Re: Independent Mechanics
 

In article <P7XGi.2933$ZA5.999@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"Big Tex" <big_tex_1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> A dealer mechanic is usually factory trained where as most independent shop
> mechanics aren't,

A ridiculous statement with no basis in fact.

Nowdays, this factory training amounts to nothing more than the
mechanic sitting at a computer terminal in the dealership playing
'guess the answer.' If real live instructor training, odds are
it's a contract teacher from/at a local technical college.
<rolls eyes>

> ergo, they usually charge less per hour for labor

Dealerships charge more per hour because their overhead costs are
higher.

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

In article <P7XGi.2933$ZA5.999@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"Big Tex" <big_tex_1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> A dealer mechanic is usually factory trained where as most independent shop
> mechanics aren't,

A ridiculous statement with no basis in fact.

Nowdays, this factory training amounts to nothing more than the
mechanic sitting at a computer terminal in the dealership playing
'guess the answer.' If real live instructor training, odds are
it's a contract teacher from/at a local technical college.
<rolls eyes>

> ergo, they usually charge less per hour for labor

Dealerships charge more per hour because their overhead costs are
higher.

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

In article <P7XGi.2933$ZA5.999@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"Big Tex" <big_tex_1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> A dealer mechanic is usually factory trained where as most independent shop
> mechanics aren't,

A ridiculous statement with no basis in fact.

Nowdays, this factory training amounts to nothing more than the
mechanic sitting at a computer terminal in the dealership playing
'guess the answer.' If real live instructor training, odds are
it's a contract teacher from/at a local technical college.
<rolls eyes>

> ergo, they usually charge less per hour for labor

Dealerships charge more per hour because their overhead costs are
higher.

Follow-up to Independent Mechanics
 

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:28:06 -0400, reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:

>bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
>other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
>repairs.
>
>daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
>trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
>not well at part throttle.
>
>so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
>the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
>out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
>put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
>carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
>jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
>full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
>phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
>so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
>three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
>up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
>prices, no upselling etc.
>
>today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
>Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
>was on the trip.
>
>oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
>belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
>anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
>fixes.
>
>so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
>$108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
>ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
>1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
>MAP Sensor $110
>Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
>Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
>hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
>replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
>so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
>out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
>particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
>business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
>daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
>i don't think he gets it.
>
>thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
>got home.
>
>reboot
>
>
>---
>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
>Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
>http://www.avast.com
>
>

job done, car runs well.

they didn't drop the diagnostics charge.

don't mind paying for professional services, especially jobs i don't
have the tools or experience for.

just bugs me paying somebody $$$ for doing a job I would have easily
and quickly done if I were in town.

if your on the west-side of metro detroit i do recommend this guy.


---
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Virus Database (VPS): 000774-7, 09/15/2007
Tested on: 9/15/2007 8:09:25 PM
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Follow-up to Independent Mechanics
 

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:28:06 -0400, reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:

>bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
>other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
>repairs.
>
>daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
>trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
>not well at part throttle.
>
>so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
>the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
>out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
>put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
>carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
>jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
>full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
>phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
>so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
>three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
>up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
>prices, no upselling etc.
>
>today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
>Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
>was on the trip.
>
>oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
>belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
>anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
>fixes.
>
>so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
>$108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
>ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
>1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
>MAP Sensor $110
>Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
>Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
>hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
>replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
>so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
>out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
>particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
>business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
>daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
>i don't think he gets it.
>
>thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
>got home.
>
>reboot
>
>
>---
>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
>Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
>http://www.avast.com
>
>

job done, car runs well.

they didn't drop the diagnostics charge.

don't mind paying for professional services, especially jobs i don't
have the tools or experience for.

just bugs me paying somebody $$$ for doing a job I would have easily
and quickly done if I were in town.

if your on the west-side of metro detroit i do recommend this guy.


