Mike Romain

On really steep stuff, I have had to use my e-brake on many occasions to
help in those kind of situations. Not just with Jeeps, pickups were way
worse.

Others have posted about not being able to lock the rears at low speeds.

One Jeep out with us actually lost his rear brakes and wow what a
difference. He literally could not stop the roll back on a ravine
climb. He nailed a tree 3 times in sliding backward and we had to drive
around to give him a pull from the front just to get him out of there.

It is worth inspecting though.

Mike

Bob wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
>
> I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> effective.
>
> This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> front wheels was all that stopped me.
>
> The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> and (b) not out of adjustment.
>
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca>...
> > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > combination valve?
> >
> > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> >
> > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Bob wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent brake
> > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I want
> > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for info
> > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what I
> > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > going on with them a little easier).
> > >
> > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to instructions
> > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be awesome.
> > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I should
> > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > great!
> > >
> > > Thanks everyone.
> > >
> > > /Bob
> > >
> > > Applicable specs:
> > > 1997 TJ
> > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.

Mike Romain

On really steep stuff, I have had to use my e-brake on many occasions to
help in those kind of situations. Not just with Jeeps, pickups were way
worse.

Others have posted about not being able to lock the rears at low speeds.

One Jeep out with us actually lost his rear brakes and wow what a
difference. He literally could not stop the roll back on a ravine
climb. He nailed a tree 3 times in sliding backward and we had to drive
around to give him a pull from the front just to get him out of there.

It is worth inspecting though.

Mike

Bob wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
>
> I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> effective.
>
> This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> front wheels was all that stopped me.
>
> The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> and (b) not out of adjustment.
>
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca>...
> > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > combination valve?
> >
> > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> >
> > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Bob wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent brake
> > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I want
> > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for info
> > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what I
> > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > going on with them a little easier).
> > >
> > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to instructions
> > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be awesome.
> > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I should
> > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > great!
> > >
> > > Thanks everyone.
> > >
> > > /Bob
> > >
> > > Applicable specs:
> > > 1997 TJ
> > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.

Mike Romain

On really steep stuff, I have had to use my e-brake on many occasions to
help in those kind of situations. Not just with Jeeps, pickups were way
worse.

Others have posted about not being able to lock the rears at low speeds.

One Jeep out with us actually lost his rear brakes and wow what a
difference. He literally could not stop the roll back on a ravine
climb. He nailed a tree 3 times in sliding backward and we had to drive
around to give him a pull from the front just to get him out of there.

It is worth inspecting though.

Mike

Bob wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
>
> I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> effective.
>
> This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> front wheels was all that stopped me.
>
> The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> and (b) not out of adjustment.
>
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca>...
> > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > combination valve?
> >
> > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> >
> > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Bob wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent brake
> > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I want
> > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for info
> > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what I
> > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > going on with them a little easier).
> > >
> > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to instructions
> > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be awesome.
> > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I should
> > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > great!
> > >
> > > Thanks everyone.
> > >
> > > /Bob
> > >
> > > Applicable specs:
> > > 1997 TJ
> > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.

SB

Hmm....so, with the limited slip....the whole brake trick to get rid of the
single wheel spin....will that work in 2WD? or only 4??
"mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
news:TK2dncYE8b_WxXzd4p2dnA@gbronline.com...
> Yep. On most cars, the front brakes do about 70% (+) of the braking. On
the
> TJ, because of the extra short wheelbase, the fronts
> do MUCH more of the braking. The rears do very little of the actual
braking.
>
> Try this test. Raise the rear wheels off the ground with a floor jack or
> jack stands. With the engine at IDLE and with the transfer case in 2-wheel
> drive, put the transmission in drive or 1st gear, then try to stop the
rear
> wheels from moving with only the foot brake. On my 6-cyl TJ with 3.73 rear
> axel ratio, it is almost impossible to stop the rears, even while mashing
> the foot brake with all my might. Applying the parking brake will stop the
> rears easily.
>
> Tom
>
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:O94Ec.322$T6i.195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> > Wow...do the front actually do that much?
> >
> > Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
> > actually shared an **** clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed
down
> > and skidded....but all's ok!
> >
> >
> > "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> > news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> > > Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve. It
> > > distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> > > much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's
share
> > of
> > > the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
> > >
> > > Tom
>
>

SB

Hmm....so, with the limited slip....the whole brake trick to get rid of the
single wheel spin....will that work in 2WD? or only 4??
"mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
news:TK2dncYE8b_WxXzd4p2dnA@gbronline.com...
> Yep. On most cars, the front brakes do about 70% (+) of the braking. On
the
> TJ, because of the extra short wheelbase, the fronts
> do MUCH more of the braking. The rears do very little of the actual
braking.
>
> Try this test. Raise the rear wheels off the ground with a floor jack or
> jack stands. With the engine at IDLE and with the transfer case in 2-wheel
> drive, put the transmission in drive or 1st gear, then try to stop the
rear
> wheels from moving with only the foot brake. On my 6-cyl TJ with 3.73 rear
> axel ratio, it is almost impossible to stop the rears, even while mashing
> the foot brake with all my might. Applying the parking brake will stop the
> rears easily.
>
> Tom
>
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:O94Ec.322$T6i.195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> > Wow...do the front actually do that much?
> >
> > Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
> > actually shared an **** clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed
down
> > and skidded....but all's ok!
> >
> >
> > "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> > news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> > > Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve. It
> > > distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> > > much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's
share
> > of
> > > the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
> > >
> > > Tom
>
>

