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Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
All,
I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on what others say. I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. Regards, Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ?
Dave Milne, Scotland "James Drinkwater" <jdrinkwater@satx.rr.com> wrote in message news:kO71h.25275$GR2.6581@tornado.texas.rr.com... > All, > I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on > what others say. > I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now > 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and > I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed > master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them > by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point > that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the > rain if I'm lucky. > I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new > minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the > start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a > troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. > Regards, > Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater > > |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ?
Dave Milne, Scotland "James Drinkwater" <jdrinkwater@satx.rr.com> wrote in message news:kO71h.25275$GR2.6581@tornado.texas.rr.com... > All, > I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on > what others say. > I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now > 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and > I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed > master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them > by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point > that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the > rain if I'm lucky. > I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new > minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the > start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a > troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. > Regards, > Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater > > |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ?
Dave Milne, Scotland "James Drinkwater" <jdrinkwater@satx.rr.com> wrote in message news:kO71h.25275$GR2.6581@tornado.texas.rr.com... > All, > I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on > what others say. > I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now > 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and > I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed > master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them > by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point > that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the > rain if I'm lucky. > I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new > minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the > start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a > troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. > Regards, > Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater > > |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Dave Milne wrote:
> Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ? That's my thought. The OP doesn't say if it's an assisted system or not. But bad vac or a leaking booster can sure make braking difficult. > "James Drinkwater" wrote ... >> All, >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better >> based on what others say. >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then >> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 >> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; >> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums >> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and >> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on >> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm >> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's >> practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be >> the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else? >> If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. Blocked lines are easy. If fluid comes squirting out when you bleed by pedal, then your lines aren't blocked. The proportioning valve is a solid brass doodad and hardly ever fails. When it does it usually just leaks out the end. Do make sure that both front and rear brakes are being applied and the proportioning valve isn't stuck on just front or rear. (some are tricky when bleeding brakes and have to be locked down with a clamp) When it comes to brakes it might be worth the money to have a decent local shop look them over. And I'm not talking midas. I'm talking a shop with real mechanics. (long story) -- DougW |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Dave Milne wrote:
> Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ? That's my thought. The OP doesn't say if it's an assisted system or not. But bad vac or a leaking booster can sure make braking difficult. > "James Drinkwater" wrote ... >> All, >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better >> based on what others say. >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then >> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 >> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; >> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums >> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and >> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on >> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm >> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's >> practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be >> the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else? >> If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. Blocked lines are easy. If fluid comes squirting out when you bleed by pedal, then your lines aren't blocked. The proportioning valve is a solid brass doodad and hardly ever fails. When it does it usually just leaks out the end. Do make sure that both front and rear brakes are being applied and the proportioning valve isn't stuck on just front or rear. (some are tricky when bleeding brakes and have to be locked down with a clamp) When it comes to brakes it might be worth the money to have a decent local shop look them over. And I'm not talking midas. I'm talking a shop with real mechanics. (long story) -- DougW |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Dave Milne wrote:
> Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ? That's my thought. The OP doesn't say if it's an assisted system or not. But bad vac or a leaking booster can sure make braking difficult. > "James Drinkwater" wrote ... >> All, >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better >> based on what others say. >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then >> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 >> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; >> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums >> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and >> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on >> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm >> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's >> practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be >> the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else? >> If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. Blocked lines are easy. If fluid comes squirting out when you bleed by pedal, then your lines aren't blocked. The proportioning valve is a solid brass doodad and hardly ever fails. When it does it usually just leaks out the end. Do make sure that both front and rear brakes are being applied and the proportioning valve isn't stuck on just front or rear. (some are tricky when bleeding brakes and have to be locked down with a clamp) When it comes to brakes it might be worth the money to have a decent local shop look them over. And I'm not talking midas. I'm talking a shop with real mechanics. (long story) -- DougW |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
The exception is not really a failure of the proportioner, but if you
