RoyJ

Yours is indeed heavily modified, it would have been useful if you had
mentioned that earlier. 3 lashes with the wet noodle to you!

The 36" tires are likely to cause this beast to wander heavily behind
most any tow vehicle less than 8000 pounds. Your Durango is just not in
the right size range. Your Durango comes in at 5100 pounds, good sized,
just not big enough. Another poster mentioned a 75% rule of thumb (towed
is no more than 75% of the base vehicle.) Decent starting point, derate
that to perhaps 50% for flat towing.

A tow dolly would improve things for handling, you still have the
problem of brakes.

lambeth65@earthlink.net wrote:

> I assure you the weight of the CJ is 4400 lbs. I took it to a scale
> and had it weighed. (Actually it was 4650 but I plan on taking off the
> hard doors for towing which should eliminate 250 lbs.) Among other
> things it has 36" boggers, a 360 engine, a full roll cage, Dana 60s
> front and rear, two layers of custom skid plates in addition to the
> stock skid plate, custom bumpers, winch, and a variety of other heavy
> stuff.
>
> The tow vehicle is a 2wd 2002 Dodge Durango. Not sure if this
> qualifies as the "Ford Expedit-ion or GM equivalent" suggested by Dean
> or not.
>
> The jeep rear axle is indeed a full floating with unlockable hubs. If
> I understand what you all are saying, if I unlock all 4 hubs there
> will be no lubrication issues. Do I still need to stop every 200 miles
> and let the engine idle to splash lubrication up on the bearings? I'm
> a bit confused, because in one instance Jeff said I would need to
> leave the front hubs locked in to lubricate... but once it was clearly
> understood that I have full floating in the rear, the advice changed
> to leave all 4 hubs unlocked. I don't understand why the rear
> configuration would change the requirement to lock in the front hubs or
> not? (Please bear with me if I sound ignorant... I have had some
> lesser/stock jeeps and been offroad before but this is my first heavily
> modified rig. I bought it as is built by someone else and am still
> learning all the ins and outs... I only know enough to be dangerous
> but am trying to learn)
>
> A thought: Would a potential good solution be a tow dolly? This could
> get the CJ's front wheels up off the road and eliminate the steering
> problem, yet would only add a couple hundred pounds of weight instead
> of a thousand or more.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
>>YOU TOLD US IN ANOTHER POST THAT YOUR CJ HAS FULL FLOATING REAR HUBS.
>
> This
>
>>is a critical bit of information AND IT CHANGES THE ENTIRE
>
> DISCUSSION.
>
>>Full Floaters allow flat towing, indeed they are a primary reason
>
> people
>
>>even install them. Well, maybe not primary reason, but CERTAINLY this
>
> is an
>
>>added benefit.
>>
>>All you need do is unlock all four hubs, and you are ready to go. The
>
> tires
>
>>will be disconnected at the hub from the entire rest of the drive
>
> train,
>
>>COMPLETELY REMOVING the requirement to set the levers on the
>
> transmission
>
>>and transfer case to any specific position. With the hubs unlocked on
>
> the
>
>>rear axle, the drivetrain will remain at rest while you are towing
>
> your CJ.
>
>>Not only do Full Floaters let you flat tow, but if you manage to
>
> break an
>
>>axle shaft, you can disconnect the affected tire and still drive your
>
> Jeep.
>
>>This is the primary reason why people install them.
>>
>>You bought a Bonus, you can flat tow without any worries.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>><lambeth65@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:1106887805.009841.175620@z14g2000cwz.google groups.com...
>>
>>>I just got a tow vehicle which is only rated to tow 4800 lbs.... so
>
> it
>
>>>can tow my CJ, but not the CJ + trailer.
>>>
>>>Is there anything special I need to know before flat towing? I'm
>>>guessing I should put the transfer case and transmission in
>
> neutral,
>
>>>and lock in the hubs. Anything else I should do?
>>>
>
>

RoyJ

Yours is indeed heavily modified, it would have been useful if you had
mentioned that earlier. 3 lashes with the wet noodle to you!

The 36" tires are likely to cause this beast to wander heavily behind
most any tow vehicle less than 8000 pounds. Your Durango is just not in
the right size range. Your Durango comes in at 5100 pounds, good sized,
just not big enough. Another poster mentioned a 75% rule of thumb (towed
is no more than 75% of the base vehicle.) Decent starting point, derate
that to perhaps 50% for flat towing.

