subside dramatically.
Dave, you accuse me of being inhumane and in favor of killing. That's
not true. If the choice were between killing and not killing, I would
opt for not killing. But that's not the choice. The choice is
between muslims dying and Americans dying, and I will choose muslims
every time given that situation. It is also a choice between more
people dying vs. less people dying. If we take dramatic actions now
to nip this in the bud, the long term prospects for life in Iraq, the
entire middle east, and even the civilized western nations will be
better due to lower terrorism. (If we had mickey moused around like
this with **** Germany, there would likely still be underground ****
'Werewolf' cells killing people there today. I can appreciate the
horror of seeing your neighbor, most likely an innocent civilian, who
was burned in the Dresden raid, but you have to see the bigger
picture. That raid and other actions like it put an end to the evil
and madness that claimed millions of lives.)
I notice you hail from Ireland. As your country was not attacked on
9/11, it is therefore not terribly surprising that you have little
interest in rallying to America's defense in this war against the
muslims and extremists. Perhaps if America were to lose completely
and totally, and the influence of Bin Laden were to pervade the entire
middle east, it wouldn't even affect Ireland at all.. at least not in
the short run. All I can say in response to that is that you
Europeans need to be glad that America has not taken that attitude,
but instead has repeatedly come to your aid when the principles of
democracy and freedom were at stake. If America had had your attitude
in 1917 and again in World War II, you would be speaking German today.
Unless, of course, you have any jewish blood in you, in which case
you would not be here at all.
> the Iraqi people to get the extremists ; won't work (I think we both agree)
> and morally wrong (possibly you disagree ?).
>
Why not? Extremists need the sympathy of the local populace to
operate and move about. Right now the locals have no meaningful
reason to be afraid of helping the extremists... but they DO have
reason to be afraid of not helping the extremists. The muslim
terrorists are willing to kill them, we aren't. Once they learn that
we're more of a threat, --------- acts will subside dramatically.
Dave, you accuse me of being inhumane and in favor of killing. That's
not true. If the choice were between killing and not killing, I would
opt for not killing. But that's not the choice. The choice is
between muslims dying and Americans dying, and I will choose muslims
every time given that situation. It is also a choice between more
people dying vs. less people dying. If we take dramatic actions now
to nip this in the bud, the long term prospects for life in Iraq, the
entire middle east, and even the civilized western nations will be
better due to lower terrorism. (If we had mickey moused around like
this with **** Germany, there would likely still be underground ****
'Werewolf' cells killing people there today. I can appreciate the
horror of seeing your neighbor, most likely an innocent civilian, who
was burned in the Dresden raid, but you have to see the bigger
picture. That raid and other actions like it put an end to the evil
and madness that claimed millions of lives.)
I notice you hail from Ireland. As your country was not attacked on
9/11, it is therefore not terribly surprising that you have little
interest in rallying to America's defense in this war against the
muslims and extremists. Perhaps if America were to lose completely
and totally, and the influence of Bin Laden were to pervade the entire
middle east, it wouldn't even affect Ireland at all.. at least not in
the short run. All I can say in response to that is that you
Europeans need to be glad that America has not taken that attitude,
but instead has repeatedly come to your aid when the principles of
democracy and freedom were at stake. If America had had your attitude
in 1917 and again in World War II, you would be speaking German today.
Unless, of course, you have any jewish blood in you, in which case
you would not be here at all.
09-08-2003, 09:42 AM
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Iraq
> Which brings us neatly back to the Mr Nelson's idea of inflicting it on
> the Iraqi people to get the extremists ; won't work (I think we both agree)
> and morally wrong (possibly you disagree ?).
>
Why not? Extremists need the sympathy of the local populace to
operate and move about. Right now the locals have no meaningful
reason to be afraid of helping the extremists... but they DO have
reason to be afraid of not helping the extremists. The muslim
terrorists are willing to kill them, we aren't. Once they learn that
we're more of a threat, --------- acts will subside dramatically.
