A case of death wobble today
02-20-2004, 10:41 PM
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A case of death wobble today
I will get under it and closely investigate everything in the morning. I'm
going to do Jeff's tests and also attach the steering stabilizer onto the
tie rod instead of the drag link. I sure hope moving it will correct the
problem. First glance the stabilizer appears to still be good. I can't
imagine there are any loose or worn out parts already on the front-end,
being that everything is practically new. But of course stranger things
have happened.
You are right. DW is nothing to take lightly. It gets the pucker factor up
in a hurry!
Terry.
"Roy J" <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message
news:h5AZb.206$uJ.68665@news.uswest.net...
> A steering stablizier on the drag link doesn't do all that much
> good. DW is where the two tires start oscillating between them
> selves, the tie rod is the connecting link.
>
> Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>
> > It very well might be the steering stabilizer because everything else on
the
> > front is new. All the steering components and entire front end is new
and
> > tight and only has about 3,000 miles. Ball joints, tie rod & ends, drag
> > link & ends, and steering arms are all new, freshly lubed and tight. I
just
> > put a Dynatrac D60 up front in October.
> >
> > I'll do the test you suggest anyway tonight and see what happens. I'll
have
> > the caster checked too at one of these local garages and shim it up if
> > needed. I removed the track bar for now but still got the DW in that
same
> > damn bump again so I know it wasn't the track bar as first thought. If
she
> > passes the ball joint and tie rod tests then I'll focus on the old
steering
> > stabilizer. The stabilizer is currently mounted from the frame to the
drag
> > link. One fellow today suggested moving the mount to the tie rod
instead
> > since it is "closer" to the steering.
> >
> > Thanks for all the comments and info.
> >
> > Terry
> > 92YJ
> >
> >
> >
> > "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:103cffo5nl9i178@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >>"Roy J" <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message
> >>news:ttpZb.6$DV3.10262@news.uswest.net...
> >>Bill, Ya gotta quit suggesting "replace steering stabilzier" for
> >>every case of DW. Sure, replacing it might fix the problem for a
> >>while but the underlying condition will just get worse, make the
> >>NEXT DW more serious. The OP has a loose track bar and wants to
> >>REMOVE it? I'll make bets that he also has a loose ball joint or
> >>tie rod end. The '92 YJ has 12 years on it, about due for some
> >>front end work.
> >>
> >>
> >>I'll second that diagnosis.
> >>
> >>I have a leaf spring suspension, and I have no trackbar and no DW
> >>experiences. I am about due for some DW though because I suspect the
ball
> >>joints are worn and I know the tie rods are near end-life.
> >>
> >>DW is caused because one tire gets pushed off of straight ahead, and it
> >>takes a while for the other tire to aim itself in the same direction.
> >
> > During
> >
> >>the delay, the first tire regains its composure and starts looking for
the
> >>front again, in the mean time the other tire has cought up to where the
> >>first tire was a second ago but isn't anymore. The second tire then
heads
> >>back to the front, but the first tire is not there anymore because it
has
> >>decided to go to where the other tire just left. Things spiral downward
> >
> > from
> >
> >>there.
> >>
> >>Caster Angle plays a large role in DW, but caster is not adjustable in a
> >>leaf spring front end. (Yes, caster can be adjusted by shims, but the
idea
> >>is that the axle builder sets the caster angle by the way it positions
the
> >>spring perches, and the angle normally does not require adjustment as
much
> >>as it might in a coil spring set up.) I suspect the caster angle on your
> >
> > YJ
> >
> >>is probably fine, so it is time to move on to some of the other issues.
> >
> > Ball
> >
> >>joints and tie rods should be checked. The Lower Ball Joint is the one
> >
> > that
> >
> >>you will most likely need to replace, and you should give serious
> >>consideration to replacing both of them even if only one passes the test
> >
> > for
> >
> >>a failure item. To test for failure, raise the front tire off the ground
> >
> > and
> >
> >>1.) try to move it by pushing and pulling at the top and the bottom, and
> >
> > 2.)
> >
> >>use a lever to lift the tire. The tire under test ought not move in
either
> >>of these tests. You need a buddy to GENTLY turn the steering wheel back
> >
> > and
> >
> >>forth as you look at each tie rod end. There should be no play in the
tie
> >>rod ends.
