Dana 30 gear noise
07-13-2005, 10:43 PM
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana 30 gear noise
Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
yoke.
Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
/Peter
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> for pinion test.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> >
> > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> >
> > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
with
> > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
tighter.
> > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
lash
> > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
stronger
> > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
to
> > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> >
> > /Peter
> >
> > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:42D5A772.6837BD56@***.net...
> > > Hi Peter,
> > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
sleeve
> > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
the
> > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > couple of
> > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > >
> > > > /Peter
turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
yoke.
Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
/Peter
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> for pinion test.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> >
> > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> >
> > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
with
> > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
tighter.
> > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
lash
> > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
stronger
> > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
to
> > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> >
> > /Peter
> >
> > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:42D5A772.6837BD56@***.net...
> > > Hi Peter,
> > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
sleeve
> > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
the
> > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > couple of
> > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > >
> > > > /Peter
07-14-2005, 08:55 AM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana 30 gear noise
The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9 of
the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential bearing
preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07 and 4.88).
BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to replace
the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more preload which
suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
--
jeff
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Without axles? Sheesh, then it's really too loose since it's taking less
> than thirty to spin the whole shebang, wheels and tires included.
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
>
>> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
>>yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
>>bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
>>for pinion test.
Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9 of
the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential bearing
preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07 and 4.88).
BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to replace
the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more preload which
suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
--
jeff
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Without axles? Sheesh, then it's really too loose since it's taking less
> than thirty to spin the whole shebang, wheels and tires included.
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
>
>> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
>>yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
>>bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
>>for pinion test.
07-14-2005, 08:55 AM
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana 30 gear noise
The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9 of
the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential bearing
preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07 and 4.88).
BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to replace
the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more preload which
suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
--
jeff
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Without axles? Sheesh, then it's really too loose since it's taking less
> than thirty to spin the whole shebang, wheels and tires included.
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
>
>> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
>>yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
>>bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
>>for pinion test.
Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9 of
the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential bearing
preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07 and 4.88).
BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to replace
the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more preload which
suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
--
jeff
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Without axles? Sheesh, then it's really too loose since it's taking less
> than thirty to spin the whole shebang, wheels and tires included.
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
>
>> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
>>yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
>>bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
>>for pinion test.
07-14-2005, 08:55 AM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana 30 gear noise
The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9 of
the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential bearing
preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07 and 4.88).
BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to replace
the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more preload which
suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
--
jeff
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Without axles? Sheesh, then it's really too loose since it's taking less
> than thirty to spin the whole shebang, wheels and tires included.
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
>
>> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
>>yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
>>bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
>>for pinion test.
Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9 of
the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential bearing
preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07 and 4.88).
BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to replace
the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more preload which
suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
--
jeff
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Without axles? Sheesh, then it's really too loose since it's taking less
> than thirty to spin the whole shebang, wheels and tires included.
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
>
>> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
>>yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
>>bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
>>for pinion test.
07-14-2005, 08:55 AM
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana 30 gear noise
The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9 of
the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential bearing
preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07 and 4.88).
BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to replace
the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more preload which
suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
--
jeff
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Without axles? Sheesh, then it's really too loose since it's taking less
> than thirty to spin the whole shebang, wheels and tires included.
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
>
>> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
>>yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
>>bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
>>for pinion test.
Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9 of
the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential bearing
preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07 and 4.88).
BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to replace
the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more preload which
suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
--
jeff
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Without axles? Sheesh, then it's really too loose since it's taking less
> than thirty to spin the whole shebang, wheels and tires included.
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
>
>> When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
>>yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
>>bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
>>for pinion test.
07-14-2005, 09:23 AM
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana 30 gear noise
Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if you don't
have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up with a
couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to hold it
steady while tightening.
They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other kinds
of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do, you
fast have a dead box.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
> > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> > for pinion test.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> > >
> > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
> with
> > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
> tighter.
> > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
> lash
> > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
> stronger
> > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
> to
> > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:42D5A772.6837BD56@***.net...
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
> sleeve
> > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
> the
> > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > > couple of
> > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up with a
couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to hold it
steady while tightening.
They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other kinds
of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do, you
fast have a dead box.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
> > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> > for pinion test.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> > >
> > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
> with
> > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
> tighter.
> > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
> lash
> > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
> stronger
> > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
> to
> > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:42D5A772.6837BD56@***.net...
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
> sleeve
> > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
> the
> > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > > couple of
> > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
07-14-2005, 09:23 AM
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana 30 gear noise
Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if you don't
have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up with a
couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to hold it
steady while tightening.
They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other kinds
of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do, you
fast have a dead box.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
> > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> > for pinion test.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> > >
> > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
> with
> > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
> tighter.
> > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
> lash
> > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
> stronger
> > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
> to
> > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:42D5A772.6837BD56@***.net...
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
> sleeve
> > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
> the
> > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > > couple of
> > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up with a
couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to hold it
steady while tightening.
They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other kinds
of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do, you
fast have a dead box.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
> > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> > for pinion test.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> > >
> > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
> with
> > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
> tighter.
> > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
> lash
> > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
> stronger
> > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
> to
> > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:42D5A772.6837BD56@***.net...
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
> sleeve
> > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
> the
> > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > > couple of
> > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
07-14-2005, 09:23 AM
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana 30 gear noise
Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if you don't
have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up with a
couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to hold it
steady while tightening.
They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other kinds
of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do, you
fast have a dead box.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
> > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> > for pinion test.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> > >
> > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
> with
> > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
> tighter.
> > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
> lash
> > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
> stronger
> > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
> to
> > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:42D5A772.6837BD56@***.net...
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
> sleeve
> > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
> the
> > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > > couple of
> > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up with a
couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to hold it
steady while tightening.
They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other kinds
of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do, you
fast have a dead box.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
> > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> > for pinion test.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> > >
> > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
> with
> > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
> tighter.
> > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
> lash
> > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
> stronger
> > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
> to
> > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:42D5A772.6837BD56@***.net...
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
> sleeve
> > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
> the
> > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > > couple of
> > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
07-14-2005, 09:23 AM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana 30 gear noise
Unfortunately Peter, that is the only way to get it right if you don't
have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up with a
couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to hold it
steady while tightening.
They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other kinds
of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do, you
fast have a dead box.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
> > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> > for pinion test.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> > >
> > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
> with
> > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
> tighter.
> > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
> lash
> > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
> stronger
> > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
> to
> > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:42D5A772.6837BD56@***.net...
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
> sleeve
> > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
> the
> > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > > couple of
> > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
have that grabber tool. I would fast be making a bar of steel up with a
couple holes drilled into it so I could bolt it to the pinion to hold it
steady while tightening.
They are a real bitch to set up and for all the engine and other kinds
of work I do, I send out the diffs. Then a Jeep shop did mine wrong
even and it cost me a cool $500.00 to fix at a 'real' machine shop!
They are something like setting up a steering box, you cannot do the
preload with the steering wheel or drag link attached. If you do, you
fast have a dead box.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42D5B2A9.F685C79A@***.net...
> > When you remove the nut make sure it hasn't bottomed out as the
> > yoke should have easily slid up to where the old one was up against the
> > bearing to crush sleeve. That would be thirty inch pounds without axles,
> > for pinion test.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmm. I think I'll remove the nut and use some blue Loc-Tite then.
> > >
> > > All I did on the weekend was install the yoke and tighten the nut to 160
> > > lbs-ft. Just now I removed the drive shaft again and turned the pinion
> with
> > > my lbs-in torque wrench set to 30 with no clicks, so it needs to be
> tighter.
> > > I think there's even a bit of play in it, but its hard to tell what's
> lash
> > > and what play. Unfortunately now I have to wait for a helper with
> stronger
> > > legs than my six-year-old - he can't push on the brake pedal hard enough
> to
> > > stop the wheels from spinning when I turn the pinion nut.
> > >
> > > /Peter
> > >
> > > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > > news:42D5A772.6837BD56@***.net...
> > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > I never have, but then I've heard of many that have loosened. If
> > > > you have pinion bearing play the the yoke you have is not sliding up
> > > > hard against the bearing like the previous one did, as the crush
> sleeve
> > > > separating the bearings is naturally in-between them. Have you hit it
> > > > with an impact, and walked it on down? being careful in feeling with
> the
> > > > other hand for when it begins to snug up.
> > > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > > >
> > > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The pinion nut is some sort of stover nut, but it's been re-used a
> > > couple of
> > > > > times. Should I be putting some sort of Loc-Tite on it? Red or Blue?
> > > > >
> > > > > /Peter
07-14-2005, 10:36 AM
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Dana 30 gear noise
No, the manual does not account for axle bearing resistance, so axles
should be removed when measuring against the calculated spec.
Steve
http://xjeep.dyndns.org
jeff wrote:
> The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
> Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
> which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9 of
> the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
> calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
> bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential bearing
> preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07 and 4.88).
>
> BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to replace
> the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more preload which
> suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
>
should be removed when measuring against the calculated spec.
Steve
http://xjeep.dyndns.org
jeff wrote:
> The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
> Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
> which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9 of
> the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
> calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
> bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential bearing
> preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07 and 4.88).
>
> BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to replace
> the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more preload which
> suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
>