jbjeep

I sure hope that you are feeling better soon and that there are no lasting effects
from this. Car accidents are one of the worst things. And it always seems as if you
just recover from one thing and wham...there it goes again. Best of luck to you for
a fast recovery Mike!!


On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 05:00:50 -0400, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>>Well, I appear to be in some fairly serious trouble here.
>>
>>It would appear that I got my head bounced pretty bad as passenger
>>three weeks ago.
>>
>>The reason I was a passenger is because I had a cut on my cornea and
>>just came back from the doctor with a patch on and was in screaming
>>pain, even with a lot of pain pills in me so was in no condition to
>>drive. Likely I could have even broken my leg and not felt it at that
>>time.
>>
>>We were turning right on a small residential road in front of my house
>>into a driveway and some fool in a Honda thought it would be cool to
>>show off for the Russian chicks with him and tried to pass us on the
>>right.
>>
>>He hit hard enough to need a tow away.
>>
>>Jerk T-boned us and I was the passenger....
>>
>>I 'knew' my leg got hit, but had no idea the severity or lack of at the
>>time.
>>
>>Knee and ankle are messed up.
>>
>>Don't 'really' remember if my head got bounced or not. Vague memory of
>>moving fast that way maybe, but I think the knee got hit first, so my
>>attention was there.
>>
>>The clinic I went to finally had my neck x-rayed last week, the leg was
>>the first priority and phoned yesterday to have me come in, so I
>>intended on going in today as they were open and the same doctor was on.
>>
>>I didn't make it....
>>
>>I was going for a shower and reached in with my left hand to check the
>>water and my complete upper back nerve set seized up on the left side
>>and half seized on the right side from the neck to the solar plexus.
>>
>>I couldn't inhale using my chest. Still as I write this I can barely
>>use my chest to breath. I still don't know how or if I am going to
>>sleep tonight....
>>
>>It took me a half hour to crawl to the phone and just as I got there it
>>rang. My wife who very seldom 'ever' calls home from work was on it,
>>she knows I don't usually answer, it's always for the kid on weekends
>>and holidays like today was.
>>
>>We 'connect' sometimes, always have.... Pretty cool.
>>
>>Rather than call 911, she came home from work which is real close and we
>>managed to get me into the Cherokee.
>>
>>We went to Emergency at a local hospital.
>>
>>They did a second set of neck x-rays in different positions after
>>phoning the clinic for the results of the first set and the complete
>>back and found a curve in one place in my neck that 'isn't' supposed to
>>be
>>there so I have to go back tomorrow for a CT scan on my neck. Could be
>>a fracture the xray doesn't see is what the doctor told me.
>>
>>I am in a solid foam neck brace until further notice.
>>
>>Because of the headache I have had since the accident and still having a
>>high light sensitivity in my eyes, they did a CT scan on my head.
>>
>>They found internal damage with the CT scan... Damn!
>>
>>They are setting up an appointment with a neurologist and sending me for
>>an MRI scan ASAP using the 'emergency' department priority. The Doc
>>said that would be the fastest. Hope so.
>>
>>My scalp and outer skull are still physically 'very' sore to the touch
>>in the center right area three weeks later. About where the door post
>>of the car would have connected.
>>
>>It wasn't a fun day today.... I spent 12 hours in Emergency having to
>>wear a mask because of SARS and in a neck brace, not being able to
>>breathe to start with, in freaking screaming pain bad enough I couldn't
>>inhale and they wouldn't allow pain pills. Got out at 1:00 AM or so...
>>
>>Tomorrow is also going to be a long one.
>>
>>Crap!
>>
>>Mike
>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Mike Romain

I am only taking one and sometimes two advil, nothing stronger. The
brace is doing it's thing and keeping the pressure off the pinch so the
pain level is low as long as I don't move much.

