Re: Independent Mechanics
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:28:06 -0400, reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote:
>bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles > >other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on >repairs. > >daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business >trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but >not well at part throttle. > >so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on >the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray >out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and >put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some >carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the >jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or >full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town. > >phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening. > >so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past >three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off. > >up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable >prices, no upselling etc. > >today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the >Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i >was on the trip. > >oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp >belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look >anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these >fixes. > >so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about >$108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and >ask him how he gets from $110 to $270 > >1 hr. diagnostics $82.00 >MAP Sensor $110 >Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57 >Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21 > >hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes? > >replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes > >so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is >out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this >particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my >business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or >daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again. > >i don't think he gets it. > >thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i >got home. > >reboot > > >--- >avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. >Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007 >Tested on: 9/14/2007 11:28:08 PM >avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. >http://www.avast.com > > the shop is AE Autocare in Livonia and until now I have been very happy with them. my first job was a kid-car, a '95 escort with front brakes acting up. took it in and they called me and said that the calipers were hanging up on corroded pins. that for about $250 they could replace them or for $100 they would take them apart and put the pins on a wire wheel and put it back together with some good lube. i was delighted because the car was only worth about $500 !! i know the serp belt needs replacing, i'll do it when i replace the cracked exhaust manifold. but i'll do that on my own time, not when i'm leaving on a business trip and have about 20 minutes to give it a quick once over and a lick and a promise. in this case there wasn't a check engine light flashing and if i had more time i would have gone to autozone and scanned it in the parking lot. he didn't offer (at least yet, I'm going to pick it up in a few minutes) to drop the diagnostics. the bone i'm picking is 'standard times' that don't vary by vehicle. on this tj it's really only a 5 minute job to repace the MAP sensor. with some time available, i'm my own shade tree mechanic, i've got the FSM (props to the alt.binaries.e-books.technical newsgroup) and basic tools. just didn't have the chance this time with going out of town. gripe done ... peace reboot --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 000774-6, 09/14/2007 Tested on: 9/15/2007 12:42:03 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Re: Independent Mechanics
A dealer mechanic is usually factory trained where as most independent shop
mechanics aren't, ergo, they usually charge less per hour for labor "XS11E" <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in message news:Xns99AC612CB4CC6xs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184... > "Big Tex" <big_tex_1@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> But this guy looks like he charges the same as a dealer would! > > Why not? I'll bet his mechanics shop at the same stores and pay the > same prices as the dealers mechanics do, why should they earn less? > > > > > > -- > XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups > The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html |
Re: Independent Mechanics
A dealer mechanic is usually factory trained where as most independent shop
mechanics aren't, ergo, they usually charge less per hour for labor "XS11E" <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in message news:Xns99AC612CB4CC6xs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184... > "Big Tex" <big_tex_1@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> But this guy looks like he charges the same as a dealer would! > > Why not? I'll bet his mechanics shop at the same stores and pay the > same prices as the dealers mechanics do, why should they earn less? > > > > > > -- > XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups > The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html |
Re: Independent Mechanics
A dealer mechanic is usually factory trained where as most independent shop
mechanics aren't, ergo, they usually charge less per hour for labor "XS11E" <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in message news:Xns99AC612CB4CC6xs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184... > "Big Tex" <big_tex_1@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> But this guy looks like he charges the same as a dealer would! > > Why not? I'll bet his mechanics shop at the same stores and pay the > same prices as the dealers mechanics do, why should they earn less? > > > > > > -- > XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups > The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html |
Re: Independent Mechanics
A dealer mechanic is usually factory trained where as most independent shop
mechanics aren't, ergo, they usually charge less per hour for labor "XS11E" <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in message news:Xns99AC612CB4CC6xs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184... > "Big Tex" <big_tex_1@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> But this guy looks like he charges the same as a dealer would! > > Why not? I'll bet his mechanics shop at the same stores and pay the > same prices as the dealers mechanics do, why should they earn less? > > > > > > -- > XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups > The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html |
Re: Independent Mechanics
In article <msime3dt173icbmb0b5keim00ruoj2gd07@4ax.com>,
reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote: > bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles > > other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on > repairs. > > daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business > trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but > not well at part throttle. > > so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on > the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray > out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and > put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some > carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the > jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or > full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town. > > phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening. > > so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past > three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off. > > up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable > prices, no upselling etc. > > today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the > Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i > was on the trip. > > oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp > belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look > anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these > fixes. > > so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about > $108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and > ask him how he gets from $110 to $270 > > 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00 > MAP Sensor $110 > Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57 > Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21 > > hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes? Mitchell time is 1.4 hours for system diagnosis You do the math on how many jobs it takes to break even on a 6-8 thousand dollar scanner. > replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes Mitchell time for MAP sensor replacement is .5 hours > so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is > out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this > particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my > business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or > daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again. > > i don't think he gets it. I don't think you get it. > thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i > got home. Sucks having to pay for professional services, eh? |
