jeff

Steve: The axle outers in this case are a non-preloaded roller which can
safely be ignored, the outer seals may contribute an inch pound or two.
What would be a good adder for the spindles? They seem to turn quite
freely by hand. Pulling the disk brakes, spindles, and axles for each
check does not seem practical.

--
jeff


Steve wrote:
> No, the manual does not account for axle bearing resistance, so axles
> should be removed when measuring against the calculated spec.
>
> Steve
> http://xjeep.dyndns.org
>
> jeff wrote:
>
>> The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
>> Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
>> which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9
>> of the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
>> calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
>> bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential
>> bearing preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07
>> and 4.88).
>>
>> BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to
>> replace the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more
>> preload which suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
>>

Steve

It's easy. Pop the cover off and wedge a block of wood between the
carrier and the housing.

Steve
http://xjeep.dyndns.org

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter

Steve

It's easy. Pop the cover off and wedge a block of wood between the
carrier and the housing.

Steve
http://xjeep.dyndns.org

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter

Steve

It's easy. Pop the cover off and wedge a block of wood between the
carrier and the housing.

Steve
http://xjeep.dyndns.org

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter

Steve

It's easy. Pop the cover off and wedge a block of wood between the
carrier and the housing.

Steve
http://xjeep.dyndns.org

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> Wait a sec, with the axles out I've no way to stop the pinion gear from
> turning while I tighten the nut - I'm using the brakes for that. This is a
> ZJ with a CV yoke thats perfectly round, no flat spots for a wrench of any
> sort. Naturally, I don't have the fancy tool in the FSM for holding the
> yoke.
>
> Surely I can't be expected to remove the brake calipers, hubs, and axle
> shafts to measure pinion preload, then put them all back on to tighten the
> nut, then do it over again a bunch of times until it's right?
>
> /Peter

Mike Romain

Don't forget the u-joint load. Some u-joints can be stiff and add
radically to the rotation force. They have a different load according
to wear, fresh grease, just installed and tight, water inside and rusted
needles if sealed ones, etc....

Then there is the brake pad to rotor load. There are some inch lb
involved there and if the wheel isn't on, then the rotor is unlikely to
be square so will drag.

Gotta be some seals and bearings in the hub with load on them too, no?

You also can't take any of these loads from the book. Wear and water
are involved.

There is a reason for special tools......

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

jeff wrote:
>
> Steve: The axle outers in this case are a non-preloaded roller which can
> safely be ignored, the outer seals may contribute an inch pound or two.
> What would be a good adder for the spindles? They seem to turn quite
> freely by hand. Pulling the disk brakes, spindles, and axles for each
> check does not seem practical.
>
> --
> jeff
>
> Steve wrote:
> > No, the manual does not account for axle bearing resistance, so axles
> > should be removed when measuring against the calculated spec.
> >
> > Steve
> > http://xjeep.dyndns.org
> >
> > jeff wrote:
> >
> >> The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
> >> Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
> >> which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9
> >> of the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
> >> calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
> >> bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential
> >> bearing preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07
> >> and 4.88).
> >>
> >> BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to
> >> replace the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more
> >> preload which suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
> >>

Mike Romain

Don't forget the u-joint load. Some u-joints can be stiff and add
radically to the rotation force. They have a different load according
to wear, fresh grease, just installed and tight, water inside and rusted
needles if sealed ones, etc....

Then there is the brake pad to rotor load. There are some inch lb
involved there and if the wheel isn't on, then the rotor is unlikely to
be square so will drag.

Gotta be some seals and bearings in the hub with load on them too, no?

You also can't take any of these loads from the book. Wear and water
are involved.

There is a reason for special tools......

