Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
02-08-2004, 01:58 PM
#41
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Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
We got two threads going here....
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
past the rings.
How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
>
> However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from
> one cylinder?
>
> I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting
> more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around,
> wouldn't it show up just at idle?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
> > following you....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> still
> > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> > > after I drive it.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark
> is
> > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if'
> the
> > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > >
> > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie
> the
> > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > >
> > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same
> put
> > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and
> test
> > > > > the compression again.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the
> piston
> > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then
> you
> > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > >
> > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression
> of
> > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > > > cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> suspect
> > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and
> then.
> > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy.
> If I
> > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> thousand
> > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> like
> > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available
> (GM
> > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand
> rpm I
> > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and
> I
> > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> situation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> However,
> > > in
> > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> > > requred
> > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take
> out
> > > the
> > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> didn't
> > > return
> > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> > > didn't
> > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> > > places and
> > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> because
> > > I took
> > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said
> the
> > > noise
> > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> chasing
> > > a
> > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> > > wasn't this
> > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and
> this
> > > was a
> > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve
> seal
> > > from
> > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the
> all
> > > went
> > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > compression
> > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> guage).
> > > This
> > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which
> was
> > > 110.
> > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> > > mechanic
> > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll
> go
> > > and get
> > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> doing
> > > the
> > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be
> sure
> > > it's
> > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> tester
> > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a
> leak.
> > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> around
> > > right?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> > > valve
> > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push
> rod
> > > and
> > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> > > valve
> > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> condition.
> > > When I
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> > > while I
> > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each
> valve
> > > I
> > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > attached a
> > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the
> air
> > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then
> move
> > > the
> > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> > > which is
> > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had
> play.
> > > The
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the
> work
> > > I had
> > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the
> leak
> > > down
> > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I
> heard
> > > only
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> been
> > > released
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the
> leak
> > > down
> > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> situation if
> > > #2
> > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders
> are
> > > good,
> > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it.
> A
> > > lot of
> > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> wall on
> > > time.
> > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and
> find
> > > some
> > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment
> or
> > > might
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and
> go
> > > to
> > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine,
> clean
> > > it,
> > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> > > Turn
> > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put
> it
> > > in.
> > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7
> year
> > > 70,000
> > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000
> mile
> > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> > > scope of
> > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever
> dealt
> > > with
> > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above
> are
> > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
past the rings.
How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
>
> However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from
> one cylinder?
>
> I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting
> more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around,
> wouldn't it show up just at idle?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
> > following you....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> still
> > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> > > after I drive it.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark
> is
> > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if'
> the
> > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > >
> > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie
> the
> > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > >
> > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same
> put
> > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and
> test
> > > > > the compression again.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the
> piston
> > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then
> you
> > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > >
> > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression
> of
> > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > > > cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> suspect
> > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and
> then.
> > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy.
> If I
> > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> thousand
> > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> like
> > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available
> (GM
> > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand
> rpm I
> > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and
> I
> > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> situation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> However,
> > > in
> > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> > > requred
> > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take
> out
> > > the
> > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> didn't
> > > return
> > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> > > didn't
> > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> > > places and
> > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> because
> > > I took
> > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said
> the
> > > noise
> > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> chasing
> > > a
> > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> > > wasn't this
> > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and
> this
> > > was a
> > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve
> seal
> > > from
> > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the
> all
> > > went
> > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > compression
> > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> guage).
> > > This
> > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which
> was
> > > 110.
> > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> > > mechanic
> > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll
> go
> > > and get
> > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> doing
> > > the
> > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be
> sure
> > > it's
> > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> tester
> > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a
> leak.
> > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> around
> > > right?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> > > valve
> > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push
> rod
> > > and
> > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> > > valve
> > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> condition.
> > > When I
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> > > while I
> > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each
> valve
> > > I
> > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > attached a
> > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the
> air
> > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then
> move
> > > the
> > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> > > which is
> > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had
> play.
> > > The
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the
> work
> > > I had
> > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the
> leak
> > > down
> > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I
> heard
> > > only
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> been
> > > released
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the
> leak
> > > down
> > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> situation if
> > > #2
> > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders
> are
> > > good,
> > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it.
> A
> > > lot of
> > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> wall on
> > > time.
> > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and
> find
> > > some
> > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment
> or
> > > might
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and
> go
> > > to
> > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine,
> clean
> > > it,
> > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> > > Turn
> > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put
> it
> > > in.
> > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7
> year
> > > 70,000
> > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000
> mile
> > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> > > scope of
> > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever
> dealt
> > > with
> > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above
> are
> > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 01:58 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
We got two threads going here....
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
past the rings.
How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
>
> However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from
> one cylinder?
>
> I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting
> more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around,
> wouldn't it show up just at idle?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
> > following you....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> still
> > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> > > after I drive it.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark
> is
> > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if'
> the
> > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > >
> > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie
> the
> > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > >
> > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same
> put
> > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and
> test
> > > > > the compression again.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the
> piston
> > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then
> you
> > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > >
> > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression
> of
> > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > > > cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> suspect
> > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and
> then.
> > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy.
> If I
> > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> thousand
> > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> like
> > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available
> (GM
> > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand
> rpm I
> > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and
> I
> > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> situation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> However,
> > > in
> > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> > > requred
> > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take
> out
> > > the
> > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> didn't
> > > return
> > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> > > didn't
> > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> > > places and
> > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> because
> > > I took
> > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said
> the
> > > noise
> > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> chasing
> > > a
> > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> > > wasn't this
> > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and
> this
> > > was a
> > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve
> seal
> > > from
> > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the
> all
> > > went
> > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > compression
> > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> guage).
> > > This
> > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which
> was
> > > 110.
> > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> > > mechanic
> > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll
> go
> > > and get
> > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> doing
> > > the
> > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be
> sure
> > > it's
> > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> tester
> > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a
> leak.
> > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> around
> > > right?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> > > valve
> > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push
> rod
> > > and
> > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> > > valve
> > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> condition.
> > > When I
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> > > while I
> > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each
> valve
> > > I
> > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > attached a
> > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the
> air
> > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then
> move
> > > the
> > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> > > which is
> > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had
> play.
> > > The
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the
> work
> > > I had
> > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the
> leak
> > > down
> > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I
> heard
> > > only
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> been
> > > released
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the
> leak
> > > down
> > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> situation if
> > > #2
> > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders
> are
> > > good,
> > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it.
> A
> > > lot of
> > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> wall on
> > > time.
> > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and
> find
> > > some
> > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment
> or
> > > might
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and
> go
> > > to
> > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine,
> clean
> > > it,
> > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> > > Turn
> > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put
> it
> > > in.
> > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7
> year
> > > 70,000
> > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000
> mile
> > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> > > scope of
> > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever
> dealt
> > > with
> > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above
> are
> > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
past the rings.
How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
>
> However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from
> one cylinder?
>
> I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting
> more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around,
> wouldn't it show up just at idle?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
> > following you....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> still
> > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> > > after I drive it.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark
> is
> > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if'
> the
> > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > >
> > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie
> the
> > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > >
> > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same
> put
> > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and
> test
> > > > > the compression again.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the
> piston
> > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then
> you
> > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > >
> > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression
> of
> > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > > > cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> suspect
> > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and
> then.
> > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy.
> If I
> > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> thousand
> > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> like
> > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available
> (GM
> > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand
> rpm I
> > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and
> I
> > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> situation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> However,
> > > in
> > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> > > requred
> > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take
> out
> > > the
> > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> didn't
> > > return
> > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> > > didn't
> > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> > > places and
> > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> because
> > > I took
> > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said
> the
> > > noise
> > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> chasing
> > > a
> > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> > > wasn't this
> > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and
> this
> > > was a
> > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve
> seal
> > > from
> > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the
> all
> > > went
> > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > compression
> > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> guage).
> > > This
> > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which
> was
> > > 110.
> > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> > > mechanic
> > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll
> go
> > > and get
> > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> doing
> > > the
> > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be
> sure
> > > it's
> > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> tester
> > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a
> leak.
> > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> around
> > > right?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> > > valve
> > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push
> rod
> > > and
> > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> > > valve
> > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> condition.
> > > When I
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> > > while I
> > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each
> valve
> > > I
> > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > attached a
> > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the
> air
> > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then
> move
> > > the
> > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> > > which is
> > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had
> play.
> > > The
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the
> work
> > > I had
> > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the
> leak
> > > down
> > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I
> heard
> > > only
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> been
> > > released
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the
> leak
> > > down
> > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> situation if
> > > #2
> > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders
> are
> > > good,
> > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it.
> A
> > > lot of
> > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> wall on
> > > time.
> > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and
> find
> > > some
> > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment
> or
> > > might
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and
> go
> > > to
> > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine,
> clean
> > > it,
> > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> > > Turn
> > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put
> it
> > > in.
> > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7
> year
> > > 70,000
> > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000
> mile
> > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> > > scope of
> > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever
> dealt
> > > with
> > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above
> are
> > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 01:58 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
We got two threads going here....
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
past the rings.
How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
>
> However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from
> one cylinder?
>
> I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting
> more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around,
> wouldn't it show up just at idle?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
> > following you....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> still
> > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> > > after I drive it.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark
> is
> > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if'
> the
> > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > >
> > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie
> the
> > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > >
> > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same
> put
> > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and
> test
> > > > > the compression again.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the
> piston
> > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then
> you
> > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > >
> > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression
> of
> > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > > > cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> suspect
> > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and
> then.
> > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy.
> If I
> > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> thousand
> > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> like
> > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available
> (GM
> > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand
> rpm I
> > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and
> I
> > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> situation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> However,
> > > in
> > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> > > requred
> > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take
> out
> > > the
> > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> didn't
> > > return
> > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> > > didn't
> > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> > > places and
> > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> because
> > > I took
> > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said
> the
> > > noise
> > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> chasing
> > > a
> > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> > > wasn't this
> > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and
> this
> > > was a
> > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve
> seal
> > > from
> > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the
> all
> > > went
> > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > compression
> > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> guage).
> > > This
> > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which
> was
> > > 110.
> > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> > > mechanic
> > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll
> go
> > > and get
> > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> doing
> > > the
> > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be
> sure
> > > it's
> > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> tester
> > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a
> leak.
> > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> around
> > > right?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> > > valve
> > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push
> rod
> > > and
> > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> > > valve
> > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> condition.
> > > When I
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> > > while I
> > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each
> valve
> > > I
> > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > attached a
> > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the
> air
> > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then
> move
> > > the
> > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> > > which is
> > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had
> play.
> > > The
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the
> work
> > > I had
> > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the
> leak
> > > down
> > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I
> heard
> > > only
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> been
> > > released
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the
> leak
> > > down
> > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> situation if
> > > #2
> > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders
> are
> > > good,
> > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it.
> A
> > > lot of
> > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> wall on
> > > time.
> > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and
> find
> > > some
> > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment
> or
> > > might
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and
> go
> > > to
> > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine,
> clean
> > > it,
> > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> > > Turn
> > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put
> it
> > > in.
> > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7
> year
> > > 70,000
> > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000
> mile
> > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> > > scope of
> > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever
> dealt
> > > with
> > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above
> are
> > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
past the rings.
How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
>
> However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from
> one cylinder?
>
> I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting
> more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around,
> wouldn't it show up just at idle?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
> > following you....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> still
> > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> > > after I drive it.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark
> is
> > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if'
> the
> > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > >
> > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie
> the
> > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > >
> > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same
> put
> > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and
> test
> > > > > the compression again.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the
> piston
> > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then
> you
> > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > >
> > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression
> of
> > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > > > cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> suspect
> > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > >
> > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and
> then.
> > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy.
> If I
> > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> thousand
> > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> like
> > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available
> (GM
> > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand
> rpm I
> > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and
> I
> > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> situation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> However,
> > > in
> > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> > > requred
> > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take
> out
> > > the
> > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> didn't
> > > return
> > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> > > didn't
> > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> > > places and
> > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> because
> > > I took
> > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said
> the
> > > noise
> > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> chasing
> > > a
> > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> > > wasn't this
> > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and
> this
> > > was a
> > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve
> seal
> > > from
> > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the
> all
> > > went
> > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > compression
> > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> guage).
> > > This
> > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which
> was
> > > 110.
> > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> > > mechanic
> > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll
> go
> > > and get
> > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> doing
> > > the
> > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be
> sure
> > > it's
> > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> tester
> > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a
> leak.
> > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> around
> > > right?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> > > valve
> > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push
> rod
> > > and
> > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> > > valve
> > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> condition.
> > > When I
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> > > while I
> > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each
> valve
> > > I
> > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > attached a
> > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the
> air
> > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then
> move
> > > the
> > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> > > which is
> > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had
> play.
> > > The
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the
> work
> > > I had
> > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the
> leak
> > > down
> > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I
> heard
> > > only
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> been
> > > released
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the
> leak
> > > down
> > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> situation if
> > > #2
> > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders
> are
> > > good,
> > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it.
> A
> > > lot of
> > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> wall on
> > > time.
> > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and
> find
> > > some
> > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment
> or
> > > might
> > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and
> go
> > > to
> > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine,
> clean
> > > it,
> > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> > > Turn
> > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put
> it
> > > in.
> > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7
> year
> > > 70,000
> > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000
> mile
> > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> > > scope of
> > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever
> dealt
> > > with
> > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above
> are
> > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 02:11 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till
tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a
gas smell?
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca...
> We got two threads going here....
>
> I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
> no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
> past the rings.
>
> How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
> >
> > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this
from
> > one cylinder?
> >
> > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep
getting
> > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing
around,
> > wouldn't it show up just at idle?
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue
cloud
> > > following you....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> > still
> > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle,
only
> > > > after I drive it.
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of
spark
> > is
> > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of
the
> > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue
'if'
> > the
> > > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then
hold/tie
> > the
> > > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the
same
> > put
> > > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then
put a
> > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole
and
> > test
> > > > > > the compression again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with
the
> > piston
> > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little,
then
> > you
> > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the
compression
> > of
> > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on
all
> > > > > > cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> > suspect
> > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now
and
> > then.
> > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it
easy.
> > If I
> > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> > thousand
> > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> > like
> > > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or
right
> > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs
available
> > (GM
> > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple
thousand
> > rpm I
> > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm
and
> > I
> > > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> > situation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> > However,
> > > > in
> > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on
it
> > > > requred
> > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't
take
> > out
> > > > the
> > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> > didn't
> > > > return
> > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky.
I
> > > > didn't
> > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the
original
> > > > places and
> > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> > because
> > > > I took
> > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop
said
> > the
> > > > noise
> > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> > chasing
> > > > a
> > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and
it
> > > > wasn't this
> > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this
and
> > this
> > > > was a
> > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the
valve
> > seal
> > > > from
> > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that,
the
> > all
> > > > went
> > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > > compression
> > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> > guage).
> > > > This
> > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2
which
> > was
> > > > 110.
> > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what
the
> > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go?
I'll
> > go
> > > > and get
> > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> > doing
> > > > the
> > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I
be
> > sure
> > > > it's
> > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> > tester
> > > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have
a
> > leak.
> > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> > around
> > > > right?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you
need a
> > > > valve
> > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead
push
> > rod
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in
'00
> > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I
rechecked my
> > > > valve
> > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> > condition.
> > > > When I
> > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve
up
> > > > while I
> > > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For
each
> > valve
> > > > I
> > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > > attached a
> > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released
the
> > air
> > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can
then
> > move
> > > > the
> > > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt
some
> > > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake
and
> > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head
had
> > play.
> > > > The
> > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with
the
> > work
> > > > I had
> > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when
the
> > leak
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2
I
> > heard
> > > > only
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked
#1
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> > been
> > > > released
> > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with
the
> > leak
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> > situation if
> > > > #2
> > > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5
cylinders
> > are
> > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with
it.
> > A
> > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> > wall on
> > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there
and
> > find
> > > > some
> > > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or
equipment
> > or
> > > > might
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed
and
> > go
> > > > to
> > > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the
engine,
> > clean
> > > > it,
> > > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k
installed.
> > > > Turn
> > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to
put
> > it
> > > > in.
> > > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a
7
> > year
> > > > 70,000
> > > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to
JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year
36,000
> > mile
> > > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the
narrower
> > > > scope of
> > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone
ever
> > dealt
> > > > with
> > > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written
above
> > are
> > > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bill
tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a
gas smell?
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca...
> We got two threads going here....
>
> I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
> no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
> past the rings.
>
> How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
> >
> > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this
from
> > one cylinder?
> >
> > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep
getting
> > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing
around,
> > wouldn't it show up just at idle?
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue
cloud
> > > following you....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> > still
> > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle,
only
> > > > after I drive it.
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of
spark
> > is
> > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of
the
> > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue
'if'
> > the
> > > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then
hold/tie
> > the
> > > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the
same
> > put
> > > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then
put a
> > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole
and
> > test
> > > > > > the compression again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with
the
> > piston
> > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little,
then
> > you
> > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the
compression
> > of
> > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on
all
> > > > > > cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> > suspect
> > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now
and
> > then.
> > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it
easy.
> > If I
> > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> > thousand
> > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> > like
> > > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or
right
> > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs
available
> > (GM
> > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple
thousand
> > rpm I
> > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm
and
> > I
> > > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> > situation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> > However,
> > > > in
> > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on
it
> > > > requred
> > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't
take
> > out
> > > > the
> > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> > didn't
> > > > return
> > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky.
I
> > > > didn't
> > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the
original
> > > > places and
> > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> > because
> > > > I took
> > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop
said
> > the
> > > > noise
> > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> > chasing
> > > > a
> > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and
it
> > > > wasn't this
> > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this
and
> > this
> > > > was a
> > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the
valve
> > seal
> > > > from
> > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that,
the
> > all
> > > > went
> > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > > compression
> > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> > guage).
> > > > This
> > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2
which
> > was
> > > > 110.
> > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what
the
> > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go?
I'll
> > go
> > > > and get
> > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> > doing
> > > > the
> > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I
be
> > sure
> > > > it's
> > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> > tester
> > > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have
a
> > leak.
> > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> > around
> > > > right?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you
need a
> > > > valve
> > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead
push
> > rod
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in
'00
> > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I
rechecked my
> > > > valve
> > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> > condition.
> > > > When I
> > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve
up
> > > > while I
> > > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For
each
> > valve
> > > > I
> > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > > attached a
> > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released
the
> > air
> > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can
then
> > move
> > > > the
> > > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt
some
> > > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake
and
> > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head
had
> > play.
> > > > The
> > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with
the
> > work
> > > > I had
> > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when
the
> > leak
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2
I
> > heard
> > > > only
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked
#1
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> > been
> > > > released
> > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with
the
> > leak
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> > situation if
> > > > #2
> > > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5
cylinders
> > are
> > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with
it.
> > A
> > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> > wall on
> > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there
and
> > find
> > > > some
> > > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or
equipment
> > or
> > > > might
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed
and
> > go
> > > > to
> > > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the
engine,
> > clean
> > > > it,
> > > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k
installed.
> > > > Turn
> > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to
put
> > it
> > > > in.
> > > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a
7
> > year
> > > > 70,000
> > > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to
JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year
36,000
> > mile
> > > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the
narrower
> > > > scope of
> > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone
ever
> > dealt
> > > > with
> > > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written
above
> > are
> > > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 02:11 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till
tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a
gas smell?
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca...
> We got two threads going here....
>
> I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
> no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
> past the rings.
>
> How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
> >
> > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this
from
> > one cylinder?
> >
> > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep
getting
> > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing
around,
> > wouldn't it show up just at idle?
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue
cloud
> > > following you....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> > still
> > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle,
only
> > > > after I drive it.