A tow dolly would improve things for handling, you still have the
problem of brakes.

lambeth65@earthlink.net wrote:

> I assure you the weight of the CJ is 4400 lbs. I took it to a scale
> and had it weighed. (Actually it was 4650 but I plan on taking off the
> hard doors for towing which should eliminate 250 lbs.) Among other
> things it has 36" boggers, a 360 engine, a full roll cage, Dana 60s
> front and rear, two layers of custom skid plates in addition to the
> stock skid plate, custom bumpers, winch, and a variety of other heavy
> stuff.
>
> The tow vehicle is a 2wd 2002 Dodge Durango. Not sure if this
> qualifies as the "Ford Expedit-ion or GM equivalent" suggested by Dean
> or not.
>
> The jeep rear axle is indeed a full floating with unlockable hubs. If
> I understand what you all are saying, if I unlock all 4 hubs there
> will be no lubrication issues. Do I still need to stop every 200 miles
> and let the engine idle to splash lubrication up on the bearings? I'm
> a bit confused, because in one instance Jeff said I would need to
> leave the front hubs locked in to lubricate... but once it was clearly
> understood that I have full floating in the rear, the advice changed
> to leave all 4 hubs unlocked. I don't understand why the rear
> configuration would change the requirement to lock in the front hubs or
> not? (Please bear with me if I sound ignorant... I have had some
> lesser/stock jeeps and been offroad before but this is my first heavily
> modified rig. I bought it as is built by someone else and am still
> learning all the ins and outs... I only know enough to be dangerous
> but am trying to learn)
>
> A thought: Would a potential good solution be a tow dolly? This could
> get the CJ's front wheels up off the road and eliminate the steering
> problem, yet would only add a couple hundred pounds of weight instead
> of a thousand or more.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
>>YOU TOLD US IN ANOTHER POST THAT YOUR CJ HAS FULL FLOATING REAR HUBS.
>
> This
>
>>is a critical bit of information AND IT CHANGES THE ENTIRE
>
> DISCUSSION.
>
>>Full Floaters allow flat towing, indeed they are a primary reason
>
> people
>
>>even install them. Well, maybe not primary reason, but CERTAINLY this
>
> is an
>
>>added benefit.
>>
>>All you need do is unlock all four hubs, and you are ready to go. The
>
> tires
>
>>will be disconnected at the hub from the entire rest of the drive
>
> train,
>
>>COMPLETELY REMOVING the requirement to set the levers on the
>
> transmission
>
>>and transfer case to any specific position. With the hubs unlocked on
>
> the
>
>>rear axle, the drivetrain will remain at rest while you are towing
>
> your CJ.
>
>>Not only do Full Floaters let you flat tow, but if you manage to
>
> break an
>
>>axle shaft, you can disconnect the affected tire and still drive your
>
> Jeep.
>
>>This is the primary reason why people install them.
>>
>>You bought a Bonus, you can flat tow without any worries.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>><lambeth65@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:1106887805.009841.175620@z14g2000cwz.google groups.com...
>>
>>>I just got a tow vehicle which is only rated to tow 4800 lbs.... so
>
> it
>
>>>can tow my CJ, but not the CJ + trailer.
>>>
>>>Is there anything special I need to know before flat towing? I'm
>>>guessing I should put the transfer case and transmission in
>
> neutral,
>
>>>and lock in the hubs. Anything else I should do?
>>>
>
>

RoyJ

Yours is indeed heavily modified, it would have been useful if you had
mentioned that earlier. 3 lashes with the wet noodle to you!

The 36" tires are likely to cause this beast to wander heavily behind
most any tow vehicle less than 8000 pounds. Your Durango is just not in
the right size range. Your Durango comes in at 5100 pounds, good sized,
just not big enough. Another poster mentioned a 75% rule of thumb (towed
is no more than 75% of the base vehicle.) Decent starting point, derate
that to perhaps 50% for flat towing.