ever bleed the brakes and get that sucker shuttled to one end and stuck you can play hell getting it to reset without manually re-positioning it. BTDT. I had to mess with the pin to get it back to the neutral position. On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 22:59:14 UTC "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote: > Dave Milne wrote: > > Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ? > > That's my thought. The OP doesn't say if it's an assisted > system or not. But bad vac or a leaking booster can sure > make braking difficult. > > > "James Drinkwater" wrote ... > >> All, > >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better > >> based on what others say. > >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then > >> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 > >> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; > >> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums > >> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and > >> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on > >> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm > >> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's > >> practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be > >> the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else? > >> If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. > > Blocked lines are easy. If fluid comes squirting out when > you bleed by pedal, then your lines aren't blocked. > > The proportioning valve is a solid brass doodad and hardly > ever fails. When it does it usually just leaks out the end. > Do make sure that both front and rear brakes are being applied > and the proportioning valve isn't stuck on just front or rear. > (some are tricky when bleeding brakes and have to be locked > down with a clamp) > > When it comes to brakes it might be worth the money to have a > decent local shop look them over. And I'm not talking midas. > I'm talking a shop with real mechanics. (long story) > -- Will Honea |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
The exception is not really a failure of the proportioner, but if you
ever bleed the brakes and get that sucker shuttled to one end and stuck you can play hell getting it to reset without manually re-positioning it. BTDT. I had to mess with the pin to get it back to the neutral position. On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 22:59:14 UTC "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote: > Dave Milne wrote: > > Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ? > > That's my thought. The OP doesn't say if it's an assisted > system or not. But bad vac or a leaking booster can sure > make braking difficult. > > > "James Drinkwater" wrote ... > >> All, > >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better > >> based on what others say. > >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then > >> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 > >> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; > >> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums > >> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and > >> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on > >> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm > >> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's > >> practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be > >> the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else? > >> If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. > > Blocked lines are easy. If fluid comes squirting out when > you bleed by pedal, then your lines aren't blocked. > > The proportioning valve is a solid brass doodad and hardly > ever fails. When it does it usually just leaks out the end. > Do make sure that both front and rear brakes are being applied > and the proportioning valve isn't stuck on just front or rear. > (some are tricky when bleeding brakes and have to be locked > down with a clamp) > > When it comes to brakes it might be worth the money to have a > decent local shop look them over. And I'm not talking midas. > I'm talking a shop with real mechanics. (long story) > -- Will Honea |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
The exception is not really a failure of the proportioner, but if you
ever bleed the brakes and get that sucker shuttled to one end and stuck you can play hell getting it to reset without manually re-positioning it. BTDT. I had to mess with the pin to get it back to the neutral position. On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 22:59:14 UTC "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote: > Dave Milne wrote: > > Duff servo perhaps ? Do you have decent manifold vaccuum ? > > That's my thought. The OP doesn't say if it's an assisted > system or not. But bad vac or a leaking booster can sure > make braking difficult. > > > "James Drinkwater" wrote ... > >> All, > >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better > >> based on what others say. > >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then > >> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 > >> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; > >> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums > >> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and > >> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on > >> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm > >> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's > >> practically new minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be > >> the culprit from the start? Or, should I look for something else? > >> If somebody has a troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. > > Blocked lines are easy. If fluid comes squirting out when > you bleed by pedal, then your lines aren't blocked. > > The proportioning valve is a solid brass doodad and hardly > ever fails. When it does it usually just leaks out the end. > Do make sure that both front and rear brakes are being applied > and the proportioning valve isn't stuck on just front or rear. > (some are tricky when bleeding brakes and have to be locked > down with a clamp) > > When it comes to brakes it might be worth the money to have a > decent local shop look them over. And I'm not talking midas. > I'm talking a shop with real mechanics. (long story) > -- Will Honea |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven.....
My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with standard brakes and they both act as you describe. I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow one of the front steel lines.... I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one? Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) James Drinkwater wrote: > > All, > I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on > what others say. > I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now > 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and > I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed > master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them > by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point > that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the > rain if I'm lucky. > I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new > minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the > start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a > troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. > Regards, > Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven.....
My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with standard brakes and they both act as you describe. I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow one of the front steel lines.... I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one? Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) James Drinkwater wrote: > > All, > I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on > what others say. > I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now > 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and > I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed > master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them > by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point > that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the > rain if I'm lucky. > I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new > minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the > start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a > troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. > Regards, > Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven.....
My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with standard brakes and they both act as you describe. I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow one of the front steel lines.... I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one? Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) James Drinkwater wrote: > > All, > I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on > what others say. > I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now > 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and > I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed > master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them > by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point > that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the > rain if I'm lucky. > I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new > minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the > start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a > troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. > Regards, > Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Mike Romain wrote:
> That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven..... > > My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with > standard brakes and they both act as you describe. > > I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron > pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow > one of the front steel lines.... > > I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one? How about something like http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_boosters.php There are aftermarket options to fit a vac assisted boost Just make sure the lines are up to the increased pressure. :) > James Drinkwater wrote: >> >> All, >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better >> based on what others say. >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then >> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 >> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; >> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums >> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and >> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on >> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm >> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's >> practically new >> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from >> the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a >> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. >> Regards, >> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Mike Romain wrote:
> That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven..... > > My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with > standard brakes and they both act as you describe. > > I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron > pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow > one of the front steel lines.... > > I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one? How about something like http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_boosters.php There are aftermarket options to fit a vac assisted boost Just make sure the lines are up to the increased pressure. :) > James Drinkwater wrote: >> >> All, >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better >> based on what others say. >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then >> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 >> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; >> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums >> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and >> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on >> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm >> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's >> practically new >> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from >> the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a >> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. >> Regards, >> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Mike Romain wrote:
> That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven..... > > My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with > standard brakes and they both act as you describe. > > I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron > pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow > one of the front steel lines.... > > I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one? How about something like http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_boosters.php There are aftermarket options to fit a vac assisted boost Just make sure the lines are up to the increased pressure. :) > James Drinkwater wrote: >> >> All, >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better >> based on what others say. >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then >> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 >> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; >> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums >> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and >> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on >> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm >> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's >> practically new >> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from >> the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a >> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. >> Regards, >> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster).
I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has a dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might as well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse case, would just improve braking somewhere. Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders. Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the gripping power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to neutral. Regards, Drink "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message news:0e92h.93479$eE7.92594@newsfe19.lga... > Mike Romain wrote: >> That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven..... >> >> My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with >> standard brakes and they both act as you describe. >> >> I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron >> pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow >> one of the front steel lines.... >> >> I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one? > > How about something like > http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_boosters.php > There are aftermarket options to fit a vac assisted boost > > Just make sure the lines are up to the increased pressure. :) > > > >> James Drinkwater wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better >>> based on what others say. >>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then >>> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 >>> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; >>> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums >>> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and >>> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on >>> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm >>> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's >>> practically new >>> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from >>> the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a >>> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. >>> Regards, >>> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater > > > |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster).
I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has a dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might as well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse case, would just improve braking somewhere. Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders. Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the gripping power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to neutral. Regards, Drink "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message news:0e92h.93479$eE7.92594@newsfe19.lga... > Mike Romain wrote: >> That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven..... >> >> My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with >> standard brakes and they both act as you describe. >> >> I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron >> pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow >> one of the front steel lines.... >> >> I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one? > > How about something like > http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_boosters.php > There are aftermarket options to fit a vac assisted boost > > Just make sure the lines are up to the increased pressure. :) > > > >> James Drinkwater wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better >>> based on what others say. >>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then >>> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 >>> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; >>> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums >>> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and >>> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on >>> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm >>> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's >>> practically new >>> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from >>> the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a >>> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. >>> Regards, >>> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater > > > |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster).
I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has a dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might as well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse case, would just improve braking somewhere. Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders. Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the gripping power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to neutral. Regards, Drink "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message news:0e92h.93479$eE7.92594@newsfe19.lga... > Mike Romain wrote: >> That sounds like any CJ I have ever driven..... >> >> My 86 has front disks and power brakes, an old tenant had an 85 with >> standard brakes and they both act as you describe. >> >> I had to lock mine up the other day due to some brain dead moron >> pulling a u-turn in front of me and hit the pedal hard enough to blow >> one of the front steel lines.... >> >> I have heard of folks using a larger MC, maybe a caddy one? > > How about something like > http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_boosters.php > There are aftermarket options to fit a vac assisted boost > > Just make sure the lines are up to the increased pressure. :) > > > >> James Drinkwater wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better >>> based on what others say. >>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then >>> 33's, now 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 >>> years later) and I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; >>> always weak. I've changed master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums >>> and the whole works. I've bled them by gravity, pedal pressure and >>> vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point that I have to stand on >>> it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the rain if I'm >>> lucky. I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's >>> practically new >>> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from >>> the start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a >>> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. >>> Regards, >>> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater > > > |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Hi James,
You want the smallest master cylinder piston you can find, and the largest front slave cylinders you can find, to multiply your pedal leverage. Hi James, Double check someone didn't put your brake shoes on backwards, the short shoe should face the front. The proportioning valve should be centered if the brake light isn't lit. To test have someone push the brake pedal while you bleed an axle, quickly, the light should light, then slowly bleed the other axle until your helper tells you the light went out, very touchy. Know that especially with power brakes, tires above 34" will not lock up on pavement, but will stop you as fast as feathering stock tires. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ James Drinkwater wrote: > > Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster). > I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive > experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He > said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has a > dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might as > well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the > issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse > case, would just improve braking somewhere. > Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders. > Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the gripping > power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? > Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to > neutral. > > Regards, > Drink |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Hi James,
You want the smallest master cylinder piston you can find, and the largest front slave cylinders you can find, to multiply your pedal leverage. Hi James, Double check someone didn't put your brake shoes on backwards, the short shoe should face the front. The proportioning valve should be centered if the brake light isn't lit. To test have someone push the brake pedal while you bleed an axle, quickly, the light should light, then slowly bleed the other axle until your helper tells you the light went out, very touchy. Know that especially with power brakes, tires above 34" will not lock up on pavement, but will stop you as fast as feathering stock tires. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ James Drinkwater wrote: > > Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster). > I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive > experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He > said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has a > dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might as > well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the > issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse > case, would just improve braking somewhere. > Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders. > Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the gripping > power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? > Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to > neutral. > > Regards, > Drink |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Hi James,
You want the smallest master cylinder piston you can find, and the largest front slave cylinders you can find, to multiply your pedal leverage. Hi James, Double check someone didn't put your brake shoes on backwards, the short shoe should face the front. The proportioning valve should be centered if the brake light isn't lit. To test have someone push the brake pedal while you bleed an axle, quickly, the light should light, then slowly bleed the other axle until your helper tells you the light went out, very touchy. Know that especially with power brakes, tires above 34" will not lock up on pavement, but will stop you as fast as feathering stock tires. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ James Drinkwater wrote: > > Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster). > I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive > experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He > said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has a > dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might as > well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the > issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse > case, would just improve braking somewhere. > Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders. > Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the gripping > power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? > Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to > neutral. > > Regards, > Drink |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
James Drinkwater wrote:
> Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster). > I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive > experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to > see if > that has a dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're > thinking, "You might as well just replace the valve." Might as well > but maybe this can prove the issue while I wait for a new part. I > don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse case, would just improve > braking somewhere. The proportioning valve acts as an emergency cut-off should the front or rear brake lines spring a leak. Taking the guts out is dangerous. > Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or > larger master cylinders. Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the > gripping power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? > Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset > to neutral. The booster replaces standing on the brake and adds significantly to the available hydraulic pressure. http://www.classicperform.com/PDFs/B...ssureChart.pdf That is why when adding a booster to a standard system you have to upgrade the flex lines and double check all hard lines. I installed one on a friends pickup and the first time he tested it, it blew a bubble in the flex lines. -- DougW |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
James Drinkwater wrote:
> Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster). > I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive > experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to > see if > that has a dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're > thinking, "You might as well just replace the valve." Might as well > but maybe this can prove the issue while I wait for a new part. I > don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse case, would just improve > braking somewhere. The proportioning valve acts as an emergency cut-off should the front or rear brake lines spring a leak. Taking the guts out is dangerous. > Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or > larger master cylinders. Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the > gripping power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? > Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset > to neutral. The booster replaces standing on the brake and adds significantly to the available hydraulic pressure. http://www.classicperform.com/PDFs/B...ssureChart.pdf That is why when adding a booster to a standard system you have to upgrade the flex lines and double check all hard lines. I installed one on a friends pickup and the first time he tested it, it blew a bubble in the flex lines. -- DougW |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
James Drinkwater wrote:
> Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster). > I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive > experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to > see if > that has a dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're > thinking, "You might as well just replace the valve." Might as well > but maybe this can prove the issue while I wait for a new part. I > don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse case, would just improve > braking somewhere. The proportioning valve acts as an emergency cut-off should the front or rear brake lines spring a leak. Taking the guts out is dangerous. > Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or > larger master cylinders. Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the > gripping power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? > Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset > to neutral. The booster replaces standing on the brake and adds significantly to the available hydraulic pressure. http://www.classicperform.com/PDFs/B...ssureChart.pdf That is why when adding a booster to a standard system you have to upgrade the flex lines and double check all hard lines. I installed one on a friends pickup and the first time he tested it, it blew a bubble in the flex lines. -- DougW |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Okay Doug, you're right. I knew better than that when I started typing.
