Hi Dave,
You're thinking of the obsolete Buick V6 from '61, which GM just
lobbed off a couple of cylinders and left the crank quartered, when GM
bought the engine back they corrected that problem, and bent the crank
in thirds. I can tell you the Ford V6 uses a separated journal and throw
for each cylinder.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> The short crankshaft of a V6 is more prone to vibration.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara

 

Hi Dave,
You're thinking of the obsolete Buick V6 from '61, which GM just
lobbed off a couple of cylinders and left the crank quartered, when GM
bought the engine back they corrected that problem, and bent the crank
in thirds. I can tell you the Ford V6 uses a separated journal and throw
for each cylinder.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> The short crankshaft of a V6 is more prone to vibration.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara

 

I'm not sure I follow. In any given gear, isn't an engine going to
give you more power at a higher RPM? Isn't that why the gas pedal is
called the "accelerator"? No one ever says "Hey, I need more power,
so let me take my foot off the gas pedal!" I don't know about you,
but whenever I need more speed or more power, I mash down on the gas
pedal to raise the RPMs....


> I have a BMW with an I6 motor, and it revs to 7000 rpm, the I6 in my Jeep is
> screaming at 3500. The BMW will easily stall from a stop sign on a hill but
> it will cruise for hours at 100+ mph. The Jeep will pull stop signs out of
> the ground at idle, even on a hill, but it resists any attempt to go faster
> than about 70 or 75, and it prefers to cruise at speeds in the 65 range.
>
> So, the I6/V6 question/debate must be refined to the specific V6 and I6
> involved. In the case of the Jeep application (particularly the TJ), the I6
> is the preferred configuration for the reasons I told you about.
>
>
>
>
> "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:b102b6e4.0310010603.6341e03b@posting.google.c om...
> > Very informative. Thank you.
> >
> > "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<vnjv34cppj5q4d@corp.supernews.com>...
> > > "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> > > news:b102b6e4.0309301057.40e84a07@posting.google.c om...
> > > > What makes you think that the V6 is inferior to the I6? I have read
> > > > up on the features of Vs versus Is, and both types seem to have a hard
> > > > core of fans who insist they are better... but from what I as a layman
> > > > have read, neither engine style has an absolute edge over the other
> > > > type.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The rule of thumb is that anything that makes a motor, suspension,
> anything,
> > > better for highway use detracts from the function in an offroad
> environment,
> > > and vice versa. The V6 is a high revving motor that produces its torque
> and
> > > horsepower numbers relatively high in the RPM range, the I6 will produce
> its
> > > torque just above idle speeds.
> > >
> > > Let me illustrate the point, would you rather idle over boulders and
> stumps
> > > while gently feathering the gas to keep from stalling, or would you want
> to
> > > be holding the fuel supplier down so that the engine speed was boosted
> to
> > > the point that control was compromised? I want the torque at idle, not
> half
> > > way up the scale.
> > >
> > > Highway travel demands the torque to be well up on the RPM scale because
> > > that means there is a power reserve that one can tap to climb hills,
> pass
> > > semis, that sort of thing. But, in offhighway travel, one prefers the
> torque
> > > and hp to come in at very low speeds.
> > >
> > > If you purpose to buy a Jeep was to drive cross country on the freeway
> to
> > > get to Grandma's house, you want the V6. But, if you are wanting to go
> trail
> > > riding, stump jumping, and rock crawling, then the V6 is the last motor
> you
> > > will want.
> > >
> > > That said, I am sure that Bill will tell us about the old 225 ci V6.
> This is
> > > a different beast than today's fuel injected high revving V6's. That old
> > > motor was among the most desireable off road motors to ever comme off
> the
> > > line.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > That 3.7L is a V6. The4.0L I6 is what will probably be on it because
> that is
> > > > > the engine that comes on the other TJ models. At least I hope the V6
> is
> not
> > > > > one of the engine options.
> > > > >
> > > > >

 

I'm not sure I follow. In any given gear, isn't an engine going to
give you more power at a higher RPM? Isn't that why the gas pedal is
called the "accelerator"? No one ever says "Hey, I need more power,
so let me take my foot off the gas pedal!" I don't know about you,
but whenever I need more speed or more power, I mash down on the gas
pedal to raise the RPMs....


