Billy Ray

They (GM) has known about the problems for almost 10 years now the lawsuits
are alleging.

--
Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
..
"Mood" <JimMood@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130198784.709046.61960@f14g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
> Yeah, Greenies, as in I like my coolant to drain out GREEN, not brown
> soup :) I don't think the issue is with the anti-freezing agent, but
> with the anti-corrosion additives and according to the article Prestone
> is changing their formula. I take issue with a product that is marketed
> as a universal coolant replacement that functions as much less than
> that.
>
> I agree I'm a dunce for not checking the condition of the coolant
> sooner. I sure didn't expect coolant that went in bright green to come
> out two years later like brown sludge with my engine block dissolved it
> it. According to the service shop manager I spoke to today, there was
> hardly a hint of green left in it.
>

Earle Horton

Hmm. The last time I bought coolant was in 1999, when I charged the
heating system in my house. I had two cases of no-name Walmart green
antifreeze left over, and this has served me since then. I do not
change or flush coolant. I never have, unless there was an obvious
reason for it, like conspicuous lime deposits in the visible radiator
tubes, or a leak. All of the leaks that I have serviced in this time
have been from known, explicable causes, like a pebble in the radiator
for example. I have always used a 50/50 mix of distilled or known
clean, soft tap water, and ethylene glycol antifreeze. The coolant in
my Jeep is still the same color and consistency as when it was new. It
is ten years old. I knew a guy in 1976 with a 1952 GMC wrecker, that
he claimed had the original factory antifreeze in it.

I gather from this thread that when my case of no-name Walmart runs
out, things could change. At least I won't be required to change the
120 gallons in my home heating system, every two years. Better keep
those fingers crossed.

>From the Prestone web site, the yellow container now sports "New
Prestone® All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant" which
contains "a patented Organic Acid Technology formula". This is
probably a pH buffer, if you took college freshman chemistry. If you
took the lab, you should know that any buffer can be overloaded, by
adding enough base or acid. I don't know the composition of this
stuff, but it's a pretty good bet that it would break down
spontaneously too. I think that the black container, "Prestone® Heavy
Duty Antifreeze/ Coolant", with its "blend of ethylene glycol and a
specially formulated inhibitor package designed for heavy duty cooling
system applications" might be a better buy. They seem to be saying
that "ethylene glycol" = "heavy duty".

Earle

L.W. ------ III (ßill) wrote:
> I stick to the Prestone green with Real ethylene glycol in a yellow
> container: http://www.Prestone.com/ and change it by two years. It has
> been proven this new environmental safe rust colored coolant the
> screaming Greenies have forced the manufactures to use, breaks down
> quickly and electrolysis soon destroys the engine.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Billy Ray wrote:
> >
> > Prestone = Dexcool and is suitable only for vehicles in which you want to
> > replace the engine and cooling systems.
> >
> > You can still get "American Green" 2 year antifreeze which would be
> > acceptable for your '92. That being said it is only $1 a gallon cheaper
> > than the superior, and recommended by DC, G-05 spec antifreeze.
> >
> > You can get the G-05 antifreeze at your local DC dealership, Ford
> > dealership, Mercedes dealership and (in Cincinnati) Pepboys. All the above
> > are manufactured by Valvoline. The Zerex G-05 antifreeze comes in a
> > golden-yellow jug.
> >
> > You cannot get it at AutoZone, Advance Auto Parts, NAPA, Wal-Mart, K-Mart,
> > or Target (in Cincinnati) as they carry Prestone products.
> >
> > If you read the Prestone label they claim to meet DC specs but DC
> > specifically says NOT to use DexCool (OAT) based coolants. Only HOAT based
> > coolants and the only HOAT based is made by Valvoline.
> >
> > I can forward you (anyone) a 3 page excerpt from DC concerning engine
> > coolant. Just send a note with your e-mail address to me below (remove
> > SPAM)
> >
> > --
> > Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
> > 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
> > Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.

Earle Horton

Hmm. The last time I bought coolant was in 1999, when I charged the
heating system in my house. I had two cases of no-name Walmart green
antifreeze left over, and this has served me since then. I do not
change or flush coolant. I never have, unless there was an obvious
reason for it, like conspicuous lime deposits in the visible radiator
tubes, or a leak. All of the leaks that I have serviced in this time
have been from known, explicable causes, like a pebble in the radiator
for example. I have always used a 50/50 mix of distilled or known
clean, soft tap water, and ethylene glycol antifreeze. The coolant in
my Jeep is still the same color and consistency as when it was new. It
is ten years old. I knew a guy in 1976 with a 1952 GMC wrecker, that
he claimed had the original factory antifreeze in it.

I gather from this thread that when my case of no-name Walmart runs
out, things could change. At least I won't be required to change the
120 gallons in my home heating system, every two years. Better keep
those fingers crossed.

>From the Prestone web site, the yellow container now sports "New
Prestone® All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant" which
contains "a patented Organic Acid Technology formula". This is
probably a pH buffer, if you took college freshman chemistry. If you
took the lab, you should know that any buffer can be overloaded, by
adding enough base or acid. I don't know the composition of this
stuff, but it's a pretty good bet that it would break down
spontaneously too. I think that the black container, "Prestone® Heavy
Duty Antifreeze/ Coolant", with its "blend of ethylene glycol and a
specially formulated inhibitor package designed for heavy duty cooling
system applications" might be a better buy. They seem to be saying
that "ethylene glycol" = "heavy duty".

Earle

L.W. ------ III (ßill) wrote:
> I stick to the Prestone green with Real ethylene glycol in a yellow
> container: http://www.Prestone.com/ and change it by two years. It has
> been proven this new environmental safe rust colored coolant the
> screaming Greenies have forced the manufactures to use, breaks down
> quickly and electrolysis soon destroys the engine.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Billy Ray wrote:
> >
> > Prestone = Dexcool and is suitable only for vehicles in which you want to
> > replace the engine and cooling systems.
> >
> > You can still get "American Green" 2 year antifreeze which would be
> > acceptable for your '92. That being said it is only $1 a gallon cheaper
> > than the superior, and recommended by DC, G-05 spec antifreeze.
> >
> > You can get the G-05 antifreeze at your local DC dealership, Ford
> > dealership, Mercedes dealership and (in Cincinnati) Pepboys. All the above
> > are manufactured by Valvoline. The Zerex G-05 antifreeze comes in a
> > golden-yellow jug.
> >
> > You cannot get it at AutoZone, Advance Auto Parts, NAPA, Wal-Mart, K-Mart,
> > or Target (in Cincinnati) as they carry Prestone products.
> >
> > If you read the Prestone label they claim to meet DC specs but DC
> > specifically says NOT to use DexCool (OAT) based coolants. Only HOAT based
> > coolants and the only HOAT based is made by Valvoline.
> >
> > I can forward you (anyone) a 3 page excerpt from DC concerning engine
> > coolant. Just send a note with your e-mail address to me below (remove
> > SPAM)
> >
> > --
> > Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
> > 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
> > Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.

Earle Horton

Hmm. The last time I bought coolant was in 1999, when I charged the
heating system in my house. I had two cases of no-name Walmart green
antifreeze left over, and this has served me since then. I do not
change or flush coolant. I never have, unless there was an obvious
reason for it, like conspicuous lime deposits in the visible radiator
tubes, or a leak. All of the leaks that I have serviced in this time
have been from known, explicable causes, like a pebble in the radiator
for example. I have always used a 50/50 mix of distilled or known
clean, soft tap water, and ethylene glycol antifreeze. The coolant in
my Jeep is still the same color and consistency as when it was new. It
is ten years old. I knew a guy in 1976 with a 1952 GMC wrecker, that
he claimed had the original factory antifreeze in it.

I gather from this thread that when my case of no-name Walmart runs
out, things could change. At least I won't be required to change the
120 gallons in my home heating system, every two years. Better keep
those fingers crossed.

>From the Prestone web site, the yellow container now sports "New
Prestone® All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant" which
contains "a patented Organic Acid Technology formula". This is
probably a pH buffer, if you took college freshman chemistry. If you
took the lab, you should know that any buffer can be overloaded, by
adding enough base or acid. I don't know the composition of this
stuff, but it's a pretty good bet that it would break down
spontaneously too. I think that the black container, "Prestone® Heavy
Duty Antifreeze/ Coolant", with its "blend of ethylene glycol and a
specially formulated inhibitor package designed for heavy duty cooling
system applications" might be a better buy. They seem to be saying
that "ethylene glycol" = "heavy duty".

