Re: Independent Mechanics
 

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:28:06 -0400, reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:

>bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
>other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
>repairs.
>
>daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
>trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
>not well at part throttle.
>
>so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
>the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
>out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
>put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
>carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
>jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
>full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
>phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
>so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
>three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
>up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
>prices, no upselling etc.
>
>today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
>Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
>was on the trip.
>
>oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
>belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
>anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
>fixes.
>
>so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
>$108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
>ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
>1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
>MAP Sensor $110
>Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
>Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
>hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
>replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
>so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
>out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
>particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
>business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
>daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
>i don't think he gets it.
>
>thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
>got home.

Or you should have diagnosed and repaired it properly the first time.

>
>reboot
>
>
>---
>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
>Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
>http://www.avast.com
>
>

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

From what I've seen, those are pretty standard prices for a competent
independent shop, would me higher at the dealer. I tend to use these
folks as a last resort when I can't diagnose things myself.

reboot wrote:
> bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
> other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
> repairs.
>
> daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
> trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
> not well at part throttle.
>
> so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
> the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
> out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
> put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
> carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
> jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
> full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
> phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
> so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
> three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
> up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
> prices, no upselling etc.
>
> today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
> Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
> was on the trip.
>
> oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
> belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
> anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
> fixes.
>
> so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
> $108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
> ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
> MAP Sensor $110
> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
> so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
> out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
> particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
> business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
> daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
> i don't think he gets it.
>
> thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
> got home.
>
> reboot
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
> Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

From what I've seen, those are pretty standard prices for a competent
independent shop, would me higher at the dealer. I tend to use these
folks as a last resort when I can't diagnose things myself.

reboot wrote:
> bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
> other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
> repairs.
>
> daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
> trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
> not well at part throttle.
>
> so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
> the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
> out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
> put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
> carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
> jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
> full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
> phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
> so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
> three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
> up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
> prices, no upselling etc.
>
> today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
> Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
> was on the trip.
>
> oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
> belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
> anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
> fixes.
>
> so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
> $108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
> ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
> MAP Sensor $110
> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
> so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
> out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
> particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
> business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
> daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
> i don't think he gets it.
>
> thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
> got home.
>
> reboot
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
> Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

From what I've seen, those are pretty standard prices for a competent
independent shop, would me higher at the dealer. I tend to use these
folks as a last resort when I can't diagnose things myself.

reboot wrote:
> bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
> other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
> repairs.
>
> daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
> trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
> not well at part throttle.
>
> so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
> the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
> out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
> put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
> carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
> jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
> full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
> phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
> so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
> three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
> up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
> prices, no upselling etc.
>
> today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
> Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
> was on the trip.
>
> oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
> belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
> anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
> fixes.
>
> so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
> $108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
> ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
> MAP Sensor $110
> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
> so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
> out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
> particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
> business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
> daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
> i don't think he gets it.
>
> thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
> got home.
>
> reboot
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
> Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

From what I've seen, those are pretty standard prices for a competent
independent shop, would me higher at the dealer. I tend to use these
folks as a last resort when I can't diagnose things myself.

reboot wrote:
> bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles
>
> other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on
> repairs.
>
> daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business
> trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but
> not well at part throttle.
>
> so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on
> the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray
> out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and
> put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some
> carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the
> jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or
> full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town.
>
> phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening.
>
> so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past
> three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off.
>
> up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable
> prices, no upselling etc.
>
> today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the
> Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i
> was on the trip.
>
> oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp
> belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look
> anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these
> fixes.
>
> so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about
> $108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and
> ask him how he gets from $110 to $270
>
> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
> MAP Sensor $110
> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>
> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>
> so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is
> out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this
> particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my
> business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or
> daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again.
>
> i don't think he gets it.
>
> thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i
> got home.
>
> reboot
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007
> Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

>> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
>> MAP Sensor $110
>> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
>> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>>
>> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>>
>> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>

Dont forget that not only does he have to have a high-quality scanner that
handles nearly all new cars,
http://buy1.snapon.com/products/diag...&group_ID=3098
has to update the scanner twice a year for about $995
And he also has to verify that the old part was indeed faulty (and that the
replacement is not defective) with another tool,
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog
and updates for it cost another $400.

I'd say you got a square deal. You don't like it, buy the tools.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

>> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
>> MAP Sensor $110
>> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
>> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>>
>> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>>
>> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>

Dont forget that not only does he have to have a high-quality scanner that
handles nearly all new cars,
http://buy1.snapon.com/products/diag...&group_ID=3098
has to update the scanner twice a year for about $995
And he also has to verify that the old part was indeed faulty (and that the
replacement is not defective) with another tool,
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog
and updates for it cost another $400.

I'd say you got a square deal. You don't like it, buy the tools.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

>> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
>> MAP Sensor $110
>> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
>> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>>
>> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>>
>> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>

Dont forget that not only does he have to have a high-quality scanner that
handles nearly all new cars,
http://buy1.snapon.com/products/diag...&group_ID=3098
has to update the scanner twice a year for about $995
And he also has to verify that the old part was indeed faulty (and that the
replacement is not defective) with another tool,
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog
and updates for it cost another $400.

I'd say you got a square deal. You don't like it, buy the tools.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

>> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
>> MAP Sensor $110
>> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
>> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>>
>> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?
>>
>> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes
>

Dont forget that not only does he have to have a high-quality scanner that
handles nearly all new cars,
http://buy1.snapon.com/products/diag...&group_ID=3098
has to update the scanner twice a year for about $995
And he also has to verify that the old part was indeed faulty (and that the
replacement is not defective) with another tool,
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog
and updates for it cost another $400.

I'd say you got a square deal. You don't like it, buy the tools.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Re: Independent Mechanics
 

reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:

> 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00
> MAP Sensor $110
> Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57
> Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21
>
> hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes?

The $82 is on the low side for this area (Phoenix, AZ.)

> replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes

The labor charge is as per the flat rate manual and any labor charge
includes a LOT more that replacing the sensor. It's the time from
start of a job to finish of a job.

Check around, you were not overcharged.


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html