> >>
> >>If the tires (both) pass both of the ball joint tests and all of the tie
> >
> > rod
> >
> >>ends pass the tie rod tests, THEN you can get away with replacing the
> >>steering stabalizer as the only repair activity. If any of the ball
joints
> >>or tie rods fail its respective test, then replace all like-parts and
the
> >>steering stabalizer. In the case of the ball joints, it is only
necessary
> >>(MOST OF THE TIME) to replace the lower ball joints. The upper ball
joints
> >>don't carry any weight, so they do not go out very often.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
going to do Jeff's tests and also attach the steering stabilizer onto the
tie rod instead of the drag link. I sure hope moving it will correct the
problem. First glance the stabilizer appears to still be good. I can't
imagine there are any loose or worn out parts already on the front-end,
being that everything is practically new. But of course stranger things
have happened.
You are right. DW is nothing to take lightly. It gets the pucker factor up
in a hurry!
Terry.
"Roy J" <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message
news:h5AZb.206$uJ.68665@news.uswest.net...
> A steering stablizier on the drag link doesn't do all that much
> good. DW is where the two tires start oscillating between them
> selves, the tie rod is the connecting link.
>
> Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>
> > It very well might be the steering stabilizer because everything else on
the
> > front is new. All the steering components and entire front end is new
and
> > tight and only has about 3,000 miles. Ball joints, tie rod & ends, drag
> > link & ends, and steering arms are all new, freshly lubed and tight. I
just
> > put a Dynatrac D60 up front in October.
> >
> > I'll do the test you suggest anyway tonight and see what happens. I'll
have
> > the caster checked too at one of these local garages and shim it up if
> > needed. I removed the track bar for now but still got the DW in that
same
> > damn bump again so I know it wasn't the track bar as first thought. If
she
> > passes the ball joint and tie rod tests then I'll focus on the old
steering
> > stabilizer. The stabilizer is currently mounted from the frame to the
drag
> > link. One fellow today suggested moving the mount to the tie rod
instead
> > since it is "closer" to the steering.
> >
> > Thanks for all the comments and info.
> >
> > Terry
> > 92YJ
> >
> >
> >
> > "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:103cffo5nl9i178@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >>"Roy J" <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message
> >>news:ttpZb.6$DV3.10262@news.uswest.net...
> >>Bill, Ya gotta quit suggesting "replace steering stabilzier" for
> >>every case of DW. Sure, replacing it might fix the problem for a
> >>while but the underlying condition will just get worse, make the
> >>NEXT DW more serious. The OP has a loose track bar and wants to
> >>REMOVE it? I'll make bets that he also has a loose ball joint or
> >>tie rod end. The '92 YJ has 12 years on it, about due for some
> >>front end work.
> >>
> >>
> >>I'll second that diagnosis.
> >>
> >>I have a leaf spring suspension, and I have no trackbar and no DW
> >>experiences. I am about due for some DW though because I suspect the
ball
> >>joints are worn and I know the tie rods are near end-life.
> >>
> >>DW is caused because one tire gets pushed off of straight ahead, and it
> >>takes a while for the other tire to aim itself in the same direction.
> >
> > During
> >
> >>the delay, the first tire regains its composure and starts looking for
the
> >>front again, in the mean time the other tire has cought up to where the
> >>first tire was a second ago but isn't anymore. The second tire then
heads
> >>back to the front, but the first tire is not there anymore because it
has
> >>decided to go to where the other tire just left. Things spiral downward
> >
> > from
> >
> >>there.
> >>
> >>Caster Angle plays a large role in DW, but caster is not adjustable in a
> >>leaf spring front end. (Yes, caster can be adjusted by shims, but the
idea
> >>is that the axle builder sets the caster angle by the way it positions
the
> >>spring perches, and the angle normally does not require adjustment as
much
> >>as it might in a coil spring set up.) I suspect the caster angle on your
> >
> > YJ
> >
> >>is probably fine, so it is time to move on to some of the other issues.
> >
> > Ball
> >
> >>joints and tie rods should be checked. The Lower Ball Joint is the one
> >
> > that
> >
> >>you will most likely need to replace, and you should give serious
> >>consideration to replacing both of them even if only one passes the test
> >
> > for
> >
> >>a failure item. To test for failure, raise the front tire off the ground
> >
> > and
> >
> >>1.) try to move it by pushing and pulling at the top and the bottom, and
> >
> > 2.)
> >
> >>use a lever to lift the tire. The tire under test ought not move in
either
> >>of these tests. You need a buddy to GENTLY turn the steering wheel back
> >
> > and
> >
> >>forth as you look at each tie rod end. There should be no play in the
tie
> >>rod ends.