> I have a BMW with an I6 motor, and it revs to 7000 rpm, the I6 in my Jeep is
> screaming at 3500. The BMW will easily stall from a stop sign on a hill but
> it will cruise for hours at 100+ mph. The Jeep will pull stop signs out of
> the ground at idle, even on a hill, but it resists any attempt to go faster
> than about 70 or 75, and it prefers to cruise at speeds in the 65 range.
>
> So, the I6/V6 question/debate must be refined to the specific V6 and I6
> involved. In the case of the Jeep application (particularly the TJ), the I6
> is the preferred configuration for the reasons I told you about.
>
>
>
>
> "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:b102b6e4.0310010603.6341e03b@posting.google.c om...
> > Very informative. Thank you.
> >
> > "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<vnjv34cppj5q4d@corp.supernews.com>...
> > > "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> > > news:b102b6e4.0309301057.40e84a07@posting.google.c om...
> > > > What makes you think that the V6 is inferior to the I6? I have read
> > > > up on the features of Vs versus Is, and both types seem to have a hard
> > > > core of fans who insist they are better... but from what I as a layman
> > > > have read, neither engine style has an absolute edge over the other
> > > > type.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The rule of thumb is that anything that makes a motor, suspension,
> anything,
> > > better for highway use detracts from the function in an offroad
> environment,
> > > and vice versa. The V6 is a high revving motor that produces its torque
> and
> > > horsepower numbers relatively high in the RPM range, the I6 will produce
> its
> > > torque just above idle speeds.
> > >
> > > Let me illustrate the point, would you rather idle over boulders and
> stumps
> > > while gently feathering the gas to keep from stalling, or would you want
> to
> > > be holding the fuel supplier down so that the engine speed was boosted
> to
> > > the point that control was compromised? I want the torque at idle, not
> half
> > > way up the scale.
> > >
> > > Highway travel demands the torque to be well up on the RPM scale because
> > > that means there is a power reserve that one can tap to climb hills,
> pass
> > > semis, that sort of thing. But, in offhighway travel, one prefers the
> torque
> > > and hp to come in at very low speeds.
> > >
> > > If you purpose to buy a Jeep was to drive cross country on the freeway
> to
> > > get to Grandma's house, you want the V6. But, if you are wanting to go
> trail
> > > riding, stump jumping, and rock crawling, then the V6 is the last motor
> you
> > > will want.
> > >
> > > That said, I am sure that Bill will tell us about the old 225 ci V6.
> This is
> > > a different beast than today's fuel injected high revving V6's. That old
> > > motor was among the most desireable off road motors to ever comme off
> the
> > > line.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > That 3.7L is a V6. The4.0L I6 is what will probably be on it because
> that is
> > > > > the engine that comes on the other TJ models. At least I hope the V6
> is
> not
> > > > > one of the engine options.
> > > > >
> > > > >

 

I'm not sure I follow. In any given gear, isn't an engine going to
give you more power at a higher RPM? Isn't that why the gas pedal is
called the "accelerator"? No one ever says "Hey, I need more power,
so let me take my foot off the gas pedal!" I don't know about you,
but whenever I need more speed or more power, I mash down on the gas
pedal to raise the RPMs....


> I have a BMW with an I6 motor, and it revs to 7000 rpm, the I6 in my Jeep is
> screaming at 3500. The BMW will easily stall from a stop sign on a hill but
> it will cruise for hours at 100+ mph. The Jeep will pull stop signs out of
> the ground at idle, even on a hill, but it resists any attempt to go faster
> than about 70 or 75, and it prefers to cruise at speeds in the 65 range.
>
> So, the I6/V6 question/debate must be refined to the specific V6 and I6
> involved. In the case of the Jeep application (particularly the TJ), the I6
> is the preferred configuration for the reasons I told you about.
>
>
>
>
> "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:b102b6e4.0310010603.6341e03b@posting.google.c om...
> > Very informative. Thank you.
> >
> > "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<vnjv34cppj5q4d@corp.supernews.com>...
> > > "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> > > news:b102b6e4.0309301057.40e84a07@posting.google.c om...
> > > > What makes you think that the V6 is inferior to the I6? I have read
> > > > up on the features of Vs versus Is, and both types seem to have a hard
> > > > core of fans who insist they are better... but from what I as a layman
> > > > have read, neither engine style has an absolute edge over the other
> > > > type.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The rule of thumb is that anything that makes a motor, suspension,
> anything,
> > > better for highway use detracts from the function in an offroad
> environment,
> > > and vice versa. The V6 is a high revving motor that produces its torque
> and
> > > horsepower numbers relatively high in the RPM range, the I6 will produce
> its
> > > torque just above idle speeds.
> > >
> > > Let me illustrate the point, would you rather idle over boulders and
> stumps
> > > while gently feathering the gas to keep from stalling, or would you want
> to
> > > be holding the fuel supplier down so that the engine speed was boosted
> to
> > > the point that control was compromised? I want the torque at idle, not
> half
> > > way up the scale.
> > >
> > > Highway travel demands the torque to be well up on the RPM scale because
> > > that means there is a power reserve that one can tap to climb hills,
> pass
> > > semis, that sort of thing. But, in offhighway travel, one prefers the
> torque
> > > and hp to come in at very low speeds.
> > >
> > > If you purpose to buy a Jeep was to drive cross country on the freeway
> to
> > > get to Grandma's house, you want the V6. But, if you are wanting to go
> trail
> > > riding, stump jumping, and rock crawling, then the V6 is the last motor
> you
> > > will want.
> > >
> > > That said, I am sure that Bill will tell us about the old 225 ci V6.
> This is
> > > a different beast than today's fuel injected high revving V6's. That old
> > > motor was among the most desireable off road motors to ever comme off
> the
> > > line.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > That 3.7L is a V6. The4.0L I6 is what will probably be on it because
> that is
> > > > > the engine that comes on the other TJ models. At least I hope the V6
> is
> not
> > > > > one of the engine options.
> > > > >
> > > > >

 

Hi Joshua,
You're thinking in terms of speed and power on the road, like a
Libby owner. Other Civilian Jeep owners have straight sixes that can
crawl over rocks at say walking speed using probably fifty horse power
and like torque, at one thousand revolutions per minute. Where the Libby
owner's V6 may stall at one thousand revolutions per minute, walking
speed, maybe needing two thousand revolutions per minute to develop the
same fifty horse power, and of course traveling twice as fast over the
rocks and crevices, bouncing it's owner off the roof and breaking an
axle. The Ruby's four to one transfer case will help with their next
year's V6 to perform all most as good as the old '29 Nash, or it's
slightly improved '64 Rambler engine Daimler uses now.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> I'm not sure I follow. In any given gear, isn't an engine going to
> give you more power at a higher RPM? Isn't that why the gas pedal is
> called the "accelerator"? No one ever says "Hey, I need more power,
> so let me take my foot off the gas pedal!" I don't know about you,
> but whenever I need more speed or more power, I mash down on the gas
> pedal to raise the RPMs....

 

Hi Joshua,
You're thinking in terms of speed and power on the road, like a
Libby owner. Other Civilian Jeep owners have straight sixes that can
crawl over rocks at say walking speed using probably fifty horse power
and like torque, at one thousand revolutions per minute. Where the Libby
owner's V6 may stall at one thousand revolutions per minute, walking
speed, maybe needing two thousand revolutions per minute to develop the
same fifty horse power, and of course traveling twice as fast over the
rocks and crevices, bouncing it's owner off the roof and breaking an
axle. The Ruby's four to one transfer case will help with their next
year's V6 to perform all most as good as the old '29 Nash, or it's
slightly improved '64 Rambler engine Daimler uses now.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> I'm not sure I follow. In any given gear, isn't an engine going to
> give you more power at a higher RPM? Isn't that why the gas pedal is
> called the "accelerator"? No one ever says "Hey, I need more power,
> so let me take my foot off the gas pedal!" I don't know about you,
> but whenever I need more speed or more power, I mash down on the gas
> pedal to raise the RPMs....

 

Hi Joshua,
You're thinking in terms of speed and power on the road, like a
Libby owner. Other Civilian Jeep owners have straight sixes that can
crawl over rocks at say walking speed using probably fifty horse power
and like torque, at one thousand revolutions per minute. Where the Libby
owner's V6 may stall at one thousand revolutions per minute, walking
speed, maybe needing two thousand revolutions per minute to develop the
same fifty horse power, and of course traveling twice as fast over the
rocks and crevices, bouncing it's owner off the roof and breaking an
axle. The Ruby's four to one transfer case will help with their next
year's V6 to perform all most as good as the old '29 Nash, or it's
slightly improved '64 Rambler engine Daimler uses now.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Joshua Nelson wrote:
>
> I'm not sure I follow. In any given gear, isn't an engine going to
> give you more power at a higher RPM? Isn't that why the gas pedal is
> called the "accelerator"? No one ever says "Hey, I need more power,
> so let me take my foot off the gas pedal!" I don't know about you,
> but whenever I need more speed or more power, I mash down on the gas
> pedal to raise the RPMs....

 

What you are forgetting about is the high torque at low speed is exactly
what you want when offroading, high torque at high speed is what you want on
the freeway. If the torque comes in at low speeds, then it will be all used
up at high speeds, and the ability to accellerate when you are already doing
70 just isn't there.

In an engine that is primarily intended for highway travel, you want the
torque and hp to be delivered at high engine speeds. This will allow you to
pass other vehicles and climb long hills easily, maybe even speed up while
doing it. In an engine that produces its torque at idle, there won't be any
more torque available at higher speeds. The result is that climbing long
hills may not allow accelleration, and simply maintaining the speed you had
at the bottom is all you can hope for when you get to the top. If you come
up upon slower moving traffic, and have to slow down because the lane next
to you is not empty, you might find that regaining the lost speed is
difficult. But, for the trouble at highway speeds, you can pull stumps at
idle. If your engine is designed primarily for highway work, then using it
in the low speed environment of offroading can be a real chore.

So, I say again, which is better depends upon what you do more. The
discussion isn't "any given gear" it is first gear vs 5th gear. The V6
engine in the Liberty is primarily made for flying low to Grandma's house,
so it will work much better on the freeway than the I6 in the TJ, but not as
good as the I6 when the desire is to go very slow in 1st gear.




"Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:b102b6e4.0310060611.17644956@posting.google.c om...
> I'm not sure I follow. In any given gear, isn't an engine going to
> give you more power at a higher RPM? Isn't that why the gas pedal is
> called the "accelerator"? No one ever says "Hey, I need more power,
> so let me take my foot off the gas pedal!" I don't know about you,
> but whenever I need more speed or more power, I mash down on the gas
> pedal to raise the RPMs....
>
>
> > I have a BMW with an I6 motor, and it revs to 7000 rpm, the I6 in my
Jeep is
> > screaming at 3500. The BMW will easily stall from a stop sign on a hill
but
> > it will cruise for hours at 100+ mph. The Jeep will pull stop signs out
of
> > the ground at idle, even on a hill, but it resists any attempt to go
faster
> > than about 70 or 75, and it prefers to cruise at speeds in the 65 range.
> >
> > So, the I6/V6 question/debate must be refined to the specific V6 and I6
> > involved. In the case of the Jeep application (particularly the TJ), the
I6
> > is the preferred configuration for the reasons I told you about.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> > news:b102b6e4.0310010603.6341e03b@posting.google.c om...
> > > Very informative. Thank you.
> > >
> > > "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:<vnjv34cppj5q4d@corp.supernews.com>...
> > > > "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:b102b6e4.0309301057.40e84a07@posting.google.c om...
> > > > > What makes you think that the V6 is inferior to the I6? I have
read
> > > > > up on the features of Vs versus Is, and both types seem to have a
hard
> > > > > core of fans who insist they are better... but from what I as a
layman
> > > > > have read, neither engine style has an absolute edge over the
other
> > > > > type.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The rule of thumb is that anything that makes a motor, suspension,
> > anything,
> > > > better for highway use detracts from the function in an offroad
> > environment,
> > > > and vice versa. The V6 is a high revving motor that produces its
torque
> > and
> > > > horsepower numbers relatively high in the RPM range, the I6 will
produce
> > its
> > > > torque just above idle speeds.
> > > >
> > > > Let me illustrate the point, would you rather idle over boulders and
> > stumps
> > > > while gently feathering the gas to keep from stalling, or would you
want
> > to
> > > > be holding the fuel supplier down so that the engine speed was
boosted
> > to
> > > > the point that control was compromised? I want the torque at idle,
not
> > half
> > > > way up the scale.
> > > >
> > > > Highway travel demands the torque to be well up on the RPM scale
because
> > > > that means there is a power reserve that one can tap to climb hills,
> > pass
> > > > semis, that sort of thing. But, in offhighway travel, one prefers
the
> > torque
> > > > and hp to come in at very low speeds.
> > > >
> > > > If you purpose to buy a Jeep was to drive cross country on the
freeway
> > to
> > > > get to Grandma's house, you want the V6. But, if you are wanting to
go
> > trail
> > > > riding, stump jumping, and rock crawling, then the V6 is the last
motor
> > you
> > > > will want.
> > > >
> > > > That said, I am sure that Bill will tell us about the old 225 ci V6.
> > This is
> > > > a different beast than today's fuel injected high revving V6's. That
old
> > > > motor was among the most desireable off road motors to ever comme
off
> > the
> > > > line.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > That 3.7L is a V6. The4.0L I6 is what will probably be on it
because
> > that is
> > > > > > the engine that comes on the other TJ models. At least I hope
the V6
> > is
> > not
> > > > > > one of the engine options.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >

 

What you are forgetting about is the high torque at low speed is exactly
what you want when offroading, high torque at high speed is what you want on
the freeway. If the torque comes in at low speeds, then it will be all used
up at high speeds, and the ability to accellerate when you are already doing
70 just isn't there.

