Matt Macchiarolo

In article <13efcc39.0311231857.57dfb03@posting.google.com> , jcwelch@hal-pc.org
(John Welch) writes:

>I planted this Wrangler down to the frame in mud on the way to the
>beaver dam back Christmas of 01. My wife, her sister and wife's
>brother in law were passengers and got to watch the festivities.

Take your Liberty out there and see if it gets stuck any quicker.

Maybe the kind of off-pavement driving you do seems to give you the results
you've experienced. I agree with Nathan that you haven't fully tested the
capabilities of your TJ, stock or not. Getting it stuck once isn't a true test,
IMHO. And for what it's worth I think the Liberty is more capable than most on
this NG gives it credit for, but I think a stock TJ is still overall a superior
off-road vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html

Matt Macchiarolo

In article <13efcc39.0311231857.57dfb03@posting.google.com> , jcwelch@hal-pc.org
(John Welch) writes:

>I planted this Wrangler down to the frame in mud on the way to the
>beaver dam back Christmas of 01. My wife, her sister and wife's
>brother in law were passengers and got to watch the festivities.

Take your Liberty out there and see if it gets stuck any quicker.

Maybe the kind of off-pavement driving you do seems to give you the results
you've experienced. I agree with Nathan that you haven't fully tested the
capabilities of your TJ, stock or not. Getting it stuck once isn't a true test,
IMHO. And for what it's worth I think the Liberty is more capable than most on
this NG gives it credit for, but I think a stock TJ is still overall a superior
off-road vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html

Matt Macchiarolo

In article <13efcc39.0311231857.57dfb03@posting.google.com> , jcwelch@hal-pc.org
(John Welch) writes:

>I planted this Wrangler down to the frame in mud on the way to the
>beaver dam back Christmas of 01. My wife, her sister and wife's
>brother in law were passengers and got to watch the festivities.

Take your Liberty out there and see if it gets stuck any quicker.

Maybe the kind of off-pavement driving you do seems to give you the results
you've experienced. I agree with Nathan that you haven't fully tested the
capabilities of your TJ, stock or not. Getting it stuck once isn't a true test,
IMHO. And for what it's worth I think the Liberty is more capable than most on
this NG gives it credit for, but I think a stock TJ is still overall a superior
off-road vehicle.
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html

Nathan Collier

"John Welch" <jcwelch@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
news:13efcc39.0311231857.57dfb03@posting.google.co m...
> I am starting to wonder though, am I the only one in this news group
> that has taken a Liberty off road?

ive only seen 1 or 2 on the trail, and ive _never_ seen one on an
"aggressive" trail such as tellico. aside from a toyota tacoma, im sure the
liberty is comparable to most any IFS 4x4 on the market in terms of off road
capability. that said, theres nothing "special" about it that would rank it
even with the tj, arguably the most capable swb jeep ever built (stock).
the clearance (for the wheelbase) is lacking (even before daimler lowered it
2 more inches in '02), the IFS components are "short arm" components..... to
say its comparable to a wrangler says youve never pushed the tj to its
limits. getting stuck in the mud isnt a true test of off road prowess. run
them both through the rubicon trail (without stacking rocks) and tell me
theyre even. i realize trails such as that are a minority and very few ever
see them, but its the capabilities on those very trails that sets jeep apart
from the other soft-roaders.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com

Nathan Collier

"John Welch" <jcwelch@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
news:13efcc39.0311231857.57dfb03@posting.google.co m...
> I am starting to wonder though, am I the only one in this news group
> that has taken a Liberty off road?

ive only seen 1 or 2 on the trail, and ive _never_ seen one on an
"aggressive" trail such as tellico. aside from a toyota tacoma, im sure the
liberty is comparable to most any IFS 4x4 on the market in terms of off road
capability. that said, theres nothing "special" about it that would rank it
even with the tj, arguably the most capable swb jeep ever built (stock).
the clearance (for the wheelbase) is lacking (even before daimler lowered it
2 more inches in '02), the IFS components are "short arm" components..... to
say its comparable to a wrangler says youve never pushed the tj to its
limits. getting stuck in the mud isnt a true test of off road prowess. run
them both through the rubicon trail (without stacking rocks) and tell me
theyre even. i realize trails such as that are a minority and very few ever
see them, but its the capabilities on those very trails that sets jeep apart
from the other soft-roaders.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com

Nathan Collier

"John Welch" <jcwelch@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
news:13efcc39.0311231857.57dfb03@posting.google.co m...
> I am starting to wonder though, am I the only one in this news group
> that has taken a Liberty off road?

ive only seen 1 or 2 on the trail, and ive _never_ seen one on an
"aggressive" trail such as tellico. aside from a toyota tacoma, im sure the
liberty is comparable to most any IFS 4x4 on the market in terms of off road
capability. that said, theres nothing "special" about it that would rank it
even with the tj, arguably the most capable swb jeep ever built (stock).
the clearance (for the wheelbase) is lacking (even before daimler lowered it
2 more inches in '02), the IFS components are "short arm" components..... to
say its comparable to a wrangler says youve never pushed the tj to its
limits. getting stuck in the mud isnt a true test of off road prowess. run
them both through the rubicon trail (without stacking rocks) and tell me
theyre even. i realize trails such as that are a minority and very few ever
see them, but its the capabilities on those very trails that sets jeep apart
from the other soft-roaders.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com

twaldron

I saw one on Engineer Pass in CO. I was stunned to say the least.
Engineer isn't the most difficult trail in CO, to say the least, but
it's no mall parking lot either.

Nathan Collier wrote:

> "John Welch" <jcwelch@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
> news:13efcc39.0311231857.57dfb03@posting.google.co m...
>
>>I am starting to wonder though, am I the only one in this news group
>>that has taken a Liberty off road?
>
>
> ive only seen 1 or 2 on the trail, and ive _never_ seen one on an
> "aggressive" trail such as tellico. aside from a toyota tacoma, im sure the
> liberty is comparable to most any IFS 4x4 on the market in terms of off road
> capability. that said, theres nothing "special" about it that would rank it
> even with the tj, arguably the most capable swb jeep ever built (stock).
> the clearance (for the wheelbase) is lacking (even before daimler lowered it
> 2 more inches in '02), the IFS components are "short arm" components..... to
> say its comparable to a wrangler says youve never pushed the tj to its
> limits. getting stuck in the mud isnt a true test of off road prowess. run
> them both through the rubicon trail (without stacking rocks) and tell me
> theyre even. i realize trails such as that are a minority and very few ever
> see them, but its the capabilities on those very trails that sets jeep apart
> from the other soft-roaders.
>

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

twaldron

I saw one on Engineer Pass in CO. I was stunned to say the least.
Engineer isn't the most difficult trail in CO, to say the least, but
it's no mall parking lot either.

Nathan Collier wrote:

> "John Welch" <jcwelch@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
> news:13efcc39.0311231857.57dfb03@posting.google.co m...
>
>>I am starting to wonder though, am I the only one in this news group
>>that has taken a Liberty off road?
>
>
> ive only seen 1 or 2 on the trail, and ive _never_ seen one on an
> "aggressive" trail such as tellico. aside from a toyota tacoma, im sure the
> liberty is comparable to most any IFS 4x4 on the market in terms of off road
> capability. that said, theres nothing "special" about it that would rank it
> even with the tj, arguably the most capable swb jeep ever built (stock).
> the clearance (for the wheelbase) is lacking (even before daimler lowered it
> 2 more inches in '02), the IFS components are "short arm" components..... to
> say its comparable to a wrangler says youve never pushed the tj to its
> limits. getting stuck in the mud isnt a true test of off road prowess. run
> them both through the rubicon trail (without stacking rocks) and tell me
> theyre even. i realize trails such as that are a minority and very few ever
> see them, but its the capabilities on those very trails that sets jeep apart
> from the other soft-roaders.
>

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

twaldron

I saw one on Engineer Pass in CO. I was stunned to say the least.
Engineer isn't the most difficult trail in CO, to say the least, but
it's no mall parking lot either.

Nathan Collier wrote:

> "John Welch" <jcwelch@hal-pc.org> wrote in message
> news:13efcc39.0311231857.57dfb03@posting.google.co m...
>
>>I am starting to wonder though, am I the only one in this news group
>>that has taken a Liberty off road?
>
>
> ive only seen 1 or 2 on the trail, and ive _never_ seen one on an
> "aggressive" trail such as tellico. aside from a toyota tacoma, im sure the
> liberty is comparable to most any IFS 4x4 on the market in terms of off road
> capability. that said, theres nothing "special" about it that would rank it
> even with the tj, arguably the most capable swb jeep ever built (stock).
> the clearance (for the wheelbase) is lacking (even before daimler lowered it
> 2 more inches in '02), the IFS components are "short arm" components..... to
> say its comparable to a wrangler says youve never pushed the tj to its
> limits. getting stuck in the mud isnt a true test of off road prowess. run
> them both through the rubicon trail (without stacking rocks) and tell me
> theyre even. i realize trails such as that are a minority and very few ever
> see them, but its the capabilities on those very trails that sets jeep apart
> from the other soft-roaders.
>

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

Eastward Bound

"Don" <Not@This.Address> wrote in message news:<w1Wvb.993$ZE1.110@fed1read04>...
> If a Ford is a 4, then I'd have to say a Jeep would be about a -20. Maybe
> the CJ a -10.
>
> Note I'm note talking about off road capability - no arguments there - most
> Jeeps do well there. Note I say most Jeeps - the Liberty being the
> exception. Just plain reliability, mechanical, etc, the Jeeps fall apart.
>
> Sorry to you Jeep lovers - just from my and every one I know experience.
>
>
>
>
> "Paul Thomas" <Paul.Thomas2@cingular.com> wrote in message
> news:8f958472.0311192211.e8cddbb@posting.google.co m...
> > I am thinking of buying a Jeep Liberty. There had been a lot of
> > discussion about this SUV in the newsgroups. I understand overall it
> > is a pretty good vehicle. There are a couple of things about liberty
> > that I would like to know. Safety and Reliability.
> >
> > Safety : How safe is it? I am new to SUVs and I hear that SUVs are
> > vulnerable to tip over. How is jeep's record on this? How about other
> > safety features?
> >
> >
> > Reliability : How reliable is Liberty? I am going to use it only to
> > commute to and from work and may be some camping. Strictly no rock
> > climbing or extreme off roading of any sort. If you give Honda a
> > reliability rating of 10 and a Ford a reliability rating of 4 how
> > would you rate Liberty? ( Remember no offroading). Does the parts
> > start malfunctioning after a couple of years? (I hear Nissan Xterra
> > has this problem )
> >
> >
> > I am a novice in autos. What is the deal with independent front
> > suspension and solid rear axle? How does it affect comfort and
> > reliability?
> >
> > Thank you all for your help,
> >
> > Paul Thomas


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