A tow dolly would improve things for handling, you still have the
problem of brakes.

lambeth65@earthlink.net wrote:

> I assure you the weight of the CJ is 4400 lbs. I took it to a scale
> and had it weighed. (Actually it was 4650 but I plan on taking off the
> hard doors for towing which should eliminate 250 lbs.) Among other
> things it has 36" boggers, a 360 engine, a full roll cage, Dana 60s
> front and rear, two layers of custom skid plates in addition to the
> stock skid plate, custom bumpers, winch, and a variety of other heavy
> stuff.
>
> The tow vehicle is a 2wd 2002 Dodge Durango. Not sure if this
> qualifies as the "Ford Expedit-ion or GM equivalent" suggested by Dean
> or not.
>
> The jeep rear axle is indeed a full floating with unlockable hubs. If
> I understand what you all are saying, if I unlock all 4 hubs there
> will be no lubrication issues. Do I still need to stop every 200 miles
> and let the engine idle to splash lubrication up on the bearings? I'm
> a bit confused, because in one instance Jeff said I would need to
> leave the front hubs locked in to lubricate... but once it was clearly
> understood that I have full floating in the rear, the advice changed
> to leave all 4 hubs unlocked. I don't understand why the rear
> configuration would change the requirement to lock in the front hubs or
> not? (Please bear with me if I sound ignorant... I have had some
> lesser/stock jeeps and been offroad before but this is my first heavily
> modified rig. I bought it as is built by someone else and am still
> learning all the ins and outs... I only know enough to be dangerous
> but am trying to learn)
>
> A thought: Would a potential good solution be a tow dolly? This could
> get the CJ's front wheels up off the road and eliminate the steering
> problem, yet would only add a couple hundred pounds of weight instead
> of a thousand or more.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
>>YOU TOLD US IN ANOTHER POST THAT YOUR CJ HAS FULL FLOATING REAR HUBS.
>
> This
>
>>is a critical bit of information AND IT CHANGES THE ENTIRE
>
> DISCUSSION.
>
>>Full Floaters allow flat towing, indeed they are a primary reason
>
> people
>
>>even install them. Well, maybe not primary reason, but CERTAINLY this
>
> is an
>
>>added benefit.
>>
>>All you need do is unlock all four hubs, and you are ready to go. The
>
> tires
>
>>will be disconnected at the hub from the entire rest of the drive
>
> train,
>
>>COMPLETELY REMOVING the requirement to set the levers on the
>
> transmission
>
>>and transfer case to any specific position. With the hubs unlocked on
>
> the
>
>>rear axle, the drivetrain will remain at rest while you are towing
>
> your CJ.
>
>>Not only do Full Floaters let you flat tow, but if you manage to
>
> break an
>
>>axle shaft, you can disconnect the affected tire and still drive your
>
> Jeep.
>
>>This is the primary reason why people install them.
>>
>>You bought a Bonus, you can flat tow without any worries.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>><lambeth65@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:1106887805.009841.175620@z14g2000cwz.google groups.com...
>>
>>>I just got a tow vehicle which is only rated to tow 4800 lbs.... so
>
> it
>
>>>can tow my CJ, but not the CJ + trailer.
>>>
>>>Is there anything special I need to know before flat towing? I'm
>>>guessing I should put the transfer case and transmission in
>
> neutral,
>
>>>and lock in the hubs. Anything else I should do?
>>>
>
>

Dean

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:31:34 GMT, RoyJ <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote:

>How cute, they're both red!!! :)

Funny how that happens. Every time I go to the stealership I plan to buy
another color, but the red ones start chanting buy me, buy ME, BUY ME! It downs
out the other voices in my head and I have to buy a red one to make it stop.
<lol>

Dean
Mr. Wallet is one notiable voice that gets shouted down. He'w always saying "you
want to spend how much money on the red one?!"

Dean

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:31:34 GMT, RoyJ <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote:

>How cute, they're both red!!! :)

Funny how that happens. Every time I go to the stealership I plan to buy
another color, but the red ones start chanting buy me, buy ME, BUY ME! It downs
out the other voices in my head and I have to buy a red one to make it stop.
<lol>

Dean
Mr. Wallet is one notiable voice that gets shouted down. He'w always saying "you
want to spend how much money on the red one?!"

Dean

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:31:34 GMT, RoyJ <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote:

>How cute, they're both red!!! :)

Funny how that happens. Every time I go to the stealership I plan to buy
another color, but the red ones start chanting buy me, buy ME, BUY ME! It downs
out the other voices in my head and I have to buy a red one to make it stop.
<lol>

Dean
Mr. Wallet is one notiable voice that gets shouted down. He'w always saying "you
want to spend how much money on the red one?!"