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of
spark
> > is
> > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of
the
> > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue
'if'
> > the
> > > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then
hold/tie
> > the
> > > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the
same
> > put
> > > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then
put a
> > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole
and
> > test
> > > > > > the compression again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with
the
> > piston
> > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little,
then
> > you
> > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the
compression
> > of
> > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on
all
> > > > > > cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> > suspect
> > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now
and
> > then.
> > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it
easy.
> > If I
> > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> > thousand
> > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> > like
> > > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or
right
> > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs
available
> > (GM
> > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple
thousand
> > rpm I
> > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm
and
> > I
> > > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> > situation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> > However,
> > > > in
> > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on
it
> > > > requred
> > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't
take
> > out
> > > > the
> > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> > didn't
> > > > return
> > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky.
I
> > > > didn't
> > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the
original
> > > > places and
> > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> > because
> > > > I took
> > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop
said
> > the
> > > > noise
> > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> > chasing
> > > > a
> > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and
it
> > > > wasn't this
> > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this
and
> > this
> > > > was a
> > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the
valve
> > seal
> > > > from
> > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that,
the
> > all
> > > > went
> > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > > compression
> > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> > guage).
> > > > This
> > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2
which
> > was
> > > > 110.
> > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what
the
> > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go?
I'll
> > go
> > > > and get
> > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> > doing
> > > > the
> > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I
be
> > sure
> > > > it's
> > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> > tester
> > > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have
a
> > leak.
> > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> > around
> > > > right?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you
need a
> > > > valve
> > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead
push
> > rod
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in
'00
> > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I
rechecked my
> > > > valve
> > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> > condition.
> > > > When I
> > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve
up
> > > > while I
> > > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For
each
> > valve
> > > > I
> > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > > attached a
> > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released
the
> > air
> > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can
then
> > move
> > > > the
> > > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt
some
> > > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake
and
> > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head
had
> > play.
> > > > The
> > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with
the
> > work
> > > > I had
> > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when
the
> > leak
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2
I
> > heard
> > > > only
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked
#1
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> > been
> > > > released
> > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with
the
> > leak
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> > situation if
> > > > #2
> > > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5
cylinders
> > are
> > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with
it.
> > A
> > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> > wall on
> > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there
and
> > find
> > > > some
> > > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or
equipment
> > or
> > > > might
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed
and
> > go
> > > > to
> > > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the
engine,
> > clean
> > > > it,
> > > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k
installed.
> > > > Turn
> > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to
put
> > it
> > > > in.
> > > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a
7
> > year
> > > > 70,000
> > > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to
JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year
36,000
> > mile
> > > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the
narrower
> > > > scope of
> > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone
ever
> > dealt
> > > > with
> > > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written
above
> > are
> > > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bill
tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a
gas smell?
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca...
> We got two threads going here....
>
> I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
> no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
> past the rings.
>
> How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
> >
> > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this
from
> > one cylinder?
> >
> > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep
getting
> > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing
around,
> > wouldn't it show up just at idle?
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue
cloud
> > > following you....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> > still
> > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle,
only
> > > > after I drive it.
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of
spark
> > is
> > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of
the
> > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue
'if'
> > the
> > > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then
hold/tie
> > the
> > > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the
same
> > put
> > > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then
put a
> > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole
and
> > test
> > > > > > the compression again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with
the
> > piston
> > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little,
then
> > you
> > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the
compression
> > of
> > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on
all
> > > > > > cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> > suspect
> > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now
and
> > then.
> > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it
easy.
> > If I
> > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> > thousand
> > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> > like
> > > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or
right
> > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs
available
> > (GM
> > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple
thousand
> > rpm I
> > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm
and
> > I
> > > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> > situation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> > However,
> > > > in
> > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on
it
> > > > requred
> > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't
take
> > out
> > > > the
> > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> > didn't
> > > > return
> > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky.
I
> > > > didn't
> > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the
original
> > > > places and
> > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> > because
> > > > I took
> > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop
said
> > the
> > > > noise
> > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> > chasing
> > > > a
> > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and
it
> > > > wasn't this
> > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this
and
> > this
> > > > was a
> > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the
valve
> > seal
> > > > from
> > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that,
the
> > all
> > > > went
> > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > > compression
> > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> > guage).
> > > > This
> > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2
which
> > was
> > > > 110.
> > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what
the
> > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go?
I'll
> > go
> > > > and get
> > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> > doing
> > > > the
> > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I
be
> > sure
> > > > it's
> > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> > tester
> > > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have
a
> > leak.
> > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> > around
> > > > right?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you
need a
> > > > valve
> > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead
push
> > rod
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in
'00
> > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I
rechecked my
> > > > valve
> > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> > condition.
> > > > When I
> > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve
up
> > > > while I
> > > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For
each
> > valve
> > > > I
> > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > > attached a
> > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released
the
> > air
> > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can
then
> > move
> > > > the
> > > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt
some
> > > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake
and
> > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head
had
> > play.
> > > > The
> > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with
the
> > work
> > > > I had
> > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when
the
> > leak
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2
I
> > heard
> > > > only
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked
#1
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> > been
> > > > released
> > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with
the
> > leak
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> > situation if
> > > > #2
> > > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5
cylinders
> > are
> > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with
it.
> > A
> > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> > wall on
> > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there
and
> > find
> > > > some
> > > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or
equipment
> > or
> > > > might
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed
and
> > go
> > > > to
> > > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the
engine,
> > clean
> > > > it,
> > > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k
installed.
> > > > Turn
> > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to
put
> > it
> > > > in.
> > > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a
7
> > year
> > > > 70,000
> > > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to
JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year
36,000
> > mile
> > > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the
narrower
> > > > scope of
> > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone
ever
> > dealt
> > > > with
> > > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written
above
> > are
> > > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 02:11 PM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till
tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a
gas smell?
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca...
> We got two threads going here....
>
> I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
> no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
> past the rings.
>
> How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
> >
> > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this
from
> > one cylinder?
> >
> > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep
getting
> > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing
around,
> > wouldn't it show up just at idle?
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue
cloud
> > > following you....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> > still
> > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle,
only
> > > > after I drive it.
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of
spark
> > is
> > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of
the
> > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue
'if'
> > the
> > > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then
hold/tie
> > the
> > > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the
same
> > put
> > > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then
put a
> > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole
and
> > test
> > > > > > the compression again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with
the
> > piston
> > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little,
then
> > you
> > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the
compression
> > of
> > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on
all
> > > > > > cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> > suspect
> > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now
and
> > then.
> > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it
easy.
> > If I
> > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> > thousand
> > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> > like
> > > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or
right
> > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs
available
> > (GM
> > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple
thousand
> > rpm I
> > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm
and
> > I
> > > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> > situation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> > However,
> > > > in
> > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on
it
> > > > requred
> > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't
take
> > out
> > > > the
> > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> > didn't
> > > > return
> > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky.
