Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
02-08-2004, 11:00 AM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
compression is strange.
First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
throttle wide open.
You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
it back together and enjoy!
If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
the compression again.
If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
have issues with a valve or head gasket.
On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
cylinders.
If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
the head gasket between the two cylinders.
They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
500 miles.
Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
was told it was from valve float.)
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
>
> 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in
> retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return
> the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and
> I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took
> the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise
> was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
>
> 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this
> valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a
> little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from
> going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went
> on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
>
> 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This
> gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110.
> I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic
> read which was 150 psi.
>
> So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get
> a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's
> the head that's the problem and not the rings?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > comes....
> >
> > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
> >
> > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> >
> > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > job. My guess still seems right...
> >
> > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> >
> > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> >
> > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> seals
> > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I
> did
> > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I
> took
> > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> also
> > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a
> long
> > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in
> the
> > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the
> stem
> > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable
> > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is
> > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The
> one
> > > to the rear did not.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had
> done
> > > on this valve.
> > >
> > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down
> > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only
> a
> > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the
> same
> > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released
> so
> > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down
> > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > >
> > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2
> leak
> > > down is bad.
> > >
> > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good,
> > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of
> > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time.
> > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some
> worse
> > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might
> get
> > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> option
> > > #2.
> > >
> > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it,
> bore
> > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> around
> > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > >
> > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> They
> > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000
> mile
> > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > >
> > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> warranty.
> > >
> > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > >
> > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of
> > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with
> RJE
> > > or Jasper?
> > >
> > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> welcome.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
compression is strange.
First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
throttle wide open.
You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
it back together and enjoy!
If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
the compression again.
If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
have issues with a valve or head gasket.
On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
cylinders.
If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
the head gasket between the two cylinders.
They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
500 miles.
Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
was told it was from valve float.)
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
>
> 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in
> retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return
> the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and
> I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took
> the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise
> was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
>
> 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this
> valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a
> little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from
> going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went
> on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
>
> 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This
> gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110.
> I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic
> read which was 150 psi.
>
> So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get
> a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's
> the head that's the problem and not the rings?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > comes....
> >
> > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
> >
> > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> >
> > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > job. My guess still seems right...
> >
> > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> >
> > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> >
> > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> seals
> > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I
> did
> > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I
> took
> > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> also
> > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a
> long
> > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in
> the
> > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the
> stem
> > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable
> > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is
> > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The
> one
> > > to the rear did not.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had
> done
> > > on this valve.
> > >
> > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down
> > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only
> a
> > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the
> same
> > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released
> so
> > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down
> > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > >
> > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2
> leak
> > > down is bad.
> > >
> > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good,
> > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of
> > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time.
> > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some
> worse
> > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might
> get
> > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> option
> > > #2.
> > >
> > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it,
> bore
> > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> around
> > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > >
> > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> They
> > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000
> mile
> > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > >
> > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> warranty.
> > >
> > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > >
> > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of
> > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with
> RJE
> > > or Jasper?
> > >
> > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> welcome.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
02-08-2004, 11:00 AM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
compression is strange.
First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
throttle wide open.
You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
it back together and enjoy!
If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
the compression again.
If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
have issues with a valve or head gasket.
On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
cylinders.
If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
the head gasket between the two cylinders.
They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
500 miles.
Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
was told it was from valve float.)
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
>
> 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in
> retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return
> the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and
> I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took
> the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise
> was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
>
> 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this
> valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a
> little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from
> going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went
> on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
>
> 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This
> gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110.
> I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic
> read which was 150 psi.
>
> So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get
> a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's
> the head that's the problem and not the rings?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > comes....
> >
> > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
> >
> > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> >
> > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > job. My guess still seems right...
> >
> > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> >
> > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> >
> > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> seals
> > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I
> did
> > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I
> took
> > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> also
> > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a
> long
> > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in
> the
> > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the
> stem
> > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable
> > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is
> > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The
> one
> > > to the rear did not.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had
> done
> > > on this valve.
> > >
> > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down
> > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only
> a
> > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the
> same
> > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released
> so
> > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down
> > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > >
> > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2
> leak
> > > down is bad.
> > >
> > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good,
> > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of
> > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time.
> > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some
> worse
> > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might
> get
> > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> option
> > > #2.
> > >
> > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it,
> bore
> > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> around
> > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > >
> > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> They
> > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000
> mile
> > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > >
> > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> warranty.
> > >
> > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > >
> > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of
> > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with
> RJE
> > > or Jasper?
> > >
> > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> welcome.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
compression is strange.
First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
throttle wide open.
You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
it back together and enjoy!
If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
the compression again.
If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
have issues with a valve or head gasket.
On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
cylinders.
If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
the head gasket between the two cylinders.
They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
500 miles.
Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
was told it was from valve float.)
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
>
> 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in
> retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return
> the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and
> I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took
> the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise
> was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
>
> 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this
> valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a
> little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from
> going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went
> on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
>
> 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This
> gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110.
> I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic
> read which was 150 psi.
>
> So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get
> a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's
> the head that's the problem and not the rings?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > comes....
> >
> > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
> >
> > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> >
> > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > job. My guess still seems right...
> >
> > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> >
> > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> >
> > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> seals
> > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I
> did
> > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I
> took
> > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> also
> > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a
> long
> > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in
> the
> > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the
> stem
> > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable
> > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is
> > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The
> one
> > > to the rear did not.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had
> done
> > > on this valve.
> > >
> > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down
> > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only
> a
> > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the
> same
> > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released
> so
> > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down
> > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > >
> > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2
> leak
> > > down is bad.
> > >
> > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good,
> > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of
> > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time.
> > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some
> worse
> > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might
> get
> > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> option
> > > #2.
> > >
> > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it,
> bore
> > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> around
> > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > >
> > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> They
> > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000
> mile
> > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > >
> > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> warranty.
> > >
> > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > >
> > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of
> > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with
> RJE
> > > or Jasper?
> > >
> > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> welcome.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
02-08-2004, 11:00 AM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
compression is strange.
First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
throttle wide open.
You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
it back together and enjoy!
If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
the compression again.
If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
have issues with a valve or head gasket.
On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
cylinders.
If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
the head gasket between the two cylinders.
They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
500 miles.
Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
was told it was from valve float.)
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
>
> 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in
> retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return
> the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and
> I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took
> the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise
> was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
>
> 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this
> valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a
> little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from
> going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went
> on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
>
> 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This
> gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110.
> I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic
> read which was 150 psi.
>
> So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get
> a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's
> the head that's the problem and not the rings?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > comes....
> >
> > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
> >
> > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> >
> > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > job. My guess still seems right...
> >
> > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> >
> > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> >
> > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> seals
> > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I
> did
> > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I
> took
> > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> also
> > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a
> long
> > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in
> the
> > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the
> stem
> > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable
> > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is
> > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The
> one
> > > to the rear did not.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had
> done
> > > on this valve.
> > >
> > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down
> > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only
> a
> > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the
> same
> > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released
> so
> > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down
> > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > >
> > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2
> leak
> > > down is bad.
> > >
> > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good,
> > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of
> > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time.
> > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some
> worse
> > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might
> get
> > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> option
> > > #2.
> > >
> > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it,
> bore
> > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> around
> > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > >
> > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> They
> > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000
> mile
> > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > >
> > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> warranty.
> > >
> > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > >
> > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of
> > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with
> RJE
> > > or Jasper?
> > >
> > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> welcome.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
compression is strange.
First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
throttle wide open.
You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
it back together and enjoy!
If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
the compression again.
If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
have issues with a valve or head gasket.
On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
cylinders.
If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
the head gasket between the two cylinders.
They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
500 miles.
Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
was told it was from valve float.)
Mike
William Oliveri wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
>
> 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in
> retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return
> the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and
> I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took
> the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise
> was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
>
> 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this
> valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a
> little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from
> going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went
> on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
>
> 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This
> gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110.
> I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic
> read which was 150 psi.
>
> So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get
> a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's
> the head that's the problem and not the rings?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > comes....
> >
> > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
> >
> > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> >
> > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > job. My guess still seems right...
> >
> > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> >
> > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> >
> > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > William Oliveri wrote:
> > >
> > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> seals
> > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I
> did
> > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I
> took
> > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> also
> > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a
> long
> > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in
> the
> > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the
> stem
> > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable
> > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is
> > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The
> one
> > > to the rear did not.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had
> done
> > > on this valve.
> > >
> > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down
> > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only
> a
> > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the
> same
> > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released
> so
> > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down
> > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > >
> > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2
> leak
> > > down is bad.
> > >
> > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good,
> > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of
> > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time.
> > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some
> worse
> > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might
> get
> > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> option
> > > #2.
> > >
> > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it,
> bore
> > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> around
> > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > >
> > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> They
> > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000
> mile
> > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > >
> > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> warranty.
> > >
> > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > >
> > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of
> > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with
> RJE
> > > or Jasper?
> > >
> > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> welcome.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bill
02-08-2004, 11:03 AM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is
gas related in #2 cylinder?
Mike
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
gas related in #2 cylinder?
Mike
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 11:03 AM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is
gas related in #2 cylinder?
Mike
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
gas related in #2 cylinder?
Mike
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 11:03 AM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Oh, have you swapped fuel injectors yet to confirm the lack of spark is
gas related in #2 cylinder?
Mike
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
gas related in #2 cylinder?
Mike
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> A dry and wet compression test will let you know the shape of the
> pistons and rings. If they are ok, then the head is the issue 'if' the
> compression is strange.
>
> First you remove all the plugs and the coil wire and then hold/tie the
> throttle wide open.
>
> You then take the compression test 'dry'. If they are all the same put
> it back together and enjoy!
>
> If you have one cylinder that is low on compression, you then put a
> tablespoon of any kind of engine oil down that spark plug hole and test
> the compression again.
>
> If the compression comes up a whole lot, you have issues with the piston
> and/or rings. If the compression only burps up a very little, then you
> have issues with a valve or head gasket.
>
> On a 'good' engine, the oil in the cylinder will up the compression of
> the rings by 2-5 psi or so, not much more and it will do it on all
> cylinders.
>
> If you have two side by side low and the oil doesn't raise them, suspect
> the head gasket between the two cylinders.
>
> They 'all' burn some oil and they all make strange noises now and then.
> Mine will use a liter between oil changes if I am driving it easy. If I
> am off roading in 4 low hard, I can use a liter in less than a thousand
> miles or two tanks of gas if sand pit wall running which is more like
> 500 miles.
>
> Having the head reworked around here in Canada is less than or right
> around $150.00. There are even heavier or double springs available (GM
> maybe?) for the valves so your red line comes up a couple thousand rpm I
> have been told. (the red line 'wall' on that engine is 4500 rpm and I
> was told it was from valve float.)
>
> Mike
>
> William Oliveri wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Mike for bringing humor to my otherwise difficult situation.
> >
> > 1. Yes, I'm the one at idle who had what I thought was ping. However, in
> > retrospect, I remember when I put the aluminum valve cover on it requred
> > studless rocker arm bridges which I changed out. I didn't take out the
> > rocker arm rods so I know they were in the correct place but I didn't return
> > the rocker arms back to the original place unless I got lucky. I didn't
> > know about the importance of returning used parts to the original places and
> > I'm suspecting this was causinging the noise. I fall to this because I took
> > the jeep to 2 shops and they could not hear a ping. One shop said the noise
> > was coming from the valve train and the other shop said I was chasing a
> > ghost (they did dyno testing and rebuilding there).
> >
> > 2. The valve with the "mushroomed top" was not mushroomed and it wasn't this
> > valve. There were all together about 6 valves which had this and this was a
> > little rim/lip big enough to cause a barrier to prevent the valve seal from
> > going on. A little light filing and that took care of that, the all went
> > on. Again, this was not on #2 cylinder.
> >
> > 3. I did a compression test with my cheezy flea market find compression
> > tester (works fine but doesn't keep the air pumped into the guage). This
> > gave me a reading of 100 psi across all cylinders except #2 which was 110.
> > I think when I get a good tester it will read closer to what the mechanic
> > read which was 150 psi.
> >
> > So, you think the head can be reworked and I'm good to go? I'll go and get
> > a compression tester tomorrow (today tied up) and I don't mind doing the
> > work to replace the head if I'm sure it's the head. How can I be sure it's
> > the head that's the problem and not the rings?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:40264D3C.785FEF33@sympatico.ca...
> > > Put down the tools and run away fast until the compression tester
> > > comes....
> > >
> > > A leak down test tells you crap. It just tells you you have a leak.
> > > Umm yup if you didn't have a leak you wouldn't be screwing around right?
> > >
> > > A dry and if needed wet compression test tells all.
> > >
> > > I mentioned a long time ago that you sure sound like you need a valve
> > > job. My guess still seems right...
> > >
> > > I mean for sure you have one dead valve. If that is the one with the
> > > mushroomed top, then you have a dead rocker arm and a dead push rod and
> > > likely a dead hydraulic lifer that caused all the damage.
> > >
> > > That was you with the 'timing' ping at idle wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I mean a valve job and a couple parts are pretty cheap.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > William Oliveri wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While waiting for my leak down tester to arrive I rechecked my valve
> > seals
> > > > on #2 and the were installed correctly and in perfect condition. When I
> > did
> > > > this I used the air compressor as before to hold the valve up while I
> > took
> > > > the keepers and spring off and inspected the seal. For each valve I
> > also
> > > > placed a strip of rubber matting around the valve stem and attached a
> > long
> > > > nosed vice grip firmly to the valve stem. Then I released the air in
> > the
> > > > cylinder and allow the valve to drop down a bit. I can then move the
> > stem
> > > > back and forth and feel for play. On one of them I felt some noticeable
> > > > play and the other I didn't. I don't know which is intake and which is
> > > > exhaust but the one closer to the front on the 4.2L head had play. The
> > one
> > > > to the rear did not.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I put it back together seeing nothing wrong with the work I had
> > done
> > > > on this valve.