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

jeff wrote:
>
> Steve: The axle outers in this case are a non-preloaded roller which can
> safely be ignored, the outer seals may contribute an inch pound or two.
> What would be a good adder for the spindles? They seem to turn quite
> freely by hand. Pulling the disk brakes, spindles, and axles for each
> check does not seem practical.
>
> --
> jeff
>
> Steve wrote:
> > No, the manual does not account for axle bearing resistance, so axles
> > should be removed when measuring against the calculated spec.
> >
> > Steve
> > http://xjeep.dyndns.org
> >
> > jeff wrote:
> >
> >> The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
> >> Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
> >> which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9
> >> of the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
> >> calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
> >> bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential
> >> bearing preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07
> >> and 4.88).
> >>
> >> BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to
> >> replace the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more
> >> preload which suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
> >>

Mike Romain

Don't forget the u-joint load. Some u-joints can be stiff and add
radically to the rotation force. They have a different load according
to wear, fresh grease, just installed and tight, water inside and rusted
needles if sealed ones, etc....

Then there is the brake pad to rotor load. There are some inch lb
involved there and if the wheel isn't on, then the rotor is unlikely to
be square so will drag.

Gotta be some seals and bearings in the hub with load on them too, no?

You also can't take any of these loads from the book. Wear and water
are involved.

There is a reason for special tools......

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

jeff wrote:
>
> Steve: The axle outers in this case are a non-preloaded roller which can
> safely be ignored, the outer seals may contribute an inch pound or two.
> What would be a good adder for the spindles? They seem to turn quite
> freely by hand. Pulling the disk brakes, spindles, and axles for each
> check does not seem practical.
>
> --
> jeff
>
> Steve wrote:
> > No, the manual does not account for axle bearing resistance, so axles
> > should be removed when measuring against the calculated spec.
> >
> > Steve
> > http://xjeep.dyndns.org
> >
> > jeff wrote:
> >
> >> The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
> >> Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
> >> which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9
> >> of the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
> >> calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
> >> bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential
> >> bearing preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07
> >> and 4.88).
> >>
> >> BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to
> >> replace the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more
> >> preload which suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
> >>

Mike Romain

Don't forget the u-joint load. Some u-joints can be stiff and add
radically to the rotation force. They have a different load according
to wear, fresh grease, just installed and tight, water inside and rusted
needles if sealed ones, etc....

Then there is the brake pad to rotor load. There are some inch lb
involved there and if the wheel isn't on, then the rotor is unlikely to
be square so will drag.

Gotta be some seals and bearings in the hub with load on them too, no?

You also can't take any of these loads from the book. Wear and water
are involved.

There is a reason for special tools......

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

jeff wrote:
>
> Steve: The axle outers in this case are a non-preloaded roller which can
> safely be ignored, the outer seals may contribute an inch pound or two.
> What would be a good adder for the spindles? They seem to turn quite
> freely by hand. Pulling the disk brakes, spindles, and axles for each
> check does not seem practical.
>
> --
> jeff
>
> Steve wrote:
> > No, the manual does not account for axle bearing resistance, so axles
> > should be removed when measuring against the calculated spec.
> >
> > Steve
> > http://xjeep.dyndns.org
> >
> > jeff wrote:
> >
> >> The 30-in-lb is *Not* without axles. Steve gave you a link to the Dana
> >> Light Axle Service Manual, ( http://xjeep.dyndns.org/danaspicer.pdf )
> >> which is what I also used when I said to go between 24 and 45. Page 9
> >> of the manual gives the specs, and Page 10 gives an example of how to
> >> calculate it. So you start off with between 15-30 for the pinion
> >> bearing, add 3 more for the seal, and then 6-12 for differential
> >> bearing preload (This last number is good for all ratios between 3.07
> >> and 4.88).
> >>
> >> BTW, the Haynes manual (if you trust it) says you do not have to
> >> replace the crush sleeve, instead go for a couple in-pounds more
> >> preload which suggests going toward the high side of the spec.
> >>

jeff

Thanks Mike. I knew there was a reason why I wasn't winning the lottery.
I used all my luck up when I replaced the rear yoke on my YJ. I just
snugged the replacement up tight until I got out of the woods, and then
tightened it to 35 in-lb running torque. I won't do that again but it
has lasted about 70,000 miles so far. Live and learn.

--
jeff


Mike Romain wrote:
> And if you get it right, then you best be running out to buy a lottery
> ticket because it is your day!
>
> Those preloads are for a R+R job with all new parts. They will not
> match up to real life on used equipment.