What the hell am I thinkin', "gut a brake part"?! Anyway, I knew about the axle-loss safety feature (just brain-farted), but doesn't the PV bias pressure so the rear doesn't lock as easily? Drink "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message news:kU63h.17148$mX5.14016@newsfe23.lga... > James Drinkwater wrote: >> Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster). >> I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive >> experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He >> said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if >> that has a dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're >> thinking, "You might as well just replace the valve." Might as well >> but maybe this can prove the issue while I wait for a new part. I >> don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse case, would just improve >> braking somewhere. > > The proportioning valve acts as an emergency cut-off should the > front or rear brake lines spring a leak. Taking the guts out is > dangerous. > >> Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or >> larger master cylinders. Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still >> doesn't address the >> gripping power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? >> Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset >> to neutral. > > The booster replaces standing on the brake and adds significantly > to the available hydraulic pressure. > http://www.classicperform.com/PDFs/B...ssureChart.pdf > > That is why when adding a booster to a standard system you have to > upgrade the flex lines and double check all hard lines. I installed > one on a friends pickup and the first time he tested it, it blew a > bubble in the flex lines. > > -- > DougW > |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Okay Doug, you're right. I knew better than that when I started typing.
What the hell am I thinkin', "gut a brake part"?! Anyway, I knew about the axle-loss safety feature (just brain-farted), but doesn't the PV bias pressure so the rear doesn't lock as easily? Drink "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message news:kU63h.17148$mX5.14016@newsfe23.lga... > James Drinkwater wrote: >> Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster). >> I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive >> experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He >> said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if >> that has a dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're >> thinking, "You might as well just replace the valve." Might as well >> but maybe this can prove the issue while I wait for a new part. I >> don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse case, would just improve >> braking somewhere. > > The proportioning valve acts as an emergency cut-off should the > front or rear brake lines spring a leak. Taking the guts out is > dangerous. > >> Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or >> larger master cylinders. Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still >> doesn't address the >> gripping power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? >> Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset >> to neutral. > > The booster replaces standing on the brake and adds significantly > to the available hydraulic pressure. > http://www.classicperform.com/PDFs/B...ssureChart.pdf > > That is why when adding a booster to a standard system you have to > upgrade the flex lines and double check all hard lines. I installed > one on a friends pickup and the first time he tested it, it blew a > bubble in the flex lines. > > -- > DougW > |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Okay Doug, you're right. I knew better than that when I started typing.
What the hell am I thinkin', "gut a brake part"?! Anyway, I knew about the axle-loss safety feature (just brain-farted), but doesn't the PV bias pressure so the rear doesn't lock as easily? Drink "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message news:kU63h.17148$mX5.14016@newsfe23.lga... > James Drinkwater wrote: >> Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster). >> I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive >> experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He >> said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if >> that has a dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're >> thinking, "You might as well just replace the valve." Might as well >> but maybe this can prove the issue while I wait for a new part. I >> don't think it'd be unsafe and, worse case, would just improve >> braking somewhere. > > The proportioning valve acts as an emergency cut-off should the > front or rear brake lines spring a leak. Taking the guts out is > dangerous. > >> Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or >> larger master cylinders. Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still >> doesn't address the >> gripping power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? >> Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset >> to neutral. > > The booster replaces standing on the brake and adds significantly > to the available hydraulic pressure. > http://www.classicperform.com/PDFs/B...ssureChart.pdf > > That is why when adding a booster to a standard system you have to > upgrade the flex lines and double check all hard lines. I installed > one on a friends pickup and the first time he tested it, it blew a > bubble in the flex lines. > > -- > DougW > |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
You're driving on front drum brakes with a foot that is used to disks. Drums were always weak, and worse when wet. You should consider converting the front to disks -- find a donor axle and it should be a bolt-up job. On Sun, 29 Oct 2006, James Drinkwater wrote: > All, > I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on > what others say. > I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now > 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and > I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed > master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them > by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point > that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the > rain if I'm lucky. > I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new > minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the > start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a > troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. > Regards, > Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater > > > -- "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with whips....r" R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
You're driving on front drum brakes with a foot that is used to disks. Drums were always weak, and worse when wet. You should consider converting the front to disks -- find a donor axle and it should be a bolt-up job. On Sun, 29 Oct 2006, James Drinkwater wrote: > All, > I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on > what others say. > I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now > 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and > I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed > master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them > by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point > that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the > rain if I'm lucky. > I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new > minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the > start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a > troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. > Regards, > Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater > > > -- "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with whips....r" R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
You're driving on front drum brakes with a foot that is used to disks. Drums were always weak, and worse when wet. You should consider converting the front to disks -- find a donor axle and it should be a bolt-up job. On Sun, 29 Oct 2006, James Drinkwater wrote: > All, > I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based on > what others say. > I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, now > 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and > I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've changed > master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled them > by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the point > that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in the > rain if I'm lucky. > I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new > minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the > start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a > troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. > Regards, > Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater > > > -- "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with whips....r" R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Thanks Bill,
Maybe you can help me out understanding the interchange; which is what's stunting my progress. I'd like to get off-the-shelf brake parts that'll interchange: master/slaves, booster, REAL quality shoes, etc. But, I'm concerned I'll have fits with bolt patterns, rod length, fittings, and hidden pitfalls. Most parts shops run out of gas after, "What kind of car is it for?":) Drink '76 CJ-7 standard brakes 11" drums x 4 "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:454CF886.10589A8B@cox.net... > Hi James, > You want the smallest master cylinder piston you can find, and the > largest front slave cylinders you can find, to multiply your pedal > leverage. > Hi James, > Double check someone didn't put your brake shoes on backwards, the > short shoe should face the front. > The proportioning valve should be centered if the brake light isn't > lit. To test have someone push the brake pedal while you bleed an axle, > quickly, the light should light, then slowly bleed the other axle until > your helper tells you the light went out, very touchy. > Know that especially with power brakes, tires above 34" will not > lock up on pavement, but will stop you as fast as feathering stock > tires. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > James Drinkwater wrote: >> >> Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster). >> I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive >> experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He >> said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has >> a >> dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might >> as >> well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the >> issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, >> worse >> case, would just improve braking somewhere. >> Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders. >> Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the >> gripping >> power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? >> Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to >> neutral. >> >> Regards, >> Drink |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Thanks Bill,
Maybe you can help me out understanding the interchange; which is what's stunting my progress. I'd like to get off-the-shelf brake parts that'll interchange: master/slaves, booster, REAL quality shoes, etc. But, I'm concerned I'll have fits with bolt patterns, rod length, fittings, and hidden pitfalls. Most parts shops run out of gas after, "What kind of car is it for?":) Drink '76 CJ-7 standard brakes 11" drums x 4 "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:454CF886.10589A8B@cox.net... > Hi James, > You want the smallest master cylinder piston you can find, and the > largest front slave cylinders you can find, to multiply your pedal > leverage. > Hi James, > Double check someone didn't put your brake shoes on backwards, the > short shoe should face the front. > The proportioning valve should be centered if the brake light isn't > lit. To test have someone push the brake pedal while you bleed an axle, > quickly, the light should light, then slowly bleed the other axle until > your helper tells you the light went out, very touchy. > Know that especially with power brakes, tires above 34" will not > lock up on pavement, but will stop you as fast as feathering stock > tires. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > James Drinkwater wrote: >> >> Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster). >> I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive >> experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He >> said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has >> a >> dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might >> as >> well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the >> issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, >> worse >> case, would just improve braking somewhere. >> Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders. >> Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the >> gripping >> power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? >> Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to >> neutral. >> >> Regards, >> Drink |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
Thanks Bill,
Maybe you can help me out understanding the interchange; which is what's stunting my progress. I'd like to get off-the-shelf brake parts that'll interchange: master/slaves, booster, REAL quality shoes, etc. But, I'm concerned I'll have fits with bolt patterns, rod length, fittings, and hidden pitfalls. Most parts shops run out of gas after, "What kind of car is it for?":) Drink '76 CJ-7 standard brakes 11" drums x 4 "L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message news:454CF886.10589A8B@cox.net... > Hi James, > You want the smallest master cylinder piston you can find, and the > largest front slave cylinders you can find, to multiply your pedal > leverage. > Hi James, > Double check someone didn't put your brake shoes on backwards, the > short shoe should face the front. > The proportioning valve should be centered if the brake light isn't > lit. To test have someone push the brake pedal while you bleed an axle, > quickly, the light should light, then slowly bleed the other axle until > your helper tells you the light went out, very touchy. > Know that especially with power brakes, tires above 34" will not > lock up on pavement, but will stop you as fast as feathering stock > tires. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > James Drinkwater wrote: >> >> Sorry for the omission. It has standard brakes (no booster). >> I talked to a professional mechanic the other day who has extensive >> experience with off-roading and the kind of issues we all deal with. He >> said I can try "hollowing out" the proportioning valve to see if that has >> a >> dramatic effect on braking. Now, I know what you're thinking, "You might >> as >> well just replace the valve." Might as well but maybe this can prove the >> issue while I wait for a new part. I don't think it'd be unsafe and, >> worse >> case, would just improve braking somewhere. >> Not so sure 'bout the benefit of boosters or larger master cylinders. >> Sure, it'd be easier on my foot, but it still doesn't address the >> gripping >> power does it? Or does it? Whattaya think? >> Explain to me the repositioning of the proportioning valve pin reset to >> neutral. >> >> Regards, >> Drink |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
I'd love to (axle swap) but haven't seen any direct swaps lately. We're
getting into a little different ground too and I'd love to kill two birds with one stone: stronger, little wider, disc brakes, maybe better gears and a locker too. But it's gotta be a swap that isn't fabrication-intensive since I don't have those kind of resources or cash. Best Regards, Drink "Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0611050955500.6636@panix1.panix .com... > > You're driving on front drum brakes with a foot that is used to disks. > Drums were always weak, and worse when wet. You should consider > converting the front to disks -- find a donor axle and it should be a > bolt-up job. > > > On Sun, 29 Oct 2006, James Drinkwater wrote: > >> All, >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based >> on >> what others say. >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, >> now >> 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and >> I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've >> changed >> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled >> them >> by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the >> point >> that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in >> the >> rain if I'm lucky. >> I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new >> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the >> start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a >> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. >> Regards, >> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater >> >> >> > > -- > "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with > whips....r" > R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. > |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
I'd love to (axle swap) but haven't seen any direct swaps lately. We're
getting into a little different ground too and I'd love to kill two birds with one stone: stronger, little wider, disc brakes, maybe better gears and a locker too. But it's gotta be a swap that isn't fabrication-intensive since I don't have those kind of resources or cash. Best Regards, Drink "Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0611050955500.6636@panix1.panix .com... > > You're driving on front drum brakes with a foot that is used to disks. > Drums were always weak, and worse when wet. You should consider > converting the front to disks -- find a donor axle and it should be a > bolt-up job. > > > On Sun, 29 Oct 2006, James Drinkwater wrote: > >> All, >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based >> on >> what others say. >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, >> now >> 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and >> I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've >> changed >> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled >> them >> by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the >> point >> that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in >> the >> rain if I'm lucky. >> I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new >> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the >> start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a >> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. >> Regards, >> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater >> >> >> > > -- > "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with > whips....r" > R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. > |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
I'd love to (axle swap) but haven't seen any direct swaps lately. We're
getting into a little different ground too and I'd love to kill two birds with one stone: stronger, little wider, disc brakes, maybe better gears and a locker too. But it's gotta be a swap that isn't fabrication-intensive since I don't have those kind of resources or cash. Best Regards, Drink "Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0611050955500.6636@panix1.panix .com... > > You're driving on front drum brakes with a foot that is used to disks. > Drums were always weak, and worse when wet. You should consider > converting the front to disks -- find a donor axle and it should be a > bolt-up job. > > > On Sun, 29 Oct 2006, James Drinkwater wrote: > >> All, >> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based >> on >> what others say. >> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, >> now >> 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and >> I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've >> changed >> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled >> them >> by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the >> point >> that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in >> the >> rain if I'm lucky. >> I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new >> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the >> start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a >> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. >> Regards, >> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater >> >> >> > > -- > "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with > whips....r" > R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. > |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
You don't need to swap axles or even a have working donor axle, you just need the parts from the mounting brackets outward. Any CJ (5 or 7) disk brake donor from 1976 through `83 should bolt up, but `79 and up will be better for parts availabilty. Don't forget to include the proportioning valve (located on the inner frame rail below the driver's left foot), and consider dropping the extra money on preformed stainless brake lines. Really, you'll be happy to didn't try to bend them yourself. Article on your Dana 30 front axle: <URL:http://www.jeeptech.com/axle/d30.html>. Dana 30 disk brake conversion how-to: <URL:http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/projects/pieces/front/> Good luck. On Sun, 5 Nov 2006, James Drinkwater wrote: > I'd love to (axle swap) but haven't seen any direct swaps lately. We're > getting into a little different ground too and I'd love to kill two birds > with one stone: stronger, little wider, disc brakes, maybe better gears and > a locker too. But it's gotta be a swap that isn't fabrication-intensive > since I don't have those kind of resources or cash. > Best Regards, > Drink > "Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message > news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0611050955500.6636@panix1.panix .com... >> >> You're driving on front drum brakes with a foot that is used to disks. >> Drums were always weak, and worse when wet. You should consider >> converting the front to disks -- find a donor axle and it should be a >> bolt-up job. >> >> >> On Sun, 29 Oct 2006, James Drinkwater wrote: >> >>> All, >>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based >>> on >>> what others say. >>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, >>> now >>> 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and >>> I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've >>> changed >>> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled >>> them >>> by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the >>> point >>> that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in >>> the >>> rain if I'm lucky. >>> I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new >>> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the >>> start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a >>> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. >>> Regards, >>> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with >> whips....r" >> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. >> > > > -- "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with whips....r" R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
You don't need to swap axles or even a have working donor axle, you just need the parts from the mounting brackets outward. Any CJ (5 or 7) disk brake donor from 1976 through `83 should bolt up, but `79 and up will be better for parts availabilty. Don't forget to include the proportioning valve (located on the inner frame rail below the driver's left foot), and consider dropping the extra money on preformed stainless brake lines. Really, you'll be happy to didn't try to bend them yourself. Article on your Dana 30 front axle: <URL:http://www.jeeptech.com/axle/d30.html>. Dana 30 disk brake conversion how-to: <URL:http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/projects/pieces/front/> Good luck. On Sun, 5 Nov 2006, James Drinkwater wrote: > I'd love to (axle swap) but haven't seen any direct swaps lately. We're > getting into a little different ground too and I'd love to kill two birds > with one stone: stronger, little wider, disc brakes, maybe better gears and > a locker too. But it's gotta be a swap that isn't fabrication-intensive > since I don't have those kind of resources or cash. > Best Regards, > Drink > "Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message > news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0611050955500.6636@panix1.panix .com... >> >> You're driving on front drum brakes with a foot that is used to disks. >> Drums were always weak, and worse when wet. You should consider >> converting the front to disks -- find a donor axle and it should be a >> bolt-up job. >> >> >> On Sun, 29 Oct 2006, James Drinkwater wrote: >> >>> All, >>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based >>> on >>> what others say. >>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, >>> now >>> 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and >>> I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've >>> changed >>> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled >>> them >>> by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the >>> point >>> that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in >>> the >>> rain if I'm lucky. >>> I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new >>> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the >>> start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a >>> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. >>> Regards, >>> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with >> whips....r" >> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. >> > > > -- "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with whips....r" R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. |
Re: Brake Problems: What Could It Be?
You don't need to swap axles or even a have working donor axle, you just need the parts from the mounting brackets outward. Any CJ (5 or 7) disk brake donor from 1976 through `83 should bolt up, but `79 and up will be better for parts availabilty. Don't forget to include the proportioning valve (located on the inner frame rail below the driver's left foot), and consider dropping the extra money on preformed stainless brake lines. Really, you'll be happy to didn't try to bend them yourself. Article on your Dana 30 front axle: <URL:http://www.jeeptech.com/axle/d30.html>. Dana 30 disk brake conversion how-to: <URL:http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/projects/pieces/front/> Good luck. On Sun, 5 Nov 2006, James Drinkwater wrote: > I'd love to (axle swap) but haven't seen any direct swaps lately. We're > getting into a little different ground too and I'd love to kill two birds > with one stone: stronger, little wider, disc brakes, maybe better gears and > a locker too. But it's gotta be a swap that isn't fabrication-intensive > since I don't have those kind of resources or cash. > Best Regards, > Drink > "Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message > news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0611050955500.6636@panix1.panix .com... >> >> You're driving on front drum brakes with a foot that is used to disks. >> Drums were always weak, and worse when wet. You should consider >> converting the front to disks -- find a donor axle and it should be a >> bolt-up job. >> >> >> On Sun, 29 Oct 2006, James Drinkwater wrote: >> >>> All, >>> I've always had weak brakes and think they should be much better based >>> on >>> what others say. >>> I've got a '76 CJ-7 with 11" drums all around. I had 31's, then 33's, >>> now >>> 35's on the rear (might do a turn-around back to 31's 15 years later) and >>> I've seen very little difference 'tween 'em all; always weak. I've >>> changed >>> master cylinder, wheel cylinders, drums and the whole works. I've bled >>> them >>> by gravity, pedal pressure and vacuum pump too. Still, WEAK; to the >>> point >>> that I have to stand on it as hard as I can to get a wheel to lock up in >>> the >>> rain if I'm lucky. >>> I don't think there's a blocked line and everything's practically new >>> minus the proportioning valve. Could the valve be the culprit from the >>> start? Or, should I look for something else? If somebody has a >>> troubleshooting scheme, I'd really appreciate it. >>> Regards, >>> Jim "Comin' Through!!!" Drinkwater >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with >> whips....r" >> R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. >> > > > -- "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with whips....r" R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. |
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