I
> > > > didn't
> > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the
original
> > > > places and
> > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> > because
> > > > I took
> > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop
said
> > the
> > > > noise
> > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> > chasing
> > > > a
> > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and
it
> > > > wasn't this
> > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this
and
> > this
> > > > was a
> > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the
valve
> > seal
> > > > from
> > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that,
the
> > all
> > > > went
> > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > > compression
> > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> > guage).
> > > > This
> > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2
which
> > was
> > > > 110.
> > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what
the
> > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go?
I'll
> > go
> > > > and get
> > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> > doing
> > > > the
> > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I
be
> > sure
> > > > it's
> > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> > tester
> > > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have
a
> > leak.
> > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> > around
> > > > right?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you
need a
> > > > valve
> > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead
push
> > rod
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in
'00
> > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I
rechecked my
> > > > valve
> > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> > condition.
> > > > When I
> > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve
up
> > > > while I
> > > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For
each
> > valve
> > > > I
> > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > > attached a
> > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released
the
> > air
> > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can
then
> > move
> > > > the
> > > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt
some
> > > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake
and
> > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head
had
> > play.
> > > > The
> > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with
the
> > work
> > > > I had
> > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when
the
> > leak
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2
I
> > heard
> > > > only
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked
#1
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> > been
> > > > released
> > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with
the
> > leak
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> > situation if
> > > > #2
> > > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5
cylinders
> > are
> > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with
it.
> > A
> > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> > wall on
> > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there
and
> > find
> > > > some
> > > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or
equipment
> > or
> > > > might
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed
and
> > go
> > > > to
> > > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the
engine,
> > clean
> > > > it,
> > > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k
installed.
> > > > Turn
> > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to
put
> > it
> > > > in.
> > > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a
7
> > year
> > > > 70,000
> > > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to
JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year
36,000
> > mile
> > > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the
narrower
> > > > scope of
> > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone
ever
> > dealt
> > > > with
> > > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written
above
> > are
> > > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bill
tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a
gas smell?
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca...
> We got two threads going here....
>
> I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
> no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
> past the rings.
>
> How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
> >
> > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this
from
> > one cylinder?
> >
> > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep
getting
> > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing
around,
> > wouldn't it show up just at idle?
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue
cloud
> > > following you....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> > still
> > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle,
only
> > > > after I drive it.
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of
spark
> > is
> > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of
the
> > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue
'if'
> > the
> > > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then
hold/tie
> > the
> > > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the
same
> > put
> > > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then
put a
> > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole
and
> > test
> > > > > > the compression again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with
the
> > piston
> > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little,
then
> > you
> > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the
compression
> > of
> > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on
all
> > > > > > cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> > suspect
> > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now
and
> > then.
> > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it
easy.
> > If I
> > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> > thousand
> > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> > like
> > > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or
right
> > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs
available
> > (GM
> > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple
thousand
> > rpm I
> > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm
and
> > I
> > > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> > situation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> > However,
> > > > in
> > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on
it
> > > > requred
> > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't
take
> > out
> > > > the
> > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> > didn't
> > > > return
> > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky.
I
> > > > didn't
> > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the
original
> > > > places and
> > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> > because
> > > > I took
> > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop
said
> > the
> > > > noise
> > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> > chasing
> > > > a
> > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and
it
> > > > wasn't this
> > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this
and
> > this
> > > > was a
> > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the
valve
> > seal
> > > > from
> > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that,
the
> > all
> > > > went
> > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > > compression
> > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> > guage).
> > > > This
> > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2
which
> > was
> > > > 110.
> > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what
the
> > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go?
I'll
> > go
> > > > and get
> > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> > doing
> > > > the
> > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I
be
> > sure
> > > > it's
> > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> > tester
> > > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have
a
> > leak.
> > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> > around
> > > > right?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you
need a
> > > > valve
> > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead
push
> > rod
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in
'00
> > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I
rechecked my
> > > > valve
> > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> > condition.
> > > > When I
> > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve
up
> > > > while I
> > > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For
each
> > valve
> > > > I
> > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > > attached a
> > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released
the
> > air
> > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can
then
> > move
> > > > the
> > > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt
some
> > > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake
and
> > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head
had
> > play.
> > > > The
> > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with
the
> > work
> > > > I had
> > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when
the
> > leak
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2
I
> > heard
> > > > only
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked
#1
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> > been
> > > > released
> > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with
the
> > leak
> > > > down
> > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> > situation if
> > > > #2
> > > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5
cylinders
> > are
> > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with
it.
> > A
> > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> > wall on
> > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there
and
> > find
> > > > some
> > > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or
equipment
> > or
> > > > might
> > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed
and
> > go
> > > > to
> > > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the
engine,
> > clean
> > > > it,
> > > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k
installed.
> > > > Turn
> > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to
put
> > it
> > > > in.
> > > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a
7
> > year
> > > > 70,000
> > > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to
JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year
36,000
> > mile
> > > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the
narrower
> > > > scope of
> > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone
ever
> > dealt
> > > > with
> > > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written
above
> > are
> > > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 03:12 PM
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Yes, if you have a stuck injector it will wash down the cylinder and may
contaminate the oil with gas.
Same for the plug, give it a smell after a run.
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till
> tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a
> gas smell?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca...
> > We got two threads going here....
> >
> > I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
> > no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
> > past the rings.
> >
> > How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> > > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
> > >
> > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this
> from
> > > one cylinder?
> > >
> > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep
> getting
> > > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing
> around,
> > > wouldn't it show up just at idle?
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue
> cloud
> > > > following you....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> > > still
> > > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle,
> only
> > > > > after I drive it.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of
> spark
> > > is
> > > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of
> the
> > > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue
> 'if'
> > > the
> > > > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then
> hold/tie
> > > the
> > > > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the
> same
> > > put
> > > > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then
> put a
> > > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole
> and
> > > test
> > > > > > > the compression again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with
> the
> > > piston
> > > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little,
> then
> > > you
> > > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the
> compression
> > > of
> > > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on
> all
> > > > > > > cylinders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> > > suspect
> > > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now
> and
> > > then.
> > > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it
> easy.
> > > If I
> > > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> > > thousand
> > > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> > > like
> > > > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or
> right
> > > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs
> available
> > > (GM
> > > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple
> thousand
> > > rpm I
> > > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm
> and
> > > I
> > > > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> > > situation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> > > However,
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on
> it
> > > > > requred
> > > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't
> take
> > > out
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> > > didn't
> > > > > return
> > > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky.
> I
> > > > > didn't
> > > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the
> original
> > > > > places and
> > > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> > > because
> > > > > I took
> > > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop
> said
> > > the
> > > > > noise
> > > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> > > chasing
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and
> it
> > > > > wasn't this
> > > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this
> and
> > > this
> > > > > was a
> > > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the
> valve
> > > seal
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that,
> the
> > > all
> > > > > went
> > > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > > > compression
> > > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> > > guage).
> > > > > This
> > > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2
> which
> > > was
> > > > > 110.
> > > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what
> the
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go?
> I'll
> > > go
> > > > > and get
> > > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> > > doing
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I
> be
> > > sure
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> > > tester
> > > > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have
> a
> > > leak.
> > > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> > > around
> > > > > right?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you
> need a
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead
> push
> > > rod
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in
> '00
> > > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I
> rechecked my
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> > > condition.
> > > > > When I
> > > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve
> up
> > > > > while I
> > > > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For
> each
> > > valve
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > > > attached a
> > > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released
> the
> > > air
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can
> then
> > > move
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt
> some
> > > > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake
> and
> > > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head
> had
> > > play.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with
> the
> > > work
> > > > > I had
> > > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when
> the
> > > leak
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2
> I
> > > heard
> > > > > only
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked
> #1
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> > > been
> > > > > released
> > > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with
> the
> > > leak
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> > > situation if
> > > > > #2
> > > > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5
> cylinders
> > > are
> > > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with
> it.
> > > A
> > > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> > > wall on
> > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there
> and
> > > find
> > > > > some
> > > > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or
> equipment
> > > or
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed
> and
> > > go
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the
> engine,
> > > clean
> > > > > it,
> > > > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k
> installed.
> > > > > Turn
> > > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to
> put
> > > it
> > > > > in.
> > > > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a
> 7
> > > year
> > > > > 70,000
> > > > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to
> JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year
> 36,000
> > > mile
> > > > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the
> narrower
> > > > > scope of
> > > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone
> ever
> > > dealt
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written
> above
> > > are
> > > > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bill
contaminate the oil with gas.
Same for the plug, give it a smell after a run.
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till
> tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a
> gas smell?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca...
> > We got two threads going here....
> >
> > I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
> > no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
> > past the rings.
> >
> > How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> > > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
> > >
> > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this
> from
> > > one cylinder?
> > >
> > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep
> getting
> > > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing
> around,
> > > wouldn't it show up just at idle?
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue
> cloud
> > > > following you....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> > > still
> > > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle,
> only
> > > > > after I drive it.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of
> spark
> > > is
> > > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of
> the
> > > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue
> 'if'
> > > the
> > > > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then
> hold/tie
> > > the
> > > > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the
> same
> > > put
> > > > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then
> put a
> > > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole
> and
> > > test
> > > > > > > the compression again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with
> the
> > > piston
> > > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little,
> then
> > > you
> > > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the
> compression
> > > of
> > > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on
> all
> > > > > > > cylinders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> > > suspect
> > > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now
> and
> > > then.
> > > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it
> easy.
> > > If I
> > > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> > > thousand
> > > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> > > like
> > > > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or
> right
> > > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs
> available
> > > (GM
> > > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple
> thousand
> > > rpm I
> > > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm
> and
> > > I
> > > > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> > > situation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> > > However,
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on
> it
> > > > > requred
> > > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't
> take
> > > out
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> > > didn't
> > > > > return
> > > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky.
> I
> > > > > didn't
> > > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the
> original
> > > > > places and
> > > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> > > because
> > > > > I took
> > > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop
> said
> > > the
> > > > > noise
> > > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> > > chasing
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and
> it
> > > > > wasn't this
> > > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this
> and
> > > this
> > > > > was a
> > > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the
> valve
> > > seal
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that,
> the
> > > all
> > > > > went
> > > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > > > compression
> > > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> > > guage).
> > > > > This
> > > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2
> which
> > > was
> > > > > 110.
> > > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what
> the
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go?
> I'll
> > > go
> > > > > and get
> > > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> > > doing
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I
> be
> > > sure
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> > > tester
> > > > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have
> a
> > > leak.
> > > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> > > around
> > > > > right?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you
> need a
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead
> push
> > > rod
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in
> '00
> > > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I
> rechecked my
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> > > condition.
> > > > > When I
> > > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve
> up
> > > > > while I
> > > > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For
> each
> > > valve
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > > > attached a
> > > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released
> the
> > > air
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can
> then
> > > move
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt
> some
> > > > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake
> and
> > > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head
> had
> > > play.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with
> the
> > > work
> > > > > I had
> > > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when
> the
> > > leak
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2
> I
> > > heard
> > > > > only
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked
> #1
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> > > been
> > > > > released
> > > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with
> the
> > > leak
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> > > situation if
> > > > > #2
> > > > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5
> cylinders
> > > are
> > > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with
> it.
> > > A
> > > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> > > wall on
> > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there
> and
> > > find
> > > > > some
> > > > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or
> equipment
> > > or
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed
> and
> > > go
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the
> engine,
> > > clean
> > > > > it,
> > > > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k
> installed.
> > > > > Turn
> > > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to
> put
> > > it
> > > > > in.
> > > > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a
> 7
> > > year
> > > > > 70,000
> > > > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to
> JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year
> 36,000
> > > mile
> > > > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the
> narrower
> > > > > scope of
> > > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone
> ever
> > > dealt
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written
> above
> > > are
> > > > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 03:12 PM
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Yes, if you have a stuck injector it will wash down the cylinder and may
contaminate the oil with gas.
Same for the plug, give it a smell after a run.
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till
> tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a
> gas smell?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca...
> > We got two threads going here....
> >
> > I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
> > no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
> > past the rings.
> >
> > How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> > > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
> > >
> > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this
> from
> > > one cylinder?
> > >
> > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep
> getting
> > > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing
> around,
> > > wouldn't it show up just at idle?
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue
> cloud
> > > > following you....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> > > still
> > > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle,
> only
> > > > > after I drive it.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of
> spark
> > > is
> > > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of
> the
> > > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue
> 'if'
> > > the
> > > > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then
> hold/tie
> > > the
> > > > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the
> same
> > > put
> > > > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then
> put a
> > > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole
> and
> > > test
> > > > > > > the compression again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with
> the
> > > piston
> > > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little,
> then
> > > you
> > > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the
> compression
> > > of
> > > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on
> all
> > > > > > > cylinders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> > > suspect
> > > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now
> and
> > > then.
> > > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it
> easy.
> > > If I
> > > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> > > thousand
> > > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> > > like
> > > > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or
> right
> > > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs
> available
> > > (GM
> > > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple
> thousand
> > > rpm I
> > > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm
> and
> > > I
> > > > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> > > situation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> > > However,
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on
> it
> > > > > requred
> > > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't
> take
> > > out
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> > > didn't
> > > > > return
> > > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky.
> I
> > > > > didn't
> > > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the
> original
> > > > > places and
> > > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> > > because
> > > > > I took
> > > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop
> said
> > > the
> > > > > noise
> > > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> > > chasing
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and
> it
> > > > > wasn't this
> > > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this
> and
> > > this
> > > > > was a
> > > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the
> valve
> > > seal
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that,
> the
> > > all
> > > > > went
> > > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > > > compression
> > > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> > > guage).
> > > > > This
> > > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2
> which
> > > was
> > > > > 110.
> > > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what
> the
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go?
> I'll
> > > go
> > > > > and get
> > > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> > > doing
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I
> be
> > > sure
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> > > tester
> > > > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have
> a
> > > leak.
> > > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> > > around
> > > > > right?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you
> need a
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead
> push
> > > rod
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in
> '00
> > > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I
> rechecked my
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> > > condition.
> > > > > When I
> > > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve
> up
> > > > > while I
> > > > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For
> each
> > > valve
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > > > attached a
> > > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released
> the
> > > air
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can
> then
> > > move
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt
> some
> > > > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake
> and
> > > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head
> had
> > > play.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with
> the
> > > work
> > > > > I had
> > > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when
> the
> > > leak
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2
> I
> > > heard
> > > > > only
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked
> #1
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> > > been
> > > > > released
> > > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with
> the
> > > leak
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> > > situation if
> > > > > #2
> > > > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5
> cylinders
> > > are
> > > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with
> it.
> > > A
> > > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> > > wall on
> > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there
> and
> > > find
> > > > > some
> > > > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or
> equipment
> > > or
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed
> and
> > > go
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the
> engine,
> > > clean
> > > > > it,
> > > > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k
> installed.
> > > > > Turn
> > > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to
> put
> > > it
> > > > > in.
> > > > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a
> 7
> > > year
> > > > > 70,000
> > > > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to
> JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year
> 36,000
> > > mile
> > > > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the
> narrower
> > > > > scope of
> > > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone
> ever
> > > dealt
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written
> above
> > > are
> > > > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bill
contaminate the oil with gas.
Same for the plug, give it a smell after a run.
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till
> tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a
> gas smell?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca...
> > We got two threads going here....
> >
> > I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
> > no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
> > past the rings.
> >
> > How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> > > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
> > >
> > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this
> from
> > > one cylinder?
> > >
> > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep
> getting
> > > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing
> around,
> > > wouldn't it show up just at idle?
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue
> cloud
> > > > following you....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> > > still
> > > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle,
> only
> > > > > after I drive it.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of
> spark
> > > is
> > > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of
> the
> > > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue
> 'if'
> > > the
> > > > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then
> hold/tie
> > > the
> > > > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the
> same
> > > put
> > > > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then
> put a
> > > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole
> and
> > > test
> > > > > > > the compression again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with
> the
> > > piston
> > > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little,
> then
> > > you
> > > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the
> compression
> > > of
> > > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on
> all
> > > > > > > cylinders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> > > suspect
> > > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now
> and
> > > then.
> > > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it
> easy.
> > > If I
> > > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> > > thousand
> > > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> > > like
> > > > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or
> right
> > > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs
> available
> > > (GM
> > > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple
> thousand
> > > rpm I
> > > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm
> and
> > > I
> > > > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> > > situation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> > > However,
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on
> it
> > > > > requred
> > > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't
> take
> > > out
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> > > didn't
> > > > > return
> > > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky.
> I
> > > > > didn't
> > > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the
> original
> > > > > places and
> > > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> > > because
> > > > > I took
> > > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop
> said
> > > the
> > > > > noise
> > > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> > > chasing
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and
> it
> > > > > wasn't this
> > > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this
> and
> > > this
> > > > > was a
> > > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the
> valve
> > > seal
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that,
> the
> > > all
> > > > > went
> > > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > > > compression
> > > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> > > guage).
> > > > > This
> > > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2
> which
> > > was
> > > > > 110.
> > > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what
> the
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go?
> I'll
> > > go
> > > > > and get
> > > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> > > doing
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I
> be
> > > sure
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> > > tester
> > > > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have
> a
> > > leak.
> > > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> > > around
> > > > > right?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you
> need a
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead
> push
> > > rod
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in
> '00
> > > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I
> rechecked my
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> > > condition.
> > > > > When I
> > > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve
> up
> > > > > while I
> > > > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For
> each
> > > valve
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > > > attached a
> > > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released
> the
> > > air
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can
> then
> > > move
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt
> some
> > > > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake
> and
> > > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head
> had
> > > play.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with
> the
> > > work
> > > > > I had
> > > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when
> the
> > > leak
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2
> I
> > > heard
> > > > > only
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked
> #1
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> > > been
> > > > > released
> > > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with
> the
> > > leak
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> > > situation if
> > > > > #2
> > > > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5
> cylinders
> > > are
> > > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with
> it.
> > > A
> > > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> > > wall on
> > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there
> and
> > > find
> > > > > some
> > > > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or
> equipment
> > > or
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed
> and
> > > go
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the
> engine,
> > > clean
> > > > > it,
> > > > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k
> installed.
> > > > > Turn
> > > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to
> put
> > > it
> > > > > in.
> > > > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a
> 7
> > > year
> > > > > 70,000
> > > > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to
> JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year
> 36,000
> > > mile
> > > > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the
> narrower
> > > > > scope of
> > > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone
> ever
> > > dealt
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written
> above
> > > are
> > > > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 03:12 PM
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Yes, if you have a stuck injector it will wash down the cylinder and may
contaminate the oil with gas.
Same for the plug, give it a smell after a run.
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till
> tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a
> gas smell?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca...
> > We got two threads going here....
> >
> > I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
> > no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
> > past the rings.
> >
> > How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> > > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
> > >
> > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this
> from
> > > one cylinder?
> > >
> > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep
> getting
> > > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing
> around,
> > > wouldn't it show up just at idle?
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue
> cloud
> > > > following you....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> > > still
> > > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle,
> only
> > > > > after I drive it.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of
> spark
> > > is
> > > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of
> the
> > > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue
> 'if'
> > > the
> > > > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then
> hold/tie
> > > the
> > > > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the
> same
> > > put
> > > > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then
> put a
> > > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole
> and
> > > test
> > > > > > > the compression again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with
> the
> > > piston
> > > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little,
> then
> > > you
> > > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the
> compression
> > > of
> > > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on
> all
> > > > > > > cylinders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> > > suspect
> > > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now
> and
> > > then.
> > > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it
> easy.
> > > If I
> > > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> > > thousand
> > > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> > > like
> > > > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or
> right
> > > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs
> available
> > > (GM
> > > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple
> thousand
> > > rpm I
> > > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm
> and
> > > I
> > > > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> > > situation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> > > However,
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on
> it
> > > > > requred
> > > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't
> take
> > > out
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> > > didn't
> > > > > return
> > > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky.
> I
> > > > > didn't
> > > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the
> original
> > > > > places and
> > > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> > > because
> > > > > I took
> > > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop
> said
> > > the
> > > > > noise
> > > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> > > chasing
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and
> it
> > > > > wasn't this
> > > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this
> and
> > > this
> > > > > was a
> > > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the
> valve
> > > seal
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that,
> the
> > > all
> > > > > went
> > > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > > > compression
> > > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> > > guage).
> > > > > This
> > > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2
> which
> > > was
> > > > > 110.
> > > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what
> the
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go?
> I'll
> > > go
> > > > > and get
> > > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> > > doing
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I
> be
> > > sure
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> > > tester
> > > > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have
> a
> > > leak.
> > > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> > > around
> > > > > right?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you
> need a
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead
> push
> > > rod
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in
> '00
> > > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I
> rechecked my
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> > > condition.
> > > > > When I
> > > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve
> up
> > > > > while I
> > > > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For
> each
> > > valve
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > > > attached a
> > > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released
> the
> > > air
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can
> then
> > > move
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt
> some
> > > > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake
> and
> > > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head
> had
> > > play.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with
> the
> > > work
> > > > > I had
> > > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when
> the
> > > leak
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2
> I
> > > heard
> > > > > only
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked
> #1
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> > > been
> > > > > released
> > > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with
> the
> > > leak
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> > > situation if
> > > > > #2
> > > > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5
> cylinders
> > > are
> > > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with
> it.
> > > A
> > > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> > > wall on
> > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there
> and
> > > find
> > > > > some
> > > > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or
> equipment
> > > or
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed
> and
> > > go
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the
> engine,
> > > clean
> > > > > it,
> > > > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k
> installed.
> > > > > Turn
> > > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to
> put
> > > it
> > > > > in.
> > > > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a
> 7
> > > year
> > > > > 70,000
> > > > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to
> JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year
> 36,000
> > > mile
> > > > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the
> narrower
> > > > > scope of
> > > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone
> ever
> > > dealt
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written
> above
> > > are
> > > > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bill
contaminate the oil with gas.
Same for the plug, give it a smell after a run.
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Haven't smelled it yet. I'm out of town and won't be able to see it till
> tonight. What should I be looking for in that smell? Are you expecting a
> gas smell?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402686DB.B31B313C@sympatico.ca...
> > We got two threads going here....
> >
> > I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
> > no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
> > past the rings.
> >
> > How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
> > > fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
> > >
> > > However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this
> from
> > > one cylinder?
> > >
> > > I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep
> getting
> > > more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing
> around,
> > > wouldn't it show up just at idle?
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue
> cloud
> > > > following you....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
> > > still
> > > > > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle,
> only
> > > > > after I drive it.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of
> spark
> > > is
> > > > > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of
> the
> > > > > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue
> 'if'
> > > the
> > > > > > > compression is strange.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then
> hold/tie
> > > the
> > > > > > > throttle wide open.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the
> same
> > > put
> > > > > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then
> put a
> > > > > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole
> and
> > > test
> > > > > > > the compression again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with
> the
> > > piston
> > > > > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little,
> then
> > > you
> > > > > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the
> compression
> > > of
> > > > > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on
> all
> > > > > > > cylinders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
> > > suspect
> > > > > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now
> and
> > > then.
> > > > > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it
> easy.
> > > If I
> > > > > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
> > > thousand
> > > > > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
> > > like
> > > > > > > 500 miles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or
> right
> > > > > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs
> available
> > > (GM
> > > > > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple
> thousand
> > > rpm I
> > > > > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm
> and
> > > I
> > > > > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
> > > situation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
> > > However,
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on
> it
> > > > > requred
> > > > > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't
> take
> > > out
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
> > > didn't
> > > > > return
> > > > > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky.
> I
> > > > > didn't
> > > > > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the
> original
> > > > > places and
> > > > > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
> > > because
> > > > > I took
> > > > > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop
> said
> > > the
> > > > > noise
> > > > > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
> > > chasing
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and
> it
> > > > > wasn't this
> > > > > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this
> and
> > > this
> > > > > was a
> > > > > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the
> valve
> > > seal
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that,
> the
> > > all
> > > > > went
> > > > > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > > > > compression
> > > > > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
> > > guage).
> > > > > This
> > > > > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2
> which
> > > was
> > > > > 110.
> > > > > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what
> the
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go?
> I'll
> > > go
> > > > > and get
> > > > > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
> > > doing
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I
> be
> > > sure
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
> > > tester
> > > > > > > > > comes....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have
> a
> > > leak.
> > > > > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
> > > around
> > > > > right?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you
> need a
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead
> push
> > > rod
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in
> '00
> > > > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I
> rechecked my
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > > seals
> > > > > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
> > > condition.
> > > > > When I
> > > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve
> up
> > > > > while I
> > > > > > > > took
> > > > > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For
> each
> > > valve
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > > > > attached a
> > > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released
> the
> > > air
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can
> then
> > > move
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > stem
> > > > > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt
> some
> > > > > noticeable
> > > > > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake
> and
> > > > > which is
> > > > > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head
> had
> > > play.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with
> the
> > > work
> > > > > I had
> > > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when
> the
> > > leak
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2
> I
> > > heard
> > > > > only
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked
> #1
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
> > > been
> > > > > released
> > > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > > > > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with
> the
> > > leak
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
> > > situation if
> > > > > #2
> > > > > > > > leak
> > > > > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5
> cylinders
> > > are
> > > > > good,
> > > > > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with
> it.
> > > A
> > > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
> > > wall on
> > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there
> and
> > > find
> > > > > some
> > > > > > > > worse
> > > > > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or
> equipment
> > > or
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed
> and
> > > go
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > option
> > > > > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the
> engine,
> > > clean
> > > > > it,
> > > > > > > > bore
> > > > > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k
> installed.
> > > > > Turn
> > > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to
> put
> > > it
> > > > > in.
> > > > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a
> 7
> > > year
> > > > > 70,000
> > > > > > > > mile
> > > > > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to
> JasperEngines.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year
> 36,000
> > > mile
> > > > > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > > > > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the
> narrower
> > > > > scope of
> > > > > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone
> ever
> > > dealt
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written
> above
> > > are
> > > > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 03:33 PM
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Hi Mike,
I'm with you, the hand held compression tester tells me all I need
to know.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> comes....
>
> A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
>
> A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
>
> I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> job. My guess still seems right...
>
> I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
>
> That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
>
> I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
I'm with you, the hand held compression tester tells me all I need
to know.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> comes....
>
> A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
>
> A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
>
> I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> job. My guess still seems right...
>
> I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
>
> That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
>
> I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's