Matt Macchiarolo

<lambeth65@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1107101940.256695.200350@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
I assure you the weight of the CJ is 4400 lbs. I took it to a scale
and had it weighed. (Actually it was 4650 but I plan on taking off the
hard doors for towing which should eliminate 250 lbs.) Among other
things it has 36" boggers, a 360 engine, a full roll cage, Dana 60s
front and rear, two layers of custom skid plates in addition to the
stock skid plate, custom bumpers, winch, and a variety of other heavy
stuff.>>

Your hard doors are 125 lbs each? Where do you plan to store them while
towing, in the back of the Durango? If so, you might as well leave them on
the Jeep, since the Durango is carrying them either way. Those Boggers are
going to get VERY squirrley as well.

<<The tow vehicle is a 2wd 2002 Dodge Durango. Not sure if this
qualifies as the "Ford Expedit-ion or GM equivalent" suggested by Dean
or not.>>

No, a Durango IIRC is an SUV equivalent of a Dakota pickup. The Expedition
is based on a full-size Ford F150 pickup. You are going to attempt to tow a
4400 pound trailer witn no brakes and a tendency to steer itself with a
mid-sized SUV. IMHO this is going to be dangerous, and you won't realize how
dangerous until you have to make your first panic stop and you end up
jackknifing into oncoming traffic.

<<in the rear, the advice changed
to leave all 4 hubs unlocked. I don't understand why the rear
configuration would change the requirement to lock in the front hubs or
not? (Please bear with me if I sound ignorant... I have had some
lesser/stock jeeps and been offroad before but this is my first heavily
modified rig. I bought it as is built by someone else and am still
learning all the ins and outs... I only know enough to be dangerous
but am trying to learn)>>

I believe on your T case, the input shaft drives the oil pump...when
flat-towing, the input shaft would not be spinning, so no oil would be
getting to the rear output shaft bearing when the rear axle/driveshaft
spins. If you can unlock the rear hubs, that eliminates the rear driveshaft
spinning, so you won't need to stop. That said, you may not be able to stop,
given that you really are overextending your tow vehicle's capabilities,
especially in the braking department.

<<A thought: Would a potential good solution be a tow dolly? This could
get the CJ's front wheels up off the road and eliminate the steering
problem, yet would only add a couple hundred pounds of weight instead
of a thousand or more.>>

The best solution, and you're not gonna like it, is to sell the Durango and
go with a 3/4 ton truck and trailer with electric brakes.

Matt Macchiarolo

<lambeth65@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1107101940.256695.200350@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
I assure you the weight of the CJ is 4400 lbs. I took it to a scale
and had it weighed. (Actually it was 4650 but I plan on taking off the
hard doors for towing which should eliminate 250 lbs.) Among other
things it has 36" boggers, a 360 engine, a full roll cage, Dana 60s
front and rear, two layers of custom skid plates in addition to the
stock skid plate, custom bumpers, winch, and a variety of other heavy
stuff.>>

Your hard doors are 125 lbs each? Where do you plan to store them while
towing, in the back of the Durango? If so, you might as well leave them on
the Jeep, since the Durango is carrying them either way. Those Boggers are
going to get VERY squirrley as well.

<<The tow vehicle is a 2wd 2002 Dodge Durango. Not sure if this
qualifies as the "Ford Expedit-ion or GM equivalent" suggested by Dean
or not.>>

No, a Durango IIRC is an SUV equivalent of a Dakota pickup. The Expedition
is based on a full-size Ford F150 pickup. You are going to attempt to tow a
4400 pound trailer witn no brakes and a tendency to steer itself with a
mid-sized SUV. IMHO this is going to be dangerous, and you won't realize how
dangerous until you have to make your first panic stop and you end up
jackknifing into oncoming traffic.

<<in the rear, the advice changed
to leave all 4 hubs unlocked. I don't understand why the rear
configuration would change the requirement to lock in the front hubs or
not? (Please bear with me if I sound ignorant... I have had some
lesser/stock jeeps and been offroad before but this is my first heavily
modified rig. I bought it as is built by someone else and am still
learning all the ins and outs... I only know enough to be dangerous
but am trying to learn)>>

I believe on your T case, the input shaft drives the oil pump...when
flat-towing, the input shaft would not be spinning, so no oil would be
getting to the rear output shaft bearing when the rear axle/driveshaft
spins. If you can unlock the rear hubs, that eliminates the rear driveshaft
spinning, so you won't need to stop. That said, you may not be able to stop,
given that you really are overextending your tow vehicle's capabilities,
especially in the braking department.

<<A thought: Would a potential good solution be a tow dolly? This could
get the CJ's front wheels up off the road and eliminate the steering
problem, yet would only add a couple hundred pounds of weight instead
of a thousand or more.>>

The best solution, and you're not gonna like it, is to sell the Durango and
go with a 3/4 ton truck and trailer with electric brakes.

Matt Macchiarolo

<lambeth65@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1107101940.256695.200350@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
I assure you the weight of the CJ is 4400 lbs. I took it to a scale
and had it weighed. (Actually it was 4650 but I plan on taking off the
hard doors for towing which should eliminate 250 lbs.) Among other
things it has 36" boggers, a 360 engine, a full roll cage, Dana 60s
front and rear, two layers of custom skid plates in addition to the
stock skid plate, custom bumpers, winch, and a variety of other heavy
stuff.>>

Your hard doors are 125 lbs each? Where do you plan to store them while
towing, in the back of the Durango? If so, you might as well leave them on
the Jeep, since the Durango is carrying them either way. Those Boggers are
going to get VERY squirrley as well.

<<The tow vehicle is a 2wd 2002 Dodge Durango. Not sure if this
qualifies as the "Ford Expedit-ion or GM equivalent" suggested by Dean
or not.>>

No, a Durango IIRC is an SUV equivalent of a Dakota pickup. The Expedition
is based on a full-size Ford F150 pickup. You are going to attempt to tow a
4400 pound trailer witn no brakes and a tendency to steer itself with a
mid-sized SUV. IMHO this is going to be dangerous, and you won't realize how
dangerous until you have to make your first panic stop and you end up
jackknifing into oncoming traffic.

<<in the rear, the advice changed
to leave all 4 hubs unlocked. I don't understand why the rear
configuration would change the requirement to lock in the front hubs or
not? (Please bear with me if I sound ignorant... I have had some
lesser/stock jeeps and been offroad before but this is my first heavily
modified rig. I bought it as is built by someone else and am still
learning all the ins and outs... I only know enough to be dangerous
but am trying to learn)>>

I believe on your T case, the input shaft drives the oil pump...when
flat-towing, the input shaft would not be spinning, so no oil would be
getting to the rear output shaft bearing when the rear axle/driveshaft
spins. If you can unlock the rear hubs, that eliminates the rear driveshaft
spinning, so you won't need to stop. That said, you may not be able to stop,
given that you really are overextending your tow vehicle's capabilities,
especially in the braking department.

<<A thought: Would a potential good solution be a tow dolly? This could
get the CJ's front wheels up off the road and eliminate the steering
problem, yet would only add a couple hundred pounds of weight instead
of a thousand or more.>>

The best solution, and you're not gonna like it, is to sell the Durango and
go with a 3/4 ton truck and trailer with electric brakes.

Dean

>The tow vehicle is a 2wd 2002 Dodge Durango. Not sure if this
>qualifies as the "Ford Expedit-ion or GM equivalent" suggested by Dean
>or not.

That is more in the Jeep Grand Cherokee, Ford Explorer range. When I bought
the Expedition one of the tasks it was to perform was as a tow vehicle for the
TJ. I REALLY wanted a Grand Cherokee, but the 5,000 lbs tow limit was just too
closed to the weight of my TJ for my personal comfort.

You're doing the right thing by asking questions. The problem is that you're
going to get all kinds of opinions. Over in the RV group there is a school of
thought that says for safety you shouldn't tow anything bigger than a utility
trailer with anything smaller than a semi truck. I don't subscribe to that
school, but I do think that the car builders are pushed to give their vehicles
the highest tow rating possible. And just cause they say it can tow X number of
pounds doesn't mean its a good idea. And that is where the 75% rule of thumb
comes in.

>A thought: Would a potential good solution be a tow dolly? This could
>get the CJ's front wheels up off the road and eliminate the steering
>problem, yet would only add a couple hundred pounds of weight instead
>of a thousand or more.

Tow dollies are good for FWD cars that can't be towed 4 down for some reason,
usually transmission issues. Getting a tow dolly designed for fwd cars to work
with a CJ with 36" tires isn't going to be easy, if it is possible at all.
You'll have issues with getting straps big enough to go over the tires and
potentially issues with the width of the front axle being able to even fit on
the dolly. And in the end you'll still be at the hairy edge of your tow rigs
capacity.

I think the best thing to do is look at how others with similar Jeeps get their
rigs to the trail. And frankly, the majority I see with 35"+ tires either drive
them or use trailers.

Dean
Hey, nobody said this was going to be cheap. Remember Jeep stands for
Just Empty Every Pocket!