CB power
#121
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CB power
XS11E wrote:
> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio.
>
>
> No need for you to agree, he's right with or without your agreement!
> ;-)
>
>
>>How is running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>possible"???
>
>
> Because the normal CB mount grounds to the metal of the body through
> the attachment screws as does tne normal antenna mount. To avoid
> ground loops it's necessary to isolate the antenna and radio mount from
> the car body and with some antenna types that's not possible.
>
>
>>You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper
>>way to install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a
>>trouble free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through
>>the cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation
>>method available.
>
>
> At least you're consistently wrong.
>
There's drool on your chin, idiot.
tw
> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio.
>
>
> No need for you to agree, he's right with or without your agreement!
> ;-)
>
>
>>How is running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>possible"???
>
>
> Because the normal CB mount grounds to the metal of the body through
> the attachment screws as does tne normal antenna mount. To avoid
> ground loops it's necessary to isolate the antenna and radio mount from
> the car body and with some antenna types that's not possible.
>
>
>>You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper
>>way to install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a
>>trouble free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through
>>the cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation
>>method available.
>
>
> At least you're consistently wrong.
>
There's drool on your chin, idiot.
tw
#122
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CB power
Frank_v7.0 wrote:
> twaldron wrote:
>
>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>
>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>
>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a portable
>>>>> CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to the CB and
>>>>> the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher socket. It's
>>>>> worked well so far....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way radio.
>>>> You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper way to
>>>> install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a trouble
>>>> free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through the
>>>> cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation method
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> tw
>>>
>>>
>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly don't
>> need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>
>> tw
>
> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine "noise"
> was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I mentioned,
> decent built in noise filtering make the "additional" amount of
> interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or auxiliary
> power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is certainly not
> wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long as it is properly
> fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other point in favor of using
> the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you forget to turn the CB off
> it won't drain your battery overnight.
>
I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
Why not do it right?
Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
power switch.
tw
> twaldron wrote:
>
>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>
>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>
>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a portable
>>>>> CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to the CB and
>>>>> the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher socket. It's
>>>>> worked well so far....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way radio.
>>>> You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper way to
>>>> install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a trouble
>>>> free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through the
>>>> cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation method
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> tw
>>>
>>>
>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly don't
>> need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>
>> tw
>
> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine "noise"
> was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I mentioned,
> decent built in noise filtering make the "additional" amount of
> interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or auxiliary
> power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is certainly not
> wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long as it is properly
> fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other point in favor of using
> the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you forget to turn the CB off
> it won't drain your battery overnight.
>
I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
Why not do it right?
Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
power switch.
tw
#123
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CB power
Frank_v7.0 wrote:
> twaldron wrote:
>
>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>
>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>
>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a portable
>>>>> CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to the CB and
>>>>> the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher socket. It's
>>>>> worked well so far....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way radio.
>>>> You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper way to
>>>> install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a trouble
>>>> free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through the
>>>> cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation method
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> tw
>>>
>>>
>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly don't
>> need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>
>> tw
>
> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine "noise"
> was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I mentioned,
> decent built in noise filtering make the "additional" amount of
> interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or auxiliary
> power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is certainly not
> wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long as it is properly
> fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other point in favor of using
> the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you forget to turn the CB off
> it won't drain your battery overnight.
>
I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
Why not do it right?
Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
power switch.
tw
> twaldron wrote:
>
>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>
>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>
>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a portable
>>>>> CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to the CB and
>>>>> the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher socket. It's
>>>>> worked well so far....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way radio.
>>>> You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper way to
>>>> install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a trouble
>>>> free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through the
>>>> cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation method
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> tw
>>>
>>>
>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly don't
>> need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>
>> tw
>
> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine "noise"
> was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I mentioned,
> decent built in noise filtering make the "additional" amount of
> interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or auxiliary
> power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is certainly not
> wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long as it is properly
> fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other point in favor of using
> the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you forget to turn the CB off
> it won't drain your battery overnight.
>
I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
Why not do it right?
Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
power switch.
tw
#124
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CB power
Frank_v7.0 wrote:
> twaldron wrote:
>
>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>
>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>
>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a portable
>>>>> CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to the CB and
>>>>> the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher socket. It's
>>>>> worked well so far....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way radio.
>>>> You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper way to
>>>> install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a trouble
>>>> free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through the
>>>> cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation method
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> tw
>>>
>>>
>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly don't
>> need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>
>> tw
>
> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine "noise"
> was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I mentioned,
> decent built in noise filtering make the "additional" amount of
> interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or auxiliary
> power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is certainly not
> wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long as it is properly
> fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other point in favor of using
> the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you forget to turn the CB off
> it won't drain your battery overnight.
>
I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
Why not do it right?
Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
power switch.
tw
> twaldron wrote:
>
>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>
>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>
>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a portable
>>>>> CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to the CB and
>>>>> the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher socket. It's
>>>>> worked well so far....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way radio.
>>>> You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper way to
>>>> install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a trouble
>>>> free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through the
>>>> cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation method
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> tw
>>>
>>>
>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly don't
>> need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>
>> tw
>
> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine "noise"
> was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I mentioned,
> decent built in noise filtering make the "additional" amount of
> interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or auxiliary
> power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is certainly not
> wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long as it is properly
> fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other point in favor of using
> the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you forget to turn the CB off
> it won't drain your battery overnight.
>
I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
Why not do it right?
Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
power switch.
tw
#125
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CB power
Frank_v7.0 wrote:
> twaldron wrote:
>
>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>
>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>
>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a portable
>>>>> CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to the CB and
>>>>> the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher socket. It's
>>>>> worked well so far....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way radio.
>>>> You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper way to
>>>> install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a trouble
>>>> free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through the
>>>> cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation method
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> tw
>>>
>>>
>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly don't
>> need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>
>> tw
>
> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine "noise"
> was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I mentioned,
> decent built in noise filtering make the "additional" amount of
> interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or auxiliary
> power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is certainly not
> wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long as it is properly
> fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other point in favor of using
> the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you forget to turn the CB off
> it won't drain your battery overnight.
>
I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
Why not do it right?
Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
power switch.
tw
> twaldron wrote:
>
>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>
>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>
>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a portable
>>>>> CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to the CB and
>>>>> the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher socket. It's
>>>>> worked well so far....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way radio.
>>>> You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper way to
>>>> install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a trouble
>>>> free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through the
>>>> cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation method
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> tw
>>>
>>>
>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly don't
>> need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>
>> tw
>
> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine "noise"
> was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I mentioned,
> decent built in noise filtering make the "additional" amount of
> interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or auxiliary
> power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is certainly not
> wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long as it is properly
> fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other point in favor of using
> the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you forget to turn the CB off
> it won't drain your battery overnight.
>
I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
Why not do it right?
Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
power switch.
tw
#126
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CB power
twaldron wrote:
> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>>
>>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a
>>>>>> portable CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to
>>>>>> the CB and the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher
>>>>>> socket. It's worked well so far....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way
>>>>> radio. You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper
>>>>> way to install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a
>>>>> trouble free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through
>>>>> the cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation
>>>>> method available.
>>>>>
>>>>> tw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly
>>> don't need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>>
>>> tw
>>
>> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
>> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine
>> "noise" was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I
>> mentioned, decent built in noise filtering make the "additional"
>> amount of interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or
>> auxiliary power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is
>> certainly not wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long
>> as it is properly fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other
>> point in favor of using the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you
>> forget to turn the CB off it won't drain your battery overnight.
>>
>
>
> I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
> number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
> in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
> performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
> transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
> manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
> to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
> Why not do it right?
>
> Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
> do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
> It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
> power switch.
>
> tw
Ya got me! "just being lazy" "It's just as simple to train yourself to
turn off the radio at it's own power switch." LOL! For you and me and
perhaps most Jeep drivers, but human nature dictates a lot of dead
batteries. I learned my lesson the hard way. Sitting in a Navajo
County cruiser with a dead battery. Had to call for a jump on my
portable. I got out for lunch and left the "hard wired" radio on. :P
--
FRH
> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>>
>>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a
>>>>>> portable CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to
>>>>>> the CB and the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher
>>>>>> socket. It's worked well so far....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way
>>>>> radio. You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper
>>>>> way to install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a
>>>>> trouble free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through
>>>>> the cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation
>>>>> method available.
>>>>>
>>>>> tw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly
>>> don't need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>>
>>> tw
>>
>> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
>> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine
>> "noise" was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I
>> mentioned, decent built in noise filtering make the "additional"
>> amount of interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or
>> auxiliary power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is
>> certainly not wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long
>> as it is properly fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other
>> point in favor of using the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you
>> forget to turn the CB off it won't drain your battery overnight.
>>
>
>
> I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
> number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
> in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
> performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
> transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
> manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
> to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
> Why not do it right?
>
> Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
> do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
> It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
> power switch.
>
> tw
Ya got me! "just being lazy" "It's just as simple to train yourself to
turn off the radio at it's own power switch." LOL! For you and me and
perhaps most Jeep drivers, but human nature dictates a lot of dead
batteries. I learned my lesson the hard way. Sitting in a Navajo
County cruiser with a dead battery. Had to call for a jump on my
portable. I got out for lunch and left the "hard wired" radio on. :P
--
FRH
#127
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CB power
twaldron wrote:
> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>>
>>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a
>>>>>> portable CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to
>>>>>> the CB and the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher
>>>>>> socket. It's worked well so far....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way
>>>>> radio. You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper
>>>>> way to install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a
>>>>> trouble free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through
>>>>> the cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation
>>>>> method available.
>>>>>
>>>>> tw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly
>>> don't need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>>
>>> tw
>>
>> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
>> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine
>> "noise" was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I
>> mentioned, decent built in noise filtering make the "additional"
>> amount of interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or
>> auxiliary power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is
>> certainly not wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long
>> as it is properly fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other
>> point in favor of using the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you
>> forget to turn the CB off it won't drain your battery overnight.
>>
>
>
> I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
> number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
> in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
> performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
> transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
> manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
> to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
> Why not do it right?
>
> Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
> do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
> It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
> power switch.
>
> tw
Ya got me! "just being lazy" "It's just as simple to train yourself to
turn off the radio at it's own power switch." LOL! For you and me and
perhaps most Jeep drivers, but human nature dictates a lot of dead
batteries. I learned my lesson the hard way. Sitting in a Navajo
County cruiser with a dead battery. Had to call for a jump on my
portable. I got out for lunch and left the "hard wired" radio on. :P
--
FRH
> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>>
>>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a
>>>>>> portable CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to
>>>>>> the CB and the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher
>>>>>> socket. It's worked well so far....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way
>>>>> radio. You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper
>>>>> way to install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a
>>>>> trouble free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through
>>>>> the cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation
>>>>> method available.
>>>>>
>>>>> tw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly
>>> don't need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>>
>>> tw
>>
>> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
>> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine
>> "noise" was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I
>> mentioned, decent built in noise filtering make the "additional"
>> amount of interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or
>> auxiliary power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is
>> certainly not wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long
>> as it is properly fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other
>> point in favor of using the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you
>> forget to turn the CB off it won't drain your battery overnight.
>>
>
>
> I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
> number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
> in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
> performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
> transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
> manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
> to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
> Why not do it right?
>
> Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
> do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
> It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
> power switch.
>
> tw
Ya got me! "just being lazy" "It's just as simple to train yourself to
turn off the radio at it's own power switch." LOL! For you and me and
perhaps most Jeep drivers, but human nature dictates a lot of dead
batteries. I learned my lesson the hard way. Sitting in a Navajo
County cruiser with a dead battery. Had to call for a jump on my
portable. I got out for lunch and left the "hard wired" radio on. :P
--
FRH
#128
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CB power
twaldron wrote:
> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>>
>>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a
>>>>>> portable CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to
>>>>>> the CB and the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher
>>>>>> socket. It's worked well so far....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way
>>>>> radio. You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper
>>>>> way to install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a
>>>>> trouble free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through
>>>>> the cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation
>>>>> method available.
>>>>>
>>>>> tw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly
>>> don't need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>>
>>> tw
>>
>> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
>> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine
>> "noise" was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I
>> mentioned, decent built in noise filtering make the "additional"
>> amount of interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or
>> auxiliary power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is
>> certainly not wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long
>> as it is properly fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other
>> point in favor of using the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you
>> forget to turn the CB off it won't drain your battery overnight.
>>
>
>
> I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
> number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
> in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
> performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
> transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
> manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
> to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
> Why not do it right?
>
> Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
> do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
> It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
> power switch.
>
> tw
Ya got me! "just being lazy" "It's just as simple to train yourself to
turn off the radio at it's own power switch." LOL! For you and me and
perhaps most Jeep drivers, but human nature dictates a lot of dead
batteries. I learned my lesson the hard way. Sitting in a Navajo
County cruiser with a dead battery. Had to call for a jump on my
portable. I got out for lunch and left the "hard wired" radio on. :P
--
FRH
> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>>
>>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a
>>>>>> portable CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to
>>>>>> the CB and the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher
>>>>>> socket. It's worked well so far....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way
>>>>> radio. You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper
>>>>> way to install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a
>>>>> trouble free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through
>>>>> the cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation
>>>>> method available.
>>>>>
>>>>> tw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly
>>> don't need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>>
>>> tw
>>
>> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
>> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine
>> "noise" was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I
>> mentioned, decent built in noise filtering make the "additional"
>> amount of interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or
>> auxiliary power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is
>> certainly not wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long
>> as it is properly fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other
>> point in favor of using the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you
>> forget to turn the CB off it won't drain your battery overnight.
>>
>
>
> I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
> number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
> in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
> performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
> transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
> manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
> to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
> Why not do it right?
>
> Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
> do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
> It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
> power switch.
>
> tw
Ya got me! "just being lazy" "It's just as simple to train yourself to
turn off the radio at it's own power switch." LOL! For you and me and
perhaps most Jeep drivers, but human nature dictates a lot of dead
batteries. I learned my lesson the hard way. Sitting in a Navajo
County cruiser with a dead battery. Had to call for a jump on my
portable. I got out for lunch and left the "hard wired" radio on. :P
--
FRH
#129
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CB power
twaldron wrote:
> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>>
>>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a
>>>>>> portable CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to
>>>>>> the CB and the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher
>>>>>> socket. It's worked well so far....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way
>>>>> radio. You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper
>>>>> way to install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a
>>>>> trouble free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through
>>>>> the cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation
>>>>> method available.
>>>>>
>>>>> tw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly
>>> don't need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>>
>>> tw
>>
>> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
>> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine
>> "noise" was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I
>> mentioned, decent built in noise filtering make the "additional"
>> amount of interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or
>> auxiliary power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is
>> certainly not wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long
>> as it is properly fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other
>> point in favor of using the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you
>> forget to turn the CB off it won't drain your battery overnight.
>>
>
>
> I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
> number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
> in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
> performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
> transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
> manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
> to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
> Why not do it right?
>
> Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
> do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
> It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
> power switch.
>
> tw
Ya got me! "just being lazy" "It's just as simple to train yourself to
turn off the radio at it's own power switch." LOL! For you and me and
perhaps most Jeep drivers, but human nature dictates a lot of dead
batteries. I learned my lesson the hard way. Sitting in a Navajo
County cruiser with a dead battery. Had to call for a jump on my
portable. I got out for lunch and left the "hard wired" radio on. :P
--
FRH
> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>
>> twaldron wrote:
>>
>>> Frank_v7.0 wrote:
>>>
>>>> twaldron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> twaldron <dude@hairsproutingbunions.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DougW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but where?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the frame bolt where the battery - attaches. There is
>>>>>>>>>>>> usually enough thread on that to put on another bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Attaching at the NEG(-) battery terminal performs
>>>>>>>>>>> the same function as running more lead to the block where the
>>>>>>>>>>> battery grounds.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because Jeeps have had problems in the past with ground loops
>>>>>>>>>> causing CB noise. It might be worthwhile to consult with a
>>>>>>>>>> local CB shop it there's one available.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you are attaching at the battery, how do you get a ground
>>>>>>>>> loop?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Between the CB and the antenna.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then your radio or antenna or both are improperly installed. Run
>>>>>>> both leads directly to the battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not normally possible, read Bill Spiliotopoulos' post in this thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, running both leads directly to the battery is also incorrect,
>>>>>> proper installation is to isolate the CB from anything metal,
>>>>>> isolate the antenna from anything metal, run the antenna ground to
>>>>>> the CB and both power and ground from the CB to the battery. This
>>>>>> eliminates ground loops but requires some engineering as most
>>>>>> antennas will ground through the mount most CB mounts will ground
>>>>>> to the body in a typical installation. In almost all cars and
>>>>>> trucks this works fine, in Jeeps (at least the older Wagoneers and
>>>>>> Cherokees) it seems to create noise, don't know why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never had any problems in any vehicle because I use a
>>>>>> portable CB with a magnetic antenna. The antenna grounds only to
>>>>>> the CB and the CB is powered by and grounded to the ligher
>>>>>> socket. It's worked well so far....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea WHAT you are talking about, and I don't agree with
>>>>> Bill S's post as far has how to mount a two-way radio. How is
>>>>> running both leads directly to the battery "not normally
>>>>> possible"??? It is the ONLY correct way to wire in a two way
>>>>> radio. You guys are posting misinformation. Please read the proper
>>>>> way to install a two-way radio before posting so Nathan can have a
>>>>> trouble free installation. BTW, powering a two-way radio through
>>>>> the cigaretter lighter port is the worst possible installation
>>>>> method available.
>>>>>
>>>>> tw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For a Ham rig or a commercial two way I agree, but a CB draws a lot
>>>> less power than those applications and the high end audio equipment
>>>> that you "hear" out on the street today. A lighter plug power source
>>>> for those high draw applications would be ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, they don't need as high a gauge of wire, but they certainly
>>> don't need the interference a cigarette lighter port will introduce.
>>>
>>> tw
>>
>> No problem, high = heavy:-) Most "modern" quality CB's have excellent
>> internal filter circuits. In the "early" days, ie; 70's, engine
>> "noise" was the source of most interference. Resistor plugs and, as I
>> mentioned, decent built in noise filtering make the "additional"
>> amount of interference picked up through use of the lighter plug or
>> auxiliary power plug hard to quantify. Having said all that, it is
>> certainly not wrong to use a direct battery to CB connection as long
>> as it is properly fused with sufficient wire gauge. And one other
>> point in favor of using the lighter plug as a CB power source, if you
>> forget to turn the CB off it won't drain your battery overnight.
>>
>
>
> I didn't want anyone to confuse the "high" with a higher wire gauge
> number. While I can see the temptation to cut corners and just plug it
> in to the lighter socket, you're not _benefiting_ your setup's
> performance in any way, just being lazy. CBs are low quality
> transceivers and need all the help they can get. While most CB
> manufacturers do use simple noise filtration circuitry, it is still best
> to run directly to the clean power source and the was the OP's question.
> Why not do it right?
>
> Not all cig. sockets turn off with the key, but even using the ones that
> do, in order to use the radio, you have to turn the key to accessory.
> It's just as simple to train yourself to turn off the radio at it's own
> power switch.
>
> tw
Ya got me! "just being lazy" "It's just as simple to train yourself to
turn off the radio at it's own power switch." LOL! For you and me and
perhaps most Jeep drivers, but human nature dictates a lot of dead
batteries. I learned my lesson the hard way. Sitting in a Navajo
County cruiser with a dead battery. Had to call for a jump on my
portable. I got out for lunch and left the "hard wired" radio on. :P
--
FRH
#130
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: CB power
Nathan Otis wrote:
>
> Hey fellas. I'm wiring a new CB tomorrow and I want to do it right. I
> can't find the exact answer I'm looking for on the All Seeing Eye, so
> here I am.
>
> When wiring power, I understand it's best to go to the source (battery).
> What I don't know is...
>
> 1. Should BOTH the red AND black wire be connected to the battery @ pos
> and neg terminals respectively?
>
> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground, but where?
>
> 2a. Should I ground in the engine compartment or...
>
> 2b. Is it best to make the ground wire as short as possible (i.e.,
> shorten the black wire to around a foot or two and ground in the cab)?
>
>
> Thanks.
> n.
I am a bit late likely, was out Jeeping and camping for ten days.
There are DC booklets out there if you ask at the dealer. GM has
had this booklet out for years:
http://service.gm.com/techlineinfo/radio.html
I did one contract for 9 years installing and servicing transmitter
systems in a fleet of 200 delivery vehicles.
You 'really' need to stay away from the electrical system of the vehicle
and run two fused lines directly to the battery for the transmitter like
the GM booklet states. (some GM's have a nice power tap
there, Jeeps don't)
If you use any of the vehicle's electrics, the vehicle warranty is void
for GM's.
For a GM system you 'must' use 10 ga. wiring minimum for these power
leads in order to not void the vehicle's warranty so I use twisted 10
ga. with the built in silk string cardboard condenser on all of them.
(Type SJOW or SOW was recommended to me by Ericsson who made the
transmitters I was installing, so I used it and never had RF issues.)
Fusing the negative line is very important because if the vehicle loses
a ground for whatever reason. it can/will pull one through the
transmitter and let the magic smoke out of the transmitter big time.
The routing of the wiring needs to be on the opposite side of the
vehicle from the vehicle's harness and computer and should only cross it
at right angles if you 'have' to cross over other wires. It is better
to route the wire out to the front and cross the front top of the rad's
brace then come back to the battery rather than run across the firewall
where the rest of the wires run if you have to cross from side to side.
(GM makes special note of this)
If you get the wiring too close to any vehicle systems, strange things
happen like the ABS module fails, digital dashes go insane and in a TJ
auto, as was reported on this group a while back, the tranny can jump to
neutral every time you key up.
Hope this helps,
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Hey fellas. I'm wiring a new CB tomorrow and I want to do it right. I
> can't find the exact answer I'm looking for on the All Seeing Eye, so
> here I am.
>
> When wiring power, I understand it's best to go to the source (battery).
> What I don't know is...
>
> 1. Should BOTH the red AND black wire be connected to the battery @ pos
> and neg terminals respectively?
>
> 2. If not, then the black wire should be attached to ground, but where?
>
> 2a. Should I ground in the engine compartment or...
>
> 2b. Is it best to make the ground wire as short as possible (i.e.,
> shorten the black wire to around a foot or two and ground in the cab)?
>
>
> Thanks.
> n.
I am a bit late likely, was out Jeeping and camping for ten days.
There are DC booklets out there if you ask at the dealer. GM has
had this booklet out for years:
http://service.gm.com/techlineinfo/radio.html
I did one contract for 9 years installing and servicing transmitter
systems in a fleet of 200 delivery vehicles.
You 'really' need to stay away from the electrical system of the vehicle
and run two fused lines directly to the battery for the transmitter like
the GM booklet states. (some GM's have a nice power tap
there, Jeeps don't)
If you use any of the vehicle's electrics, the vehicle warranty is void
for GM's.
For a GM system you 'must' use 10 ga. wiring minimum for these power
leads in order to not void the vehicle's warranty so I use twisted 10
ga. with the built in silk string cardboard condenser on all of them.
(Type SJOW or SOW was recommended to me by Ericsson who made the
transmitters I was installing, so I used it and never had RF issues.)
Fusing the negative line is very important because if the vehicle loses
a ground for whatever reason. it can/will pull one through the
transmitter and let the magic smoke out of the transmitter big time.
The routing of the wiring needs to be on the opposite side of the
vehicle from the vehicle's harness and computer and should only cross it
at right angles if you 'have' to cross over other wires. It is better
to route the wire out to the front and cross the front top of the rad's
brace then come back to the battery rather than run across the firewall
where the rest of the wires run if you have to cross from side to side.
(GM makes special note of this)
If you get the wiring too close to any vehicle systems, strange things
happen like the ABS module fails, digital dashes go insane and in a TJ
auto, as was reported on this group a while back, the tranny can jump to
neutral every time you key up.
Hope this helps,
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)