Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Roughly 12/9/03 17:20, Del Rawlins's monkeys randomly typed:
> On 09 Dec 2003 10:31 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>> Yup, they are just another 'failed' attempt to compensate for lack of
>> driver training.
>
> The increased stopping distances are a reflection of a lack of driver
> training with the new equipment, not of any problem with the ABS systems.
> You and I are not physically capable of outbraking a properly set up
> computer.
Or even most of the ones out there. With the disclaimer that there
are some surfaces where ABS will slow down a stop...none of which are
encountered on public roads. Two things cause the increased
stupidity count with ABS.
1. In most of the accidents with ABS equipped cars, the driver never
hits the brake pedal hard enough to engage the ABS.
2. Drivers simply overdrive conditions if they know the vehicle is
ABS equipped.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
> On 09 Dec 2003 10:31 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>> Yup, they are just another 'failed' attempt to compensate for lack of
>> driver training.
>
> The increased stopping distances are a reflection of a lack of driver
> training with the new equipment, not of any problem with the ABS systems.
> You and I are not physically capable of outbraking a properly set up
> computer.
Or even most of the ones out there. With the disclaimer that there
are some surfaces where ABS will slow down a stop...none of which are
encountered on public roads. Two things cause the increased
stupidity count with ABS.
1. In most of the accidents with ABS equipped cars, the driver never
hits the brake pedal hard enough to engage the ABS.
2. Drivers simply overdrive conditions if they know the vehicle is
ABS equipped.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Roughly 12/9/03 17:20, Del Rawlins's monkeys randomly typed:
> On 09 Dec 2003 10:31 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>> Yup, they are just another 'failed' attempt to compensate for lack of
>> driver training.
>
> The increased stopping distances are a reflection of a lack of driver
> training with the new equipment, not of any problem with the ABS systems.
> You and I are not physically capable of outbraking a properly set up
> computer.
Or even most of the ones out there. With the disclaimer that there
are some surfaces where ABS will slow down a stop...none of which are
encountered on public roads. Two things cause the increased
stupidity count with ABS.
1. In most of the accidents with ABS equipped cars, the driver never
hits the brake pedal hard enough to engage the ABS.
2. Drivers simply overdrive conditions if they know the vehicle is
ABS equipped.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
> On 09 Dec 2003 10:31 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>> Yup, they are just another 'failed' attempt to compensate for lack of
>> driver training.
>
> The increased stopping distances are a reflection of a lack of driver
> training with the new equipment, not of any problem with the ABS systems.
> You and I are not physically capable of outbraking a properly set up
> computer.
Or even most of the ones out there. With the disclaimer that there
are some surfaces where ABS will slow down a stop...none of which are
encountered on public roads. Two things cause the increased
stupidity count with ABS.
1. In most of the accidents with ABS equipped cars, the driver never
hits the brake pedal hard enough to engage the ABS.
2. Drivers simply overdrive conditions if they know the vehicle is
ABS equipped.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Roughly 12/9/03 17:20, Del Rawlins's monkeys randomly typed:
> On 09 Dec 2003 10:31 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>> Yup, they are just another 'failed' attempt to compensate for lack of
>> driver training.
>
> The increased stopping distances are a reflection of a lack of driver
> training with the new equipment, not of any problem with the ABS systems.
> You and I are not physically capable of outbraking a properly set up
> computer.
Or even most of the ones out there. With the disclaimer that there
are some surfaces where ABS will slow down a stop...none of which are
encountered on public roads. Two things cause the increased
stupidity count with ABS.
1. In most of the accidents with ABS equipped cars, the driver never
hits the brake pedal hard enough to engage the ABS.
2. Drivers simply overdrive conditions if they know the vehicle is
ABS equipped.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
> On 09 Dec 2003 10:31 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>> Yup, they are just another 'failed' attempt to compensate for lack of
>> driver training.
>
> The increased stopping distances are a reflection of a lack of driver
> training with the new equipment, not of any problem with the ABS systems.
> You and I are not physically capable of outbraking a properly set up
> computer.