> >>
> >>If the tires (both) pass both of the ball joint tests and all of the tie
> >
> > rod
> >
> >>ends pass the tie rod tests, THEN you can get away with replacing the
> >>steering stabalizer as the only repair activity. If any of the ball
joints
> >>or tie rods fail its respective test, then replace all like-parts and
the
> >>steering stabalizer. In the case of the ball joints, it is only
necessary
> >>(MOST OF THE TIME) to replace the lower ball joints. The upper ball
joints
> >>don't carry any weight, so they do not go out very often.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
02-20-2004, 11:50 PM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A case of death wobble today
Hi Terry,
I'll bet the stabilizer's not good though, take it off and shack it
and you'll hear the air pocket that indicates oil has leak out and left
probable about an inch of very bouncy, travel. Leave one stabilizer in
the stock position as that's the last defense your steering box has.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>
> I will get under it and closely investigate everything in the morning. I'm
> going to do Jeff's tests and also attach the steering stabilizer onto the
> tie rod instead of the drag link. I sure hope moving it will correct the
> problem. First glance the stabilizer appears to still be good. I can't
> imagine there are any loose or worn out parts already on the front-end,
> being that everything is practically new. But of course stranger things
> have happened.
>
> You are right. DW is nothing to take lightly. It gets the pucker factor up
> in a hurry!
>
> Terry.
I'll bet the stabilizer's not good though, take it off and shack it
and you'll hear the air pocket that indicates oil has leak out and left
probable about an inch of very bouncy, travel. Leave one stabilizer in
the stock position as that's the last defense your steering box has.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>
> I will get under it and closely investigate everything in the morning. I'm
> going to do Jeff's tests and also attach the steering stabilizer onto the
> tie rod instead of the drag link. I sure hope moving it will correct the
> problem. First glance the stabilizer appears to still be good. I can't
> imagine there are any loose or worn out parts already on the front-end,
> being that everything is practically new. But of course stranger things
> have happened.
>
> You are right. DW is nothing to take lightly. It gets the pucker factor up
> in a hurry!
>
> Terry.
02-20-2004, 11:50 PM
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A case of death wobble today
Hi Terry,
I'll bet the stabilizer's not good though, take it off and shack it
and you'll hear the air pocket that indicates oil has leak out and left
probable about an inch of very bouncy, travel. Leave one stabilizer in
the stock position as that's the last defense your steering box has.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>
> I will get under it and closely investigate everything in the morning. I'm
> going to do Jeff's tests and also attach the steering stabilizer onto the
> tie rod instead of the drag link. I sure hope moving it will correct the
> problem. First glance the stabilizer appears to still be good. I can't
> imagine there are any loose or worn out parts already on the front-end,
> being that everything is practically new. But of course stranger things
> have happened.
>
> You are right. DW is nothing to take lightly. It gets the pucker factor up
> in a hurry!
>
> Terry.
I'll bet the stabilizer's not good though, take it off and shack it
and you'll hear the air pocket that indicates oil has leak out and left
probable about an inch of very bouncy, travel. Leave one stabilizer in
the stock position as that's the last defense your steering box has.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>
> I will get under it and closely investigate everything in the morning. I'm
> going to do Jeff's tests and also attach the steering stabilizer onto the
> tie rod instead of the drag link. I sure hope moving it will correct the
> problem. First glance the stabilizer appears to still be good. I can't
> imagine there are any loose or worn out parts already on the front-end,
> being that everything is practically new. But of course stranger things
> have happened.
>
> You are right. DW is nothing to take lightly. It gets the pucker factor up
> in a hurry!
>
> Terry.
02-20-2004, 11:50 PM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A case of death wobble today
Hi Terry,
I'll bet the stabilizer's not good though, take it off and shack it
and you'll hear the air pocket that indicates oil has leak out and left
probable about an inch of very bouncy, travel. Leave one stabilizer in
the stock position as that's the last defense your steering box has.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>
> I will get under it and closely investigate everything in the morning. I'm
> going to do Jeff's tests and also attach the steering stabilizer onto the
> tie rod instead of the drag link. I sure hope moving it will correct the
> problem. First glance the stabilizer appears to still be good. I can't
> imagine there are any loose or worn out parts already on the front-end,
> being that everything is practically new. But of course stranger things
> have happened.
>
> You are right. DW is nothing to take lightly. It gets the pucker factor up
> in a hurry!
>
> Terry.
I'll bet the stabilizer's not good though, take it off and shack it
and you'll hear the air pocket that indicates oil has leak out and left
probable about an inch of very bouncy, travel. Leave one stabilizer in
the stock position as that's the last defense your steering box has.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Terry Jeffrey wrote:
>
> I will get under it and closely investigate everything in the morning. I'm
> going to do Jeff's tests and also attach the steering stabilizer onto the
> tie rod instead of the drag link. I sure hope moving it will correct the
> problem. First glance the stabilizer appears to still be good. I can't
> imagine there are any loose or worn out parts already on the front-end,
> being that everything is practically new. But of course stranger things
> have happened.
