Close Call!
03-14-2006, 05:31 PM
#101
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
Hmm, if this is the case, then *theoretically* you can regain control by
opening the throttle and speeding up the engine some. I have a physics
degree, and I have been employed as an engineer and as a mechanic. I can
assure you, that *theoretically* this makes sense. I am not going to try it
any time soon though.
Earle
"Vince Hodgson" <v-s-h@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:L_GRf.1554$fy1.162596@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> 0K, here's the thing....
> doesn't matter what you do, if you are starting to slide and its in gear
and
> your foots off the brake, your tires are still turning, just not turning
> fast enough.
>
> therefore, you might as well be slamming on the binders, cause your not in
> control anymore.
>
> best bet in any situation it to slap it into neutral and use the brakes.
> that way the tires keep turning at the right speed and you can start to
> regain control with the brake peddle.
>
> just my 0.2 cents. had an ice situation happen in 4wd and did 360's down
a
> hill (no brakes) and I definitely know if I kicked it into neutral or
> pushed in the clutch, i could have regained control again.
> <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
> news:1142369786.243719.87620@z34g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> > An automatic has plenty of compression braking if in 1st gear and low
> > range 4WD. I realize that a manual has more braking ability, but an
> > automatic still has a LOT.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > You can count on one brake locking up before the others, making
control
> > > on a slippery surface more, um, challenging. The OP was doubly
hampered
> > > by his auto tranny that wouldn't hold him back the way a standard
would
> > > have.
> > >
> >
>
>
opening the throttle and speeding up the engine some. I have a physics
degree, and I have been employed as an engineer and as a mechanic. I can
assure you, that *theoretically* this makes sense. I am not going to try it
any time soon though.
Earle
"Vince Hodgson" <v-s-h@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:L_GRf.1554$fy1.162596@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> 0K, here's the thing....
> doesn't matter what you do, if you are starting to slide and its in gear
and
> your foots off the brake, your tires are still turning, just not turning
> fast enough.
>
> therefore, you might as well be slamming on the binders, cause your not in
> control anymore.
>
> best bet in any situation it to slap it into neutral and use the brakes.
> that way the tires keep turning at the right speed and you can start to
> regain control with the brake peddle.
>
> just my 0.2 cents. had an ice situation happen in 4wd and did 360's down
a
> hill (no brakes) and I definitely know if I kicked it into neutral or
> pushed in the clutch, i could have regained control again.
> <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
> news:1142369786.243719.87620@z34g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> > An automatic has plenty of compression braking if in 1st gear and low
> > range 4WD. I realize that a manual has more braking ability, but an
> > automatic still has a LOT.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
> > > You can count on one brake locking up before the others, making
control
> > > on a slippery surface more, um, challenging. The OP was doubly
hampered
> > > by his auto tranny that wouldn't hold him back the way a standard
would
> > > have.
> > >
> >
>
>
03-14-2006, 05:38 PM
#102
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
I have saved myself from accidents more times than I can count by shifting
to neutral, from an automatic or standard transmission.
I learned this driving technique when I was trained to be a law enforcement
officer twenty years ago, by people trained and qualified to do so, not by
someone that thinks what works for him in his Jeep is best for everyone.
Shifting to neutral does not automatically make you "out of control" as you
put it, but, helps regain control of the vehicle.
Accelerating to regain control is not the correct answer if you are trying
to STOP the vehicle. You're just making things worse.
Try it next time you are on ice or a slick road and pulling up to an
intersection, or coming up on a situation where you must stop or turn. Shift
into neutral and see for yourself under which circumstances you maintain
better control of your vehicle.
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44174066.7DB08BE4@sympatico.ca...
> That happens to us all the time coming down sand pit and ravine walls.
> We do these year round.
>
> Contrary to what might seem right, you have to give it some gas to keep
> control. If you drop back on the gas, the tires can/will stall and
> break free and it's the same as if you had the brake pedal mashed.
>
> If you use the gas and gears right, auto or stick, you can keep the
> wheels turning enough to hold steering control. That is why I like 3rd
> low. It has braking power without too much grab to stall the wheels and
> start a slide. If I am in 2nd, I can stall the wheels if I don't keep
> the rpm high, 1st is useless for descending.
>
> Trying to go too slow can get you into trouble.
>
> Going into neutral can get you killed besides being illegal in every
> state or country I have checked in. In neutral, you are 'out' of
> control.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Vince Hodgson wrote:
>>
>> 0K, here's the thing....
>> doesn't matter what you do, if you are starting to slide and its in gear
>> and
>> your foots off the brake, your tires are still turning, just not turning
>> fast enough.
>>
>> therefore, you might as well be slamming on the binders, cause your not
>> in
>> control anymore.
>>
>> best bet in any situation it to slap it into neutral and use the brakes.
>> that way the tires keep turning at the right speed and you can start to
>> regain control with the brake peddle.
>>
>> just my 0.2 cents. had an ice situation happen in 4wd and did 360's down
>> a
>> hill (no brakes) and I definitely know if I kicked it into neutral or
>> pushed in the clutch, i could have regained control again.
>> <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>> news:1142369786.243719.87620@z34g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>> > An automatic has plenty of compression braking if in 1st gear and low
>> > range 4WD. I realize that a manual has more braking ability, but an
>> > automatic still has a LOT.
>> >
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
>> > > You can count on one brake locking up before the others, making
>> > > control
>> > > on a slippery surface more, um, challenging. The OP was doubly
>> > > hampered
>> > > by his auto tranny that wouldn't hold him back the way a standard
>> > > would
>> > > have.
>> > >
>> >
to neutral, from an automatic or standard transmission.
I learned this driving technique when I was trained to be a law enforcement
officer twenty years ago, by people trained and qualified to do so, not by
someone that thinks what works for him in his Jeep is best for everyone.
Shifting to neutral does not automatically make you "out of control" as you
put it, but, helps regain control of the vehicle.
Accelerating to regain control is not the correct answer if you are trying
to STOP the vehicle. You're just making things worse.
Try it next time you are on ice or a slick road and pulling up to an
intersection, or coming up on a situation where you must stop or turn. Shift
into neutral and see for yourself under which circumstances you maintain
better control of your vehicle.
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44174066.7DB08BE4@sympatico.ca...
> That happens to us all the time coming down sand pit and ravine walls.
> We do these year round.
>
> Contrary to what might seem right, you have to give it some gas to keep
> control. If you drop back on the gas, the tires can/will stall and
> break free and it's the same as if you had the brake pedal mashed.
>
> If you use the gas and gears right, auto or stick, you can keep the
> wheels turning enough to hold steering control. That is why I like 3rd
> low. It has braking power without too much grab to stall the wheels and
> start a slide. If I am in 2nd, I can stall the wheels if I don't keep
> the rpm high, 1st is useless for descending.
>
> Trying to go too slow can get you into trouble.
>
> Going into neutral can get you killed besides being illegal in every
> state or country I have checked in. In neutral, you are 'out' of
> control.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Vince Hodgson wrote:
>>
>> 0K, here's the thing....
>> doesn't matter what you do, if you are starting to slide and its in gear
>> and
>> your foots off the brake, your tires are still turning, just not turning
>> fast enough.
>>
>> therefore, you might as well be slamming on the binders, cause your not
>> in
>> control anymore.
>>
>> best bet in any situation it to slap it into neutral and use the brakes.
>> that way the tires keep turning at the right speed and you can start to
>> regain control with the brake peddle.
>>
>> just my 0.2 cents. had an ice situation happen in 4wd and did 360's down
>> a
>> hill (no brakes) and I definitely know if I kicked it into neutral or
>> pushed in the clutch, i could have regained control again.