In an engine that is primarily intended for highway travel, you want the
torque and hp to be delivered at high engine speeds. This will allow you to
pass other vehicles and climb long hills easily, maybe even speed up while
doing it. In an engine that produces its torque at idle, there won't be any
more torque available at higher speeds. The result is that climbing long
hills may not allow accelleration, and simply maintaining the speed you had
at the bottom is all you can hope for when you get to the top. If you come
up upon slower moving traffic, and have to slow down because the lane next
to you is not empty, you might find that regaining the lost speed is
difficult. But, for the trouble at highway speeds, you can pull stumps at
idle. If your engine is designed primarily for highway work, then using it
in the low speed environment of offroading can be a real chore.

So, I say again, which is better depends upon what you do more. The
discussion isn't "any given gear" it is first gear vs 5th gear. The V6
engine in the Liberty is primarily made for flying low to Grandma's house,
so it will work much better on the freeway than the I6 in the TJ, but not as
good as the I6 when the desire is to go very slow in 1st gear.




"Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:b102b6e4.0310060611.17644956@posting.google.c om...
> I'm not sure I follow. In any given gear, isn't an engine going to
> give you more power at a higher RPM? Isn't that why the gas pedal is
> called the "accelerator"? No one ever says "Hey, I need more power,
> so let me take my foot off the gas pedal!" I don't know about you,
> but whenever I need more speed or more power, I mash down on the gas
> pedal to raise the RPMs....
>
>
> > I have a BMW with an I6 motor, and it revs to 7000 rpm, the I6 in my
Jeep is
> > screaming at 3500. The BMW will easily stall from a stop sign on a hill
but
> > it will cruise for hours at 100+ mph. The Jeep will pull stop signs out
of
> > the ground at idle, even on a hill, but it resists any attempt to go
faster
> > than about 70 or 75, and it prefers to cruise at speeds in the 65 range.
> >
> > So, the I6/V6 question/debate must be refined to the specific V6 and I6
> > involved. In the case of the Jeep application (particularly the TJ), the
I6
> > is the preferred configuration for the reasons I told you about.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> > news:b102b6e4.0310010603.6341e03b@posting.google.c om...
> > > Very informative. Thank you.
> > >
> > > "Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:<vnjv34cppj5q4d@corp.supernews.com>...
> > > > "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:b102b6e4.0309301057.40e84a07@posting.google.c om...
> > > > > What makes you think that the V6 is inferior to the I6? I have
read
> > > > > up on the features of Vs versus Is, and both types seem to have a
hard
> > > > > core of fans who insist they are better... but from what I as a
layman
> > > > > have read, neither engine style has an absolute edge over the
other
> > > > > type.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The rule of thumb is that anything that makes a motor, suspension,
> > anything,
> > > > better for highway use detracts from the function in an offroad
> > environment,
> > > > and vice versa. The V6 is a high revving motor that produces its
torque
> > and
> > > > horsepower numbers relatively high in the RPM range, the I6 will
produce
> > its
> > > > torque just above idle speeds.
> > > >
> > > > Let me illustrate the point, would you rather idle over boulders and
> > stumps
> > > > while gently feathering the gas to keep from stalling, or would you
want
> > to
> > > > be holding the fuel supplier down so that the engine speed was
boosted
> > to
> > > > the point that control was compromised? I want the torque at idle,
not
> > half
> > > > way up the scale.
> > > >
> > > > Highway travel demands the torque to be well up on the RPM scale
because
> > > > that means there is a power reserve that one can tap to climb hills,
> > pass
> > > > semis, that sort of thing. But, in offhighway travel, one prefers
the
> > torque
> > > > and hp to come in at very low speeds.
> > > >
> > > > If you purpose to buy a Jeep was to drive cross country on the
freeway
> > to
> > > > get to Grandma's house, you want the V6. But, if you are wanting to
go
> > trail
> > > > riding, stump jumping, and rock crawling, then the V6 is the last
motor
> > you
> > > > will want.
> > > >
> > > > That said, I am sure that Bill will tell us about the old 225 ci V6.
> > This is
> > > > a different beast than today's fuel injected high revving V6's. That
old
> > > > motor was among the most desireable off road motors to ever comme
off
> > the
> > > > line.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > That 3.7L is a V6. The4.0L I6 is what will probably be on it
because
> > that is
> > > > > > the engine that comes on the other TJ models. At least I hope
the V6
> > is
> > not
> > > > > > one of the engine options.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >