Earle Horton

That experience is unusual, but it does happen with any make, even Mercedes.
Odyssey is a minivan, isn't it? I've got like 90,000 on my Civic, and I
never did anything except for maintenance items and tires for it. I believe
I have the original tires on the back. I still haven't figured out where
the transmission level check is at.

That arrogant attitude is bad. I've seen it too, in places where you would
never expect it, like Dodge dealerships. ;^)

Earle

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:XNadnRD8qva_lnPYnZ2dnUVZ_oGlnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> We leased a brand-new Honda Odessey a few years back. Imagine our suprise
> when we found a ten-inch-wide puddle of oil under the engine when we
pulled
> out of the garage on the second day. It was in the shop a total of 4 weeks
> in our first two months of ownership. Eventually they had to buy it back
> under Michigan's lemon law because the dealership could never fix it.
>
> And the DVD player screen was all screwed up, too.
>
> Better engineered, maybe, maybe not. The arrogance of "This never happens
> with Hondas" we encountered at every turn has put me off the brand for
good.
>
> "abomb69" <abuse@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:LglHh.2880$tv6.2736@newssvr19.news.prodigy.ne t...
> > yeah or toyota
> >
> > "Earle Horton" <apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote in message
> > news:PpednVwBcYxwQ3DYnZ2dnUVZ_rqhnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >> If you are willing to talk price/quality optimization, I submit that
> >> Hondas
> >> are the best engineered car in the world.
> >>
> >> Saludos,
> >>
> >> Earle
> >>
> >> "Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1173216259.971728.61600@v33g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com...
> >>> The word now is that DCX may split Chrysler (and certainly Jeep will
> >>> go with it) off from its corporate structure.
> >>>
> >>> DCX has been a failure not because of Chrysler, but because of German
> >>> management who refuse to make good on the idea under which the merger
> >>> was founded...that the two would benefit from American manufacturing
> >>> (cheaper than German and with good quality given good management, as
> >>> the Japanese US plants and Saturn have proved) and branding and German
> >>> engineering.
> >>>
> >>> Mechanically, the Mercedes Benz is mostly still the best engineered
> >>> car in the world. Most of its issues have been electrical. But DCX has
> >>> refused to take advantage of US design at all in its products (they
> >>> should have bought Delphi when it was in trouble) and also refused to
> >>> put the better pieces of Mercedes engineering in the US product,
> >>> claiming it would dilute the exclusivity of Mercedes products.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Earle Horton

I always carry a camera.

Earle

"Scootter" <urn4trouble@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:93oHh.3269$iw4.1379@newssvr23.news.prodigy.ne t...
> I hear you, Sure gets old hearing that you can't do any wrong with a
Toyota
> or Honda. Tell that guy in the Toyota camary I was following last week on
> the highway when his hood decided to open up. Picture driving down the
> highway I96 in Detroit doing 55 and not seeing anything. The hood was
shaped
> like a "C" folded on the roof. Dam! Yimes like that I wish I had a camera.
> Better yet picturing the guy dancing on the hood trying to close it after
> that. LOL
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:XNadnRD8qva_lnPYnZ2dnUVZ_oGlnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> > We leased a brand-new Honda Odessey a few years back. Imagine our
suprise
> > when we found a ten-inch-wide puddle of oil under the engine when we
> > pulled out of the garage on the second day. It was in the shop a total
of
> > 4 weeks in our first two months of ownership. Eventually they had to
buy
> > it back under Michigan's lemon law because the dealership could never
fix
> > it.
> >
> > And the DVD player screen was all screwed up, too.
> >
> > Better engineered, maybe, maybe not. The arrogance of "This never
happens
> > with Hondas" we encountered at every turn has put me off the brand for
> > good.
> >
> > "abomb69" <abuse@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:LglHh.2880$tv6.2736@newssvr19.news.prodigy.ne t...
> >> yeah or toyota
> >>
> >> "Earle Horton" <apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote in message
> >> news:PpednVwBcYxwQ3DYnZ2dnUVZ_rqhnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >>> If you are willing to talk price/quality optimization, I submit that
> >>> Hondas
> >>> are the best engineered car in the world.
> >>>
> >>> Saludos,
> >>>
> >>> Earle
> >>>
> >>> "Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:1173216259.971728.61600@v33g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com...
> >>>> The word now is that DCX may split Chrysler (and certainly Jeep will
> >>>> go with it) off from its corporate structure.
> >>>>
> >>>> DCX has been a failure not because of Chrysler, but because of
German
> >>>> management who refuse to make good on the idea under which the merger
> >>>> was founded...that the two would benefit from American manufacturing
> >>>> (cheaper than German and with good quality given good management, as
> >>>> the Japanese US plants and Saturn have proved) and branding and
German
> >>>> engineering.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mechanically, the Mercedes Benz is mostly still the best engineered
> >>>> car in the world. Most of its issues have been electrical. But DCX
has
> >>>> refused to take advantage of US design at all in its products (they
> >>>> should have bought Delphi when it was in trouble) and also refused to
> >>>> put the better pieces of Mercedes engineering in the US product,
> >>>> claiming it would dilute the exclusivity of Mercedes products.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Earle Horton

I always carry a camera.

Earle

"Scootter" <urn4trouble@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:93oHh.3269$iw4.1379@newssvr23.news.prodigy.ne t...
> I hear you, Sure gets old hearing that you can't do any wrong with a
Toyota
> or Honda. Tell that guy in the Toyota camary I was following last week on
> the highway when his hood decided to open up. Picture driving down the
> highway I96 in Detroit doing 55 and not seeing anything. The hood was
shaped
> like a "C" folded on the roof. Dam! Yimes like that I wish I had a camera.
> Better yet picturing the guy dancing on the hood trying to close it after
> that. LOL
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:XNadnRD8qva_lnPYnZ2dnUVZ_oGlnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> > We leased a brand-new Honda Odessey a few years back. Imagine our
suprise
> > when we found a ten-inch-wide puddle of oil under the engine when we
> > pulled out of the garage on the second day. It was in the shop a total
of
> > 4 weeks in our first two months of ownership. Eventually they had to
buy
> > it back under Michigan's lemon law because the dealership could never
fix
> > it.
> >
> > And the DVD player screen was all screwed up, too.
> >
> > Better engineered, maybe, maybe not. The arrogance of "This never
happens
> > with Hondas" we encountered at every turn has put me off the brand for
> > good.
> >
> > "abomb69" <abuse@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:LglHh.2880$tv6.2736@newssvr19.news.prodigy.ne t...
> >> yeah or toyota
> >>
> >> "Earle Horton" <apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote in message
> >> news:PpednVwBcYxwQ3DYnZ2dnUVZ_rqhnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >>> If you are willing to talk price/quality optimization, I submit that
> >>> Hondas
> >>> are the best engineered car in the world.
> >>>
> >>> Saludos,
> >>>
> >>> Earle
> >>>
> >>> "Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:1173216259.971728.61600@v33g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com...
> >>>> The word now is that DCX may split Chrysler (and certainly Jeep will
> >>>> go with it) off from its corporate structure.
> >>>>
> >>>> DCX has been a failure not because of Chrysler, but because of
German
> >>>> management who refuse to make good on the idea under which the merger
> >>>> was founded...that the two would benefit from American manufacturing
> >>>> (cheaper than German and with good quality given good management, as
> >>>> the Japanese US plants and Saturn have proved) and branding and
German
> >>>> engineering.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mechanically, the Mercedes Benz is mostly still the best engineered
> >>>> car in the world. Most of its issues have been electrical. But DCX
has
> >>>> refused to take advantage of US design at all in its products (they
> >>>> should have bought Delphi when it was in trouble) and also refused to
> >>>> put the better pieces of Mercedes engineering in the US product,
> >>>> claiming it would dilute the exclusivity of Mercedes products.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Earle Horton

I always carry a camera.

Earle

"Scootter" <urn4trouble@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:93oHh.3269$iw4.1379@newssvr23.news.prodigy.ne t...
> I hear you, Sure gets old hearing that you can't do any wrong with a
Toyota
> or Honda. Tell that guy in the Toyota camary I was following last week on
> the highway when his hood decided to open up. Picture driving down the
> highway I96 in Detroit doing 55 and not seeing anything. The hood was
shaped
> like a "C" folded on the roof. Dam! Yimes like that I wish I had a camera.
> Better yet picturing the guy dancing on the hood trying to close it after
> that. LOL
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:XNadnRD8qva_lnPYnZ2dnUVZ_oGlnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> > We leased a brand-new Honda Odessey a few years back. Imagine our
suprise
> > when we found a ten-inch-wide puddle of oil under the engine when we
> > pulled out of the garage on the second day. It was in the shop a total
of
> > 4 weeks in our first two months of ownership. Eventually they had to
buy
> > it back under Michigan's lemon law because the dealership could never
fix
> > it.
> >
> > And the DVD player screen was all screwed up, too.
> >
> > Better engineered, maybe, maybe not. The arrogance of "This never
happens
> > with Hondas" we encountered at every turn has put me off the brand for
> > good.
> >
> > "abomb69" <abuse@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:LglHh.2880$tv6.2736@newssvr19.news.prodigy.ne t...
> >> yeah or toyota
> >>
> >> "Earle Horton" <apodo@gracioso.usa> wrote in message
> >> news:PpednVwBcYxwQ3DYnZ2dnUVZ_rqhnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> >>> If you are willing to talk price/quality optimization, I submit that
> >>> Hondas
> >>> are the best engineered car in the world.
> >>>
> >>> Saludos,
> >>>
> >>> Earle
> >>>
> >>> "Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:1173216259.971728.61600@v33g2000cwv.googlegro ups.com...
> >>>> The word now is that DCX may split Chrysler (and certainly Jeep will
> >>>> go with it) off from its corporate structure.
> >>>>
> >>>> DCX has been a failure not because of Chrysler, but because of
German
> >>>> management who refuse to make good on the idea under which the merger
> >>>> was founded...that the two would benefit from American manufacturing
> >>>> (cheaper than German and with good quality given good management, as
> >>>> the Japanese US plants and Saturn have proved) and branding and
German
> >>>> engineering.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mechanically, the Mercedes Benz is mostly still the best engineered
> >>>> car in the world. Most of its issues have been electrical. But DCX
has
> >>>> refused to take advantage of US design at all in its products (they
> >>>> should have bought Delphi when it was in trouble) and also refused to
> >>>> put the better pieces of Mercedes engineering in the US product,
> >>>> claiming it would dilute the exclusivity of Mercedes products.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

RapidRonnie

On Mar 6, 6:54 pm, "Scootter" <urn4trou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I hear you, Sure gets old hearing that you can't do any wrong with a Toyota
> or Honda. Tell that guy in the Toyota camary I was following last week on
> the highway when his hood decided to open up. Picture driving down the
> highway I96 in Detroit doing 55 and not seeing anything. The hood was shaped
> like a "C" folded on the roof. Dam! Yimes like that I wish I had a camera.
> Better yet picturing the guy dancing on the hood trying to close it after
> that. LOL


Mechanically, the Japanese car manufacturers figured out that what is
important is the length of time that 80% of the fleet goes before
major repairs are needed such that the car is junked. Rebuildability
beyond that is secondary.

That said the Japanese build some exemplary mechanicals that run
astonishingly long times and will take much more than you'd expect.
The Toyota pushrod fours were fantastically long lived engines as are
the Toyota Supra five and six speed transmissions the Australians put
behind A series mopar engines all the time (and the six speed behind
383s.) The inline four and six OHC Nissans were tough engines too. The
SD and RD Nissan Diesels and the flat four Subarus are also
astonishingly tough. People bet their lives on the Subaru when they
put them in aircraft: somethhing like 2500 are flying, which is a lot.
How many people fly a small block Chevy? Two I have heard of.

A lot of the old Japanese accessories were no good, but now the ND
alternators and Sanden compressors are good enough you see them on a
lot of hot rods. Their carburetors were poor, but who runs a carb
anymore?

Most Hondas are long lived if not abused but one really good overheat
is all she wrote. Still, usually they go to the crusher under their
own power.

RapidRonnie

On Mar 6, 6:54 pm, "Scootter" <urn4trou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I hear you, Sure gets old hearing that you can't do any wrong with a Toyota
> or Honda. Tell that guy in the Toyota camary I was following last week on
> the highway when his hood decided to open up. Picture driving down the
> highway I96 in Detroit doing 55 and not seeing anything. The hood was shaped
> like a "C" folded on the roof. Dam! Yimes like that I wish I had a camera.
> Better yet picturing the guy dancing on the hood trying to close it after
> that. LOL


Mechanically, the Japanese car manufacturers figured out that what is
important is the length of time that 80% of the fleet goes before
major repairs are needed such that the car is junked. Rebuildability
beyond that is secondary.

That said the Japanese build some exemplary mechanicals that run
astonishingly long times and will take much more than you'd expect.
The Toyota pushrod fours were fantastically long lived engines as are
the Toyota Supra five and six speed transmissions the Australians put
behind A series mopar engines all the time (and the six speed behind
383s.) The inline four and six OHC Nissans were tough engines too. The
SD and RD Nissan Diesels and the flat four Subarus are also
astonishingly tough. People bet their lives on the Subaru when they
put them in aircraft: somethhing like 2500 are flying, which is a lot.
How many people fly a small block Chevy? Two I have heard of.

A lot of the old Japanese accessories were no good, but now the ND
alternators and Sanden compressors are good enough you see them on a
lot of hot rods. Their carburetors were poor, but who runs a carb
anymore?

Most Hondas are long lived if not abused but one really good overheat
is all she wrote. Still, usually they go to the crusher under their
own power.

RapidRonnie

On Mar 6, 6:54 pm, "Scootter" <urn4trou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I hear you, Sure gets old hearing that you can't do any wrong with a Toyota
> or Honda. Tell that guy in the Toyota camary I was following last week on
> the highway when his hood decided to open up. Picture driving down the
> highway I96 in Detroit doing 55 and not seeing anything. The hood was shaped
> like a "C" folded on the roof. Dam! Yimes like that I wish I had a camera.
> Better yet picturing the guy dancing on the hood trying to close it after
> that. LOL


Mechanically, the Japanese car manufacturers figured out that what is
important is the length of time that 80% of the fleet goes before
major repairs are needed such that the car is junked. Rebuildability
beyond that is secondary.

That said the Japanese build some exemplary mechanicals that run
astonishingly long times and will take much more than you'd expect.
The Toyota pushrod fours were fantastically long lived engines as are
the Toyota Supra five and six speed transmissions the Australians put
behind A series mopar engines all the time (and the six speed behind
383s.) The inline four and six OHC Nissans were tough engines too. The
SD and RD Nissan Diesels and the flat four Subarus are also
astonishingly tough. People bet their lives on the Subaru when they
put them in aircraft: somethhing like 2500 are flying, which is a lot.
How many people fly a small block Chevy? Two I have heard of.

A lot of the old Japanese accessories were no good, but now the ND
alternators and Sanden compressors are good enough you see them on a
lot of hot rods. Their carburetors were poor, but who runs a carb
anymore?

Most Hondas are long lived if not abused but one really good overheat
is all she wrote. Still, usually they go to the crusher under their
own power.

Jeff DeWitt

Hmm... my Studebaker has a Sanden compressor <G>

Jeff DeWitt

RapidRonnie wrote:
> On Mar 6, 6:54 pm, "Scootter" <urn4trou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I hear you, Sure gets old hearing that you can't do any wrong with a Toyota
>>or Honda. Tell that guy in the Toyota camary I was following last week on
>>the highway when his hood decided to open up. Picture driving down the
>>highway I96 in Detroit doing 55 and not seeing anything. The hood was shaped
>>like a "C" folded on the roof. Dam! Yimes like that I wish I had a camera.
>>Better yet picturing the guy dancing on the hood trying to close it after
>>that. LOL
>
>
>
> Mechanically, the Japanese car manufacturers figured out that what is
> important is the length of time that 80% of the fleet goes before
> major repairs are needed such that the car is junked. Rebuildability
> beyond that is secondary.
>
> That said the Japanese build some exemplary mechanicals that run
> astonishingly long times and will take much more than you'd expect.
> The Toyota pushrod fours were fantastically long lived engines as are
> the Toyota Supra five and six speed transmissions the Australians put
> behind A series mopar engines all the time (and the six speed behind
> 383s.) The inline four and six OHC Nissans were tough engines too. The
> SD and RD Nissan Diesels and the flat four Subarus are also
> astonishingly tough. People bet their lives on the Subaru when they
> put them in aircraft: somethhing like 2500 are flying, which is a lot.
> How many people fly a small block Chevy? Two I have heard of.
>
> A lot of the old Japanese accessories were no good, but now the ND
> alternators and Sanden compressors are good enough you see them on a
> lot of hot rods. Their carburetors were poor, but who runs a carb
> anymore?
>
> Most Hondas are long lived if not abused but one really good overheat
> is all she wrote. Still, usually they go to the crusher under their
> own power.
>

Jeff DeWitt

Hmm... my Studebaker has a Sanden compressor <G>

Jeff DeWitt

RapidRonnie wrote:
> On Mar 6, 6:54 pm, "Scootter" <urn4trou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I hear you, Sure gets old hearing that you can't do any wrong with a Toyota
>>or Honda. Tell that guy in the Toyota camary I was following last week on
>>the highway when his hood decided to open up. Picture driving down the
>>highway I96 in Detroit doing 55 and not seeing anything. The hood was shaped
>>like a "C" folded on the roof. Dam! Yimes like that I wish I had a camera.
>>Better yet picturing the guy dancing on the hood trying to close it after
>>that. LOL
>
>
>
> Mechanically, the Japanese car manufacturers figured out that what is
> important is the length of time that 80% of the fleet goes before
> major repairs are needed such that the car is junked. Rebuildability
> beyond that is secondary.
>
> That said the Japanese build some exemplary mechanicals that run
> astonishingly long times and will take much more than you'd expect.
> The Toyota pushrod fours were fantastically long lived engines as are
> the Toyota Supra five and six speed transmissions the Australians put
> behind A series mopar engines all the time (and the six speed behind
> 383s.) The inline four and six OHC Nissans were tough engines too. The
> SD and RD Nissan Diesels and the flat four Subarus are also
> astonishingly tough. People bet their lives on the Subaru when they
> put them in aircraft: somethhing like 2500 are flying, which is a lot.
> How many people fly a small block Chevy? Two I have heard of.
>
> A lot of the old Japanese accessories were no good, but now the ND
> alternators and Sanden compressors are good enough you see them on a
> lot of hot rods. Their carburetors were poor, but who runs a carb
> anymore?
>
> Most Hondas are long lived if not abused but one really good overheat
> is all she wrote. Still, usually they go to the crusher under their
> own power.
>

Jeff DeWitt

Hmm... my Studebaker has a Sanden compressor <G>

Jeff DeWitt

RapidRonnie wrote:
> On Mar 6, 6:54 pm, "Scootter" <urn4trou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I hear you, Sure gets old hearing that you can't do any wrong with a Toyota
>>or Honda. Tell that guy in the Toyota camary I was following last week on
>>the highway when his hood decided to open up. Picture driving down the
>>highway I96 in Detroit doing 55 and not seeing anything. The hood was shaped
>>like a "C" folded on the roof. Dam! Yimes like that I wish I had a camera.
>>Better yet picturing the guy dancing on the hood trying to close it after
>>that. LOL
>
>
>
> Mechanically, the Japanese car manufacturers figured out that what is
> important is the length of time that 80% of the fleet goes before
> major repairs are needed such that the car is junked. Rebuildability
> beyond that is secondary.
>
> That said the Japanese build some exemplary mechanicals that run
> astonishingly long times and will take much more than you'd expect.
> The Toyota pushrod fours were fantastically long lived engines as are
> the Toyota Supra five and six speed transmissions the Australians put
> behind A series mopar engines all the time (and the six speed behind
> 383s.) The inline four and six OHC Nissans were tough engines too. The
> SD and RD Nissan Diesels and the flat four Subarus are also
> astonishingly tough. People bet their lives on the Subaru when they
> put them in aircraft: somethhing like 2500 are flying, which is a lot.
> How many people fly a small block Chevy? Two I have heard of.
>
> A lot of the old Japanese accessories were no good, but now the ND
> alternators and Sanden compressors are good enough you see them on a
> lot of hot rods. Their carburetors were poor, but who runs a carb
> anymore?
>
> Most Hondas are long lived if not abused but one really good overheat
> is all she wrote. Still, usually they go to the crusher under their
> own power.
>