Re: Independent Mechanics
In article <msime3dt173icbmb0b5keim00ruoj2gd07@4ax.com>,
reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote: > bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles > > other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on > repairs. > > daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business > trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but > not well at part throttle. > > so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on > the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray > out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and > put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some > carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the > jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or > full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town. > > phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening. > > so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past > three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off. > > up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable > prices, no upselling etc. > > today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the > Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i > was on the trip. > > oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp > belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look > anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these > fixes. > > so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about > $108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and > ask him how he gets from $110 to $270 > > 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00 > MAP Sensor $110 > Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57 > Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21 > > hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes? Mitchell time is 1.4 hours for system diagnosis You do the math on how many jobs it takes to break even on a 6-8 thousand dollar scanner. > replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes Mitchell time for MAP sensor replacement is .5 hours > so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is > out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this > particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my > business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or > daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again. > > i don't think he gets it. I don't think you get it. > thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i > got home. Sucks having to pay for professional services, eh? |
Re: Independent Mechanics
In article <msime3dt173icbmb0b5keim00ruoj2gd07@4ax.com>,
reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote: > bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles > > other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on > repairs. > > daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business > trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but > not well at part throttle. > > so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on > the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray > out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and > put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some > carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the > jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or > full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town. > > phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening. > > so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past > three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off. > > up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable > prices, no upselling etc. > > today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the > Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i > was on the trip. > > oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp > belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look > anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these > fixes. > > so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about > $108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and > ask him how he gets from $110 to $270 > > 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00 > MAP Sensor $110 > Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57 > Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21 > > hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes? Mitchell time is 1.4 hours for system diagnosis You do the math on how many jobs it takes to break even on a 6-8 thousand dollar scanner. > replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes Mitchell time for MAP sensor replacement is .5 hours > so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is > out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this > particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my > business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or > daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again. > > i don't think he gets it. I don't think you get it. > thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i > got home. Sucks having to pay for professional services, eh? |
Re: Independent Mechanics
In article <msime3dt173icbmb0b5keim00ruoj2gd07@4ax.com>,
reboot <reboot@nothere.com> wrote: > bought a '99 TJ 4.0 last spring, have a daughter driving it, 67k miles > > other than maintenance and a radio, i haven't had to spend much on > repairs. > > daughter comes home tuesday night just before i leave on a business > trip, says the car is running rough, idles rough. runs under WOT but > not well at part throttle. > > so being a student of this group i'm thinking electrical connectors on > the CPS or TPS or MAP sensor ... easy to get to. open each up, spray > out w/ electronics cleaner, put a dab of dielectric grease on it and > put them back together. pull the TB, looks clean, shoot it w/ some > carb cleaner and blow it out. check the IAC and clean it out. the > jeep now starts fine, idles smooth, drive it and runs part throttle or > full throttle fine. tell daughter it should be OK, leave town. > > phone call next day while i'm out of town, sam ting happening. > > so i call up an independent mechanic shop i've used over the past > three years and arrange for daughter to drop it off. > > up until now this shop has been excellent, good work, reasonable > prices, no upselling etc. > > today the service writer tells me that the MAP senson was bad, the > Throttle Body needed cleaning. my wife authorized the repair whild i > was on the trip. > > oh ... btw - the shocks and steering damper are shot and the serp > belt needs replaceing. sheesh, glad i didn't tell him to look > anywhere else. and that my wife had sense not to authorize these > fixes. > > so i check out the price for the MAP sensor. Mopar retail is about > $108 and I can get it for about $90. call the service writer back and > ask him how he gets from $110 to $270 > > 1 hr. diagnostics $82.00 > MAP Sensor $110 > Labor for MAP Sensor 0.7 hr $57 > Labor for TB cleaning 0.25 hr $21 > > hooking up a scanner ... about what - 5 minutes? Mitchell time is 1.4 hours for system diagnosis You do the math on how many jobs it takes to break even on a 6-8 thousand dollar scanner. > replacing a MAP sensor on a 4.0 about what - another 5 minutes Mitchell time for MAP sensor replacement is .5 hours > so i called the shop owner and told him that his diagnostic charge is > out of line on a car like this, that his labor is out of line for this > particular repair and that if i ever get upsold again i'd be taking my > business elsewhere and that i absolutely won't let my wife or > daughters drop a car off and authorize a repair ever again. > > i don't think he gets it. I don't think you get it. > thanks for letting me vent, should have told the kid to wait until i > got home. Sucks having to pay for professional services, eh? |
Re: Independent Mechanics
In article <P7XGi.2933$ZA5.999@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"Big Tex" <big_tex_1@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > A dealer mechanic is usually factory trained where as most independent shop > mechanics aren't, A ridiculous statement with no basis in fact. Nowdays, this factory training amounts to nothing more than the mechanic sitting at a computer terminal in the dealership playing 'guess the answer.' If real live instructor training, odds are it's a contract teacher from/at a local technical college. <rolls eyes> > ergo, they usually charge less per hour for labor Dealerships charge more per hour because their overhead costs are higher. |
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