Dave, you accuse me of being inhumane and in favor of killing. That's
not true. If the choice were between killing and not killing, I would
opt for not killing. But that's not the choice. The choice is
between muslims dying and Americans dying, and I will choose muslims
every time given that situation. It is also a choice between more
people dying vs. less people dying. If we take dramatic actions now
to nip this in the bud, the long term prospects for life in Iraq, the
entire middle east, and even the civilized western nations will be
better due to lower terrorism. (If we had mickey moused around like
this with **** Germany, there would likely still be underground ****
'Werewolf' cells killing people there today. I can appreciate the
horror of seeing your neighbor, most likely an innocent civilian, who
was burned in the Dresden raid, but you have to see the bigger
picture. That raid and other actions like it put an end to the evil
and madness that claimed millions of lives.)
I notice you hail from Ireland. As your country was not attacked on
9/11, it is therefore not terribly surprising that you have little
interest in rallying to America's defense in this war against the
muslims and extremists. Perhaps if America were to lose completely
and totally, and the influence of Bin Laden were to pervade the entire
middle east, it wouldn't even affect Ireland at all.. at least not in
the short run. All I can say in response to that is that you
Europeans need to be glad that America has not taken that attitude,
but instead has repeatedly come to your aid when the principles of
democracy and freedom were at stake. If America had had your attitude
in 1917 and again in World War II, you would be speaking German today.
Unless, of course, you have any jewish blood in you, in which case
you would not be here at all.
> the Iraqi people to get the extremists ; won't work (I think we both agree)
> and morally wrong (possibly you disagree ?).
>
Why not? Extremists need the sympathy of the local populace to
operate and move about. Right now the locals have no meaningful
reason to be afraid of helping the extremists... but they DO have
reason to be afraid of not helping the extremists. The muslim
terrorists are willing to kill them, we aren't. Once they learn that
we're more of a threat, --------- acts will subside dramatically.
Dave, you accuse me of being inhumane and in favor of killing. That's
not true. If the choice were between killing and not killing, I would
opt for not killing. But that's not the choice. The choice is
between muslims dying and Americans dying, and I will choose muslims
every time given that situation. It is also a choice between more
people dying vs. less people dying. If we take dramatic actions now
to nip this in the bud, the long term prospects for life in Iraq, the
entire middle east, and even the civilized western nations will be
better due to lower terrorism. (If we had mickey moused around like
this with **** Germany, there would likely still be underground ****
'Werewolf' cells killing people there today. I can appreciate the
horror of seeing your neighbor, most likely an innocent civilian, who
was burned in the Dresden raid, but you have to see the bigger
picture. That raid and other actions like it put an end to the evil
and madness that claimed millions of lives.)
I notice you hail from Ireland. As your country was not attacked on
9/11, it is therefore not terribly surprising that you have little
interest in rallying to America's defense in this war against the
muslims and extremists. Perhaps if America were to lose completely
and totally, and the influence of Bin Laden were to pervade the entire
middle east, it wouldn't even affect Ireland at all.. at least not in
the short run. All I can say in response to that is that you
Europeans need to be glad that America has not taken that attitude,
but instead has repeatedly come to your aid when the principles of
democracy and freedom were at stake. If America had had your attitude
in 1917 and again in World War II, you would be speaking German today.
Unless, of course, you have any jewish blood in you, in which case
you would not be here at all.
09-08-2003, 09:45 AM
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Iraq
> There is no moral basis for killing a populace when there is absolutely no
> reason at all to do it, and there are means to accomplish the mission
> without collateral damage.
>
> Germany had a vast war production effort... Iraq had no such production...
Absolutely none of which was in Dresden.
> reason at all to do it, and there are means to accomplish the mission
> without collateral damage.
>
> Germany had a vast war production effort... Iraq had no such production...
Absolutely none of which was in Dresden.