Or even most of the ones out there. With the disclaimer that there
are some surfaces where ABS will slow down a stop...none of which are
encountered on public roads. Two things cause the increased
stupidity count with ABS.
1. In most of the accidents with ABS equipped cars, the driver never
hits the brake pedal hard enough to engage the ABS.
2. Drivers simply overdrive conditions if they know the vehicle is
ABS equipped.
--
Fan of the dumbest team in America.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
I believe the reason ABS is not an option on the Dana 44 is their
owners are more mechanical inclined, therefore smart enough to release
the brakes if they lock enough to melt the rubber. Just a sliding tire
does not mean total lose of traction
I suggest you were not going fast enough to worry about not having
brakes as the thirty percent more fatal off road crashes found out when
inertial threw them from the road when the ABS released.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> That is easy enough for somebody living in southern california, who will
> never have any use for ABS to say. In snow and ice, ABS can be a real
> asset and after having it on my last 2 rigs, I wouldn't buy a new
> vehicle that didn't come with it. When was the last time you drove to
> work on icy, snow covered roads? I've been doing it every morning for
> the last month and a half and I like having ABS on my Jeep. Sure, a
> good driver can and will get by just fine without it, but it can be a
> valuable thing to have on occasion when the guy ahead of you does
> something dumb. Then there was the day that I tried to make that right
> hand turn too fast in my S-10 on the ice a few years ago. The ABS took
> me right around that corner and even kept me in my own lane; with
> standard brakes I most likely would have slid across the intersection
> and into the ditch, a victim of my own stupidity.
>
> As for the D-44 with ABS, you just can't get it that way from the
> factory. The aftermarket can provide you with an ABS equipped D-44, but
> you can expect to pay for the privelege of having your cake and eating
> it too.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
owners are more mechanical inclined, therefore smart enough to release
the brakes if they lock enough to melt the rubber. Just a sliding tire
does not mean total lose of traction
I suggest you were not going fast enough to worry about not having
brakes as the thirty percent more fatal off road crashes found out when
inertial threw them from the road when the ABS released.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> That is easy enough for somebody living in southern california, who will
> never have any use for ABS to say. In snow and ice, ABS can be a real
> asset and after having it on my last 2 rigs, I wouldn't buy a new
> vehicle that didn't come with it. When was the last time you drove to
> work on icy, snow covered roads? I've been doing it every morning for
> the last month and a half and I like having ABS on my Jeep. Sure, a
> good driver can and will get by just fine without it, but it can be a
> valuable thing to have on occasion when the guy ahead of you does
> something dumb. Then there was the day that I tried to make that right
> hand turn too fast in my S-10 on the ice a few years ago. The ABS took
> me right around that corner and even kept me in my own lane; with
> standard brakes I most likely would have slid across the intersection
> and into the ditch, a victim of my own stupidity.
>
> As for the D-44 with ABS, you just can't get it that way from the
> factory. The aftermarket can provide you with an ABS equipped D-44, but
> you can expect to pay for the privelege of having your cake and eating
> it too.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
I believe the reason ABS is not an option on the Dana 44 is their
owners are more mechanical inclined, therefore smart enough to release
the brakes if they lock enough to melt the rubber. Just a sliding tire
does not mean total lose of traction
I suggest you were not going fast enough to worry about not having
brakes as the thirty percent more fatal off road crashes found out when
inertial threw them from the road when the ABS released.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> That is easy enough for somebody living in southern california, who will
> never have any use for ABS to say. In snow and ice, ABS can be a real
> asset and after having it on my last 2 rigs, I wouldn't buy a new
> vehicle that didn't come with it. When was the last time you drove to
> work on icy, snow covered roads? I've been doing it every morning for
> the last month and a half and I like having ABS on my Jeep. Sure, a
> good driver can and will get by just fine without it, but it can be a
> valuable thing to have on occasion when the guy ahead of you does
> something dumb. Then there was the day that I tried to make that right
> hand turn too fast in my S-10 on the ice a few years ago. The ABS took
> me right around that corner and even kept me in my own lane; with
> standard brakes I most likely would have slid across the intersection
> and into the ditch, a victim of my own stupidity.
>
> As for the D-44 with ABS, you just can't get it that way from the
> factory. The aftermarket can provide you with an ABS equipped D-44, but
> you can expect to pay for the privelege of having your cake and eating
> it too.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
owners are more mechanical inclined, therefore smart enough to release
the brakes if they lock enough to melt the rubber. Just a sliding tire
does not mean total lose of traction
I suggest you were not going fast enough to worry about not having
brakes as the thirty percent more fatal off road crashes found out when
inertial threw them from the road when the ABS released.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> That is easy enough for somebody living in southern california, who will
> never have any use for ABS to say. In snow and ice, ABS can be a real
> asset and after having it on my last 2 rigs, I wouldn't buy a new
> vehicle that didn't come with it. When was the last time you drove to
> work on icy, snow covered roads? I've been doing it every morning for
> the last month and a half and I like having ABS on my Jeep. Sure, a
> good driver can and will get by just fine without it, but it can be a
> valuable thing to have on occasion when the guy ahead of you does
> something dumb. Then there was the day that I tried to make that right
> hand turn too fast in my S-10 on the ice a few years ago. The ABS took
> me right around that corner and even kept me in my own lane; with
> standard brakes I most likely would have slid across the intersection
> and into the ditch, a victim of my own stupidity.
>
> As for the D-44 with ABS, you just can't get it that way from the
> factory. The aftermarket can provide you with an ABS equipped D-44, but
> you can expect to pay for the privelege of having your cake and eating
> it too.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
I believe the reason ABS is not an option on the Dana 44 is their
owners are more mechanical inclined, therefore smart enough to release
the brakes if they lock enough to melt the rubber. Just a sliding tire
does not mean total lose of traction
I suggest you were not going fast enough to worry about not having
brakes as the thirty percent more fatal off road crashes found out when
inertial threw them from the road when the ABS released.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> That is easy enough for somebody living in southern california, who will
> never have any use for ABS to say. In snow and ice, ABS can be a real
> asset and after having it on my last 2 rigs, I wouldn't buy a new
> vehicle that didn't come with it. When was the last time you drove to
> work on icy, snow covered roads? I've been doing it every morning for
> the last month and a half and I like having ABS on my Jeep. Sure, a
> good driver can and will get by just fine without it, but it can be a
> valuable thing to have on occasion when the guy ahead of you does
> something dumb. Then there was the day that I tried to make that right
> hand turn too fast in my S-10 on the ice a few years ago. The ABS took
> me right around that corner and even kept me in my own lane; with
> standard brakes I most likely would have slid across the intersection
> and into the ditch, a victim of my own stupidity.
>
> As for the D-44 with ABS, you just can't get it that way from the
> factory. The aftermarket can provide you with an ABS equipped D-44, but
> you can expect to pay for the privelege of having your cake and eating
> it too.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
owners are more mechanical inclined, therefore smart enough to release
the brakes if they lock enough to melt the rubber. Just a sliding tire
does not mean total lose of traction
I suggest you were not going fast enough to worry about not having
brakes as the thirty percent more fatal off road crashes found out when
inertial threw them from the road when the ABS released.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> That is easy enough for somebody living in southern california, who will
> never have any use for ABS to say. In snow and ice, ABS can be a real
> asset and after having it on my last 2 rigs, I wouldn't buy a new
> vehicle that didn't come with it. When was the last time you drove to
> work on icy, snow covered roads? I've been doing it every morning for
> the last month and a half and I like having ABS on my Jeep. Sure, a
> good driver can and will get by just fine without it, but it can be a
> valuable thing to have on occasion when the guy ahead of you does
> something dumb. Then there was the day that I tried to make that right
> hand turn too fast in my S-10 on the ice a few years ago. The ABS took
> me right around that corner and even kept me in my own lane; with
> standard brakes I most likely would have slid across the intersection
> and into the ditch, a victim of my own stupidity.
>
> As for the D-44 with ABS, you just can't get it that way from the
> factory. The aftermarket can provide you with an ABS equipped D-44, but
> you can expect to pay for the privelege of having your cake and eating
> it too.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 09 Dec 2003 10:31 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> > Yup, they are just another 'failed' attempt to compensate for lack of
> > driver training.
>
> The increased stopping distances are a reflection of a lack of driver
> training with the new equipment, not of any problem with the ABS systems.
> You and I are not physically capable of outbraking a properly set up
> computer.
>
LOL!
Sure..... and Microsoft has the market cornered....
A total lock of the wheels is the fastest stop, period.
Threshold braking allows some control if needed. People aren't taught
this.
ABS refuses to lock the wheels period. If you are on a real steep dirt
or snow down hill, you will not be able to stop period.
The tree or car at the bottom 'will' stop you fast though. Been there,
watched that, then watched the second and third try with the ABS fuse
pulled. He could then miss the tree.
Just go read the real stats on ABS from the national transportation
safety council that Bill posted.
The insurance companies also have similar studies and stats out.
ABS is crap in emergency situations where you need a fast stop. It
works well if you have the room or time to react. It is plain dangerous
off road.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> On 09 Dec 2003 10:31 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> > Yup, they are just another 'failed' attempt to compensate for lack of
> > driver training.
>
> The increased stopping distances are a reflection of a lack of driver
> training with the new equipment, not of any problem with the ABS systems.
> You and I are not physically capable of outbraking a properly set up
> computer.
>
LOL!
Sure..... and Microsoft has the market cornered....
A total lock of the wheels is the fastest stop, period.
Threshold braking allows some control if needed. People aren't taught
this.
ABS refuses to lock the wheels period. If you are on a real steep dirt
or snow down hill, you will not be able to stop period.
The tree or car at the bottom 'will' stop you fast though. Been there,
watched that, then watched the second and third try with the ABS fuse
pulled. He could then miss the tree.
Just go read the real stats on ABS from the national transportation
safety council that Bill posted.
The insurance companies also have similar studies and stats out.
ABS is crap in emergency situations where you need a fast stop. It
works well if you have the room or time to react. It is plain dangerous
off road.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 09 Dec 2003 10:31 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> > Yup, they are just another 'failed' attempt to compensate for lack of
> > driver training.
>
> The increased stopping distances are a reflection of a lack of driver
> training with the new equipment, not of any problem with the ABS systems.
> You and I are not physically capable of outbraking a properly set up
> computer.
>
LOL!
Sure..... and Microsoft has the market cornered....
A total lock of the wheels is the fastest stop, period.
Threshold braking allows some control if needed. People aren't taught
this.
ABS refuses to lock the wheels period. If you are on a real steep dirt
or snow down hill, you will not be able to stop period.
The tree or car at the bottom 'will' stop you fast though. Been there,
watched that, then watched the second and third try with the ABS fuse
pulled. He could then miss the tree.
Just go read the real stats on ABS from the national transportation
safety council that Bill posted.
The insurance companies also have similar studies and stats out.
ABS is crap in emergency situations where you need a fast stop. It
works well if you have the room or time to react. It is plain dangerous
off road.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> On 09 Dec 2003 10:31 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> > Yup, they are just another 'failed' attempt to compensate for lack of
> > driver training.
>
> The increased stopping distances are a reflection of a lack of driver
> training with the new equipment, not of any problem with the ABS systems.
> You and I are not physically capable of outbraking a properly set up
> computer.
>
LOL!
Sure..... and Microsoft has the market cornered....
A total lock of the wheels is the fastest stop, period.
Threshold braking allows some control if needed. People aren't taught
this.
ABS refuses to lock the wheels period. If you are on a real steep dirt
or snow down hill, you will not be able to stop period.
The tree or car at the bottom 'will' stop you fast though. Been there,
watched that, then watched the second and third try with the ABS fuse
pulled. He could then miss the tree.
