Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven.....

My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with
standard brakes and they both act as you describe.

I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron pulling
a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow one of the
front steel lines....

I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

James Drinkwater wrote:
>
> All,
> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on
> what others say.
> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now
> 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and
> I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed
> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them
> by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point
> that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the
> rain if I'm lucky.
> I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new
> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the
> start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
> Regards,
> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven.....

My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with
standard brakes and they both act as you describe.

I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron pulling
a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow one of the
front steel lines....

I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

James Drinkwater wrote:
>
> All,
> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on
> what others say.
> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now
> 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and
> I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed
> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them
> by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point
> that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the
> rain if I'm lucky.
> I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new
> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the
> start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
> Regards,
> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven.....

My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with
standard brakes and they both act as you describe.

I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron pulling
a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow one of the
front steel lines....

I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

James Drinkwater wrote:
>
> All,
> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on
> what others say.
> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now
> 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and
> I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed
> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them
> by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point
> that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the
> rain if I'm lucky.
> I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new
> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the
> start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
> Regards,
> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Mike Romain wrote:
> That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven.....
>
> My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with
> standard brakes and they both act as you describe.
>
> I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron
> pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow
> one of the front steel lines....
>
> I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one?

How about something like
http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_boosters.php
There are aftermarket options to fit a vac assisted boost

Just make sure the lines are up to the increased pressure. :)



> James Drinkwater wrote:
>>
>> All,
>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better
>> based on what others say.
>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then
>> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15
>> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all;
>> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums
>> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and
>> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on
>> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm
>> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's
>> practically new
>> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from
>> the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
>> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
>> Regards,
>> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Mike Romain wrote:
> That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven.....
>
> My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with
> standard brakes and they both act as you describe.
>
> I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron
> pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow
> one of the front steel lines....
>
> I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one?

How about something like
http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_boosters.php
There are aftermarket options to fit a vac assisted boost

Just make sure the lines are up to the increased pressure. :)



> James Drinkwater wrote:
>>
>> All,
>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better
>> based on what others say.
>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then
>> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15
>> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all;
>> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums
>> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and
>> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on
>> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm
>> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's
>> practically new
>> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from
>> the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
>> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
>> Regards,
>> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Mike Romain wrote:
> That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven.....
>
> My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with
> standard brakes and they both act as you describe.
>
> I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron
> pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow
> one of the front steel lines....
>
> I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one?

How about something like
http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_boosters.php
There are aftermarket options to fit a vac assisted boost

Just make sure the lines are up to the increased pressure. :)



> James Drinkwater wrote:
>>
>> All,
>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better
>> based on what others say.
>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then
>> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15
>> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all;
>> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums
>> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and
>> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on
>> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm
>> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's
>> practically new
>> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from
>> the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
>> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
>> Regards,
>> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster).
I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive
experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He
said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has a
dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might as
well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the
issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse
case, would just improve braking somewhere.
Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders.
Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the gripping
power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think?
Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to
neutral.

Regards,
Drink

"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:0e92h.93479$eE7.92594@newsfe19.lga...
> Mike Romain wrote:
>> That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven.....
>>
>> My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with
>> standard brakes and they both act as you describe.
>>
>> I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron
>> pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow
>> one of the front steel lines....
>>
>> I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one?
>
> How about something like
> http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_boosters.php
> There are aftermarket options to fit a vac assisted boost
>
> Just make sure the lines are up to the increased pressure. :)
>
>
>
>> James Drinkwater wrote:
>>>
>>> All,
>>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better
>>> based on what others say.
>>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then
>>> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15
>>> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all;
>>> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums
>>> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and
>>> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on
>>> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm
>>> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's
>>> practically new
>>> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from
>>> the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
>>> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
>>> Regards,
>>> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater
>
>
>

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster).
I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive
experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He
said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has a
dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might as
well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the
issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse
case, would just improve braking somewhere.
Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders.
Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the gripping
power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think?
Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to
neutral.

Regards,
Drink

"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:0e92h.93479$eE7.92594@newsfe19.lga...
> Mike Romain wrote:
>> That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven.....
>>
>> My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with
>> standard brakes and they both act as you describe.
>>
>> I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron
>> pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow
>> one of the front steel lines....
>>
>> I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one?
>
> How about something like
> http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_boosters.php
> There are aftermarket options to fit a vac assisted boost
>
> Just make sure the lines are up to the increased pressure. :)
>
>
>
>> James Drinkwater wrote:
>>>
>>> All,
>>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better
>>> based on what others say.
>>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then
>>> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15
>>> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all;
>>> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums
>>> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and
>>> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on
>>> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm
>>> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's
>>> practically new
>>> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from
>>> the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
>>> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
>>> Regards,
>>> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater
>
>
>

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster).
I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive
experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He
said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has a
dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might as
well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the
issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse
case, would just improve braking somewhere.
Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders.
Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the gripping
power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think?
Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to
neutral.

Regards,
Drink

"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:0e92h.93479$eE7.92594@newsfe19.lga...
> Mike Romain wrote:
>> That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven.....
>>
>> My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with
>> standard brakes and they both act as you describe.
>>
>> I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron
>> pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow
>> one of the front steel lines....
>>
>> I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one?
>
> How about something like
> http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_boosters.php
> There are aftermarket options to fit a vac assisted boost
>
> Just make sure the lines are up to the increased pressure. :)
>
>
>
>> James Drinkwater wrote:
>>>
>>> All,
>>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better
>>> based on what others say.
>>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then
>>> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15
>>> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all;
>>> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums
>>> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and
>>> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on
>>> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm
>>> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's
>>> practically new
>>> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from
>>> the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
>>> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
>>> Regards,
>>> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater
>
>
>

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Hi James,
You want the smallest master cylinder piston you can find, and the
largest front slave cylinders you can find, to multiply your pedal
leverage.
Hi James,
Double check someone didn't put your brake shoes on backwards, the
short shoe should face the front.
The proportioning valve should be centered if the brake light isn't
lit. To test have someone push the brake pedal while you bleed an axle,
quickly, the light should light, then slowly bleed the other axle until
your helper tells you the light went out, very touchy.
Know that especially with power brakes, tires above 34" will not
lock up on pavement, but will stop you as fast as feathering stock
tires.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

James Drinkwater wrote:
>
> Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster).
> I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive
> experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He
> said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has a
> dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might as
> well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the
> issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse
> case, would just improve braking somewhere.
> Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders.
> Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the gripping
> power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think?
> Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to
> neutral.
>
> Regards,
> Drink