>> <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>> news:1142369786.243719.87620@z34g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>> > An automatic has plenty of compression braking if in 1st gear and low
>> > range 4WD. I realize that a manual has more braking ability, but an
>> > automatic still has a LOT.
>> >
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
>> > > You can count on one brake locking up before the others, making
>> > > control
>> > > on a slippery surface more, um, challenging. The OP was doubly
>> > > hampered
>> > > by his auto tranny that wouldn't hold him back the way a standard
>> > > would
>> > > have.
>> > >
>> >
03-14-2006, 05:38 PM
#103
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
I have saved myself from accidents more times than I can count by shifting
to neutral, from an automatic or standard transmission.
I learned this driving technique when I was trained to be a law enforcement
officer twenty years ago, by people trained and qualified to do so, not by
someone that thinks what works for him in his Jeep is best for everyone.
Shifting to neutral does not automatically make you "out of control" as you
put it, but, helps regain control of the vehicle.
Accelerating to regain control is not the correct answer if you are trying
to STOP the vehicle. You're just making things worse.
Try it next time you are on ice or a slick road and pulling up to an
intersection, or coming up on a situation where you must stop or turn. Shift
into neutral and see for yourself under which circumstances you maintain
better control of your vehicle.
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44174066.7DB08BE4@sympatico.ca...
> That happens to us all the time coming down sand pit and ravine walls.
> We do these year round.
>
> Contrary to what might seem right, you have to give it some gas to keep
> control. If you drop back on the gas, the tires can/will stall and
> break free and it's the same as if you had the brake pedal mashed.
>
> If you use the gas and gears right, auto or stick, you can keep the
> wheels turning enough to hold steering control. That is why I like 3rd
> low. It has braking power without too much grab to stall the wheels and
> start a slide. If I am in 2nd, I can stall the wheels if I don't keep
> the rpm high, 1st is useless for descending.
>
> Trying to go too slow can get you into trouble.
>
> Going into neutral can get you killed besides being illegal in every
> state or country I have checked in. In neutral, you are 'out' of
> control.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Vince Hodgson wrote:
>>
>> 0K, here's the thing....
>> doesn't matter what you do, if you are starting to slide and its in gear
>> and
>> your foots off the brake, your tires are still turning, just not turning
>> fast enough.
>>
>> therefore, you might as well be slamming on the binders, cause your not
>> in
>> control anymore.
>>
>> best bet in any situation it to slap it into neutral and use the brakes.
>> that way the tires keep turning at the right speed and you can start to
>> regain control with the brake peddle.
>>
>> just my 0.2 cents. had an ice situation happen in 4wd and did 360's down
>> a
>> hill (no brakes) and I definitely know if I kicked it into neutral or
>> pushed in the clutch, i could have regained control again.
>> <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>> news:1142369786.243719.87620@z34g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>> > An automatic has plenty of compression braking if in 1st gear and low
>> > range 4WD. I realize that a manual has more braking ability, but an
>> > automatic still has a LOT.
>> >
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
>> > > You can count on one brake locking up before the others, making
>> > > control
>> > > on a slippery surface more, um, challenging. The OP was doubly
>> > > hampered
>> > > by his auto tranny that wouldn't hold him back the way a standard
>> > > would
>> > > have.
>> > >
>> >
to neutral, from an automatic or standard transmission.
I learned this driving technique when I was trained to be a law enforcement
officer twenty years ago, by people trained and qualified to do so, not by
someone that thinks what works for him in his Jeep is best for everyone.
Shifting to neutral does not automatically make you "out of control" as you
put it, but, helps regain control of the vehicle.
Accelerating to regain control is not the correct answer if you are trying
to STOP the vehicle. You're just making things worse.
Try it next time you are on ice or a slick road and pulling up to an
intersection, or coming up on a situation where you must stop or turn. Shift
into neutral and see for yourself under which circumstances you maintain
better control of your vehicle.
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44174066.7DB08BE4@sympatico.ca...
> That happens to us all the time coming down sand pit and ravine walls.
> We do these year round.
>
> Contrary to what might seem right, you have to give it some gas to keep
> control. If you drop back on the gas, the tires can/will stall and
> break free and it's the same as if you had the brake pedal mashed.
>
> If you use the gas and gears right, auto or stick, you can keep the
> wheels turning enough to hold steering control. That is why I like 3rd
> low. It has braking power without too much grab to stall the wheels and
> start a slide. If I am in 2nd, I can stall the wheels if I don't keep
> the rpm high, 1st is useless for descending.
>
> Trying to go too slow can get you into trouble.
>
> Going into neutral can get you killed besides being illegal in every
> state or country I have checked in. In neutral, you are 'out' of
> control.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Vince Hodgson wrote:
>>
>> 0K, here's the thing....
>> doesn't matter what you do, if you are starting to slide and its in gear
>> and
>> your foots off the brake, your tires are still turning, just not turning
>> fast enough.
>>
>> therefore, you might as well be slamming on the binders, cause your not
>> in
>> control anymore.
>>
>> best bet in any situation it to slap it into neutral and use the brakes.
>> that way the tires keep turning at the right speed and you can start to
>> regain control with the brake peddle.
>>
>> just my 0.2 cents. had an ice situation happen in 4wd and did 360's down
>> a
>> hill (no brakes) and I definitely know if I kicked it into neutral or
>> pushed in the clutch, i could have regained control again.
>> <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>> news:1142369786.243719.87620@z34g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>> > An automatic has plenty of compression braking if in 1st gear and low
>> > range 4WD. I realize that a manual has more braking ability, but an
>> > automatic still has a LOT.
>> >
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
>> > > You can count on one brake locking up before the others, making
>> > > control
>> > > on a slippery surface more, um, challenging. The OP was doubly
>> > > hampered
>> > > by his auto tranny that wouldn't hold him back the way a standard
>> > > would
>> > > have.
>> > >
>> >
03-14-2006, 05:38 PM
#104
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
I have saved myself from accidents more times than I can count by shifting
to neutral, from an automatic or standard transmission.
I learned this driving technique when I was trained to be a law enforcement
officer twenty years ago, by people trained and qualified to do so, not by
someone that thinks what works for him in his Jeep is best for everyone.
Shifting to neutral does not automatically make you "out of control" as you
put it, but, helps regain control of the vehicle.
Accelerating to regain control is not the correct answer if you are trying
to STOP the vehicle. You're just making things worse.
Try it next time you are on ice or a slick road and pulling up to an
intersection, or coming up on a situation where you must stop or turn. Shift
into neutral and see for yourself under which circumstances you maintain
better control of your vehicle.
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44174066.7DB08BE4@sympatico.ca...
> That happens to us all the time coming down sand pit and ravine walls.
> We do these year round.
>
> Contrary to what might seem right, you have to give it some gas to keep
> control. If you drop back on the gas, the tires can/will stall and
> break free and it's the same as if you had the brake pedal mashed.
>
> If you use the gas and gears right, auto or stick, you can keep the
> wheels turning enough to hold steering control. That is why I like 3rd
> low. It has braking power without too much grab to stall the wheels and
> start a slide. If I am in 2nd, I can stall the wheels if I don't keep
> the rpm high, 1st is useless for descending.
>
> Trying to go too slow can get you into trouble.
>
> Going into neutral can get you killed besides being illegal in every
> state or country I have checked in. In neutral, you are 'out' of
> control.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Vince Hodgson wrote:
>>
>> 0K, here's the thing....
>> doesn't matter what you do, if you are starting to slide and its in gear
>> and
>> your foots off the brake, your tires are still turning, just not turning
>> fast enough.
>>
>> therefore, you might as well be slamming on the binders, cause your not
>> in
>> control anymore.
>>
>> best bet in any situation it to slap it into neutral and use the brakes.
>> that way the tires keep turning at the right speed and you can start to
>> regain control with the brake peddle.
>>
>> just my 0.2 cents. had an ice situation happen in 4wd and did 360's down
>> a
>> hill (no brakes) and I definitely know if I kicked it into neutral or
>> pushed in the clutch, i could have regained control again.
>> <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>> news:1142369786.243719.87620@z34g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>> > An automatic has plenty of compression braking if in 1st gear and low
>> > range 4WD. I realize that a manual has more braking ability, but an
>> > automatic still has a LOT.
>> >
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
>> > > You can count on one brake locking up before the others, making
>> > > control
>> > > on a slippery surface more, um, challenging. The OP was doubly
>> > > hampered
>> > > by his auto tranny that wouldn't hold him back the way a standard
>> > > would
>> > > have.
>> > >
>> >
to neutral, from an automatic or standard transmission.
I learned this driving technique when I was trained to be a law enforcement
officer twenty years ago, by people trained and qualified to do so, not by
someone that thinks what works for him in his Jeep is best for everyone.
Shifting to neutral does not automatically make you "out of control" as you
put it, but, helps regain control of the vehicle.
Accelerating to regain control is not the correct answer if you are trying
to STOP the vehicle. You're just making things worse.
Try it next time you are on ice or a slick road and pulling up to an
intersection, or coming up on a situation where you must stop or turn. Shift
into neutral and see for yourself under which circumstances you maintain
better control of your vehicle.
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44174066.7DB08BE4@sympatico.ca...
> That happens to us all the time coming down sand pit and ravine walls.
> We do these year round.
>
> Contrary to what might seem right, you have to give it some gas to keep
> control. If you drop back on the gas, the tires can/will stall and
> break free and it's the same as if you had the brake pedal mashed.
>
> If you use the gas and gears right, auto or stick, you can keep the
> wheels turning enough to hold steering control. That is why I like 3rd
> low. It has braking power without too much grab to stall the wheels and
> start a slide. If I am in 2nd, I can stall the wheels if I don't keep
> the rpm high, 1st is useless for descending.
>
> Trying to go too slow can get you into trouble.
>
> Going into neutral can get you killed besides being illegal in every
> state or country I have checked in. In neutral, you are 'out' of
> control.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Vince Hodgson wrote:
>>
>> 0K, here's the thing....
>> doesn't matter what you do, if you are starting to slide and its in gear
>> and
>> your foots off the brake, your tires are still turning, just not turning
>> fast enough.
>>
>> therefore, you might as well be slamming on the binders, cause your not
>> in
>> control anymore.
>>
>> best bet in any situation it to slap it into neutral and use the brakes.
>> that way the tires keep turning at the right speed and you can start to
>> regain control with the brake peddle.
>>
>> just my 0.2 cents. had an ice situation happen in 4wd and did 360's down
>> a
>> hill (no brakes) and I definitely know if I kicked it into neutral or
>> pushed in the clutch, i could have regained control again.
>> <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>> news:1142369786.243719.87620@z34g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>> > An automatic has plenty of compression braking if in 1st gear and low
>> > range 4WD. I realize that a manual has more braking ability, but an
>> > automatic still has a LOT.
>> >
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
>> > > You can count on one brake locking up before the others, making
>> > > control
>> > > on a slippery surface more, um, challenging. The OP was doubly
>> > > hampered
>> > > by his auto tranny that wouldn't hold him back the way a standard
>> > > would
>> > > have.
>> > >
>> >
03-14-2006, 05:38 PM
#105
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
I have saved myself from accidents more times than I can count by shifting
to neutral, from an automatic or standard transmission.
I learned this driving technique when I was trained to be a law enforcement
officer twenty years ago, by people trained and qualified to do so, not by
someone that thinks what works for him in his Jeep is best for everyone.
Shifting to neutral does not automatically make you "out of control" as you
put it, but, helps regain control of the vehicle.
Accelerating to regain control is not the correct answer if you are trying
to STOP the vehicle. You're just making things worse.
Try it next time you are on ice or a slick road and pulling up to an
intersection, or coming up on a situation where you must stop or turn. Shift
into neutral and see for yourself under which circumstances you maintain
better control of your vehicle.
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44174066.7DB08BE4@sympatico.ca...
> That happens to us all the time coming down sand pit and ravine walls.
> We do these year round.
>
> Contrary to what might seem right, you have to give it some gas to keep
> control. If you drop back on the gas, the tires can/will stall and
> break free and it's the same as if you had the brake pedal mashed.
>
> If you use the gas and gears right, auto or stick, you can keep the
> wheels turning enough to hold steering control. That is why I like 3rd
> low. It has braking power without too much grab to stall the wheels and
> start a slide. If I am in 2nd, I can stall the wheels if I don't keep
> the rpm high, 1st is useless for descending.
>
> Trying to go too slow can get you into trouble.
>
> Going into neutral can get you killed besides being illegal in every
> state or country I have checked in. In neutral, you are 'out' of
> control.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Vince Hodgson wrote:
>>
>> 0K, here's the thing....
>> doesn't matter what you do, if you are starting to slide and its in gear
>> and
>> your foots off the brake, your tires are still turning, just not turning
>> fast enough.
>>
>> therefore, you might as well be slamming on the binders, cause your not
>> in
>> control anymore.
>>
>> best bet in any situation it to slap it into neutral and use the brakes.
>> that way the tires keep turning at the right speed and you can start to
>> regain control with the brake peddle.
>>
>> just my 0.2 cents. had an ice situation happen in 4wd and did 360's down
>> a
>> hill (no brakes) and I definitely know if I kicked it into neutral or
>> pushed in the clutch, i could have regained control again.
>> <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>> news:1142369786.243719.87620@z34g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>> > An automatic has plenty of compression braking if in 1st gear and low
>> > range 4WD. I realize that a manual has more braking ability, but an
>> > automatic still has a LOT.
>> >
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
>> > > You can count on one brake locking up before the others, making
>> > > control
>> > > on a slippery surface more, um, challenging. The OP was doubly
>> > > hampered
>> > > by his auto tranny that wouldn't hold him back the way a standard
>> > > would
>> > > have.
>> > >
>> >
to neutral, from an automatic or standard transmission.
I learned this driving technique when I was trained to be a law enforcement
officer twenty years ago, by people trained and qualified to do so, not by
someone that thinks what works for him in his Jeep is best for everyone.
Shifting to neutral does not automatically make you "out of control" as you
put it, but, helps regain control of the vehicle.
Accelerating to regain control is not the correct answer if you are trying
to STOP the vehicle. You're just making things worse.
Try it next time you are on ice or a slick road and pulling up to an
intersection, or coming up on a situation where you must stop or turn. Shift
into neutral and see for yourself under which circumstances you maintain
better control of your vehicle.
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44174066.7DB08BE4@sympatico.ca...
> That happens to us all the time coming down sand pit and ravine walls.
> We do these year round.
>
> Contrary to what might seem right, you have to give it some gas to keep
> control. If you drop back on the gas, the tires can/will stall and
> break free and it's the same as if you had the brake pedal mashed.
>
> If you use the gas and gears right, auto or stick, you can keep the
> wheels turning enough to hold steering control. That is why I like 3rd
> low. It has braking power without too much grab to stall the wheels and
> start a slide. If I am in 2nd, I can stall the wheels if I don't keep
> the rpm high, 1st is useless for descending.
>
> Trying to go too slow can get you into trouble.
>
> Going into neutral can get you killed besides being illegal in every
> state or country I have checked in. In neutral, you are 'out' of
> control.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Vince Hodgson wrote:
>>
>> 0K, here's the thing....
>> doesn't matter what you do, if you are starting to slide and its in gear
>> and
>> your foots off the brake, your tires are still turning, just not turning
>> fast enough.
