Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
02-08-2004, 01:11 PM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I guess one thing I could do if it comes down to it is to rebuild the head
and if that doesn't work then have only the short block rebuilt as a follow
up.
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
#2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
and if that doesn't work then have only the short block rebuilt as a follow
up.
Bill
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
#2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 01:15 PM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
following you....
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still
> see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> after I drive it.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is
> > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > > compression is strange.
> > >
> > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > > throttle wide open.
> > >
> > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > > it back together and enjoy!
> > >
> > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > > the compression again.
> > >
> > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > >
> > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > cylinders.
> > >
> > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > >
> > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > > 500 miles.
> > >
> > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
> in
> > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> requred
> > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out
> the
> > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
> return
> > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> didn't
> > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> places and
> > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because
> I took
> > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
> noise
> > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing
> a
> > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > >
> > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> wasn't this
> > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
> was a
> > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
> from
> > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
> went
> > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > >
> > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> compression
> > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
> This
> > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
> 110.
> > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> mechanic
> > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > >
> > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go
> and get
> > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing
> the
> > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
> it's
> > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > > comes....
> > > > >
> > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
> right?
> > > > >
> > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > >
> > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> valve
> > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with
> the
> > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
> and
> > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> valve
> > > > seals
> > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
> When I
> > > > did
> > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> while I
> > > > took
> > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve
> I
> > > > also
> > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> attached a
> > > > long
> > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
> in
> > > > the
> > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
> the
> > > > stem
> > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> noticeable
> > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> which is
> > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
> The
> > > > one
> > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work
> I had
> > > > done
> > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
> down
> > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
> only
> > > > a
> > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
> the
> > > > same
> > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
> released
> > > > so
> > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
> down
> > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
> #2
> > > > leak
> > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
> good,
> > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
> lot of
> > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
> time.
> > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
> some
> > > > worse
> > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
> might
> > > > get
> > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go
> to
> > > > option
> > > > > > #2.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
> it,
> > > > bore
> > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> Turn
> > > > around
> > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it
> in.
> > > > They
> > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
> 70,000
> > > > mile
> > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > > warranty.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> scope of
> > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
> with
> > > > RJE
> > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > > welcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
following you....
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still
> see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> after I drive it.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is
> > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > > compression is strange.
> > >
> > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > > throttle wide open.
> > >
> > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > > it back together and enjoy!
> > >
> > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > > the compression again.
> > >
> > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > >
> > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > cylinders.
> > >
> > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > >
> > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > > 500 miles.
> > >
> > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
> in
> > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> requred
> > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out
> the
> > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
> return
> > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> didn't
> > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> places and
> > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because
> I took
> > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
> noise
> > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing
> a
> > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > >
> > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> wasn't this
> > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
> was a
> > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
> from
> > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
> went
> > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > >
> > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> compression
> > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
> This
> > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
> 110.
> > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> mechanic
> > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > >
> > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go
> and get
> > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing
> the
> > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
> it's
> > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > > comes....
> > > > >
> > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
> right?
> > > > >
> > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > >
> > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> valve
> > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with
> the
> > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
> and
> > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> valve
> > > > seals
> > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
> When I
> > > > did
> > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> while I
> > > > took
> > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve
> I
> > > > also
> > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> attached a
> > > > long
> > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
> in
> > > > the
> > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
> the
> > > > stem
> > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> noticeable
> > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> which is
> > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
> The
> > > > one
> > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work
> I had
> > > > done
> > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
> down
> > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
> only
> > > > a
> > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
> the
> > > > same
> > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
> released
> > > > so
> > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
> down
> > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
> #2
> > > > leak
> > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
> good,
> > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
> lot of
> > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
> time.
> > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
> some
> > > > worse
> > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
> might
> > > > get
> > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go
> to
> > > > option
> > > > > > #2.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
> it,
> > > > bore
> > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> Turn
> > > > around
> > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it
> in.
> > > > They
> > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
> 70,000
> > > > mile
> > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > > warranty.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> scope of
> > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
> with
> > > > RJE
> > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > > welcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 01:15 PM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
following you....
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still
> see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> after I drive it.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is
> > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > > compression is strange.
> > >
> > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > > throttle wide open.
> > >
> > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > > it back together and enjoy!
> > >
> > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > > the compression again.
> > >
> > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > >
> > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > cylinders.
> > >
> > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > >
> > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > > 500 miles.
> > >
> > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
> in
> > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> requred
> > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out
> the
> > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
> return
> > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> didn't
> > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> places and
> > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because
> I took
> > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
> noise
> > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing
> a
> > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > >
> > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> wasn't this
> > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
> was a
> > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
> from
> > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
> went
> > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > >
> > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> compression
> > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
> This
> > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
> 110.
> > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> mechanic
> > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > >
> > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go
> and get
> > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing
> the
> > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
> it's
> > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > > comes....
> > > > >
> > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
> right?
> > > > >
> > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > >
> > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> valve
> > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with
> the
> > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
> and
> > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> valve
> > > > seals
> > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
> When I
> > > > did
> > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> while I
> > > > took
> > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve
> I
> > > > also
> > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> attached a
> > > > long
> > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
> in
> > > > the
> > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
> the
> > > > stem
> > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> noticeable
> > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> which is
> > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
> The
> > > > one
> > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work
> I had
> > > > done
> > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
> down
> > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
> only
> > > > a
> > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
> the
> > > > same
> > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
> released
> > > > so
> > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
> down
> > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
> #2
> > > > leak
> > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
> good,
> > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
> lot of
> > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
> time.
> > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
> some
> > > > worse
> > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
> might
> > > > get
> > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go
> to
> > > > option
> > > > > > #2.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
> it,
> > > > bore
> > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> Turn
> > > > around
> > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it
> in.
> > > > They
> > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
> 70,000
> > > > mile
> > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > > warranty.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> scope of
> > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
> with
> > > > RJE
> > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > > welcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
following you....
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still
> see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> after I drive it.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is
> > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > > compression is strange.
> > >
> > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > > throttle wide open.
> > >
> > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > > it back together and enjoy!
> > >
> > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > > the compression again.
> > >
> > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > >
> > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > cylinders.
> > >
> > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > >
> > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > > 500 miles.
> > >
> > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
> in
> > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> requred
> > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out
> the
> > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
> return
> > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> didn't
> > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> places and
> > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because
> I took
> > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
> noise
> > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing
> a
> > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > >
> > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> wasn't this
> > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
> was a
> > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
> from
> > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
> went
> > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > >
> > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> compression
> > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
> This
> > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
> 110.
> > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> mechanic
> > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > >
> > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go
> and get
> > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing
> the
> > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
> it's
> > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > > comes....
> > > > >
> > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
> right?
> > > > >
> > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > >
> > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> valve
> > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with
> the
> > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
> and
> > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> valve
> > > > seals
> > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
> When I
> > > > did
> > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> while I
> > > > took
> > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve
> I
> > > > also
> > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> attached a
> > > > long
> > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
> in
> > > > the
> > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
> the
> > > > stem
> > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> noticeable
> > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> which is
> > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
> The
> > > > one
> > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work
> I had
> > > > done
> > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
> down
> > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
> only
> > > > a
> > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
> the
> > > > same
> > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
> released
> > > > so
> > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
> down
> > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
> #2
> > > > leak
> > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
> good,
> > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
> lot of
> > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
> time.
> > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
> some
> > > > worse
> > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
> might
> > > > get
> > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go
> to
> > > > option
> > > > > > #2.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
> it,
> > > > bore
> > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> Turn
> > > > around
> > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it
> in.
> > > > They
> > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
> 70,000
> > > > mile
> > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > > warranty.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> scope of
> > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
> with
> > > > RJE
> > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > > welcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 01:15 PM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
following you....
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still
> see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> after I drive it.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is
> > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > > compression is strange.
> > >
> > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > > throttle wide open.
> > >
> > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > > it back together and enjoy!
> > >
> > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > > the compression again.
> > >
> > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > >
> > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > cylinders.
> > >
> > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > >
> > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > > 500 miles.
> > >
> > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
> in
> > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> requred
> > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out
> the
> > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
> return
> > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> didn't
> > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> places and
> > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because
> I took
> > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
> noise
> > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing
> a
> > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > >
> > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> wasn't this
> > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
> was a
> > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
> from
> > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
> went
> > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > >
> > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> compression
> > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
> This
> > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
> 110.
> > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> mechanic
> > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > >
> > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go
> and get
> > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing
> the
> > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
> it's
> > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > > comes....
> > > > >
> > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
> right?
> > > > >
> > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > >
> > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> valve
> > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with
> the
> > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
> and
> > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> valve
> > > > seals
> > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
> When I
> > > > did
> > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> while I
> > > > took
> > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve
> I
> > > > also
> > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> attached a
> > > > long
> > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
> in
> > > > the
> > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
> the
> > > > stem
> > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> noticeable
> > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> which is
> > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
> The
> > > > one
> > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work
> I had
> > > > done
> > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
> down
> > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
> only
> > > > a
> > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
> the
> > > > same
> > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
> released
> > > > so
> > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
> down
> > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
> #2
> > > > leak
> > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
> good,
> > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
> lot of
> > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
> time.
> > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
> some
> > > > worse
> > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
> might
> > > > get
> > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go
> to
> > > > option
> > > > > > #2.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
> it,
> > > > bore
> > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> Turn
> > > > around
> > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it
> in.
> > > > They
> > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
> 70,000
> > > > mile
> > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > > warranty.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> scope of
> > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
> with
> > > > RJE
> > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > > welcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
following you....
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and still
> see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> after I drive it.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is
> > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> > >
> > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > > compression is strange.
> > >
> > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > > throttle wide open.
> > >
> > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > > it back together and enjoy!
> > >
> > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > > the compression again.
> > >
> > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > >
> > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > cylinders.
> > >
> > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > >
> > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > > 500 miles.
> > >
> > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
> in
> > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> requred
> > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out
> the
> > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
> return
> > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> didn't
> > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> places and
> > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because
> I took
> > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
> noise
> > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing
> a
> > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > >
> > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> wasn't this
> > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
> was a
> > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
> from
> > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
> went
> > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > >
> > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> compression
> > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
> This
> > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
> 110.
> > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> mechanic
> > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > >
> > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go
> and get
> > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing
> the
> > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
> it's
> > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > > comes....
> > > > >
> > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
> right?
> > > > >
> > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > >
> > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> valve
> > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with
> the
> > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
> and
> > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > >
> > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> valve
> > > > seals
> > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
> When I
> > > > did
> > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> while I
> > > > took
> > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve
> I
> > > > also
> > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> attached a
> > > > long
> > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
> in
> > > > the
> > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
> the
> > > > stem
> > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> noticeable
> > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> which is
> > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
> The
> > > > one
> > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work
> I had
> > > > done
> > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
> down
> > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
> only
> > > > a
> > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
> the
> > > > same
> > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
> released
> > > > so
> > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
> down
> > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
> #2
> > > > leak
> > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
> good,
> > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
> lot of
> > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
> time.
> > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
> some
> > > > worse
> > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
> might
> > > > get
> > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go
> to
> > > > option
> > > > > > #2.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
> it,
> > > > bore
> > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> Turn
> > > > around
> > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it
> in.
> > > > They
> > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
> 70,000
> > > > mile
> > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > > warranty.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> scope of
> > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
> with
> > > > RJE
> > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > > welcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 01:45 PM
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from
one cylinder?
I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting
more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around,
wouldn't it show up just at idle?
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
> following you....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
still
> > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> > after I drive it.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark
is
> > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if'
the
> > > > compression is strange.
> > > >
> > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie
the
> > > > throttle wide open.
> > > >
> > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same
put
> > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > >
> > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and
test
> > > > the compression again.
> > > >
> > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the
piston
> > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then
you
> > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > >
> > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression
of
> > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > > cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
suspect
> > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and
then.
> > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy.
If I
> > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
thousand
> > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
like
> > > > 500 miles.
> > > >
> > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available
(GM
> > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand
rpm I
> > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and
I
> > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
However,
> > in
> > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> > requred
> > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take
out
> > the
> > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
didn't
> > return
> > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> > didn't
> > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> > places and
> > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
because
> > I took
> > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said
the
> > noise
> > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
chasing
> > a
> > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> > wasn't this
> > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and
this
> > was a
> > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve
seal
> > from
> > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the
all
> > went
> > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > compression
> > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
guage).
> > This
> > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which
was
> > 110.
> > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> > mechanic
> > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll
go
> > and get
> > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
doing
> > the
> > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be
sure
> > it's
> > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
tester
> > > > > > comes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a
leak.
> > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
around
> > right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> > valve
> > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
with
> > the
> > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push
rod
> > and
> > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> > valve
> > > > > seals
> > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
condition.
> > When I
> > > > > did
> > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> > while I
> > > > > took
> > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each
valve
> > I
> > > > > also
> > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > attached a
> > > > > long
> > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the
air
> > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then
move
> > the
> > > > > stem
> > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> > noticeable
> > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> > which is
> > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had
play.
> > The
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the
work
> > I had
> > > > > done
> > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the
leak
> > down
> > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I
heard
> > only
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1
with
> > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
been
> > released
> > > > > so
> > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the
leak
> > down
> > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
situation if
> > #2
> > > > > leak
> > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders
are
> > good,
> > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it.
A
> > lot of
> > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
wall on
> > time.
> > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and
find
> > some
> > > > > worse
> > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment
or
> > might
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and
go
> > to
> > > > > option
> > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine,
clean
> > it,
> > > > > bore
> > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> > Turn
> > > > > around
> > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put
it
> > in.
> > > > > They
> > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7
year
> > 70,000
> > > > > mile
> > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000
mile
> > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> > scope of
> > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever
dealt
> > with
> > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above
are
> > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from
one cylinder?
I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting
more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around,
wouldn't it show up just at idle?
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
> following you....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
still
> > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> > after I drive it.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark
is
> > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if'
the
> > > > compression is strange.
> > > >
> > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie
the
> > > > throttle wide open.
> > > >
> > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same
put
> > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > >
> > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and
test
> > > > the compression again.
> > > >
> > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the
piston
> > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then
you
> > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > >
> > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression
of
> > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > > cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
suspect
> > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and
then.
> > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy.
If I
> > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
thousand
> > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
like
> > > > 500 miles.
> > > >
> > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available
(GM
> > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand
rpm I
> > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and
I
> > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
However,
> > in
> > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> > requred
> > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take
out
> > the
> > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
didn't
> > return
> > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> > didn't
> > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> > places and
> > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
because
> > I took
> > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said
the
> > noise
> > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
chasing
> > a
> > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> > wasn't this
> > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and
this
> > was a
> > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve
seal
> > from
> > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the
all
> > went
> > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > compression
> > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
guage).
> > This
> > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which
was
> > 110.
> > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> > mechanic
> > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll
go
> > and get
> > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
doing
> > the
> > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be
sure
> > it's
> > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
tester
> > > > > > comes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a
leak.
> > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
around
> > right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> > valve
> > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
with
> > the
> > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push
rod
> > and
> > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> > valve
> > > > > seals
> > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
condition.
> > When I
> > > > > did
> > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> > while I
> > > > > took
> > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each
valve
> > I
> > > > > also
> > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > attached a
> > > > > long
> > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the
air
> > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then
move
> > the
> > > > > stem
> > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> > noticeable
> > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> > which is
> > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had
play.
> > The
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the
work
> > I had
> > > > > done
> > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the
leak
> > down
> > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I
heard
> > only
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1
with
> > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
been
> > released
> > > > > so
> > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the
leak
> > down
> > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
situation if
> > #2
> > > > > leak
> > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders
are
> > good,
> > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it.
A
> > lot of
> > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
wall on
> > time.
> > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and
find
> > some
> > > > > worse
> > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment
or
> > might
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and
go
> > to
> > > > > option
> > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine,
clean
> > it,
> > > > > bore
> > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> > Turn
> > > > > around
> > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put
it
> > in.
> > > > > They
> > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7
year
> > 70,000
> > > > > mile
> > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000
mile
> > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> > scope of
> > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever
dealt
> > with
> > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above
are
> > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 01:45 PM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from
one cylinder?
I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting
more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around,
wouldn't it show up just at idle?
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
> following you....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
still
> > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> > after I drive it.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark
is
> > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if'
the
> > > > compression is strange.
> > > >
> > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie
the
> > > > throttle wide open.
> > > >
> > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same
put
> > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > >
> > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and
test
> > > > the compression again.
> > > >
> > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the
piston
> > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then
you
> > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > >
> > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression
of
> > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > > cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
suspect
> > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and
then.
> > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy.
If I
> > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
thousand
> > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
like
> > > > 500 miles.
> > > >
> > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available
(GM
> > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand
rpm I
> > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and
I
> > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
However,
> > in
> > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> > requred
> > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take
out
> > the
> > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
didn't
> > return
> > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> > didn't
> > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> > places and
> > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
because
> > I took
> > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said
the
> > noise
> > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
chasing
> > a
> > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> > wasn't this
> > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and
this
> > was a
> > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve
seal
> > from
> > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the
all
> > went
> > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > compression
> > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
guage).
> > This
> > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which
was
> > 110.
> > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> > mechanic
> > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll
go
> > and get
> > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
doing
> > the
> > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be
sure
> > it's
> > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
tester
> > > > > > comes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a
leak.
> > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
around
> > right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> > valve
> > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
with
> > the
> > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push
rod
> > and
> > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> > valve
> > > > > seals
> > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
condition.
> > When I
> > > > > did
> > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> > while I
> > > > > took
> > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each
valve
> > I
> > > > > also
> > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > attached a
> > > > > long
> > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the
air
> > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then
move
> > the
> > > > > stem
> > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> > noticeable
> > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> > which is
> > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had
play.
> > The
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the
work
> > I had
> > > > > done
> > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the
leak
> > down
> > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I
heard
> > only
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1
with
> > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
been
> > released
> > > > > so
> > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the
leak
> > down
> > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
situation if
> > #2
> > > > > leak
> > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders
are
> > good,
> > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it.
A
> > lot of
> > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
wall on
> > time.
> > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and
find
> > some
> > > > > worse
> > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment
or
> > might
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and
go
> > to
> > > > > option
> > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine,
clean
> > it,
> > > > > bore
> > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> > Turn
> > > > > around
> > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put
it
> > in.
> > > > > They
> > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7
year
> > 70,000
> > > > > mile
> > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000
mile
> > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> > scope of
> > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever
dealt
> > with
> > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above
are
> > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from
one cylinder?
I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting
more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around,
wouldn't it show up just at idle?
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
> following you....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
still
> > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> > after I drive it.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark
is
> > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if'
the
> > > > compression is strange.
> > > >
> > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie
the
> > > > throttle wide open.
> > > >
> > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same
put
> > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > >
> > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and
test
> > > > the compression again.
> > > >
> > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the
piston
> > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then
you
> > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > >
> > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression
of
> > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > > cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
suspect
> > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and
then.
> > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy.
If I
> > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
thousand
> > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
like
> > > > 500 miles.
> > > >
> > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available
(GM
> > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand
rpm I
> > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and
I
> > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
However,
> > in
> > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> > requred
> > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take
out
> > the
> > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
didn't
> > return
> > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> > didn't
> > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> > places and
> > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
because
> > I took
> > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said
the
> > noise
> > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
chasing
> > a
> > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> > wasn't this
> > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and
this
> > was a
> > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve
seal
> > from
> > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the
all
> > went
> > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > compression
> > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
guage).
> > This
> > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which
was
> > 110.
> > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> > mechanic
> > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll
go
> > and get
> > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
doing
> > the
> > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be
sure
> > it's
> > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
tester
> > > > > > comes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a
leak.
> > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
around
> > right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> > valve
> > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
with
> > the
> > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push
rod
> > and
> > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> > valve
> > > > > seals
> > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
condition.
> > When I
> > > > > did
> > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> > while I
> > > > > took
> > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each
valve
> > I
> > > > > also
> > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > attached a
> > > > > long
> > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the
air
> > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then
move
> > the
> > > > > stem
> > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> > noticeable
> > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> > which is
> > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had
play.
> > The
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the
work
> > I had
> > > > > done
> > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the
leak
> > down
> > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I
heard
> > only
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1
with
> > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
been
> > released
> > > > > so
> > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the
leak
> > down
> > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
situation if
> > #2
> > > > > leak
> > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders
are
> > good,
> > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it.
A
> > lot of
> > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
wall on
> > time.
> > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and
find
> > some
> > > > > worse
> > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment
or
> > might
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and
go
> > to
> > > > > option
> > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine,
clean
> > it,
> > > > > bore
> > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> > Turn
> > > > > around
> > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put
it
> > in.
> > > > > They
> > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7
year
> > 70,000
> > > > > mile
> > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000
mile
> > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> > scope of
> > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever
dealt
> > with
> > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above
are
> > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 01:45 PM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
It's definately oil soaked. I pull it out and wet oil wipes off on my
fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from
one cylinder?
I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting
more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around,
wouldn't it show up just at idle?
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
> following you....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
still
> > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> > after I drive it.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark
is
> > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if'
the
> > > > compression is strange.
> > > >
> > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie
the
> > > > throttle wide open.
> > > >
> > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same
put
> > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > >
> > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and
test
> > > > the compression again.
> > > >
> > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the
piston
> > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then
you
> > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > >
> > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression
of
> > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > > cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
suspect
> > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and
then.
> > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy.
If I
> > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
thousand
> > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
like
> > > > 500 miles.
> > > >
> > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available
(GM
> > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand
rpm I
> > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and
I
> > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
However,
> > in
> > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> > requred
> > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take
out
> > the
> > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
didn't
> > return
> > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> > didn't
> > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> > places and
> > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
because
> > I took
> > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said
the
> > noise
> > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
chasing
> > a
> > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> > wasn't this
> > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and
this
> > was a
> > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve
seal
> > from
> > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the
all
> > went
> > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > compression
> > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
guage).
> > This
> > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which
was
> > 110.
> > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> > mechanic
> > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll
go
> > and get
> > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
doing
> > the
> > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be
sure
> > it's
> > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
tester
> > > > > > comes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a
leak.
> > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
around
> > right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> > valve
> > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
with
> > the
> > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push
rod
> > and
> > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> > valve
> > > > > seals
> > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
condition.
> > When I
> > > > > did
> > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> > while I
> > > > > took
> > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each
valve
> > I
> > > > > also
> > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > attached a
> > > > > long
> > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the
air
> > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then
move
> > the
> > > > > stem
> > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> > noticeable
> > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> > which is
> > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had
play.
> > The
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the
work
> > I had
> > > > > done
> > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the
leak
> > down
> > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I
heard
> > only
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1
with
> > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
been
> > released
> > > > > so
> > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the
leak
> > down
> > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
situation if
> > #2
> > > > > leak
> > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders
are
> > good,
> > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it.
A
> > lot of
> > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
wall on
> > time.
> > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and
find
> > some
> > > > > worse
> > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment
or
> > might
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and
go
> > to
> > > > > option
> > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine,
clean
> > it,
> > > > > bore
> > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> > Turn
> > > > > around
> > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put
it
> > in.
> > > > > They
> > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7
year
> > 70,000
> > > > > mile
> > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000
mile
> > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> > scope of
> > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever
dealt
> > with
> > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above
are
> > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
fingers from the treads. Black coating on the element.
However, I do not see at all a blue cloud behind me. Would I see this from
one cylinder?
I guess this could lead back to the injector but then, why do I keep getting
more oil in the cylinder. If the oil was already there sloshing around,
wouldn't it show up just at idle?
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40267CCA.B058367C@sympatico.ca...
> If it is oil and not gas soaked, then you must have one nasty blue cloud
> following you....
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > No, I haven't done that yet. I've gone through two plug changes and
still
> > see oil in the cylinder via the plug. It does not happen at idle, only
> > after I drive it.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40265DD2.BBD8D578@sympatico.ca...
> > > Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark
is
> > > gas related in #2 cylinder?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > > > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if'
the
> > > > compression is strange.
> > > >
> > > > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie
the
> > > > throttle wide open.
> > > >
> > > > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same
put
> > > > it back together and enjoy!
> > > >
> > > > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > > > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and
test
> > > > the compression again.
> > > >
> > > > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the
piston
> > > > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then
you
> > > > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> > > >
> > > > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression
of
> > > > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > > > cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them,
suspect
> > > > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and
then.
> > > > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy.
If I
> > > > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a
thousand
> > > > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more
like
> > > > 500 miles.
> > > >
> > > > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > > > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available
(GM
> > > > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand
rpm I
> > > > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and
I
> > > > was told it was from valve float.)
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult
situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping.
However,
> > in
> > > > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it
> > requred
> > > > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take
out
> > the
> > > > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I
didn't
> > return
> > > > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I
> > didn't
> > > > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original
> > places and
> > > > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this
because
> > I took
> > > > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said
the
> > noise
> > > > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was
chasing
> > a
> > > > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it
> > wasn't this
> > > > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and
this
> > was a
> > > > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve
seal
> > from
> > > > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the
all
> > went
> > > > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find
> > compression
> > > > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the
guage).
> > This
> > > > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which
was
> > 110.
> > > > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> > mechanic
> > > > > read which was 150 psi.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll
go
> > and get
> > > > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind
doing
> > the
> > > > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be
sure
> > it's
> > > > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression
tester
> > > > > > comes....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a
leak.
> > > > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing
around
> > right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a
> > valve
> > > > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one
with
> > the
> > > > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push
rod
> > and
> > > > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my
> > valve
> > > > > seals
> > > > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect
condition.
> > When I
> > > > > did
> > > > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up
> > while I
> > > > > took
> > > > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each
valve
> > I
> > > > > also
> > > > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and
> > attached a
> > > > > long
> > > > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the
air
> > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then
move
> > the
> > > > > stem
> > > > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> > noticeable
> > > > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and
> > which is
> > > > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had
play.
> > The
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the
work
> > I had
> > > > > done
> > > > > > > on this valve.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the
leak
> > down
> > > > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I
heard
> > only
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1
with
> > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have
been
> > released
> > > > > so
> > > > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> > hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the
leak
> > down
> > > > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this
situation if
> > #2
> > > > > leak
> > > > > > > down is bad.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders
are
> > good,
> > > > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it.
A
> > lot of
> > > > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the
wall on
> > time.
> > > > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and
find
> > some
> > > > > worse
> > > > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment
or
> > might
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and
go
> > to
> > > > > option
> > > > > > > #2.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine,
clean
> > it,
> > > > > bore
> > > > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed.
> > Turn
> > > > > around
> > > > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put
it
> > in.
> > > > > They
> > > > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7
year
> > 70,000
> > > > > mile
> > > > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000
mile
> > > > > warranty.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of
> > rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower
> > scope of
> > > > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever
dealt
> > with
> > > > > RJE
> > > > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above
are
> > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 01:48 PM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
past the rings.
How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find.
> If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about
> the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > compression is strange.
> >
> > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > throttle wide open.
> >
> > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > it back together and enjoy!
> >
> > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > the compression again.
> >
> > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> >
> > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > cylinders.
> >
> > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> >
> > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > 500 miles.
> >
> > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > was told it was from valve float.)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > >
> > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
> in
> > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
> return
> > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
> and
> > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
> took
> > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
> noise
> > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > >
> > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
> this
> > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
> was a
> > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
> from
> > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
> went
> > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > >
> > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
> This
> > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
> 110.
> > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> mechanic
> > > read which was 150 psi.
> > >
> > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
> get
> > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
> it's
> > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > comes....
> > > >
> > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
> right?
> > > >
> > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > >
> > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > >
> > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
> and
> > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > >
> > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > > seals
> > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
> When I
> > > did
> > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
> I
> > > took
> > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > > also
> > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
> a
> > > long
> > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
> in
> > > the
> > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
> the
> > > stem
> > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> noticeable
> > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
> is
> > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
> The
> > > one
> > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
> had
> > > done
> > > > > on this valve.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
> down
> > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
> only
> > > a
> > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
> the
> > > same
> > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
> released
> > > so
> > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
> down
> > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > >
> > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
> #2
> > > leak
> > > > > down is bad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
> good,
> > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
> lot of
> > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
> time.
> > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
> some
> > > worse
> > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
> might
> > > get
> > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > > option
> > > > > #2.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
> it,
> > > bore
> > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > > around
> > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > > They
> > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
> 70,000
> > > mile
> > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > >
> > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > warranty.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
> of
> > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
> with
> > > RJE
> > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
past the rings.
How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find.
> If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about
> the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > compression is strange.
> >
> > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > throttle wide open.
> >
> > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > it back together and enjoy!
> >
> > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > the compression again.
> >
> > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> >
> > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > cylinders.
> >
> > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> >
> > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > 500 miles.
> >
> > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > was told it was from valve float.)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > >
> > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
> in
> > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
> return
> > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
> and
> > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
> took
> > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
> noise
> > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > >
> > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
> this
> > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
> was a
> > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
> from
> > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
> went
> > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > >
> > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
> This
> > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
> 110.
> > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> mechanic
> > > read which was 150 psi.
> > >
> > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
> get
> > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
> it's
> > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > comes....
> > > >
> > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
> right?
> > > >
> > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > >
> > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > >
> > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
> and
> > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > >
> > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > > seals
> > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
> When I
> > > did
> > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
> I
> > > took
> > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > > also
> > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
> a
> > > long
> > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
> in
> > > the
> > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
> the
> > > stem
> > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> noticeable
> > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
> is
> > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
> The
> > > one
> > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
> had
> > > done
> > > > > on this valve.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
> down
> > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
> only
> > > a
> > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
> the
> > > same
> > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
> released
> > > so
> > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
> down
> > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > >
> > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
> #2
> > > leak
> > > > > down is bad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
> good,
> > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
> lot of
> > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
> time.
> > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
> some
> > > worse
> > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
> might
> > > get
> > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > > option
> > > > > #2.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
> it,
> > > bore
> > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > > around
> > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > > They
> > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
> 70,000
> > > mile
> > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > >
> > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > warranty.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
> of
> > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
> with
> > > RJE
> > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 01:48 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
past the rings.
How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find.
> If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about
> the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > compression is strange.
> >
> > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > throttle wide open.
> >
> > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > it back together and enjoy!
> >
> > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > the compression again.
> >
> > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> >
> > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > cylinders.
> >
> > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> >
> > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > 500 miles.
> >
> > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > was told it was from valve float.)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > >
> > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
> in
> > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
> return
> > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
> and
> > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
> took
> > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
> noise
> > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > >
> > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
> this
> > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
> was a
> > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
> from
> > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
> went
> > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > >
> > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
> This
> > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
> 110.
> > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> mechanic
> > > read which was 150 psi.
> > >
> > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
> get
> > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
> it's
> > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > comes....
> > > >
> > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
> right?
> > > >
> > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > >
> > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > >
> > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
> and
> > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > >
> > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > > seals
> > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
> When I
> > > did
> > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
> I
> > > took
> > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > > also
> > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
> a
> > > long
> > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
> in
> > > the
> > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
> the
> > > stem
> > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> noticeable
> > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
> is
> > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
> The
> > > one
> > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
> had
> > > done
> > > > > on this valve.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
> down
> > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
> only
> > > a
> > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
> the
> > > same
> > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
> released
> > > so
> > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
> down
> > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > >
> > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
> #2
> > > leak
> > > > > down is bad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
> good,
> > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
> lot of
> > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
> time.
> > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
> some
> > > worse
> > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
> might
> > > get
> > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > > option
> > > > > #2.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
> it,
> > > bore
> > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > > around
> > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > > They
> > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
> 70,000
> > > mile
> > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > >
> > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > warranty.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
> of
> > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
> with
> > > RJE
> > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
past the rings.
How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find.
> If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about
> the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > compression is strange.
> >
> > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > throttle wide open.
> >
> > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > it back together and enjoy!
> >
> > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > the compression again.
> >
> > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> >
> > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > cylinders.
> >
> > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> >
> > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > 500 miles.
> >
> > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > was told it was from valve float.)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > >
> > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
> in
> > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
> return
> > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
> and
> > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
> took
> > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
> noise
> > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > >
> > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
> this
> > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
> was a
> > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
> from
> > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
> went
> > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > >
> > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
> This
> > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
> 110.
> > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> mechanic
> > > read which was 150 psi.
> > >
> > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
> get
> > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
> it's
> > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > comes....
> > > >
> > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
> right?
> > > >
> > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > >
> > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > >
> > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
> and
> > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > >
> > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > > seals
> > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
> When I
> > > did
> > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
> I
> > > took
> > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > > also
> > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
> a
> > > long
> > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
> in
> > > the
> > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
> the
> > > stem
> > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> noticeable
> > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
> is
> > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
> The
> > > one
> > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
> had
> > > done
> > > > > on this valve.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
> down
> > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
> only
> > > a
> > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
> the
> > > same
> > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
> released
> > > so
> > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
> down
> > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > >
> > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
> #2
> > > leak
> > > > > down is bad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
> good,
> > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
> lot of
> > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
> time.
> > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
> some
> > > worse
> > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
> might
> > > get
> > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > > option
> > > > > #2.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
> it,
> > > bore
> > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > > around
> > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > > They
> > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
> 70,000
> > > mile
> > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > >
> > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > warranty.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
> of
> > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
> with
> > > RJE
> > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 01:48 PM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
I am thinking it's too much gas in the cylinder causing the no spark or
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
past the rings.
How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find.
> If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about
> the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > compression is strange.
> >
> > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > throttle wide open.
> >
> > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > it back together and enjoy!
> >
> > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > the compression again.
> >
> > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> >
> > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > cylinders.
> >
> > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> >
> > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > 500 miles.
> >
> > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > was told it was from valve float.)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > >
> > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
> in
> > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
> return
> > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
> and
> > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
> took
> > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
> noise
> > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > >
> > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
> this
> > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
> was a
> > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
> from
> > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
> went
> > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > >
> > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
> This
> > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
> 110.
> > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> mechanic
> > > read which was 150 psi.
> > >
> > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
> get
> > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
> it's
> > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > comes....
> > > >
> > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
> right?
> > > >
> > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > >
> > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > >
> > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
> and
> > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > >
> > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > > seals
> > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
> When I
> > > did
> > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
> I
> > > took
> > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > > also
> > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
> a
> > > long
> > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
> in
> > > the
> > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
> the
> > > stem
> > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> noticeable
> > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
> is
> > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
> The
> > > one
> > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
> had
> > > done
> > > > > on this valve.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
> down
> > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
> only
> > > a
> > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
> the
> > > same
> > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
> released
> > > so
> > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
> down
> > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > >
> > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
> #2
> > > leak
> > > > > down is bad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
> good,
> > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
> lot of
> > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
> time.
> > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
> some
> > > worse
> > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
> might
> > > get
> > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > > option
> > > > > #2.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
> it,
> > > bore
> > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > > around
> > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > > They
> > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
> 70,000
> > > mile
> > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > >
> > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > warranty.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
> of
> > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
> with
> > > RJE
> > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
no gas, either causing the piston to flop around allowing oil to blow up
past the rings.
How does the oil on the dipstick smell?
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> I'm going to get a compression tester tomorrow and let you know what I find.
> If I get good compression all the way across then this won't tell me about
> the oil getting in the cylinder. Does that mean it's definitely the head?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40265D2B.4707E020@sympatico.ca...
> > A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> > pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> > compression is strange.
> >
> > First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> > throttle wide open.
> >
> > You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> > it back together and enjoy!
> >
> > If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> > tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> > the compression again.
> >
> > If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> > and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> > have issues with a valve or head gasket.
> >
> > On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> > the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> > cylinders.
> >
> > If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> > the head gasket between the two cylinders.
> >
> > They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> > Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> > am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> > miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> > 500 miles.
> >
> > Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> > around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> > maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> > have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> > was told it was from valve float.)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> > >
> > > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However,
> in
> > > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't
> return
> > > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places
> and
> > > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I
> took
> > > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the
> noise
> > > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> > >
> > > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't
> this
> > > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this
> was a
> > > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal
> from
> > > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all
> went
> > > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> > >
> > > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage).
> This
> > > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was
> 110.
> > > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the
> mechanic
> > > read which was 150 psi.
> > >
> > > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and
> get
> > > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure
> it's
> > > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > > comes....
> > > >
> > > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around
> right?
> > > >
> > > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > > >
> > > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > > >
> > > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod
> and
> > > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > > >
> > > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > > seals
> > > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition.
> When I
> > > did
> > > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while
> I
> > > took
> > > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > > also
> > > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached
> a
> > > long
> > > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air
> in
> > > the
> > > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move
> the
> > > stem
> > > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some
> noticeable
> > > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which
> is
> > > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play.
> The
> > > one
> > > > > to the rear did not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I
> had
> > > done
> > > > > on this valve.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak
> down
> > > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard
> only
> > > a
> > > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with
> the
> > > same
> > > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been
> released
> > > so
> > > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long
> hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak
> down
> > > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > > >
> > > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if
> #2
> > > leak
> > > > > down is bad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are
> good,
> > > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A
> lot of
> > > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on
> time.
> > > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find
> some
> > > worse
> > > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or
> might
> > > get
> > > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > > option
> > > > > #2.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean
> it,
> > > bore
> > > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > > around
> > > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > > >
> > > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > > They
> > > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year
> 70,000
> > > mile
> > > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > > >
> > > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > > warranty.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope
> of
> > > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt
> with
> > > RJE
> > > > > or Jasper?
> > > > >
> > > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > > welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill