'88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
 

I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
bolts -- so here I am.

I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).

Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
sometimes at noon.

The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
but this makes me feel like an idiot.

I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
torture of it all.

A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
each new attempt at ultimate correction.
My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.

Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.

Bob Versluys
Florence, SC
'88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"

Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
 

<averyislandboy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a188e6f3.0310051753.11385c@posting.google.com ...
> I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> bolts -- so here I am.
>
> I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
>
> Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> sometimes at noon.
>
> The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> but this makes me feel like an idiot.
>
> I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> torture of it all.
>
> A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
>
> Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
>
> Bob Versluys
> Florence, SC
> '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"

Bob, it sure sounds like your fuel tank is holding pressure because of a
plugged vent or similar problem. You may want to try loosening the filler
cap a bit when you park. I had a vehicle do the same thing and it ended up
being a plugged vent line. About the only other thing I can think of would
be that one of the casting plugs in the carb is leaking fuel. I can't
remember if this carb has them in a place where they could leak fuel into
the engine or not because it has been ages since I've had one apart, but it
is a common problem with the GM Quadrajet carb. the fix for the Q-jet is to
simply epoxy over the plugs with a fuel resistant epoxy.

Chris

Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
 

<averyislandboy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a188e6f3.0310051753.11385c@posting.google.com ...
> I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> bolts -- so here I am.
>
> I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
>
> Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> sometimes at noon.
>
> The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> but this makes me feel like an idiot.
>
> I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> torture of it all.
>
> A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
>
> Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
>
> Bob Versluys
> Florence, SC
> '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"

Bob, it sure sounds like your fuel tank is holding pressure because of a
plugged vent or similar problem. You may want to try loosening the filler
cap a bit when you park. I had a vehicle do the same thing and it ended up
being a plugged vent line. About the only other thing I can think of would
be that one of the casting plugs in the carb is leaking fuel. I can't
remember if this carb has them in a place where they could leak fuel into
the engine or not because it has been ages since I've had one apart, but it
is a common problem with the GM Quadrajet carb. the fix for the Q-jet is to
simply epoxy over the plugs with a fuel resistant epoxy.

Chris

Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
 

<averyislandboy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a188e6f3.0310051753.11385c@posting.google.com ...
> I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> bolts -- so here I am.
>
> I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
>
> Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> sometimes at noon.
>
> The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> but this makes me feel like an idiot.
>
> I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> torture of it all.
>
> A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
>
> Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
>
> Bob Versluys
> Florence, SC
> '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"

Bob, it sure sounds like your fuel tank is holding pressure because of a
plugged vent or similar problem. You may want to try loosening the filler
cap a bit when you park. I had a vehicle do the same thing and it ended up
being a plugged vent line. About the only other thing I can think of would
be that one of the casting plugs in the carb is leaking fuel. I can't
remember if this carb has them in a place where they could leak fuel into
the engine or not because it has been ages since I've had one apart, but it
is a common problem with the GM Quadrajet carb. the fix for the Q-jet is to
simply epoxy over the plugs with a fuel resistant epoxy.

Chris

Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
 

<averyislandboy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a188e6f3.0310051753.11385c@posting.google.com ...
....
> Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.

Please describe your starting regimen to us...
the proper way to start a later-model carbureted
motor is to pump the gas once fully, then release
the pedal. This sets the fast-idle cam and puts
a shot of fuel into the bore. It should catch, then
run at fast idle until the choke pulloff heats up
and you blip the throttle.

Pull a spark plug when in failure mode... see if
it is wet. If it is wet, then you are flooded, and
you must grind the starter with the throttle pressed
fully to the floor to purge the excess fuel. Do not
pump the throttle when flooded... you defeat the
purpose of grinding the motor. Keep the throttle
pressed to the floor, but stop grinding every 20
seconds to allow the starter to cool, for about as
long. If your carb is leaking it's fuel into the engine,
you should smell raw gas in the oil on the dipstick.
Not a good situation for the longevity of your
motor.

On the subject of grinding, you can ruin a good
starter by grinding it for too long. Starters are
not continuous-duty motors, and will give up
the ghost if ground for too long (experience here).

Consider replacing the carb... they won't be
making them much longer, and yours may be
worn out in a way that rebuilding can't help.
__
Steve
..

Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
 

<averyislandboy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a188e6f3.0310051753.11385c@posting.google.com ...
....
> Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.

Please describe your starting regimen to us...
the proper way to start a later-model carbureted
motor is to pump the gas once fully, then release
the pedal. This sets the fast-idle cam and puts
a shot of fuel into the bore. It should catch, then
run at fast idle until the choke pulloff heats up
and you blip the throttle.

Pull a spark plug when in failure mode... see if
it is wet. If it is wet, then you are flooded, and
you must grind the starter with the throttle pressed
fully to the floor to purge the excess fuel. Do not
pump the throttle when flooded... you defeat the
purpose of grinding the motor. Keep the throttle
pressed to the floor, but stop grinding every 20
seconds to allow the starter to cool, for about as
long. If your carb is leaking it's fuel into the engine,
you should smell raw gas in the oil on the dipstick.
Not a good situation for the longevity of your
motor.

On the subject of grinding, you can ruin a good
starter by grinding it for too long. Starters are
not continuous-duty motors, and will give up
the ghost if ground for too long (experience here).

Consider replacing the carb... they won't be
making them much longer, and yours may be
worn out in a way that rebuilding can't help.
__
Steve
..

Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
 

<averyislandboy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a188e6f3.0310051753.11385c@posting.google.com ...
....
> Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.

Please describe your starting regimen to us...
the proper way to start a later-model carbureted
motor is to pump the gas once fully, then release
the pedal. This sets the fast-idle cam and puts
a shot of fuel into the bore. It should catch, then
run at fast idle until the choke pulloff heats up
and you blip the throttle.

Pull a spark plug when in failure mode... see if
it is wet. If it is wet, then you are flooded, and
you must grind the starter with the throttle pressed
fully to the floor to purge the excess fuel. Do not
pump the throttle when flooded... you defeat the
purpose of grinding the motor. Keep the throttle
pressed to the floor, but stop grinding every 20
seconds to allow the starter to cool, for about as
long. If your carb is leaking it's fuel into the engine,
you should smell raw gas in the oil on the dipstick.
Not a good situation for the longevity of your
motor.

On the subject of grinding, you can ruin a good
starter by grinding it for too long. Starters are
not continuous-duty motors, and will give up
the ghost if ground for too long (experience here).

Consider replacing the carb... they won't be
making them much longer, and yours may be
worn out in a way that rebuilding can't help.
__
Steve
..

Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
 

You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
down or the wrong one.

The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.

The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.

A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
at the back one too...

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> bolts -- so here I am.
>
> I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
>
> Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> sometimes at noon.
>
> The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> but this makes me feel like an idiot.
>
> I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> torture of it all.
>
> A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
>
> Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
>
> Bob Versluys
> Florence, SC
> '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"

Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
 

You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
down or the wrong one.

The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.

The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.

A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
at the back one too...

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> bolts -- so here I am.
>
> I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
>
> Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> sometimes at noon.
>
> The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> but this makes me feel like an idiot.
>
> I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> torture of it all.
>
> A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
>
> Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
>
> Bob Versluys
> Florence, SC
> '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"

Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
 

You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside
down or the wrong one.

The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the
carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line
isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock
on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If
they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at.

The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end.

A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the
same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip
out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual
inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line,
usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually
at the back one too...

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably
> replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The
> problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has
> sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at
> the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk
> and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of
> bolts -- so here I am.
>
> I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times
> now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little
> freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent
> to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The
> fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from
> the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires
> are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it
> may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the
> timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose
> plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged).
>
> Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I
> have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes).
> Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30,
> sometimes at noon.
>
> The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I
> took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct
> times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if
> I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before
> I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the
> chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon
> the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work,
> however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the
> freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a
> special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy
> sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I
> always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take
> my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the
> good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes
> bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes
> and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic,
> but this makes me feel like an idiot.
>
> I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old
> siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I
> crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle
> only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat
> of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of
> diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left
> me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean.
> The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most
> days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite
> strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful
> cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it
> lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are
> equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the
> torture of it all.
>
> A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts,
> but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in
> the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the
> original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with
> each new attempt at ultimate correction.
> My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too
> high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake
> throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel
> pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the
> float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the
> float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent
> change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else.
>
> Please share you thoughts, or make an offer.
>
> Bob Versluys
> Florence, SC
> '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie"