Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

All,
I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on
what others say.
I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now
35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and
I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed
master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them
by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point
that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the
rain if I'm lucky.
I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new
minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the
start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
Regards,
Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ?

Dave Milne, Scotland


"James Drinkwater" <jdrinkwater@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:kO71h.25275$GR2.6581@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> All,
> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based
on
> what others say.
> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's,
now
> 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and
> I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've
changed
> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled
them
> by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point
> that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in
the
> rain if I'm lucky.
> I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new
> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the
> start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
> Regards,
> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater
>
>

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ?

Dave Milne, Scotland


"James Drinkwater" <jdrinkwater@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:kO71h.25275$GR2.6581@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> All,
> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based
on
> what others say.
> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's,
now
> 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and
> I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've
changed
> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled
them
> by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point
> that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in
the
> rain if I'm lucky.
> I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new
> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the
> start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
> Regards,
> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater
>
>

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ?

Dave Milne, Scotland


"James Drinkwater" <jdrinkwater@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:kO71h.25275$GR2.6581@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> All,
> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based
on
> what others say.
> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's,
now
> 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and
> I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've
changed
> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled
them
> by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point
> that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in
the
> rain if I'm lucky.
> I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new
> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the
> start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a
> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
> Regards,
> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater
>
>

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Dave Milne wrote:
> Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ?

That's my thought. The OP doesn't say if it's an assisted
system or not. But bad vac or a leaking booster can sure
make braking difficult.

> "James Drinkwater" wrote ...
>> All,
>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better
>> based on what others say.
>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then
>> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15
>> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all;
>> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums
>> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and
>> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on
>> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm
>> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's
>> practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be
>> the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else?
>> If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.

Blocked lines are easy. If fluid comes squirting out when
you bleed by pedal, then your lines aren't blocked.

The proportioning valve is a solid brass doodad and hardly
ever fails. When it does it usually just leaks out the end.
Do make sure that both front and rear brakes are being applied
and the proportioning valve isn't stuck on just front or rear.
(some are tricky when bleeding brakes and have to be locked
down with a clamp)

When it comes to brakes it might be worth the money to have a
decent local shop look them over. And I'm not talking midas.
I'm talking a shop with real mechanics. (long story)

--
DougW

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Dave Milne wrote:
> Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ?

That's my thought. The OP doesn't say if it's an assisted
system or not. But bad vac or a leaking booster can sure
make braking difficult.

> "James Drinkwater" wrote ...
>> All,
>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better
>> based on what others say.
>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then
>> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15
>> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all;
>> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums
>> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and
>> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on
>> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm
>> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's
>> practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be
>> the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else?
>> If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.

Blocked lines are easy. If fluid comes squirting out when
you bleed by pedal, then your lines aren't blocked.

The proportioning valve is a solid brass doodad and hardly
ever fails. When it does it usually just leaks out the end.
Do make sure that both front and rear brakes are being applied
and the proportioning valve isn't stuck on just front or rear.
(some are tricky when bleeding brakes and have to be locked
down with a clamp)

When it comes to brakes it might be worth the money to have a
decent local shop look them over. And I'm not talking midas.
I'm talking a shop with real mechanics. (long story)

--
DougW

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

Dave Milne wrote:
> Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ?

That's my thought. The OP doesn't say if it's an assisted
system or not. But bad vac or a leaking booster can sure
make braking difficult.

> "James Drinkwater" wrote ...
>> All,
>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better
>> based on what others say.
>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then
>> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15
>> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all;
>> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums
>> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and
>> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on
>> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm
>> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's
>> practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be
>> the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else?
>> If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.

Blocked lines are easy. If fluid comes squirting out when
you bleed by pedal, then your lines aren't blocked.

The proportioning valve is a solid brass doodad and hardly
ever fails. When it does it usually just leaks out the end.
Do make sure that both front and rear brakes are being applied
and the proportioning valve isn't stuck on just front or rear.
(some are tricky when bleeding brakes and have to be locked
down with a clamp)

When it comes to brakes it might be worth the money to have a
decent local shop look them over. And I'm not talking midas.
I'm talking a shop with real mechanics. (long story)

--
DougW

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

The exception is not really a failure of the proportioner, but if you
ever bleed the brakes and get that sucker shuttled to one end and
stuck you can play hell getting it to reset without manually
re-positioning it. BTDT. I had to mess with the pin to get it back
to the neutral position.

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 22:59:14 UTC "DougW"
<post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:

> Dave Milne wrote:
> > Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ?
>
> That's my thought. The OP doesn't say if it's an assisted
> system or not. But bad vac or a leaking booster can sure
> make braking difficult.
>
> > "James Drinkwater" wrote ...
> >> All,
> >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better
> >> based on what others say.
> >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then
> >> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15
> >> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all;
> >> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums
> >> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and
> >> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on
> >> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm
> >> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's
> >> practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be
> >> the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else?
> >> If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
>
> Blocked lines are easy. If fluid comes squirting out when
> you bleed by pedal, then your lines aren't blocked.
>
> The proportioning valve is a solid brass doodad and hardly
> ever fails. When it does it usually just leaks out the end.
> Do make sure that both front and rear brakes are being applied
> and the proportioning valve isn't stuck on just front or rear.
> (some are tricky when bleeding brakes and have to be locked
> down with a clamp)
>
> When it comes to brakes it might be worth the money to have a
> decent local shop look them over. And I'm not talking midas.
> I'm talking a shop with real mechanics. (long story)
>


--
Will Honea

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

The exception is not really a failure of the proportioner, but if you
ever bleed the brakes and get that sucker shuttled to one end and
stuck you can play hell getting it to reset without manually
re-positioning it. BTDT. I had to mess with the pin to get it back
to the neutral position.

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 22:59:14 UTC "DougW"
<post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:

> Dave Milne wrote:
> > Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ?
>
> That's my thought. The OP doesn't say if it's an assisted
> system or not. But bad vac or a leaking booster can sure
> make braking difficult.
>
> > "James Drinkwater" wrote ...
> >> All,
> >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better
> >> based on what others say.
> >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then
> >> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15
> >> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all;
> >> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums
> >> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and
> >> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on
> >> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm
> >> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's
> >> practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be
> >> the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else?
> >> If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
>
> Blocked lines are easy. If fluid comes squirting out when
> you bleed by pedal, then your lines aren't blocked.
>
> The proportioning valve is a solid brass doodad and hardly
> ever fails. When it does it usually just leaks out the end.
> Do make sure that both front and rear brakes are being applied
> and the proportioning valve isn't stuck on just front or rear.
> (some are tricky when bleeding brakes and have to be locked
> down with a clamp)
>
> When it comes to brakes it might be worth the money to have a
> decent local shop look them over. And I'm not talking midas.
> I'm talking a shop with real mechanics. (long story)
>


--
Will Honea

Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
 

The exception is not really a failure of the proportioner, but if you
ever bleed the brakes and get that sucker shuttled to one end and
stuck you can play hell getting it to reset without manually
re-positioning it. BTDT. I had to mess with the pin to get it back
to the neutral position.

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 22:59:14 UTC "DougW"
<post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:

> Dave Milne wrote:
> > Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ?
>
> That's my thought. The OP doesn't say if it's an assisted
> system or not. But bad vac or a leaking booster can sure
> make braking difficult.
>
> > "James Drinkwater" wrote ...
> >> All,
> >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better
> >> based on what others say.
> >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then
> >> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15
> >> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all;
> >> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums
> >> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and
> >> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on
> >> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm
> >> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's
> >> practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be
> >> the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else?
> >> If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it.
>
> Blocked lines are easy. If fluid comes squirting out when
> you bleed by pedal, then your lines aren't blocked.
>
> The proportioning valve is a solid brass doodad and hardly
> ever fails. When it does it usually just leaks out the end.
> Do make sure that both front and rear brakes are being applied
> and the proportioning valve isn't stuck on just front or rear.
> (some are tricky when bleeding brakes and have to be locked
> down with a clamp)
>
> When it comes to brakes it might be worth the money to have a
> decent local shop look them over. And I'm not talking midas.
> I'm talking a shop with real mechanics. (long story)
>


--
Will Honea