>>
>> therefore, you might as well be slamming on the binders, cause your not
>> in
>> control anymore.
>>
>> best bet in any situation it to slap it into neutral and use the brakes.
>> that way the tires keep turning at the right speed and you can start to
>> regain control with the brake peddle.
>>
>> just my 0.2 cents. had an ice situation happen in 4wd and did 360's down
>> a
>> hill (no brakes) and I definitely know if I kicked it into neutral or
>> pushed in the clutch, i could have regained control again.
>> <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
>> news:1142369786.243719.87620@z34g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>> > An automatic has plenty of compression braking if in 1st gear and low
>> > range 4WD. I realize that a manual has more braking ability, but an
>> > automatic still has a LOT.
>> >
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > Lee Ayrton wrote:
>> > > You can count on one brake locking up before the others, making
>> > > control
>> > > on a slippery surface more, um, challenging. The OP was doubly
>> > > hampered
>> > > by his auto tranny that wouldn't hold him back the way a standard
>> > > would
>> > > have.
>> > >
>> >
03-14-2006, 05:47 PM
#106
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Well....
>
> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>
> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>
> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>
> What are you running for rubber?
>
> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>
> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>
> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Well....
>
> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>
> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>
> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>
> What are you running for rubber?
>
> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>
> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>
> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
03-14-2006, 05:47 PM
#107
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Well....
>
> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>
> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>
> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>
> What are you running for rubber?
>
> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>
> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>
> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Well....
>
> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>
> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>
> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>
> What are you running for rubber?
>
> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>
> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>
> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
03-14-2006, 05:47 PM
#108
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Well....
>
> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>
> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>
> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>
> What are you running for rubber?
>
> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>
> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>
> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Well....
>
> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>
> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>
> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>
> What are you running for rubber?
>
> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>
> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>
> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
03-14-2006, 05:47 PM
#109
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Well....
>
> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>
> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>
> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>
> What are you running for rubber?
>
> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>
> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>
> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Well....
>
> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>
> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>
> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>
> What are you running for rubber?
>
> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>
> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>
> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
03-14-2006, 06:06 PM
#110
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
Shifting into neutral is against the law at here in Kalifornia.
Even depressing the clutch is a panic symptom that'll quickly lead to
being totaling out of control!
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Spdloader wrote:
>
> I have saved myself from accidents more times than I can count by shifting
> to neutral, from an automatic or standard transmission.
>
> I learned this driving technique when I was trained to be a law enforcement
> officer twenty years ago, by people trained and qualified to do so, not by
> someone that thinks what works for him in his Jeep is best for everyone.
>
> Shifting to neutral does not automatically make you "out of control" as you
> put it, but, helps regain control of the vehicle.
>
> Accelerating to regain control is not the correct answer if you are trying
> to STOP the vehicle. You're just making things worse.
>
> Try it next time you are on ice or a slick road and pulling up to an
> intersection, or coming up on a situation where you must stop or turn. Shift
> into neutral and see for yourself under which circumstances you maintain
> better control of your vehicle.
>
> Spdloader
Even depressing the clutch is a panic symptom that'll quickly lead to
being totaling out of control!
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Spdloader wrote:
>
> I have saved myself from accidents more times than I can count by shifting
> to neutral, from an automatic or standard transmission.
>
> I learned this driving technique when I was trained to be a law enforcement
> officer twenty years ago, by people trained and qualified to do so, not by
> someone that thinks what works for him in his Jeep is best for everyone.
>
> Shifting to neutral does not automatically make you "out of control" as you
> put it, but, helps regain control of the vehicle.
>
> Accelerating to regain control is not the correct answer if you are trying
> to STOP the vehicle. You're just making things worse.
>
> Try it next time you are on ice or a slick road and pulling up to an
> intersection, or coming up on a situation where you must stop or turn. Shift
> into neutral and see for yourself under which circumstances you maintain
> better control of your vehicle.
>
> Spdloader