Bumper-mounted trailer hitch bracket for Jeep Wrangler TJ
#231
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bumper-mounted trailer hitch bracket for Jeep Wrangler TJ
Yes the frame of a Real Jeep is engineered like a commercial truck,
using all channel frame and rivets for full flexibility, like a
commerical truck: http://www.----------.com/kenworthframe.jpg And of
uses struts to reniforce the hitch area:
http://www.----------.com/CJ2Frame2.jpg For a clean look:
http://www.----------.com/temp/46JeepRear.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Nobody will claim you need 1/2" steel for your hitch. However, engineering
> is usually about designing in safety margins to ensure people don't get
> hurt. Your tyres are engineered to take a much greater load than is applied
> by your Jeep, for example.
>
> So the rest is philosophy ; given it won't fall off in an ideal situation -
> how much of a safety margin are you prepared to begrudgingly spend your
> cents on ? I guess the answer is "less than anyone else".
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> "Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9759AEC046009someconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> > I am an engineer.
> >
> > I define engineering as the economical application of scientific
> > knowledge to a physical application.
> >
> > To "plan for the worse" is not engineering, if the worst is not worth
> > planning for.
using all channel frame and rivets for full flexibility, like a
commerical truck: http://www.----------.com/kenworthframe.jpg And of
uses struts to reniforce the hitch area:
http://www.----------.com/CJ2Frame2.jpg For a clean look:
http://www.----------.com/temp/46JeepRear.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Nobody will claim you need 1/2" steel for your hitch. However, engineering
> is usually about designing in safety margins to ensure people don't get
> hurt. Your tyres are engineered to take a much greater load than is applied
> by your Jeep, for example.
>
> So the rest is philosophy ; given it won't fall off in an ideal situation -
> how much of a safety margin are you prepared to begrudgingly spend your
> cents on ? I guess the answer is "less than anyone else".
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> "Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9759AEC046009someconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> > I am an engineer.
> >
> > I define engineering as the economical application of scientific
> > knowledge to a physical application.
> >
> > To "plan for the worse" is not engineering, if the worst is not worth
> > planning for.
#232
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bumper-mounted trailer hitch bracket for Jeep Wrangler TJ
Yes the frame of a Real Jeep is engineered like a commercial truck,
using all channel frame and rivets for full flexibility, like a
commerical truck: http://www.----------.com/kenworthframe.jpg And of
uses struts to reniforce the hitch area:
http://www.----------.com/CJ2Frame2.jpg For a clean look:
http://www.----------.com/temp/46JeepRear.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Nobody will claim you need 1/2" steel for your hitch. However, engineering
> is usually about designing in safety margins to ensure people don't get
> hurt. Your tyres are engineered to take a much greater load than is applied
> by your Jeep, for example.
>
> So the rest is philosophy ; given it won't fall off in an ideal situation -
> how much of a safety margin are you prepared to begrudgingly spend your
> cents on ? I guess the answer is "less than anyone else".
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> "Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9759AEC046009someconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> > I am an engineer.
> >
> > I define engineering as the economical application of scientific
> > knowledge to a physical application.
> >
> > To "plan for the worse" is not engineering, if the worst is not worth
> > planning for.
using all channel frame and rivets for full flexibility, like a
commerical truck: http://www.----------.com/kenworthframe.jpg And of
uses struts to reniforce the hitch area:
http://www.----------.com/CJ2Frame2.jpg For a clean look:
http://www.----------.com/temp/46JeepRear.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Nobody will claim you need 1/2" steel for your hitch. However, engineering
> is usually about designing in safety margins to ensure people don't get
> hurt. Your tyres are engineered to take a much greater load than is applied
> by your Jeep, for example.
>
> So the rest is philosophy ; given it won't fall off in an ideal situation -
> how much of a safety margin are you prepared to begrudgingly spend your
> cents on ? I guess the answer is "less than anyone else".
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> "Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9759AEC046009someconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> > I am an engineer.
> >
> > I define engineering as the economical application of scientific
> > knowledge to a physical application.
> >
> > To "plan for the worse" is not engineering, if the worst is not worth
> > planning for.
#233
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bumper-mounted trailer hitch bracket for Jeep Wrangler TJ
Bruce L. Bergman writes:
> They figure how fast everyone was going, do the math on
> the forces involved on the bumper in the accident, and prove that the
> weak link was the hitch that let go. They can prove that a properly
> designed hitch would have held under 2X to 4X (or more) of the forces
> involved in that incident - so whoever made that hitch is at fault.
Baloney.
The (Florida) law requires a hitch to be of "sufficient strength to pull
all weight towed thereby". There is no "proper design" beyond that. The
performance in a *collision* is of no legal significance. The liability is
strictly with the at-fault driver(s).
By your "proper design" theory, you could be sued for driving a Hyundai
instead of a Humvee. It's your fault you got hurt riding in a tinfoil car,
not that somebody rear-ended you.
You can beef up your vehicle to take a meteorite hit, but it will be no
more or less liability in a collision.
> They figure how fast everyone was going, do the math on
> the forces involved on the bumper in the accident, and prove that the
> weak link was the hitch that let go. They can prove that a properly
> designed hitch would have held under 2X to 4X (or more) of the forces
> involved in that incident - so whoever made that hitch is at fault.
Baloney.
The (Florida) law requires a hitch to be of "sufficient strength to pull
all weight towed thereby". There is no "proper design" beyond that. The
performance in a *collision* is of no legal significance. The liability is
strictly with the at-fault driver(s).
By your "proper design" theory, you could be sued for driving a Hyundai
instead of a Humvee. It's your fault you got hurt riding in a tinfoil car,
not that somebody rear-ended you.
You can beef up your vehicle to take a meteorite hit, but it will be no
more or less liability in a collision.
#234
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bumper-mounted trailer hitch bracket for Jeep Wrangler TJ
Bruce L. Bergman writes:
> They figure how fast everyone was going, do the math on
> the forces involved on the bumper in the accident, and prove that the
> weak link was the hitch that let go. They can prove that a properly
> designed hitch would have held under 2X to 4X (or more) of the forces
> involved in that incident - so whoever made that hitch is at fault.
Baloney.
The (Florida) law requires a hitch to be of "sufficient strength to pull
all weight towed thereby". There is no "proper design" beyond that. The
performance in a *collision* is of no legal significance. The liability is
strictly with the at-fault driver(s).
By your "proper design" theory, you could be sued for driving a Hyundai
instead of a Humvee. It's your fault you got hurt riding in a tinfoil car,
not that somebody rear-ended you.
You can beef up your vehicle to take a meteorite hit, but it will be no
more or less liability in a collision.
> They figure how fast everyone was going, do the math on
> the forces involved on the bumper in the accident, and prove that the
> weak link was the hitch that let go. They can prove that a properly
> designed hitch would have held under 2X to 4X (or more) of the forces
> involved in that incident - so whoever made that hitch is at fault.
Baloney.
The (Florida) law requires a hitch to be of "sufficient strength to pull
all weight towed thereby". There is no "proper design" beyond that. The
performance in a *collision* is of no legal significance. The liability is
strictly with the at-fault driver(s).
By your "proper design" theory, you could be sued for driving a Hyundai
instead of a Humvee. It's your fault you got hurt riding in a tinfoil car,
not that somebody rear-ended you.
You can beef up your vehicle to take a meteorite hit, but it will be no
more or less liability in a collision.
#235
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bumper-mounted trailer hitch bracket for Jeep Wrangler TJ
Bruce L. Bergman writes:
> They figure how fast everyone was going, do the math on
> the forces involved on the bumper in the accident, and prove that the
> weak link was the hitch that let go. They can prove that a properly
> designed hitch would have held under 2X to 4X (or more) of the forces
> involved in that incident - so whoever made that hitch is at fault.
Baloney.
The (Florida) law requires a hitch to be of "sufficient strength to pull
all weight towed thereby". There is no "proper design" beyond that. The
performance in a *collision* is of no legal significance. The liability is
strictly with the at-fault driver(s).
By your "proper design" theory, you could be sued for driving a Hyundai
instead of a Humvee. It's your fault you got hurt riding in a tinfoil car,
not that somebody rear-ended you.
You can beef up your vehicle to take a meteorite hit, but it will be no
more or less liability in a collision.
> They figure how fast everyone was going, do the math on
> the forces involved on the bumper in the accident, and prove that the
> weak link was the hitch that let go. They can prove that a properly
> designed hitch would have held under 2X to 4X (or more) of the forces
> involved in that incident - so whoever made that hitch is at fault.
Baloney.
The (Florida) law requires a hitch to be of "sufficient strength to pull
all weight towed thereby". There is no "proper design" beyond that. The
performance in a *collision* is of no legal significance. The liability is
strictly with the at-fault driver(s).
By your "proper design" theory, you could be sued for driving a Hyundai
instead of a Humvee. It's your fault you got hurt riding in a tinfoil car,
not that somebody rear-ended you.
You can beef up your vehicle to take a meteorite hit, but it will be no
more or less liability in a collision.
#236
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bumper-mounted trailer hitch bracket for Jeep Wrangler TJ
I can tell you they don't call it an accident when the safety
chains also break.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Richard J Kinch wrote:
>
> Nonsense. FS 316.530 is a "noncriminal traffic infraction."
>
> Yeah, horrible accidents happen. The weak-hitch-equals-death analysis
> makes a pleasant fictional scene, but unconvincing as to reality.
chains also break.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Richard J Kinch wrote:
>
> Nonsense. FS 316.530 is a "noncriminal traffic infraction."
>
> Yeah, horrible accidents happen. The weak-hitch-equals-death analysis
> makes a pleasant fictional scene, but unconvincing as to reality.
#237
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bumper-mounted trailer hitch bracket for Jeep Wrangler TJ
I can tell you they don't call it an accident when the safety
chains also break.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Richard J Kinch wrote:
>
> Nonsense. FS 316.530 is a "noncriminal traffic infraction."
>
> Yeah, horrible accidents happen. The weak-hitch-equals-death analysis
> makes a pleasant fictional scene, but unconvincing as to reality.
chains also break.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Richard J Kinch wrote:
>
> Nonsense. FS 316.530 is a "noncriminal traffic infraction."
>
> Yeah, horrible accidents happen. The weak-hitch-equals-death analysis
> makes a pleasant fictional scene, but unconvincing as to reality.
#238
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bumper-mounted trailer hitch bracket for Jeep Wrangler TJ
I can tell you they don't call it an accident when the safety
chains also break.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Richard J Kinch wrote:
>
> Nonsense. FS 316.530 is a "noncriminal traffic infraction."
>
> Yeah, horrible accidents happen. The weak-hitch-equals-death analysis
> makes a pleasant fictional scene, but unconvincing as to reality.
chains also break.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Richard J Kinch wrote:
>
> Nonsense. FS 316.530 is a "noncriminal traffic infraction."
>
> Yeah, horrible accidents happen. The weak-hitch-equals-death analysis
> makes a pleasant fictional scene, but unconvincing as to reality.
#239
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bumper-mounted trailer hitch bracket for Jeep Wrangler TJ
Richard,
I also note upon looking at the setup again, that the safety chains would
attach to the same piece of metal that the hitch resides upon. If the weak
link here is the strength of the bumper material, having the chains attached
to the frame will help.
A while back in the thread, Mike painted a scenario where you might be
rear-ended and the trailer tongue shoots through the Jeep's tub. I have
actually had this happen to me. I have a pop-up camper towed by a Sienna.
While waiting to make a left turn, a van hit the back of the trailer hard.
Both the other van and the trailer were totaled. The tongue was indeed
pushed into the back of the Sienna and the force vector was straight in line
with the car's direction and also upward a bit. The upward tilt of the
hitch ball surprised me a bit, but there it was. I had to unbolt the whole
hitch and drop it to disconnect the trailer from the ball, as it was buried
up in the upper bumper. The combination of the Class 2 hitch and then the
frame of the Sienna absorbed it all, about $2500 worth of fixed damage to
the Sienna. I speculate that if I had an equivalent of this hitch design,
it would be likely that the trailer tongue would, in its upward vector,
pierce the rear of the tub and head for people in the seats.
At least safety chains attached to the frame instead of the part that is
(connected to at least) part of the failure might mitigate this. The chains
need to be of plenty of girth as well.
In other words, if the bumper is the weak point, and the chains are attached
to the metal attached to the bumper, the chains provide zero additional
help. They would only help if the trailer jumps off of the ball. I
advocate attaching them to the frame.
Tomes
"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975613FB99DCAsomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> Here is my design for a bumper-mounted Jeep Wrangler TJ trailer hitch:
>
> http://www.truetex.com/jeep_trailer_hitch_bracket.htm
I also note upon looking at the setup again, that the safety chains would
attach to the same piece of metal that the hitch resides upon. If the weak
link here is the strength of the bumper material, having the chains attached
to the frame will help.
A while back in the thread, Mike painted a scenario where you might be
rear-ended and the trailer tongue shoots through the Jeep's tub. I have
actually had this happen to me. I have a pop-up camper towed by a Sienna.
While waiting to make a left turn, a van hit the back of the trailer hard.
Both the other van and the trailer were totaled. The tongue was indeed
pushed into the back of the Sienna and the force vector was straight in line
with the car's direction and also upward a bit. The upward tilt of the
hitch ball surprised me a bit, but there it was. I had to unbolt the whole
hitch and drop it to disconnect the trailer from the ball, as it was buried
up in the upper bumper. The combination of the Class 2 hitch and then the
frame of the Sienna absorbed it all, about $2500 worth of fixed damage to
the Sienna. I speculate that if I had an equivalent of this hitch design,
it would be likely that the trailer tongue would, in its upward vector,
pierce the rear of the tub and head for people in the seats.
At least safety chains attached to the frame instead of the part that is
(connected to at least) part of the failure might mitigate this. The chains
need to be of plenty of girth as well.
In other words, if the bumper is the weak point, and the chains are attached
to the metal attached to the bumper, the chains provide zero additional
help. They would only help if the trailer jumps off of the ball. I
advocate attaching them to the frame.
Tomes
"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975613FB99DCAsomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> Here is my design for a bumper-mounted Jeep Wrangler TJ trailer hitch:
>
> http://www.truetex.com/jeep_trailer_hitch_bracket.htm
#240
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bumper-mounted trailer hitch bracket for Jeep Wrangler TJ
Richard,
I also note upon looking at the setup again, that the safety chains would
attach to the same piece of metal that the hitch resides upon. If the weak
link here is the strength of the bumper material, having the chains attached
to the frame will help.
A while back in the thread, Mike painted a scenario where you might be
rear-ended and the trailer tongue shoots through the Jeep's tub. I have
actually had this happen to me. I have a pop-up camper towed by a Sienna.
While waiting to make a left turn, a van hit the back of the trailer hard.
Both the other van and the trailer were totaled. The tongue was indeed
pushed into the back of the Sienna and the force vector was straight in line
with the car's direction and also upward a bit. The upward tilt of the
hitch ball surprised me a bit, but there it was. I had to unbolt the whole
hitch and drop it to disconnect the trailer from the ball, as it was buried
up in the upper bumper. The combination of the Class 2 hitch and then the
frame of the Sienna absorbed it all, about $2500 worth of fixed damage to
the Sienna. I speculate that if I had an equivalent of this hitch design,
it would be likely that the trailer tongue would, in its upward vector,
pierce the rear of the tub and head for people in the seats.
At least safety chains attached to the frame instead of the part that is
(connected to at least) part of the failure might mitigate this. The chains
need to be of plenty of girth as well.
In other words, if the bumper is the weak point, and the chains are attached
to the metal attached to the bumper, the chains provide zero additional
help. They would only help if the trailer jumps off of the ball. I
advocate attaching them to the frame.
Tomes
"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975613FB99DCAsomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> Here is my design for a bumper-mounted Jeep Wrangler TJ trailer hitch:
>
> http://www.truetex.com/jeep_trailer_hitch_bracket.htm
I also note upon looking at the setup again, that the safety chains would
attach to the same piece of metal that the hitch resides upon. If the weak
link here is the strength of the bumper material, having the chains attached
to the frame will help.
A while back in the thread, Mike painted a scenario where you might be
rear-ended and the trailer tongue shoots through the Jeep's tub. I have
actually had this happen to me. I have a pop-up camper towed by a Sienna.
While waiting to make a left turn, a van hit the back of the trailer hard.
Both the other van and the trailer were totaled. The tongue was indeed
pushed into the back of the Sienna and the force vector was straight in line
with the car's direction and also upward a bit. The upward tilt of the
hitch ball surprised me a bit, but there it was. I had to unbolt the whole
hitch and drop it to disconnect the trailer from the ball, as it was buried
up in the upper bumper. The combination of the Class 2 hitch and then the
frame of the Sienna absorbed it all, about $2500 worth of fixed damage to
the Sienna. I speculate that if I had an equivalent of this hitch design,
it would be likely that the trailer tongue would, in its upward vector,
pierce the rear of the tub and head for people in the seats.
At least safety chains attached to the frame instead of the part that is
(connected to at least) part of the failure might mitigate this. The chains
need to be of plenty of girth as well.
In other words, if the bumper is the weak point, and the chains are attached
to the metal attached to the bumper, the chains provide zero additional
help. They would only help if the trailer jumps off of the ball. I
advocate attaching them to the frame.
Tomes
"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns975613FB99DCAsomeconundrum@216.196.97.131. ..
> Here is my design for a bumper-mounted Jeep Wrangler TJ trailer hitch:
>
> http://www.truetex.com/jeep_trailer_hitch_bracket.htm