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000774-7, 09/15/2007
Tested on: 9/15/2007 8:09:25 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Follow-up to Independent Mechanics
 

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:28:06 -0400, reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:

>bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
>other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
>repairs.
>
>daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
>trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
>not well at part throttle.
>
>so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
>the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
>out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
>put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
>carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
>jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
>full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
>phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
>so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
>three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
>up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
>prices, no upselling etc.
>
>today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
>Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
>was on the trip.
>
>oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
>belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
>anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
>fixes.
>
>so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
>$108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
>ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
>1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
>MAP Sensor $110
>Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
>Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
>hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
>replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
>so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
>out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
>particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
>business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
>daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
>i don't think he gets it.
>
>thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
>got home.
>
>reboot
>
>
>---
>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
>Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
>http://www.avast.com
>
>

job done, car runs well.

they didn't drop the diagnostics charge.

don't mind paying for professional services, especially jobs i don't
have the tools or experience for.

just bugs me paying somebody $$$ for doing a job I would have easily
and quickly done if I were in town.

if your on the west-side of metro detroit i do recommend this guy.


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000774-7, 09/15/2007
Tested on: 9/15/2007 8:09:25 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Follow-up to Independent Mechanics
 

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:28:06 -0400, reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:

>bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
>other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
>repairs.
>
>daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
>trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
>not well at part throttle.
>
>so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
>the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
>out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
>put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
>carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
>jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
>full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
>phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
>so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
>three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
>up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
>prices, no upselling etc.
>
>today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
>Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
>was on the trip.
>
>oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
>belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
>anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
>fixes.
>
>so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
>$108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
>ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
>1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
>MAP Sensor $110
>Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
>Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
>hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
>replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
>so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
>out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
>particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
>business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
>daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
>i don't think he gets it.
>
>thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
>got home.
>
>reboot
>
>
>---
>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
>Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
>http://www.avast.com
>
>

job done, car runs well.

they didn't drop the diagnostics charge.

don't mind paying for professional services, especially jobs i don't
have the tools or experience for.

just bugs me paying somebody $$$ for doing a job I would have easily
and quickly done if I were in town.

if your on the west-side of metro detroit i do recommend this guy.


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000774-7, 09/15/2007
Tested on: 9/15/2007 8:09:25 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

Re: Follow-up to Independent Mechanics
 

In article <djsoe3tn5u9lqakdp6pvv7qft51jla2s6f@4ax.com>,
reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:

> job done, car runs well.

Good for them.

> they didn't drop the diagnostics charge.

Good for them.

> don't mind paying for professional services, especially jobs i don't
> have the tools or experience for.

Well, that _does_ appear to be the case here.

> just bugs me paying somebody $$$ for doing a job I would have easily
> and quickly done if I were in town.

And what about when she (daughter) was in town?

Seems to be; your venting is/was you taking your inabilities out
on that repair shop.

Re: Follow-up to Independent Mechanics
 

In article <djsoe3tn5u9lqakdp6pvv7qft51jla2s6f@4ax.com>,
reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:

> job done, car runs well.

Good for them.

> they didn't drop the diagnostics charge.

Good for them.

> don't mind paying for professional services, especially jobs i don't
> have the tools or experience for.

Well, that _does_ appear to be the case here.

> just bugs me paying somebody $$$ for doing a job I would have easily
> and quickly done if I were in town.

And what about when she (daughter) was in town?

Seems to be; your venting is/was you taking your inabilities out
on that repair shop.

Re: Follow-up to Independent Mechanics
 

In article <djsoe3tn5u9lqakdp6pvv7qft51jla2s6f@4ax.com>,
reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:

> job done, car runs well.

Good for them.

> they didn't drop the diagnostics charge.

Good for them.

> don't mind paying for professional services, especially jobs i don't
> have the tools or experience for.

Well, that _does_ appear to be the case here.

> just bugs me paying somebody $$$ for doing a job I would have easily
> and quickly done if I were in town.

And what about when she (daughter) was in town?

Seems to be; your venting is/was you taking your inabilities out
on that repair shop.