Re: Oil Consumption 2000 JGC V-8
 

Tell me about it: http://www.----------.com/temp/kragen.jpg
Thank you.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

billy ray wrote:
>
> I paid $1 a quart for the Phillips 66 semi-synthetic 10w-30 I've been using
> for a year and a half now. Pennzoil 20w-50 sells for $2.68/qt here.
>
> I bought all the remaining stock, of that oil, when a local retailer decided
> to drop the Phillips 66 line.
>
> I still have 2 full cases left in addition to the loose bottles on the
> garage shelf..
>
> But to use your argument... since synthetic is actually derived from dino
> oil then I'm just explaining there are better refined dino oils with
> superior properties....
>
> If your argument is carried in another direction you are proposing that we
> use crude oil, straight out of the well, in out motors because it requires
> less addition energy in its production.
>
> Errata: The current theory is that oil comes from plant decay, it is
> probably incorrect to refer to, therefore, as dino spit.

Re: Oil Consumption 2000 JGC V-8
 

Tell me about it: http://www.----------.com/temp/kragen.jpg
Thank you.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

billy ray wrote:
>
> I paid $1 a quart for the Phillips 66 semi-synthetic 10w-30 I've been using
> for a year and a half now. Pennzoil 20w-50 sells for $2.68/qt here.
>
> I bought all the remaining stock, of that oil, when a local retailer decided
> to drop the Phillips 66 line.
>
> I still have 2 full cases left in addition to the loose bottles on the
> garage shelf..
>
> But to use your argument... since synthetic is actually derived from dino
> oil then I'm just explaining there are better refined dino oils with
> superior properties....
>
> If your argument is carried in another direction you are proposing that we
> use crude oil, straight out of the well, in out motors because it requires
> less addition energy in its production.
>
> Errata: The current theory is that oil comes from plant decay, it is
> probably incorrect to refer to, therefore, as dino spit.

Re: Oil Consumption 2000 JGC V-8
 

They will be laughing at you from their ten speeds with kiddie trailers
attached.

Earle

"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4533AAA4.DA4A5809@cox.net...
> We have a proposition 87 out here that will tax our gas pumps
> another four billion dollars, and Al Gore is the one who's face we see
> selling it! If this doesn't bring the bleeding heart liberals to their
> senses nothing will. I see windmills, and solar boards, methanol
> stations all over our land, when will they pay for themselves????????
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > Talk about biting the hand that feeds you, considering his daddy's ties
to
> > Big Oil over the years....



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: Oil Consumption 2000 JGC V-8
 

They will be laughing at you from their ten speeds with kiddie trailers
attached.

Earle

"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4533AAA4.DA4A5809@cox.net...
> We have a proposition 87 out here that will tax our gas pumps
> another four billion dollars, and Al Gore is the one who's face we see
> selling it! If this doesn't bring the bleeding heart liberals to their
> senses nothing will. I see windmills, and solar boards, methanol
> stations all over our land, when will they pay for themselves????????
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > Talk about biting the hand that feeds you, considering his daddy's ties
to
> > Big Oil over the years....



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: Oil Consumption 2000 JGC V-8
 

They will be laughing at you from their ten speeds with kiddie trailers
attached.

Earle

"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4533AAA4.DA4A5809@cox.net...
> We have a proposition 87 out here that will tax our gas pumps
> another four billion dollars, and Al Gore is the one who's face we see
> selling it! If this doesn't bring the bleeding heart liberals to their
> senses nothing will. I see windmills, and solar boards, methanol
> stations all over our land, when will they pay for themselves????????
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > Talk about biting the hand that feeds you, considering his daddy's ties
to
> > Big Oil over the years....



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: Oil Consumption 2000 JGC V-8
 

1st Google "ester petrochemical" and look at some of the 149,000 hits that
were returned in 0.05 seconds
Results 1 - 10 of about 149,000 for ester petrochemical. (0.05 seconds)

2nd Using AMSoil as a reference is questionable in itself but using your
own reference (and I will quote in part)
"... Further, the SAE Automotive Lubricants Reference Book, an extensively
peer-reviewed publication, states base oils made through the processes used
to create Shell's hydroisomerized basestock, severe cracking, and reforming
processes may be marketed as "synthetic."

From this we gather that the SAE accepts 'purified Group III oils as fitting
within their definition of the term 'synthetic'.

Further on in your reference we find the lubricant industry agreed with
Castrol's position "...In a statement to Lubricants World, Castrol's legal
counsel said, "The NAD's decision was clearly correct. In accepting
Castrol's position on the appropriate definition of synthetic basestock and
concluding that Castrol Syntec is a fully synthetic oil, the NAD accepted
the overwhelming evidence Castrol presented, which included the opinions of
leading scientists . . .and statements from Shell, Exxon, and other industry
sources. "

A bit further in your reference notes ..."The NAD also relied on the SAE's
rejection of a restrictive definition of the type advanced by Mobil".

And concludes..." In fact, although it had the right to do so, Mobil did not
attempt to appeal the NADS's decision."

As for the change in formulations you certainly know that changes are
commonplace, there are many 'name brand' oils that have changed
substantially.... for example I doubt you would use the SB Pennzoil use
originally used in your T-Bird
(http://new.api.org/certifications/en...rd_English.pdf

and another quote from your reference... "
In response to Mobil's contention that Castrol deceived its consumers by not
informing them of the change in the formulation, the advertiser submitted a
statement by Richard Kabel, a motor oil expert. Kabel asserted that motor
oil manufacturers, including Mobil, regularly make changes in their
formulations without disclosing these changes to consumers. He stated that
the industry certification and licensing program is designed to provide
motor oil manufacturers with the flexibility to modify their formulations as
long as the oil continues to meet industry standards,"



Mobil did offer in its lawsuit definitions from two chemistry professors
(Please note: their arguments were rejected by both the lubricants industry
and the court)

"In the complaint filed by Mobil against Castrol's Syntec, the PAO
manufacturer contended true synthetics had to be formulated from small
molecules subject to a chemical reaction, not built from natural petroleum.

Mobil submitted testimony from Professor J.M. Perez, a lubrication and
technology expert from Pennsylvania State University, who told the NAD that
true synthetics require "the formation of chemical products from simple
well-defined molecules by synthesis or chemical reaction." Perez cited
isomerization, reforming, hydrotreating, and hydrocracking as some of the
many chemical and physical processing steps applied to petroleum to produce
a variety of useful products, but said that they do not produce synthetic
products. He argued that hydroisomerization does not create synthetic
material because it does not create or build molecules, but merely
rearranges the same molecules that were present in the original petroleum
fraction.

Professor O.L. Chapman, an expert in synthetic chemistry from the University
of California, also testified that synthetic materials are constructed from
pure compounds that are themselves not natural and that the resulting
synthetic material has well-defined properties. PAO and ester, he said, are
built from pure small molecules that have already been subject to a chemical
reaction, and are not built from natural petroleum. "



The next few paragraphs that Mobile attempted to use against Castrol
actually reinforce the description I gave for how the 'synthetic oil' is
made but then I have the benefit of (compared to a shyster) knowing a little
bit about chemistry and hindsight as this was happening in the late 90s.

Wishing to stay out of Mobil's lawsuits the SAE dropped their definition of
'synthetic'



The ASTM was consulted... "ASTM D 4175 from the American Society for Testing
and Materials. In this case, synthetic is defined as originating from the
chemical synthesis of relatively pure organic compounds from one or more of
a wide variety of raw materials." Please note the phrases "relatively pure"
and "wide variety of raw materials" and refer back to my definition of
synthetic.



Chevron management has been quoted... "What we really think will come out of
this decision is an awareness that several types of stocks, particularly
some newer UCNOs, justifiably can be considered synthetic and are viable
basestocks for the formulation of top-quality synthetic lubricants. In other
words, the decision sends a message that 'synthetic' is not synonymous with
'PAO'".