Just go read the real stats on ABS from the national transportation
safety council that Bill posted.
The insurance companies also have similar studies and stats out.
ABS is crap in emergency situations where you need a fast stop. It
works well if you have the room or time to react. It is plain dangerous
off road.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 09 Dec 2003 10:31 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> > Yup, they are just another 'failed' attempt to compensate for lack of
> > driver training.
>
> The increased stopping distances are a reflection of a lack of driver
> training with the new equipment, not of any problem with the ABS systems.
> You and I are not physically capable of outbraking a properly set up
> computer.
>
LOL!
Sure..... and Microsoft has the market cornered....
A total lock of the wheels is the fastest stop, period.
Threshold braking allows some control if needed. People aren't taught
this.
ABS refuses to lock the wheels period. If you are on a real steep dirt
or snow down hill, you will not be able to stop period.
The tree or car at the bottom 'will' stop you fast though. Been there,
watched that, then watched the second and third try with the ABS fuse
pulled. He could then miss the tree.
Just go read the real stats on ABS from the national transportation
safety council that Bill posted.
The insurance companies also have similar studies and stats out.
ABS is crap in emergency situations where you need a fast stop. It
works well if you have the room or time to react. It is plain dangerous
off road.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> On 09 Dec 2003 10:31 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> > Yup, they are just another 'failed' attempt to compensate for lack of
> > driver training.
>
> The increased stopping distances are a reflection of a lack of driver
> training with the new equipment, not of any problem with the ABS systems.
> You and I are not physically capable of outbraking a properly set up
> computer.
>
LOL!
Sure..... and Microsoft has the market cornered....
A total lock of the wheels is the fastest stop, period.
Threshold braking allows some control if needed. People aren't taught
this.
ABS refuses to lock the wheels period. If you are on a real steep dirt
or snow down hill, you will not be able to stop period.
The tree or car at the bottom 'will' stop you fast though. Been there,
watched that, then watched the second and third try with the ABS fuse
pulled. He could then miss the tree.
Just go read the real stats on ABS from the national transportation
safety council that Bill posted.
The insurance companies also have similar studies and stats out.
ABS is crap in emergency situations where you need a fast stop. It
works well if you have the room or time to react. It is plain dangerous
off road.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Order Jeep -> Lose Rebate??
Del, the makers even state ABS has a longer braking distance.
There isn't any debate on that issue, do a google search.
It is not operator error, it is a defective attempt to compensate for
drivers that were never trained how to drive.
Same for air bags. Ever wonder why they are designed to stop an adult
with no seat belt on? To compensate for fools on the roads.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 09 Dec 2003 03:00 PM, Paul Brogren posted the following:
> > Just curious, was it a Grand Caravan? Because the '99 that we use at
> > work has ABS and there's definitely too much braking distance during
> > hard braking.
>
> If you don't know how to operate an ABS equipped vehicle, then yeah, the
> stopping distance will be longer. It is difficult for somebody used to
> driving non ABS rigs to just mash the pedal down and hold it while the
> system does its work. The natural reaction is to let up, since that is
> what you do with conventional brakes, but it is exactly the wrong thing
> to do, and WILL lead to longer stopping distances.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
There isn't any debate on that issue, do a google search.
It is not operator error, it is a defective attempt to compensate for
drivers that were never trained how to drive.
Same for air bags. Ever wonder why they are designed to stop an adult
with no seat belt on? To compensate for fools on the roads.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 09 Dec 2003 03:00 PM, Paul Brogren posted the following:
> > Just curious, was it a Grand Caravan? Because the '99 that we use at
> > work has ABS and there's definitely too much braking distance during
> > hard braking.
>
> If you don't know how to operate an ABS equipped vehicle, then yeah, the
> stopping distance will be longer. It is difficult for somebody used to
> driving non ABS rigs to just mash the pedal down and hold it while the
> system does its work. The natural reaction is to let up, since that is
> what you do with conventional brakes, but it is exactly the wrong thing
> to do, and WILL lead to longer stopping distances.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