>
> You are right. DW is nothing to take lightly. It gets the pucker factor up
> in a hurry!
>
> Terry.
02-20-2004, 11:52 PM
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A case of death wobble today
Believe what you want, as I take your opinion for what it's worth.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Roy J wrote:
>
> Quit trying to wiggle out of the fact that you give a flippant
> answer to the orignal question that could have gotten the OP in
> serious trouble. What I thought or knew was immaterial.
>
> If you wish to continue this "discussion" in this public forum
> you may. I will continue to repond that your original reply was
> incomplete and could have gotten the OP in trouble.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Roy J wrote:
>
> Quit trying to wiggle out of the fact that you give a flippant
> answer to the orignal question that could have gotten the OP in
> serious trouble. What I thought or knew was immaterial.
>
> If you wish to continue this "discussion" in this public forum
> you may. I will continue to repond that your original reply was
> incomplete and could have gotten the OP in trouble.
02-20-2004, 11:52 PM
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A case of death wobble today
Believe what you want, as I take your opinion for what it's worth.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Roy J wrote:
>
> Quit trying to wiggle out of the fact that you give a flippant
> answer to the orignal question that could have gotten the OP in
> serious trouble. What I thought or knew was immaterial.
>
> If you wish to continue this "discussion" in this public forum
> you may. I will continue to repond that your original reply was
> incomplete and could have gotten the OP in trouble.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Roy J wrote:
>
> Quit trying to wiggle out of the fact that you give a flippant
> answer to the orignal question that could have gotten the OP in
> serious trouble. What I thought or knew was immaterial.
>
> If you wish to continue this "discussion" in this public forum
> you may. I will continue to repond that your original reply was
> incomplete and could have gotten the OP in trouble.
02-20-2004, 11:52 PM
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A case of death wobble today
Believe what you want, as I take your opinion for what it's worth.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Roy J wrote:
>
> Quit trying to wiggle out of the fact that you give a flippant
> answer to the orignal question that could have gotten the OP in
> serious trouble. What I thought or knew was immaterial.
>
> If you wish to continue this "discussion" in this public forum
> you may. I will continue to repond that your original reply was
> incomplete and could have gotten the OP in trouble.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Roy J wrote:
>
> Quit trying to wiggle out of the fact that you give a flippant
> answer to the orignal question that could have gotten the OP in
> serious trouble. What I thought or knew was immaterial.
>
> If you wish to continue this "discussion" in this public forum
> you may. I will continue to repond that your original reply was
> incomplete and could have gotten the OP in trouble.
02-21-2004, 04:51 AM
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A case of death wobble today
As a mechanic by trade, I also know that unless I'm about to throw
the blocks to the customer, not to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jerry Newton wrote:
>
> Bill, as a "seasoned" mechanic, I certainly expect that you should know the
> mechanic's creedo: Assume Nothing. I am with Roy on this one.
>
> Jerry
the blocks to the customer, not to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jerry Newton wrote:
>
> Bill, as a "seasoned" mechanic, I certainly expect that you should know the
> mechanic's creedo: Assume Nothing. I am with Roy on this one.
>
> Jerry
02-21-2004, 04:51 AM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A case of death wobble today
As a mechanic by trade, I also know that unless I'm about to throw
the blocks to the customer, not to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jerry Newton wrote:
>
> Bill, as a "seasoned" mechanic, I certainly expect that you should know the
> mechanic's creedo: Assume Nothing. I am with Roy on this one.
>
> Jerry
the blocks to the customer, not to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jerry Newton wrote:
>
> Bill, as a "seasoned" mechanic, I certainly expect that you should know the
> mechanic's creedo: Assume Nothing. I am with Roy on this one.
>
> Jerry
02-21-2004, 04:51 AM
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: A case of death wobble today
As a mechanic by trade, I also know that unless I'm about to throw
the blocks to the customer, not to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jerry Newton wrote:
>
> Bill, as a "seasoned" mechanic, I certainly expect that you should know the
> mechanic's creedo: Assume Nothing. I am with Roy on this one.
>
> Jerry
the blocks to the customer, not to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jerry Newton wrote:
>
> Bill, as a "seasoned" mechanic, I certainly expect that you should know the
> mechanic's creedo: Assume Nothing. I am with Roy on this one.
>
> Jerry