Mike

"Carlo Jr." wrote:
>
> Careful - beer & pain meds don't usually mix - might forget to
> breath.........
>
> --
> Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
> carlo.jr@comcast.net
> '98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
> O|||||||O
> '92 Explorer '65 Mustang
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F06F601.6E5B9C95@sympatico.ca...
> > I will be around. As you say, not going anywhere in any hurry.
> >
> > And yes, I can still drink beer, Doc didn't say not to, just can't
> > afford to until the insurance starts sending me some money in a couple
> > weeks....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Jo wrote:
> > >
> > > are you home tomorrow?
> > >
> > > Pardon me, stupid question. I mean, where are you going to go with a
> busted
> > > head, anyway?
> > >
> > > Can you still drink beer????
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:3F06E50A.8A0453AD@sympatico.ca...
> > > > You are right Jo.
> > > >
> > > > Even when I went to the doctor/clinic the next morning they missed the
> > > > head and neck injury totally. They were of the 'wait and see'
> > > > mentality. Only after having me continue and continue to complain of
> > > > the stiff neck and one arm going 'dead' for two weeks did they send me
> > > > for neck x-rays and even then the doctor didn't take my headache
> > > > seriously.
> > > >
> > > > When I couldn't breath and my arm turned purple and was taken to
> > > > emergency, 'That' doctor believed me and went nuts on me and checked
> > > > everything out.
> > > >
> > > > Some of these doctors are sometimes in too much of a hurry to bother
> to
> > > > really listen.
> > > >
> > > > An EMT would have been a lot more likely to have checked me out on the
> > > > scene after seeing the vehicle damage and angle of hit from what I
> know
> > > > of them and from the few I known personally like Steve. I have seen
> > > > Steve in action on our bush runs and he would have been all over me.
> > > >
> > > > And yes, I did get the fool who hit me's name.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Jo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree.
> > > > >
> > > > > My better half, who is trained in first aid as a second level bts in
> St.
> > > > > John Ambulance (whatever it all means, he knows his ----). Anyway,
> when
> > > > > Mike told him some of the symptoms Steve diagnosed it immediately as
> a
> > > head
> > > > > injury. I can't imagine how Mike has been functioning, but this BS
> > > about no
> > > > > one attending the scene could have saved him so much
> > > pain/damage/anxiety,
> > > > > and I agree that if the worst had happened it would be the direct
> cause
> > > of a
> > > > > faulty bureaucracy. Well, that and the -----for-brains selfish
> -------
> > > that
> > > > > hit him by passing on the F&(KING RIGHT! I wish I knew who it was.
> Do
> > > you
> > > > > know, Mike?
> > > > >
> > > > > Jo
> > > > > "Retiredff" <lbatter@bogfeet.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:n%VMa.76516$Io.7149884@newsread2.prod.itd.ear thlink.net...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Snow" <snowbalspam@spamrogersspam.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:rqVMa.34831$a51.8560@news02.bloor.is.net.cabl e.rogers.com...
> > > > > > > It is now the policy that the only time a cop or ambulance will
> be
> > > > > > > dispatched to an accident is if there is either people trapped
> in
> > > cars,
> > > > > > > suitable amount of blood, fire trucks requested, intersections
> or
> > > roads
> > > > > > > (highways) blocked
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That has got to be the most stupid, ignorant, asinine thing I've
> read
> > > in a
> > > > > > long time. Mike's accident proves it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > EMS providers, whether they are Firefighters, EMT's, or
> Paramedics,
> > > are
> > > > > > trained to look for mechanism of injury. Many times, injuries will
> > > remain
> > > > > > hidden, and just because you feel good after an accident, it
> doesn't
> > > mean
> > > > > > you don't have a serious, or possibly life-threatening injury.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Turn your head the wrong way, and that fractured neck that wasn't
> > > > > bothering
> > > > > > you suddenly paralyses you for life. That bleeding internal organ
> that
> > > you
> > > > > > can't feel causes you to suddenly collapse and die.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You guys need to start fighting that kind of crap.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Larry
> > > > > >
> > > > > >

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Hi Mike,
What brings my L5, S1 around is equivalent to 900 mg of aspirin
every four hours. And a little Pepto-Bismol. Advil and Tylenol are
useless for me because they are anti-inflammatory.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I am only taking one and sometimes two advil, nothing stronger. The
> brace is doing it's thing and keeping the pressure off the pinch so the
> pain level is low as long as I don't move much.
>
> Mike

Carlo Jr.

