Re: Independent Mechanics
 

"reboot" <reboot@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:msime3dt173icbmb0b5keim00ruoj2gd07@4ax.com...
> bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
> other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
> repairs.
>
> daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
> trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
> not well at part throttle.
>
> so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
> the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
> out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
> put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
> carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
> jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
> full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
> phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
> so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
> three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
> up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
> prices, no upselling etc.
>
> today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
> Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
> was on the trip.
>
> oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
> belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
> anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
> fixes.
>
> so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
> $108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
> ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
> MAP Sensor $110
> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
> so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
> out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
> particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
> business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
> daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
> i don't think he gets it.
>
> thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
> got home.
>
> reboot
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
> Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>

Just a question on the "upsold" comment.
If he hadn't told your daughter or wife about the worn serpentine belt, and
she left with it later breaking, and stranding her somewhere, or worse
causing an accident from lack of power steering, would you have been mad at
the garage for not telling you it had a worn serpentine belt?

Due to the latest MAP guidelines, most places are obligated to tell of what
they find, it is up to the customer to make a (n) (informed) decision.

Spdloader

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

"reboot" <reboot@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:msime3dt173icbmb0b5keim00ruoj2gd07@4ax.com...
> bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
> other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
> repairs.
>
> daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
> trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
> not well at part throttle.
>
> so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
> the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
> out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
> put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
> carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
> jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
> full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
> phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
> so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
> three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
> up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
> prices, no upselling etc.
>
> today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
> Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
> was on the trip.
>
> oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
> belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
> anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
> fixes.
>
> so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
> $108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
> ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
> MAP Sensor $110
> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
> so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
> out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
> particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
> business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
> daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
> i don't think he gets it.
>
> thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
> got home.
>
> reboot
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
> Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>

Just a question on the "upsold" comment.
If he hadn't told your daughter or wife about the worn serpentine belt, and
she left with it later breaking, and stranding her somewhere, or worse
causing an accident from lack of power steering, would you have been mad at
the garage for not telling you it had a worn serpentine belt?

Due to the latest MAP guidelines, most places are obligated to tell of what
they find, it is up to the customer to make a (n) (informed) decision.

Spdloader

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

"reboot" <reboot@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:msime3dt173icbmb0b5keim00ruoj2gd07@4ax.com...
> bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
> other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
> repairs.
>
> daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
> trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
> not well at part throttle.
>
> so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
> the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
> out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
> put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
> carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
> jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
> full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
> phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
> so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
> three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
> up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
> prices, no upselling etc.
>
> today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
> Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
> was on the trip.
>
> oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
> belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
> anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
> fixes.
>
> so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
> $108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
> ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
> MAP Sensor $110
> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
> so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
> out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
> particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
> business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
> daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
> i don't think he gets it.
>
> thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
> got home.
>
> reboot
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
> Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>

Just a question on the "upsold" comment.
If he hadn't told your daughter or wife about the worn serpentine belt, and
she left with it later breaking, and stranding her somewhere, or worse
causing an accident from lack of power steering, would you have been mad at
the garage for not telling you it had a worn serpentine belt?

Due to the latest MAP guidelines, most places are obligated to tell of what
they find, it is up to the customer to make a (n) (informed) decision.

Spdloader

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

reboot wrote:

> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
> MAP Sensor $110
> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes

Your looking at "standard labor rates" or "book" that almost
all places use to determine labor costs. Yes, it's more than
what it should take to do the job, but includes prep, install,
cleanup, rework, etc. The mechanic can make more or less
depending on how good/quick they are.

Not disagreeing with you on the cost, just clarifying where
it comes from.

Thing is, most places I go take the diagnostics off the bill
when you get the work done there.

--
DougW

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

reboot wrote:

> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
> MAP Sensor $110
> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes

Your looking at "standard labor rates" or "book" that almost
all places use to determine labor costs. Yes, it's more than
what it should take to do the job, but includes prep, install,
cleanup, rework, etc. The mechanic can make more or less
depending on how good/quick they are.

Not disagreeing with you on the cost, just clarifying where
it comes from.

Thing is, most places I go take the diagnostics off the bill
when you get the work done there.

--
DougW

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

reboot wrote:

> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
> MAP Sensor $110
> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes

Your looking at "standard labor rates" or "book" that almost
all places use to determine labor costs. Yes, it's more than
what it should take to do the job, but includes prep, install,
cleanup, rework, etc. The mechanic can make more or less
depending on how good/quick they are.

Not disagreeing with you on the cost, just clarifying where
it comes from.

Thing is, most places I go take the diagnostics off the bill
when you get the work done there.

--
DougW

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

reboot wrote:

> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
> MAP Sensor $110
> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes

Your looking at "standard labor rates" or "book" that almost
all places use to determine labor costs. Yes, it's more than
what it should take to do the job, but includes prep, install,
cleanup, rework, etc. The mechanic can make more or less
depending on how good/quick they are.

Not disagreeing with you on the cost, just clarifying where
it comes from.

Thing is, most places I go take the diagnostics off the bill
when you get the work done there.

--
DougW

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:28:06 -0400, reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:

>bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
>other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
>repairs.
>
>daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
>trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
>not well at part throttle.
>
>so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
>the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
>out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
>put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
>carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
>jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
>full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
>phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
>so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
>three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
>up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
>prices, no upselling etc.
>
>today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
>Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
>was on the trip.
>
>oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
>belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
>anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
>fixes.
>
>so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
>$108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
>ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
>1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
>MAP Sensor $110
>Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
>Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
>hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
>replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
>so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
>out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
>particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
>business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
>daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
>i don't think he gets it.
>
>thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
>got home.

Or you should have diagnosed and repaired it properly the first time.

>
>reboot
>
>
>---
>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
>Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
>http://www.avast.com
>
>

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:28:06 -0400, reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:

>bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
>other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
>repairs.
>
>daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
>trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
>not well at part throttle.
>
>so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
>the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
>out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
>put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
>carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
>jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
>full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
>phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
>so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
>three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
>up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
>prices, no upselling etc.
>
>today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
>Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
>was on the trip.
>
>oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
>belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
>anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
>fixes.
>
>so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
>$108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
>ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
>1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
>MAP Sensor $110
>Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
>Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
>hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
>replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
>so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
>out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
>particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
>business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
>daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
>i don't think he gets it.
>
>thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
>got home.

Or you should have diagnosed and repaired it properly the first time.

>
>reboot
>
>
>---
>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
>Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
>http://www.avast.com
>
>

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:28:06 -0400, reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:

>bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
>other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
>repairs.
>
>daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
>trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
>not well at part throttle.
>
>so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
>the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
>out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
>put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
>carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
>jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
>full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
>phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
>so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
>three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
>up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
>prices, no upselling etc.
>
>today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
>Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
>was on the trip.
>
>oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
>belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
>anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
>fixes.
>
>so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
>$108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
>ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
>1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
>MAP Sensor $110
>Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
>Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
>hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
>replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
>so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
>out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
>particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
>business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
>daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
>i don't think he gets it.
>
>thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
>got home.

Or you should have diagnosed and repaired it properly the first time.

>
>reboot
>
>
>---
>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
>Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
>http://www.avast.com
>
>