Earle

L.W. ------ III (ßill) wrote:
> I stick to the Prestone green with Real ethylene glycol in a yellow
> container: http://www.Prestone.com/ and change it by two years. It has
> been proven this new environmental safe rust colored coolant the
> screaming Greenies have forced the manufactures to use, breaks down
> quickly and electrolysis soon destroys the engine.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Billy Ray wrote:
> >
> > Prestone = Dexcool and is suitable only for vehicles in which you want to
> > replace the engine and cooling systems.
> >
> > You can still get "American Green" 2 year antifreeze which would be
> > acceptable for your '92. That being said it is only $1 a gallon cheaper
> > than the superior, and recommended by DC, G-05 spec antifreeze.
> >
> > You can get the G-05 antifreeze at your local DC dealership, Ford
> > dealership, Mercedes dealership and (in Cincinnati) Pepboys. All the above
> > are manufactured by Valvoline. The Zerex G-05 antifreeze comes in a
> > golden-yellow jug.
> >
> > You cannot get it at AutoZone, Advance Auto Parts, NAPA, Wal-Mart, K-Mart,
> > or Target (in Cincinnati) as they carry Prestone products.
> >
> > If you read the Prestone label they claim to meet DC specs but DC
> > specifically says NOT to use DexCool (OAT) based coolants. Only HOAT based
> > coolants and the only HOAT based is made by Valvoline.
> >
> > I can forward you (anyone) a 3 page excerpt from DC concerning engine
> > coolant. Just send a note with your e-mail address to me below (remove
> > SPAM)
> >
> > --
> > Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
> > 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
> > Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.

Mood

"Prestone® All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant"
which
contains "a patented Organic Acid Technology formula". [.....]
I don't know the composition of this
stuff, but it's a pretty good bet that it would break down
spontaneously too."

Earle,
"Prestone All Makes All Models" contains Organic Acid Technology or
"OAT." The factory service manual specifically states that you should
never use this formula in a late model Jeep (Thanks for the info
Billy).

If you read the pdf article I posted and the factory service manual,
HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) G-05 formulation contains both
traditional corrosion inhibitors found in the "Classic American Green"
and also the newer OAT inhibitiors that are found in the newer Dexcool
type formulations. The HOAT (G-05)contains an effective mixture of
both inhibitors. Mixing OAT with "Classic American Green" leaves a
mixture that is unable to properly pH buffer and protect metal surfaces
in the engine.

Furthermore, the article also says that brass and copper are not well
protected by OAT formulations. The block and head freeze plugs are the
major leakage sources in my sitiuation, so I still suspect this
new-fangled Dexcool was used at my last cooling system service.

Bill,
The coolant was flushed and changed by a local Quick Lube in January,
so it's 2 years 2 months according to my maintenance log book. You
could say I'm streching the truth, but I've never seen fluid like this
come out of a cooling system.


-Jim

Mood

"Prestone® All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant"
which
contains "a patented Organic Acid Technology formula". [.....]
I don't know the composition of this
stuff, but it's a pretty good bet that it would break down
spontaneously too."

Earle,
"Prestone All Makes All Models" contains Organic Acid Technology or
"OAT." The factory service manual specifically states that you should
never use this formula in a late model Jeep (Thanks for the info
Billy).

If you read the pdf article I posted and the factory service manual,
HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) G-05 formulation contains both
traditional corrosion inhibitors found in the "Classic American Green"
and also the newer OAT inhibitiors that are found in the newer Dexcool
type formulations. The HOAT (G-05)contains an effective mixture of
both inhibitors. Mixing OAT with "Classic American Green" leaves a
mixture that is unable to properly pH buffer and protect metal surfaces
in the engine.

Furthermore, the article also says that brass and copper are not well
protected by OAT formulations. The block and head freeze plugs are the
major leakage sources in my sitiuation, so I still suspect this
new-fangled Dexcool was used at my last cooling system service.

Bill,
The coolant was flushed and changed by a local Quick Lube in January,
so it's 2 years 2 months according to my maintenance log book. You
could say I'm streching the truth, but I've never seen fluid like this
come out of a cooling system.


-Jim

Mood

"Prestone® All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant"
which
contains "a patented Organic Acid Technology formula". [.....]
I don't know the composition of this
stuff, but it's a pretty good bet that it would break down
spontaneously too."

Earle,
"Prestone All Makes All Models" contains Organic Acid Technology or
"OAT." The factory service manual specifically states that you should
never use this formula in a late model Jeep (Thanks for the info
Billy).

If you read the pdf article I posted and the factory service manual,
HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) G-05 formulation contains both
traditional corrosion inhibitors found in the "Classic American Green"
and also the newer OAT inhibitiors that are found in the newer Dexcool
type formulations. The HOAT (G-05)contains an effective mixture of
both inhibitors. Mixing OAT with "Classic American Green" leaves a
mixture that is unable to properly pH buffer and protect metal surfaces
in the engine.

Furthermore, the article also says that brass and copper are not well
protected by OAT formulations. The block and head freeze plugs are the
major leakage sources in my sitiuation, so I still suspect this
new-fangled Dexcool was used at my last cooling system service.

Bill,
The coolant was flushed and changed by a local Quick Lube in January,
so it's 2 years 2 months according to my maintenance log book. You
could say I'm streching the truth, but I've never seen fluid like this
come out of a cooling system.


-Jim

Billy Ray

I took Bill's comment on the time frame to reflect what often happens to us,
especially those of us over 40 <cough, ahem> where because of hectic lives
(or impending senility) time passes much faster than we expect.

Bill is also aware of the condition caused by failure to maintain vehicles
from back in his Chevron days.

The DexCool caused brown sludge is different than back-in-the day rusty
coolant. Back then you had good coverage for 2 years and then the
protection slowly declined and the cooling system and block would begin to
corrode and rust.

DexCool starts attacking the moment you pour it in. If you read the web
posts you will find a large number of cooling system failures while the
vehicle was still under warranty and although they advertise DexCool as a 5
year coolant they were denying claims over 3 years.

Looking back I wished I had taken some pix of what came out of my '02 and
saved a sample in a glass jar. It was really nasty looking stuff that was
much different in appearance to what I recall from my old gas station days.

Bill,
The coolant was flushed and changed by a local Quick Lube in January,
so it's 2 years 2 months according to my maintenance log book. You
could say I'm streching the truth, but I've never seen fluid like this
come out of a cooling system.


-Jim

Billy Ray

I took Bill's comment on the time frame to reflect what often happens to us,
especially those of us over 40 <cough, ahem> where because of hectic lives
(or impending senility) time passes much faster than we expect.

Bill is also aware of the condition caused by failure to maintain vehicles
from back in his Chevron days.

The DexCool caused brown sludge is different than back-in-the day rusty
coolant. Back then you had good coverage for 2 years and then the
protection slowly declined and the cooling system and block would begin to
corrode and rust.

DexCool starts attacking the moment you pour it in. If you read the web
posts you will find a large number of cooling system failures while the
vehicle was still under warranty and although they advertise DexCool as a 5
year coolant they were denying claims over 3 years.

Looking back I wished I had taken some pix of what came out of my '02 and
saved a sample in a glass jar. It was really nasty looking stuff that was
much different in appearance to what I recall from my old gas station days.

Bill,
The coolant was flushed and changed by a local Quick Lube in January,
so it's 2 years 2 months according to my maintenance log book. You
could say I'm streching the truth, but I've never seen fluid like this
come out of a cooling system.


-Jim

Billy Ray

I took Bill's comment on the time frame to reflect what often happens to us,
especially those of us over 40 <cough, ahem> where because of hectic lives
(or impending senility) time passes much faster than we expect.

Bill is also aware of the condition caused by failure to maintain vehicles
from back in his Chevron days.

The DexCool caused brown sludge is different than back-in-the day rusty
coolant. Back then you had good coverage for 2 years and then the
protection slowly declined and the cooling system and block would begin to
corrode and rust.

DexCool starts attacking the moment you pour it in. If you read the web
posts you will find a large number of cooling system failures while the
vehicle was still under warranty and although they advertise DexCool as a 5
year coolant they were denying claims over 3 years.

Looking back I wished I had taken some pix of what came out of my '02 and
saved a sample in a glass jar. It was really nasty looking stuff that was
much different in appearance to what I recall from my old gas station days.

Bill,
The coolant was flushed and changed by a local Quick Lube in January,
so it's 2 years 2 months according to my maintenance log book. You
could say I'm streching the truth, but I've never seen fluid like this
come out of a cooling system.


-Jim