Perry Gagnon

My 87YJ did that for months. I too went hog wild on rebuilding and
adjustments (twice, first by me and then by the dealer who installed a
big vacuum leak for me at no additional charge!) It was clearly getting
too much gas and manually holding the choke open usually guaranteed
success after I've run it a bit or it sat in the warm sun. Went through
more than one starter for that reason.

I checked the choke linkage for proper operation many times but it
wasn't until I removed the choke I noticed resistance in the linkage on
the other side of the carb. Just enough to allow the choke pull off to
not remove the choke during starting. A close inspection of the choke
shaft showed some oxidation on the shaft in it's bushing.

A healthy dose of carb cleaner on the choke shaft and lots of manual
maneuvering to work it in and it was solved. I guess I could have looked
into pulling the shaft and buffing it clean but it was working from an
external spray. It had reappeared now two more times in the past 12
months. I hit it with gumout again then used silicone spay and worked it
feverishly and it's fixed each time.
I'm not held to emissions here so I'm giving the carter the boot along
with the ignition and computer this winter. These carter's need too much
TLC for my liking.

I hope your problem is just as easily fixed with a little gumout!

Cheers!

Perry

87YJ 36X12.5 MT Baja's

averyislandboy@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> bolts -- so here I am.
>
> I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
>
> Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> sometimes at noon.
>
> The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> but this makes me feel like an idiot.
>
> I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> torture of it all.
>
> A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
>
> Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
>
> Bob Versluys
> Florence, SC
> '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"

Perry Gagnon

My 87YJ did that for months. I too went hog wild on rebuilding and
adjustments (twice, first by me and then by the dealer who installed a
big vacuum leak for me at no additional charge!) It was clearly getting
too much gas and manually holding the choke open usually guaranteed
success after I've run it a bit or it sat in the warm sun. Went through
more than one starter for that reason.

I checked the choke linkage for proper operation many times but it
wasn't until I removed the choke I noticed resistance in the linkage on
the other side of the carb. Just enough to allow the choke pull off to
not remove the choke during starting. A close inspection of the choke
shaft showed some oxidation on the shaft in it's bushing.

A healthy dose of carb cleaner on the choke shaft and lots of manual
maneuvering to work it in and it was solved. I guess I could have looked
into pulling the shaft and buffing it clean but it was working from an
external spray. It had reappeared now two more times in the past 12
months. I hit it with gumout again then used silicone spay and worked it
feverishly and it's fixed each time.
I'm not held to emissions here so I'm giving the carter the boot along
with the ignition and computer this winter. These carter's need too much
TLC for my liking.

I hope your problem is just as easily fixed with a little gumout!

Cheers!

Perry

87YJ 36X12.5 MT Baja's

averyislandboy@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> bolts -- so here I am.
>
> I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
>
> Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> sometimes at noon.
>
> The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> but this makes me feel like an idiot.
>
> I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> torture of it all.
>
> A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
>
> Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
>
> Bob Versluys
> Florence, SC
> '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"

Mike Romain

"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
<snip>
>
> Plugged vent, hmm, interesting idea. That makes some sense, I will
> definitely give it a try. The next time the old carby is apart
> (prolly next weekend) I'll check it over for leaks. Thanks.

Not a hope, the charcoal canister is the vent and the vent for the carb
float bowl. When running they can get a vacuum on them if the filter on
the bottom of the canister gets plugged, but let it sit for 10 minutes,
or crack the gas cap open and away you go. It will 'not' hold a vacuum
for very long. Even mud packed like my first one was when I needed a
hammer and chisel to get the bugger out.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Mike Romain

"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
<snip>
>
> Plugged vent, hmm, interesting idea. That makes some sense, I will
> definitely give it a try. The next time the old carby is apart
> (prolly next weekend) I'll check it over for leaks. Thanks.

Not a hope, the charcoal canister is the vent and the vent for the carb
float bowl. When running they can get a vacuum on them if the filter on
the bottom of the canister gets plugged, but let it sit for 10 minutes,
or crack the gas cap open and away you go. It will 'not' hold a vacuum
for very long. Even mud packed like my first one was when I needed a
hammer and chisel to get the bugger out.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Mike Romain

"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
<snip>
>
> Plugged vent, hmm, interesting idea. That makes some sense, I will
> definitely give it a try. The next time the old carby is apart
> (prolly next weekend) I'll check it over for leaks. Thanks.

Not a hope, the charcoal canister is the vent and the vent for the carb
float bowl. When running they can get a vacuum on them if the filter on
the bottom of the canister gets plugged, but let it sit for 10 minutes,
or crack the gas cap open and away you go. It will 'not' hold a vacuum
for very long. Even mud packed like my first one was when I needed a
hammer and chisel to get the bugger out.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Mike Romain

I am talking vapor lock.

Carbs just don't work. Been there, done that. My filter was in wrong
when I bought my CJ7 and I sometimes had to prime the carb with gas two
or three times to get the pump to suck. It will vrooom, then die.
Shoot some more gas down the carb and vroom again and maybe it will
catch. Sometimes I could get it with out killing the battery so didn't
need to prime it. As soon as the starter slowed, a couple tablespoons
of gas down the carb and away I went.

Try it, it is a sure check for an air locked gas line.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > down or the wrong one.
> >
> > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> >
> > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
>
> The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> the orientation of the return line.
>
> > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > at the back one too...
> >
> I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> times.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > >
> > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > >
> > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > sometimes at noon.
> > >
> > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > >
> > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > torture of it all.
> > >
> > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > >
> > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > >
> > > Bob Versluys
> > > Florence, SC
> > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"

Mike Romain

I am talking vapor lock.

Carbs just don't work. Been there, done that. My filter was in wrong
when I bought my CJ7 and I sometimes had to prime the carb with gas two
or three times to get the pump to suck. It will vrooom, then die.
Shoot some more gas down the carb and vroom again and maybe it will
catch. Sometimes I could get it with out killing the battery so didn't
need to prime it. As soon as the starter slowed, a couple tablespoons
of gas down the carb and away I went.

Try it, it is a sure check for an air locked gas line.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > down or the wrong one.
> >
> > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> >
> > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
>
> The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> the orientation of the return line.
>
> > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > at the back one too...
> >
> I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> times.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > >
> > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > >
> > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > sometimes at noon.
> > >
> > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > >
> > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > torture of it all.
> > >
> > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > >
> > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > >
> > > Bob Versluys
> > > Florence, SC
> > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"

Mike Romain

I am talking vapor lock.

Carbs just don't work. Been there, done that. My filter was in wrong
when I bought my CJ7 and I sometimes had to prime the carb with gas two
or three times to get the pump to suck. It will vrooom, then die.
Shoot some more gas down the carb and vroom again and maybe it will
catch. Sometimes I could get it with out killing the battery so didn't
need to prime it. As soon as the starter slowed, a couple tablespoons
of gas down the carb and away I went.

Try it, it is a sure check for an air locked gas line.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>...
> > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
> > down or the wrong one.
> >
> > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
> > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
> > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
> > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
> > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.
> >
> > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.
>
> The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced.
> I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify
> the orientation of the return line.
>
> > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
> > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
> > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
> > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
> > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
> > at the back one too...
> >
> I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would
> be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid
> there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected
> the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like
> problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of
> times.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> > > bolts -- so here I am.
> > >
> > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
> > >
> > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> > > sometimes at noon.
> > >
> > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> > > but this makes me feel like an idiot.
> > >
> > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> > > torture of it all.
> > >
> > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> > > each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
> > >
> > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
> > >
> > > Bob Versluys
> > > Florence, SC
> > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"

Stephen Cowell

<averyislandboy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a188e6f3.0310061650.1af17786@posting.google.c om...
> I would normally follow the sequence as you described. I'm familiar
> with the working of the pumper jets and the choke. I don't pump the
> gas now, because that only contributes to the flooding problem. I've
> tried holding the throttle open and not even touching the pedal and
> the not-touching thing works better most days.

Aren't the throttle and the pedal the same thing? Or are we
misunderstanding each other?

It shouldn't be too hard to pull a plug... if you're under
the hood, just pop one out. It's not like my '00XJ,
where an entire assembly must come off before you
can even see a plug. It does sound like flooding...
__
Steve
..

Stephen Cowell

<averyislandboy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a188e6f3.0310061650.1af17786@posting.google.c om...
> I would normally follow the sequence as you described. I'm familiar
> with the working of the pumper jets and the choke. I don't pump the
> gas now, because that only contributes to the flooding problem. I've
> tried holding the throttle open and not even touching the pedal and
> the not-touching thing works better most days.

Aren't the throttle and the pedal the same thing? Or are we
misunderstanding each other?

It shouldn't be too hard to pull a plug... if you're under
the hood, just pop one out. It's not like my '00XJ,
where an entire assembly must come off before you
can even see a plug. It does sound like flooding...
__
Steve
..