"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4533A846.7F87DDD2@cox.net...
> Esters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ester All motor oils contain
> ester: http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/articles7.htm
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> billy ray wrote:
>>
>> Exactly, the same place the esters used in PAO come from (although some
>> are
>> made from natural gas which is also a petrochemical)

Re: Oil Consumption 2000 JGC V-8
 

1st Google "ester petrochemical" and look at some of the 149,000 hits that
were returned in 0.05 seconds
Results 1 - 10 of about 149,000 for ester petrochemical. (0.05 seconds)

2nd Using AMSoil as a reference is questionable in itself but using your
own reference (and I will quote in part)
"... Further, the SAE Automotive Lubricants Reference Book, an extensively
peer-reviewed publication, states base oils made through the processes used
to create Shell's hydroisomerized basestock, severe cracking, and reforming
processes may be marketed as "synthetic."

From this we gather that the SAE accepts 'purified Group III oils as fitting
within their definition of the term 'synthetic'.

Further on in your reference we find the lubricant industry agreed with
Castrol's position "...In a statement to Lubricants World, Castrol's legal
counsel said, "The NAD's decision was clearly correct. In accepting
Castrol's position on the appropriate definition of synthetic basestock and
concluding that Castrol Syntec is a fully synthetic oil, the NAD accepted
the overwhelming evidence Castrol presented, which included the opinions of
leading scientists . . .and statements from Shell, Exxon, and other industry
sources. "

A bit further in your reference notes ..."The NAD also relied on the SAE's
rejection of a restrictive definition of the type advanced by Mobil".

And concludes..." In fact, although it had the right to do so, Mobil did not
attempt to appeal the NADS's decision."

As for the change in formulations you certainly know that changes are
commonplace, there are many 'name brand' oils that have changed
substantially.... for example I doubt you would use the SB Pennzoil use
originally used in your T-Bird
(http://new.api.org/certifications/en...rd_English.pdf

and another quote from your reference... "
In response to Mobil's contention that Castrol deceived its consumers by not
informing them of the change in the formulation, the advertiser submitted a
statement by Richard Kabel, a motor oil expert. Kabel asserted that motor
oil manufacturers, including Mobil, regularly make changes in their
formulations without disclosing these changes to consumers. He stated that
the industry certification and licensing program is designed to provide
motor oil manufacturers with the flexibility to modify their formulations as
long as the oil continues to meet industry standards,"



Mobil did offer in its lawsuit definitions from two chemistry professors
(Please note: their arguments were rejected by both the lubricants industry
and the court)

"In the complaint filed by Mobil against Castrol's Syntec, the PAO
manufacturer contended true synthetics had to be formulated from small
molecules subject to a chemical reaction, not built from natural petroleum.

Mobil submitted testimony from Professor J.M. Perez, a lubrication and
technology expert from Pennsylvania State University, who told the NAD that
true synthetics require "the formation of chemical products from simple
well-defined molecules by synthesis or chemical reaction." Perez cited
isomerization, reforming, hydrotreating, and hydrocracking as some of the
many chemical and physical processing steps applied to petroleum to produce
a variety of useful products, but said that they do not produce synthetic
products. He argued that hydroisomerization does not create synthetic
material because it does not create or build molecules, but merely
rearranges the same molecules that were present in the original petroleum
fraction.

Professor O.L. Chapman, an expert in synthetic chemistry from the University
of California, also testified that synthetic materials are constructed from
pure compounds that are themselves not natural and that the resulting
synthetic material has well-defined properties. PAO and ester, he said, are
built from pure small molecules that have already been subject to a chemical
reaction, and are not built from natural petroleum. "



The next few paragraphs that Mobile attempted to use against Castrol
actually reinforce the description I gave for how the 'synthetic oil' is
made but then I have the benefit of (compared to a shyster) knowing a little
bit about chemistry and hindsight as this was happening in the late 90s.

Wishing to stay out of Mobil's lawsuits the SAE dropped their definition of
'synthetic'



The ASTM was consulted... "ASTM D 4175 from the American Society for Testing
and Materials. In this case, synthetic is defined as originating from the
chemical synthesis of relatively pure organic compounds from one or more of
a wide variety of raw materials." Please note the phrases "relatively pure"
and "wide variety of raw materials" and refer back to my definition of
synthetic.



Chevron management has been quoted... "What we really think will come out of
this decision is an awareness that several types of stocks, particularly
some newer UCNOs, justifiably can be considered synthetic and are viable
basestocks for the formulation of top-quality synthetic lubricants. In other
words, the decision sends a message that 'synthetic' is not synonymous with
'PAO'".












"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4533A846.7F87DDD2@cox.net...
> Esters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ester All motor oils contain
> ester: http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/articles7.htm
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> billy ray wrote:
>>
>> Exactly, the same place the esters used in PAO come from (although some
>> are
>> made from natural gas which is also a petrochemical)

Re: Oil Consumption 2000 JGC V-8
 

1st Google "ester petrochemical" and look at some of the 149,000 hits that
were returned in 0.05 seconds
Results 1 - 10 of about 149,000 for ester petrochemical. (0.05 seconds)

2nd Using AMSoil as a reference is questionable in itself but using your
own reference (and I will quote in part)
"... Further, the SAE Automotive Lubricants Reference Book, an extensively
peer-reviewed publication, states base oils made through the processes used
to create Shell's hydroisomerized basestock, severe cracking, and reforming
processes may be marketed as "synthetic."

From this we gather that the SAE accepts 'purified Group III oils as fitting
within their definition of the term 'synthetic'.

Further on in your reference we find the lubricant industry agreed with
Castrol's position "...In a statement to Lubricants World, Castrol's legal
counsel said, "The NAD's decision was clearly correct. In accepting
Castrol's position on the appropriate definition of synthetic basestock and
concluding that Castrol Syntec is a fully synthetic oil, the NAD accepted
the overwhelming evidence Castrol presented, which included the opinions of
leading scientists . . .and statements from Shell, Exxon, and other industry
sources. "

A bit further in your reference notes ..."The NAD also relied on the SAE's
rejection of a restrictive definition of the type advanced by Mobil".

And concludes..." In fact, although it had the right to do so, Mobil did not
attempt to appeal the NADS's decision."

As for the change in formulations you certainly know that changes are
commonplace, there are many 'name brand' oils that have changed
substantially.... for example I doubt you would use the SB Pennzoil use
originally used in your T-Bird
(http://new.api.org/certifications/en...rd_English.pdf

and another quote from your reference... "
In response to Mobil's contention that Castrol deceived its consumers by not
informing them of the change in the formulation, the advertiser submitted a
statement by Richard Kabel, a motor oil expert. Kabel asserted that motor
oil manufacturers, including Mobil, regularly make changes in their
formulations without disclosing these changes to consumers. He stated that
the industry certification and licensing program is designed to provide
motor oil manufacturers with the flexibility to modify their formulations as
long as the oil continues to meet industry standards,"



Mobil did offer in its lawsuit definitions from two chemistry professors
(Please note: their arguments were rejected by both the lubricants industry
and the court)

"In the complaint filed by Mobil against Castrol's Syntec, the PAO
manufacturer contended true synthetics had to be formulated from small
molecules subject to a chemical reaction, not built from natural petroleum.

Mobil submitted testimony from Professor J.M. Perez, a lubrication and
technology expert from Pennsylvania State University, who told the NAD that
true synthetics require "the formation of chemical products from simple
well-defined molecules by synthesis or chemical reaction." Perez cited
isomerization, reforming, hydrotreating, and hydrocracking as some of the
many chemical and physical processing steps applied to petroleum to produce
a variety of useful products, but said that they do not produce synthetic
products. He argued that hydroisomerization does not create synthetic
material because it does not create or build molecules, but merely
rearranges the same molecules that were present in the original petroleum
fraction.

Professor O.L. Chapman, an expert in synthetic chemistry from the University
of California, also testified that synthetic materials are constructed from
pure compounds that are themselves not natural and that the resulting
synthetic material has well-defined properties. PAO and ester, he said, are
built from pure small molecules that have already been subject to a chemical
reaction, and are not built from natural petroleum. "



The next few paragraphs that Mobile attempted to use against Castrol
actually reinforce the description I gave for how the 'synthetic oil' is
made but then I have the benefit of (compared to a shyster) knowing a little
bit about chemistry and hindsight as this was happening in the late 90s.

Wishing to stay out of Mobil's lawsuits the SAE dropped their definition of
'synthetic'



The ASTM was consulted... "ASTM D 4175 from the American Society for Testing
and Materials. In this case, synthetic is defined as originating from the
chemical synthesis of relatively pure organic compounds from one or more of
a wide variety of raw materials." Please note the phrases "relatively pure"
and "wide variety of raw materials" and refer back to my definition of
synthetic.



Chevron management has been quoted... "What we really think will come out of
this decision is an awareness that several types of stocks, particularly
some newer UCNOs, justifiably can be considered synthetic and are viable
basestocks for the formulation of top-quality synthetic lubricants. In other
words, the decision sends a message that 'synthetic' is not synonymous with
'PAO'".












"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:4533A846.7F87DDD2@cox.net...
> Esters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ester All motor oils contain
> ester: http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/articles7.htm
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> billy ray wrote:
>>
>> Exactly, the same place the esters used in PAO come from (although some
>> are
>> made from natural gas which is also a petrochemical)

Re: Oil Consumption 2000 JGC V-8
 

"Peer reviewed" means "You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." ;^)

Earle

"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:96d1$4533cc6d$422afc51$671@FUSE.NET...
> 1st Google "ester petrochemical" and look at some of the 149,000 hits
that
> were returned in 0.05 seconds
> Results 1 - 10 of about 149,000 for ester petrochemical. (0.05 seconds)
>
> 2nd Using AMSoil as a reference is questionable in itself but using your
> own reference (and I will quote in part)
> "... Further, the SAE Automotive Lubricants Reference Book, an extensively
> peer-reviewed publication, states base oils made through the processes
used
> to create Shell's hydroisomerized basestock, severe cracking, and
reforming
> processes may be marketed as "synthetic."
>
> From this we gather that the SAE accepts 'purified Group III oils as
fitting
> within their definition of the term 'synthetic'.
>
> Further on in your reference we find the lubricant industry agreed with
> Castrol's position "...In a statement to Lubricants World, Castrol's legal
> counsel said, "The NAD's decision was clearly correct. In accepting
> Castrol's position on the appropriate definition of synthetic basestock
and
> concluding that Castrol Syntec is a fully synthetic oil, the NAD accepted
> the overwhelming evidence Castrol presented, which included the opinions
of
> leading scientists . . .and statements from Shell, Exxon, and other
industry
> sources. "
>
> A bit further in your reference notes ..."The NAD also relied on the SAE's
> rejection of a restrictive definition of the type advanced by Mobil".
>
> And concludes..." In fact, although it had the right to do so, Mobil did
not
> attempt to appeal the NADS's decision."
>
> As for the change in formulations you certainly know that changes are
> commonplace, there are many 'name brand' oils that have changed
> substantially.... for example I doubt you would use the SB Pennzoil use
> originally used in your T-Bird
>
(http://new.api.org/certifications/en.../ShelfCard_Eng
lish.pdf
>
> and another quote from your reference... "
> In response to Mobil's contention that Castrol deceived its consumers by
not
> informing them of the change in the formulation, the advertiser submitted
a
> statement by Richard Kabel, a motor oil expert. Kabel asserted that motor
> oil manufacturers, including Mobil, regularly make changes in their
> formulations without disclosing these changes to consumers. He stated that
> the industry certification and licensing program is designed to provide
> motor oil manufacturers with the flexibility to modify their formulations
as
> long as the oil continues to meet industry standards,"
>
>
>
> Mobil did offer in its lawsuit definitions from two chemistry professors
> (Please note: their arguments were rejected by both the lubricants
industry
> and the court)
>
> "In the complaint filed by Mobil against Castrol's Syntec, the PAO
> manufacturer contended true synthetics had to be formulated from small
> molecules subject to a chemical reaction, not built from natural
petroleum.
>
> Mobil submitted testimony from Professor J.M. Perez, a lubrication and
> technology expert from Pennsylvania State University, who told the NAD
that
> true synthetics require "the formation of chemical products from simple
> well-defined molecules by synthesis or chemical reaction." Perez cited
> isomerization, reforming, hydrotreating, and hydrocracking as some of the
> many chemical and physical processing steps applied to petroleum to
produce
> a variety of useful products, but said that they do not produce synthetic
> products. He argued that hydroisomerization does not create synthetic
> material because it does not create or build molecules, but merely
> rearranges the same molecules that were present in the original petroleum
> fraction.
>
> Professor O.L. Chapman, an expert in synthetic chemistry from the
University
> of California, also testified that synthetic materials are constructed
from
> pure compounds that are themselves not natural and that the resulting
> synthetic material has well-defined properties. PAO and ester, he said,
are
> built from pure small molecules that have already been subject to a
chemical
> reaction, and are not built from natural petroleum. "
>
>
>
> The next few paragraphs that Mobile attempted to use against Castrol
> actually reinforce the description I gave for how the 'synthetic oil' is
> made but then I have the benefit of (compared to a shyster) knowing a
little
> bit about chemistry and hindsight as this was happening in the late 90s.
>
> Wishing to stay out of Mobil's lawsuits the SAE dropped their definition
of
> 'synthetic'
>
>
>
> The ASTM was consulted... "ASTM D 4175 from the American Society for
Testing
> and Materials. In this case, synthetic is defined as originating from the
> chemical synthesis of relatively pure organic compounds from one or more
of
> a wide variety of raw materials." Please note the phrases "relatively
pure"
> and "wide variety of raw materials" and refer back to my definition of
> synthetic.
>
>
>
> Chevron management has been quoted... "What we really think will come out
of
> this decision is an awareness that several types of stocks, particularly
> some newer UCNOs, justifiably can be considered synthetic and are viable
> basestocks for the formulation of top-quality synthetic lubricants. In
other
> words, the decision sends a message that 'synthetic' is not synonymous
with
> 'PAO'".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:4533A846.7F87DDD2@cox.net...
> > Esters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ester All motor oils contain
> > ester: http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/articles7.htm
> > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > billy ray wrote:
> >>
> >> Exactly, the same place the esters used in PAO come from (although
some
> >> are
> >> made from natural gas which is also a petrochemical)
>
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: Oil Consumption 2000 JGC V-8
 

"Peer reviewed" means "You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." ;^)

Earle

"billy ray" <billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:96d1$4533cc6d$422afc51$671@FUSE.NET...
> 1st Google "ester petrochemical" and look at some of the 149,000 hits
that
> were returned in 0.05 seconds
> Results 1 - 10 of about 149,000 for ester petrochemical. (0.05 seconds)
>
> 2nd Using AMSoil as a reference is questionable in itself but using your
> own reference (and I will quote in part)
> "... Further, the SAE Automotive Lubricants Reference Book, an extensively
> peer-reviewed publication, states base oils made through the processes
used
> to create Shell's hydroisomerized basestock, severe cracking, and
reforming
> processes may be marketed as "synthetic."
>
> From this we gather that the SAE accepts 'purified Group III oils as
fitting
> within their definition of the term 'synthetic'.
>
> Further on in your reference we find the lubricant industry agreed with
> Castrol's position "...In a statement to Lubricants World, Castrol's legal
> counsel said, "The NAD's decision was clearly correct. In accepting
> Castrol's position on the appropriate definition of synthetic basestock
and
> concluding that Castrol Syntec is a fully synthetic oil, the NAD accepted
> the overwhelming evidence Castrol presented, which included the opinions
of
> leading scientists . . .and statements from Shell, Exxon, and other
industry
> sources. "
>
> A bit further in your reference notes ..."The NAD also relied on the SAE's
> rejection of a restrictive definition of the type advanced by Mobil".
>
> And concludes..." In fact, although it had the right to do so, Mobil did
not
> attempt to appeal the NADS's decision."
>
> As for the change in formulations you certainly know that changes are
> commonplace, there are many 'name brand' oils that have changed
> substantially.... for example I doubt you would use the SB Pennzoil use
> originally used in your T-Bird
>
(http://new.api.org/certifications/en.../ShelfCard_Eng
lish.pdf
>
> and another quote from your reference... "
> In response to Mobil's contention that Castrol deceived its consumers by
not
> informing them of the change in the formulation, the advertiser submitted
a
> statement by Richard Kabel, a motor oil expert. Kabel asserted that motor
> oil manufacturers, including Mobil, regularly make changes in their
> formulations without disclosing these changes to consumers. He stated that
> the industry certification and licensing program is designed to provide
> motor oil manufacturers with the flexibility to modify their formulations
as
> long as the oil continues to meet industry standards,"
>
>
>
> Mobil did offer in its lawsuit definitions from two chemistry professors
> (Please note: their arguments were rejected by both the lubricants
industry
> and the court)
>
> "In the complaint filed by Mobil against Castrol's Syntec, the PAO
> manufacturer contended true synthetics had to be formulated from small
> molecules subject to a chemical reaction, not built from natural
petroleum.
>
> Mobil submitted testimony from Professor J.M. Perez, a lubrication and
> technology expert from Pennsylvania State University, who told the NAD
that
> true synthetics require "the formation of chemical products from simple
> well-defined molecules by synthesis or chemical reaction." Perez cited
> isomerization, reforming, hydrotreating, and hydrocracking as some of the
> many chemical and physical processing steps applied to petroleum to
produce
> a variety of useful products, but said that they do not produce synthetic
> products. He argued that hydroisomerization does not create synthetic
> material because it does not create or build molecules, but merely
> rearranges the same molecules that were present in the original petroleum
> fraction.
>
> Professor O.L. Chapman, an expert in synthetic chemistry from the
University
> of California, also testified that synthetic materials are constructed
from
> pure compounds that are themselves not natural and that the resulting
> synthetic material has well-defined properties. PAO and ester, he said,
are
> built from pure small molecules that have already been subject to a
chemical
> reaction, and are not built from natural petroleum. "
>
>
>
> The next few paragraphs that Mobile attempted to use against Castrol
> actually reinforce the description I gave for how the 'synthetic oil' is
> made but then I have the benefit of (compared to a shyster) knowing a
little
> bit about chemistry and hindsight as this was happening in the late 90s.
>
> Wishing to stay out of Mobil's lawsuits the SAE dropped their definition
of
> 'synthetic'
>
>
>
> The ASTM was consulted... "ASTM D 4175 from the American Society for
Testing
> and Materials. In this case, synthetic is defined as originating from the
> chemical synthesis of relatively pure organic compounds from one or more
of
> a wide variety of raw materials." Please note the phrases "relatively
pure"
> and "wide variety of raw materials" and refer back to my definition of
> synthetic.
>
>
>
> Chevron management has been quoted... "What we really think will come out
of
> this decision is an awareness that several types of stocks, particularly
> some newer UCNOs, justifiably can be considered synthetic and are viable
> basestocks for the formulation of top-quality synthetic lubricants. In
other
> words, the decision sends a message that 'synthetic' is not synonymous
with
> 'PAO'".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:4533A846.7F87DDD2@cox.net...
> > Esters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ester All motor oils contain
> > ester: http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/articles7.htm
> > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > billy ray wrote:
> >>
> >> Exactly, the same place the esters used in PAO come from (although
some
> >> are
> >> made from natural gas which is also a petrochemical)
>
>



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