> > > >
> > > > However, I did notice one thing which I will confirm when the leak down
> > > > tester arrives and that is when I released the air from #2 I heard only
> > a
> > > > small release of built up air (a slight psst ). I checked #1 with the
> > same
> > > > method (apply air to a cylinder where the rocker arms have been released
> > so
> > > > the valves are closed) and I got a very long hwooooooooosssshhhhhssssst.
> > > > Much different response. I'm going to confirm this with the leak down
> > > > tester but I'm getting that sinking feeling now.
> > > >
> > > > In anticipation I have several options to remedy this situation if #2
> > leak
> > > > down is bad.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1. If the leak down tests on the remaining 5 cylinders are good,
> > > > replace the rings on the problem cylinder and be done with it. A lot of
> > > > work for just one cylinder but I'm becoming up against the wall on time.
> > > > The only problem with this scenario is if I get in there and find some
> > worse
> > > > problem. Since I can't pull the engine (no space or equipment or might
> > get
> > > > kicked out of my appt) I'll have to end up having it towed and go to
> > option
> > > > #2.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2. There's a place in town that will put the engine, clean it,
> > bore
> > > > it once over, rebuild it and put it back in for 2k installed. Turn
> > around
> > > > is a week. Warranty is 12 months.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3. Buy a remanufactured engine from
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/ and find a place to put it in.
> > They
> > > > charge a little over 1100 for a replacement engine with a 7 year 70,000
> > mile
> > > > warranty. Sounds pretty good to me compared to JasperEngines.
> > > >
> > > > They charge double for the same engine with a 3 year 36,000 mile
> > warranty.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/
> > > > http://www.jasperengines.com/
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why Jasper is double the price of rebuilt-jeep-engines.
> > > > Perhaps RJE does only jeep engines and because of the narrower scope of
> > > > product line they can offer a better price. Has anyone ever dealt with
> > RJE
> > > > or Jasper?
> > > >
> > > > Any advice or comments on this or other I have written above are
> > welcome.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
02-08-2004, 11:48 AM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Sounds like valves or head gasket, not rings. Your compression check will tell
you.
If it is just the head, either get it redone with new valves, etc. or go with a
freshly rebuilt 4.0 head. Orange Engine is a quality rebuilder. Locations in
Orange and San Juan Capistrano.
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
you.
If it is just the head, either get it redone with new valves, etc. or go with a
freshly rebuilt 4.0 head. Orange Engine is a quality rebuilder. Locations in
Orange and San Juan Capistrano.
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
02-08-2004, 11:48 AM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Sounds like valves or head gasket, not rings. Your compression check will tell
you.
If it is just the head, either get it redone with new valves, etc. or go with a
freshly rebuilt 4.0 head. Orange Engine is a quality rebuilder. Locations in
Orange and San Juan Capistrano.
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
you.
If it is just the head, either get it redone with new valves, etc. or go with a
freshly rebuilt 4.0 head. Orange Engine is a quality rebuilder. Locations in
Orange and San Juan Capistrano.
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
02-08-2004, 11:48 AM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Sounds like valves or head gasket, not rings. Your compression check will tell
you.
If it is just the head, either get it redone with new valves, etc. or go with a
freshly rebuilt 4.0 head. Orange Engine is a quality rebuilder. Locations in
Orange and San Juan Capistrano.
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
you.
If it is just the head, either get it redone with new valves, etc. or go with a
freshly rebuilt 4.0 head. Orange Engine is a quality rebuilder. Locations in
Orange and San Juan Capistrano.
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
02-08-2004, 01:03 PM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Difference between Jasper engines and rebuilt-jeep-engines
Robert,
Is this the place you're talking about?
Orange Engine Rebuilding
Address: 1911 E Ball Rd, Anaheim, CA 92805
Phone: (714) 635-4030
If not, can you pass me the number and address?
Thanks,
Bill
"Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:20040208114851.20582.00001059@mb-m21.aol.com...
> Sounds like valves or head gasket, not rings. Your compression check will
tell
> you.
>
> If it is just the head, either get it redone with new valves, etc. or go
with a
> freshly rebuilt 4.0 head. Orange Engine is a quality rebuilder.
Locations in
> Orange and San Juan Capistrano.
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com
Is this the place you're talking about?
Orange Engine Rebuilding
Address: 1911 E Ball Rd, Anaheim, CA 92805
Phone: (714) 635-4030
If not, can you pass me the number and address?
Thanks,
Bill
"Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:20040208114851.20582.00001059@mb-m21.aol.com...
> Sounds like valves or head gasket, not rings. Your compression check will
tell
> you.
>
> If it is just the head, either get it redone with new valves, etc. or go
with a
> freshly rebuilt 4.0 head. Orange Engine is a quality rebuilder.
Locations in
> Orange and San Juan Capistrano.
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com