Tylenol has no anti-inflammatory properties - however, Advil is ibuprofen
(which is an "NSAID - or Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug) maybe think
about an rx for ibuprofen 800mg (not more than 3200mg) - 900mg of ASA
(probably 3 x 325 = 975) is getting up there. You will eventually get an
ulcer. ASA works by blocking cyclooxygenase I & II. This is where Celebrex &
Vioxx exhibit their claim to fame. They are no more effective than
ibuprofen - but they are more selective for *** II, which is a mediator of
pain & inflammation. *** I is responsible for the mucous lining in your
stomach (and other things). You have Hydrochloric Acid in your stomach @ pH
of less than 1. When the integrity of the mucous lining of the stomach is
interrupted, the acid is allowed to contact the tissue & eat a hole through
it.....=ulcer. Pepto Bismol does not help the situation for 2 reasons. #1 it
is an antacid. In the past - it was thought that NSAID's caused an ulcer by
the tablet sitting against the lining of the stomach and eating a hole
through it & thusly an antacid was thought to help. They discovered *** II
after it was realized that NSAIDs given IV still lead to an ulcer (no tablet
sitting against stomach wall). #2 Pepto Bismo is a salicylate & therefore,
may even enhance the toxicity of ASA (this is also the reason that children
should never be given Pepto Bismol - it carries the same risk as ASA for
Reyes Syndrome).
Relafen is a mixed *** I&II blocker. It was out before they knew about ***
I&II - but they have since found out that it is mixed, however more
selective for *** II than *** I. There is a generic for Relafen & if cost is
a factor it is much cheaper than Celebrex. Between Celebrex & Vioxx. I
highly prefer Celebrex. All NSAIDS may cause edema, hypertension, & possibly
congestive heart failure (fluid in lungs). I have never seen it in my few
years of practice until the year I opened Safeway phy (where I am now -
June, 2000) - had 3 pts that year with Vioxx, get edema.

--
Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
carlo.jr@comcast.net
'98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
O|||||||O
'92 Explorer '65 Mustang


"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:3F07A578.F8B30751@***.net...
> Hi Mike,
> What brings my L5, S1 around is equivalent to 900 mg of aspirin
> every four hours. And a little Pepto-Bismol. Advil and Tylenol are
> useless for me because they are anti-inflammatory.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > I am only taking one and sometimes two advil, nothing stronger. The
> > brace is doing it's thing and keeping the pressure off the pinch so the
> > pain level is low as long as I don't move much.
> >
> > Mike

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Yup.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Carlo Jr." wrote:
>
> Tylenol has no anti-inflammatory properties - however, Advil is ibuprofen
> (which is an "NSAID - or Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug) maybe think
> about an rx for ibuprofen 800mg (not more than 3200mg) - 900mg of ASA
> (probably 3 x 325 = 975) is getting up there. You will eventually get an
> ulcer. ASA works by blocking cyclooxygenase I & II. This is where Celebrex &
> Vioxx exhibit their claim to fame. They are no more effective than
> ibuprofen - but they are more selective for *** II, which is a mediator of
> pain & inflammation. *** I is responsible for the mucous lining in your
> stomach (and other things). You have Hydrochloric Acid in your stomach @ pH
> of less than 1. When the integrity of the mucous lining of the stomach is
> interrupted, the acid is allowed to contact the tissue & eat a hole through
> it.....=ulcer. Pepto Bismol does not help the situation for 2 reasons. #1 it
> is an antacid. In the past - it was thought that NSAID's caused an ulcer by
> the tablet sitting against the lining of the stomach and eating a hole
> through it & thusly an antacid was thought to help. They discovered *** II
> after it was realized that NSAIDs given IV still lead to an ulcer (no tablet
> sitting against stomach wall). #2 Pepto Bismo is a salicylate & therefore,
> may even enhance the toxicity of ASA (this is also the reason that children
> should never be given Pepto Bismol - it carries the same risk as ASA for
> Reyes Syndrome).
> Relafen is a mixed *** I&II blocker. It was out before they knew about ***
> I&II - but they have since found out that it is mixed, however more
> selective for *** II than *** I. There is a generic for Relafen & if cost is
> a factor it is much cheaper than Celebrex. Between Celebrex & Vioxx. I
> highly prefer Celebrex. All NSAIDS may cause edema, hypertension, & possibly
> congestive heart failure (fluid in lungs). I have never seen it in my few
> years of practice until the year I opened Safeway phy (where I am now -
> June, 2000) - had 3 pts that year with Vioxx, get edema.
>
> --
> Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
> carlo.jr@comcast.net
> '98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
> O|||||||O
> '92 Explorer '65 Mustang

Earle Horton

Stick with that doctor. I took care of a young lady in the hospital who had
self medicated with Ibuprofen and the like for a year, then checked into the
hospital with GI pain, and woke up with a colostomy. Young people shouldn't
be walking around with colostomies. I think and hope she had it reversed
later, but still...

Earle

"jbjeep" <jbjeep@saw.net> wrote in message
news:0j4hgv0qhksojhv9bo970f9jhcfv7qmgls@4ax.com...
> Just curious....why do you say you will eventually get an ulcer? Whats,
or rather
> how long is, eventually? I've been taking 1600 mg a day of Ibuprofen for
the last
> 10+ years. No ulcers, no kidney damages, no nothing but one hell of a lot
of pain
> and swelling releif. And yes...under a doctors supervision.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 05:05:15 GMT, "Carlo Jr." <carlo.jr@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> >>Tylenol has no anti-inflammatory properties - however, Advil is
ibuprofen
> >>(which is an "NSAID - or Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug) maybe
think
> >>about an rx for ibuprofen 800mg (not more than 3200mg) - 900mg of ASA
> >>(probably 3 x 325 = 975) is getting up there. You will eventually get an
> >>ulcer. ASA works by blocking cyclooxygenase I & II. This is where
Celebrex &
> >>Vioxx exhibit their claim to fame. They are no more effective than
> >>ibuprofen - but they are more selective for *** II, which is a mediator
of
> >>pain & inflammation. *** I is responsible for the mucous lining in your
> >>stomach (and other things). You have Hydrochloric Acid in your stomach @
pH
> >>of less than 1. When the integrity of the mucous lining of the stomach
is
> >>interrupted, the acid is allowed to contact the tissue & eat a hole
through
> >>it.....=ulcer. Pepto Bismol does not help the situation for 2 reasons.
#1 it
> >>is an antacid. In the past - it was thought that NSAID's caused an ulcer
by
> >>the tablet sitting against the lining of the stomach and eating a hole
> >>through it & thusly an antacid was thought to help. They discovered ***
II
> >>after it was realized that NSAIDs given IV still lead to an ulcer (no
tablet
> >>sitting against stomach wall). #2 Pepto Bismo is a salicylate &
therefore,
> >>may even enhance the toxicity of ASA (this is also the reason that
children
> >>should never be given Pepto Bismol - it carries the same risk as ASA for
> >>Reyes Syndrome).
> >>Relafen is a mixed *** I&II blocker. It was out before they knew about
***
> >>I&II - but they have since found out that it is mixed, however more
> >>selective for *** II than *** I. There is a generic for Relafen & if
cost is
> >>a factor it is much cheaper than Celebrex. Between Celebrex & Vioxx. I
> >>highly prefer Celebrex. All NSAIDS may cause edema, hypertension, &
possibly
> >>congestive heart failure (fluid in lungs). I have never seen it in my
few
> >>years of practice until the year I opened Safeway phy (where I am now -
> >>June, 2000) - had 3 pts that year with Vioxx, get edema.
>

Carlo Jr.

As I stated in my earlier post, the problem is with the inhibition of
"cyclo-oxygenase I", which will give a compromise of the integrity of the
mucous lining of the stomach. When a protective layer of mucus is not
present to block the effects of hydrochloric acid - acid will do what acid
does - it will burn a hole through the tissue. It is impossible to predict
when this will occur in any particular person. It may be after the first
dose, or it may be after 10 yrs of 4 doses/day , or when ever - but it will
happen.
Also note OTC ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, etc) is 200mg/tab. If you read the
side panel, it will tell you not to exceed 1600mg/day - yet, the medical
literature for 400mg, 600mg. & 800mg ibuprofen (requires Rx) states that you
should not exceed 3200mg/day (800mg 4 times a day). When ibuprofen first
went OTC, I asked one of the reps what the difference was & he told me it
had something to do with the tablet coating. I have been unable to find any
literature to support that, but if it were me I would go for an Rx if I was
exceeding 1600mg/day - if for nothing other than legal CYA. If a problem
does occur, the mfg or your medical insurance could show that you
"recklessly" exceeded the recommended dose.

I have seen attitudes misjudged, & therefore I want to stress that this is
why I paid a lot of money & a lot of time to go to school. I must consult
each patient that I hand a prescription to BY LAW........But I was doing
this, by choice, long before the law came into being. Please do not
hesitate to ask me any questions either here in this NG or by e-mail or
whatever...........I will find the answer if I don't know it. This is what I
do.........

--
Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
carlo.jr@comcast.net
'98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
O|||||||O
'92 Explorer '65 Mustang


"jbjeep" <jbjeep@saw.net> wrote in message
news:0j4hgv0qhksojhv9bo970f9jhcfv7qmgls@4ax.com...
> Just curious....why do you say you will eventually get an ulcer? Whats,
or rather
> how long is, eventually? I've been taking 1600 mg a day of Ibuprofen for
the last
> 10+ years. No ulcers, no kidney damages, no nothing but one hell of a lot
of pain
> and swelling releif. And yes...under a doctors supervision.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 05:05:15 GMT, "Carlo Jr." <carlo.jr@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> >>Tylenol has no anti-inflammatory properties - however, Advil is
ibuprofen
> >>(which is an "NSAID - or Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug) maybe
think
> >>about an rx for ibuprofen 800mg (not more than 3200mg) - 900mg of ASA
> >>(probably 3 x 325 = 975) is getting up there. You will eventually get an
> >>ulcer. ASA works by blocking cyclooxygenase I & II. This is where
Celebrex &
> >>Vioxx exhibit their claim to fame. They are no more effective than
> >>ibuprofen - but they are more selective for *** II, which is a mediator
of
> >>pain & inflammation. *** I is responsible for the mucous lining in your
> >>stomach (and other things). You have Hydrochloric Acid in your stomach @
pH
> >>of less than 1. When the integrity of the mucous lining of the stomach
is
> >>interrupted, the acid is allowed to contact the tissue & eat a hole
through
> >>it.....=ulcer. Pepto Bismol does not help the situation for 2 reasons.
#1 it
> >>is an antacid. In the past - it was thought that NSAID's caused an ulcer
by
> >>the tablet sitting against the lining of the stomach and eating a hole
> >>through it & thusly an antacid was thought to help. They discovered ***
II
> >>after it was realized that NSAIDs given IV still lead to an ulcer (no
tablet
> >>sitting against stomach wall). #2 Pepto Bismo is a salicylate &
therefore,
> >>may even enhance the toxicity of ASA (this is also the reason that
children
> >>should never be given Pepto Bismol - it carries the same risk as ASA for
> >>Reyes Syndrome).
> >>Relafen is a mixed *** I&II blocker. It was out before they knew about
***
> >>I&II - but they have since found out that it is mixed, however more
> >>selective for *** II than *** I. There is a generic for Relafen & if
cost is
> >>a factor it is much cheaper than Celebrex. Between Celebrex & Vioxx. I
> >>highly prefer Celebrex. All NSAIDS may cause edema, hypertension, &
possibly
> >>congestive heart failure (fluid in lungs). I have never seen it in my
few
> >>years of practice until the year I opened Safeway phy (where I am now -
> >>June, 2000) - had 3 pts that year with Vioxx, get edema.
>

jbjeep

Thanks Carlo,
Interesting - I convinced my doc to give it to me in prescription form not only
because one pill is easier to take than several, but so that my medical insurance
will cover them. I'll try to remember to ask her about this some more when I see her
next. The pharmancy, like clockwork, calls me in for blood tests roughly every 12
months - or 4 refills - too, in fact, I just got the letter in yesterdays mail saying
its time to come in for testing again.

Had a freind on a cannery boat in AK put herself in the hospital with a bleeding
ulcer after exceeding the reccomended OTC amounts for a couple of weeks one year.
Not sure how much she was taking, but it was way too much...she was going thru a
bottle a week or so on the boat she said - of course she was also stressed and
drinking too much and all the other stuff they did on the boats.




On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:26:35 GMT, "Carlo Jr." <carlo.jr@comcast.net> wrote:

>>As I stated in my earlier post, the problem is with the inhibition of
>>"cyclo-oxygenase I", which will give a compromise of the integrity of the
>>mucous lining of the stomach. When a protective layer of mucus is not
>>present to block the effects of hydrochloric acid - acid will do what acid
>>does - it will burn a hole through the tissue. It is impossible to predict
>>when this will occur in any particular person. It may be after the first
>>dose, or it may be after 10 yrs of 4 doses/day , or when ever - but it will
>>happen.
>>Also note OTC ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, etc) is 200mg/tab. If you read the
>>side panel, it will tell you not to exceed 1600mg/day - yet, the medical
>>literature for 400mg, 600mg. & 800mg ibuprofen (requires Rx) states that you
>>should not exceed 3200mg/day (800mg 4 times a day). When ibuprofen first
>>went OTC, I asked one of the reps what the difference was & he told me it
>>had something to do with the tablet coating. I have been unable to find any
>>literature to support that, but if it were me I would go for an Rx if I was
>>exceeding 1600mg/day - if for nothing other than legal CYA. If a problem
>>does occur, the mfg or your medical insurance could show that you
>>"recklessly" exceeded the recommended dose.
>>
>>I have seen attitudes misjudged, & therefore I want to stress that this is
>>why I paid a lot of money & a lot of time to go to school. I must consult
>>each patient that I hand a prescription to BY LAW........But I was doing
>>this, by choice, long before the law came into being. Please do not
>>hesitate to ask me any questions either here in this NG or by e-mail or
>>whatever...........I will find the answer if I don't know it. This is what I
>>do.........
>>
>>--
>> Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
>> carlo.jr@comcast.net
>>'98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
>> O|||||||O
>>'92 Explorer '65 Mustang
>>
>>
>>"jbjeep" <jbjeep@saw.net> wrote in message
>>news:0j4hgv0qhksojhv9bo970f9jhcfv7qmgls@4ax.com. ..
>>> Just curious....why do you say you will eventually get an ulcer? Whats,
>>or rather
>>> how long is, eventually? I've been taking 1600 mg a day of Ibuprofen for
>>the last
>>> 10+ years. No ulcers, no kidney damages, no nothing but one hell of a lot
>>of pain
>>> and swelling releif. And yes...under a doctors supervision.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 05:05:15 GMT, "Carlo Jr." <carlo.jr@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>>
>>> >>Tylenol has no anti-inflammatory properties - however, Advil is
>>ibuprofen
>>> >>(which is an "NSAID - or Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug) maybe
>>think
>>> >>about an rx for ibuprofen 800mg (not more than 3200mg) - 900mg of ASA
>>> >>(probably 3 x 325 = 975) is getting up there. You will eventually get an
>>> >>ulcer. ASA works by blocking cyclooxygenase I & II. This is where
>>Celebrex &
>>> >>Vioxx exhibit their claim to fame. They are no more effective than
>>> >>ibuprofen - but they are more selective for *** II, which is a mediator
>>of
>>> >>pain & inflammation. *** I is responsible for the mucous lining in your
>>> >>stomach (and other things). You have Hydrochloric Acid in your stomach @
>>pH
>>> >>of less than 1. When the integrity of the mucous lining of the stomach
>>is
>>> >>interrupted, the acid is allowed to contact the tissue & eat a hole
>>through
>>> >>it.....=ulcer. Pepto Bismol does not help the situation for 2 reasons.
>>#1 it
>>> >>is an antacid. In the past - it was thought that NSAID's caused an ulcer
>>by
>>> >>the tablet sitting against the lining of the stomach and eating a hole
>>> >>through it & thusly an antacid was thought to help. They discovered ***
>>II
>>> >>after it was realized that NSAIDs given IV still lead to an ulcer (no
>>tablet
>>> >>sitting against stomach wall). #2 Pepto Bismo is a salicylate &
>>therefore,
>>> >>may even enhance the toxicity of ASA (this is also the reason that
>>children
>>> >>should never be given Pepto Bismol - it carries the same risk as ASA for
>>> >>Reyes Syndrome).
>>> >>Relafen is a mixed *** I&II blocker. It was out before they knew about
>>***
>>> >>I&II - but they have since found out that it is mixed, however more
>>> >>selective for *** II than *** I. There is a generic for Relafen & if
>>cost is
>>> >>a factor it is much cheaper than Celebrex. Between Celebrex & Vioxx. I
>>> >>highly prefer Celebrex. All NSAIDS may cause edema, hypertension, &
>>possibly
>>> >>congestive heart failure (fluid in lungs). I have never seen it in my
>>few
>>> >>years of practice until the year I opened Safeway phy (where I am now -
>>> >>June, 2000) - had 3 pts that year with Vioxx, get edema.
>>>
>>

Carlo Jr.

all 3 factors can get pretty ugly
they say it is not stress that kills you.........it's how you handle it
NSAIDS & alcohol are each, by themselves,GI corrosive.In combination alcohol
exacerbates the situation by sort of acting as a vehicle, carrying the NSAID
deeper into the tissue & increasing the ulcerative effect. This is the
reason that you don't take ASA for a hang over until @ least the next day.

--
Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
carlo.jr@comcast.net
'98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
O|||||||O
'92 Explorer '65 Mustang


"jbjeep" <jbjeep@saw.net> wrote in message
news:e5ehgvgshsj0m3cnfft32uqmt5mnrentlu@4ax.com...
> Thanks Carlo,
> Interesting - I convinced my doc to give it to me in prescription form
not only
> because one pill is easier to take than several, but so that my medical
insurance
> will cover them. I'll try to remember to ask her about this some more
when I see her
> next. The pharmancy, like clockwork, calls me in for blood tests roughly
every 12
> months - or 4 refills - too, in fact, I just got the letter in yesterdays
mail saying
> its time to come in for testing again.
>
> Had a freind on a cannery boat in AK put herself in the hospital with a
bleeding
> ulcer after exceeding the reccomended OTC amounts for a couple of weeks
one year.
> Not sure how much she was taking, but it was way too much...she was going
thru a
> bottle a week or so on the boat she said - of course she was also stressed
and
> drinking too much and all the other stuff they did on the boats.
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:26:35 GMT, "Carlo Jr." <carlo.jr@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> >>As I stated in my earlier post, the problem is with the inhibition of
> >>"cyclo-oxygenase I", which will give a compromise of the integrity of
the
> >>mucous lining of the stomach. When a protective layer of mucus is not
> >>present to block the effects of hydrochloric acid - acid will do what
acid
> >>does - it will burn a hole through the tissue. It is impossible to
predict
> >>when this will occur in any particular person. It may be after the first
> >>dose, or it may be after 10 yrs of 4 doses/day , or when ever - but it
will
> >>happen.
> >>Also note OTC ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, etc) is 200mg/tab. If you read
the
> >>side panel, it will tell you not to exceed 1600mg/day - yet, the medical
> >>literature for 400mg, 600mg. & 800mg ibuprofen (requires Rx) states that
you
> >>should not exceed 3200mg/day (800mg 4 times a day). When ibuprofen first
> >>went OTC, I asked one of the reps what the difference was & he told me
it
> >>had something to do with the tablet coating. I have been unable to find
any
> >>literature to support that, but if it were me I would go for an Rx if I
was
> >>exceeding 1600mg/day - if for nothing other than legal CYA. If a problem
> >>does occur, the mfg or your medical insurance could show that you
> >>"recklessly" exceeded the recommended dose.
> >>
> >>I have seen attitudes misjudged, & therefore I want to stress that this
is
> >>why I paid a lot of money & a lot of time to go to school. I must
consult
> >>each patient that I hand a prescription to BY LAW........But I was doing
> >>this, by choice, long before the law came into being. Please do not
> >>hesitate to ask me any questions either here in this NG or by e-mail or
> >>whatever...........I will find the answer if I don't know it. This is
what I
> >>do.........
> >>
> >>--
> >> Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
> >> carlo.jr@comcast.net
> >>'98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
> >> O|||||||O
> >>'92 Explorer '65 Mustang
> >>
> >>
> >>"jbjeep" <jbjeep@saw.net> wrote in message
> >>news:0j4hgv0qhksojhv9bo970f9jhcfv7qmgls@4ax.com. ..
> >>> Just curious....why do you say you will eventually get an ulcer?
Whats,
> >>or rather
> >>> how long is, eventually? I've been taking 1600 mg a day of Ibuprofen
for
> >>the last
> >>> 10+ years. No ulcers, no kidney damages, no nothing but one hell of a
lot
> >>of pain
> >>> and swelling releif. And yes...under a doctors supervision.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 05:05:15 GMT, "Carlo Jr." <carlo.jr@comcast.net>
> >>wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >>Tylenol has no anti-inflammatory properties - however, Advil is
> >>ibuprofen
> >>> >>(which is an "NSAID - or Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug) maybe
> >>think
> >>> >>about an rx for ibuprofen 800mg (not more than 3200mg) - 900mg of
ASA
> >>> >>(probably 3 x 325 = 975) is getting up there. You will eventually
get an
> >>> >>ulcer. ASA works by blocking cyclooxygenase I & II. This is where
> >>Celebrex &
> >>> >>Vioxx exhibit their claim to fame. They are no more effective than
> >>> >>ibuprofen - but they are more selective for *** II, which is a
mediator
> >>of
> >>> >>pain & inflammation. *** I is responsible for the mucous lining in
your
> >>> >>stomach (and other things). You have Hydrochloric Acid in your
stomach @
> >>pH
> >>> >>of less than 1. When the integrity of the mucous lining of the
stomach
> >>is
> >>> >>interrupted, the acid is allowed to contact the tissue & eat a hole
> >>through
> >>> >>it.....=ulcer. Pepto Bismol does not help the situation for 2
reasons.
> >>#1 it
> >>> >>is an antacid. In the past - it was thought that NSAID's caused an
ulcer
> >>by
> >>> >>the tablet sitting against the lining of the stomach and eating a
hole
> >>> >>through it & thusly an antacid was thought to help. They discovered
***
> >>II
> >>> >>after it was realized that NSAIDs given IV still lead to an ulcer
(no
> >>tablet
> >>> >>sitting against stomach wall). #2 Pepto Bismo is a salicylate &
> >>therefore,
> >>> >>may even enhance the toxicity of ASA (this is also the reason that
> >>children
> >>> >>should never be given Pepto Bismol - it carries the same risk as ASA
for
> >>> >>Reyes Syndrome).
> >>> >>Relafen is a mixed *** I&II blocker. It was out before they knew
about
> >>***
> >>> >>I&II - but they have since found out that it is mixed, however more
> >>> >>selective for *** II than *** I. There is a generic for Relafen & if
> >>cost is
> >>> >>a factor it is much cheaper than Celebrex. Between Celebrex & Vioxx.
I
> >>> >>highly prefer Celebrex. All NSAIDS may cause edema, hypertension, &
> >>possibly
> >>> >>congestive heart failure (fluid in lungs). I have never seen it in
my
> >>few
> >>> >>years of practice until the year I opened Safeway phy (where I am
now -
> >>> >>June, 2000) - had 3 pts that year with Vioxx, get edema.
> >>>
> >>
>

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Fortunately I haven't drank enough to be drunk in ten, maybe
fifteen years. But I lay the fact that I didn't get hangovers because I
dropped a couple Anacin before I go to bed. It's kind of the next day,
usually at least two AM.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Carlo Jr." wrote:
>
> all 3 factors can get pretty ugly
> they say it is not stress that kills you.........it's how you handle it
> NSAIDS & alcohol are each, by themselves,GI corrosive.In combination alcohol
> exacerbates the situation by sort of acting as a vehicle, carrying the NSAID
> deeper into the tissue & increasing the ulcerative effect. This is the
> reason that you don't take ASA for a hang over until @ least the next day.
>
> --
> Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
> carlo.jr@comcast.net
> '98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
> O|||||||O
> '92 Explorer '65 Mustang