SB

Hmm....so, with the limited slip....the whole brake trick to get rid of the
single wheel spin....will that work in 2WD? or only 4??
"mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
news:TK2dncYE8b_WxXzd4p2dnA@gbronline.com...
> Yep. On most cars, the front brakes do about 70% (+) of the braking. On
the
> TJ, because of the extra short wheelbase, the fronts
> do MUCH more of the braking. The rears do very little of the actual
braking.
>
> Try this test. Raise the rear wheels off the ground with a floor jack or
> jack stands. With the engine at IDLE and with the transfer case in 2-wheel
> drive, put the transmission in drive or 1st gear, then try to stop the
rear
> wheels from moving with only the foot brake. On my 6-cyl TJ with 3.73 rear
> axel ratio, it is almost impossible to stop the rears, even while mashing
> the foot brake with all my might. Applying the parking brake will stop the
> rears easily.
>
> Tom
>
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:O94Ec.322$T6i.195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> > Wow...do the front actually do that much?
> >
> > Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
> > actually shared an **** clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed
down
> > and skidded....but all's ok!
> >
> >
> > "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> > news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> > > Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve. It
> > > distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> > > much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's
share
> > of
> > > the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
> > >
> > > Tom
>
>

SB

Hmm....so, with the limited slip....the whole brake trick to get rid of the
single wheel spin....will that work in 2WD? or only 4??
"mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
news:TK2dncYE8b_WxXzd4p2dnA@gbronline.com...
> Yep. On most cars, the front brakes do about 70% (+) of the braking. On
the
> TJ, because of the extra short wheelbase, the fronts
> do MUCH more of the braking. The rears do very little of the actual
braking.
>
> Try this test. Raise the rear wheels off the ground with a floor jack or
> jack stands. With the engine at IDLE and with the transfer case in 2-wheel
> drive, put the transmission in drive or 1st gear, then try to stop the
rear
> wheels from moving with only the foot brake. On my 6-cyl TJ with 3.73 rear
> axel ratio, it is almost impossible to stop the rears, even while mashing
> the foot brake with all my might. Applying the parking brake will stop the
> rears easily.
>
> Tom
>
> "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:O94Ec.322$T6i.195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> > Wow...do the front actually do that much?
> >
> > Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
> > actually shared an **** clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed
down
> > and skidded....but all's ok!
> >
> >
> > "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> > news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> > > Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve. It
> > > distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> > > much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's
share
> > of
> > > the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
> > >
> > > Tom
>
>

Jerry Bransford

It works in both 4wd and 2wd. This technique works with open axles too,
it's been in use since Model T days when most vehicles got stuck more due to
there being more unpaved roads back then. :)

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
"SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_MkEc.610038$Ar.54344@twister01.bloor.is.net. cable.rogers.com...
> Hmm....so, with the limited slip....the whole brake trick to get rid of
the
> single wheel spin....will that work in 2WD? or only 4??
> "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> news:TK2dncYE8b_WxXzd4p2dnA@gbronline.com...
> > Yep. On most cars, the front brakes do about 70% (+) of the braking. On
> the
> > TJ, because of the extra short wheelbase, the fronts
> > do MUCH more of the braking. The rears do very little of the actual
> braking.
> >
> > Try this test. Raise the rear wheels off the ground with a floor jack or
> > jack stands. With the engine at IDLE and with the transfer case in
2-wheel
> > drive, put the transmission in drive or 1st gear, then try to stop the
> rear
> > wheels from moving with only the foot brake. On my 6-cyl TJ with 3.73
rear
> > axel ratio, it is almost impossible to stop the rears, even while
mashing
> > the foot brake with all my might. Applying the parking brake will stop
the
> > rears easily.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:O94Ec.322$T6i.195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> > > Wow...do the front actually do that much?
> > >
> > > Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
> > > actually shared an **** clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed
> down
> > > and skidded....but all's ok!
> > >
> > >
> > > "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> > > news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> > > > Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve.
It
> > > > distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> > > > much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's
> share
> > > of
> > > > the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> >
> >
>
>

Jerry Bransford

It works in both 4wd and 2wd. This technique works with open axles too,
it's been in use since Model T days when most vehicles got stuck more due to
there being more unpaved roads back then. :)

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
"SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_MkEc.610038$Ar.54344@twister01.bloor.is.net. cable.rogers.com...
> Hmm....so, with the limited slip....the whole brake trick to get rid of
the
> single wheel spin....will that work in 2WD? or only 4??
> "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> news:TK2dncYE8b_WxXzd4p2dnA@gbronline.com...
> > Yep. On most cars, the front brakes do about 70% (+) of the braking. On
> the
> > TJ, because of the extra short wheelbase, the fronts
> > do MUCH more of the braking. The rears do very little of the actual
> braking.
> >
> > Try this test. Raise the rear wheels off the ground with a floor jack or
> > jack stands. With the engine at IDLE and with the transfer case in
2-wheel
> > drive, put the transmission in drive or 1st gear, then try to stop the
> rear
> > wheels from moving with only the foot brake. On my 6-cyl TJ with 3.73
rear
> > axel ratio, it is almost impossible to stop the rears, even while
mashing
> > the foot brake with all my might. Applying the parking brake will stop
the
> > rears easily.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:O94Ec.322$T6i.195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> > > Wow...do the front actually do that much?
> > >
> > > Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
> > > actually shared an **** clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed
> down
> > > and skidded....but all's ok!
> > >
> > >
> > > "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> > > news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> > > > Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve.
It
> > > > distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> > > > much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's
> share
> > > of
> > > > the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> >
> >
>
>

Jerry Bransford

It works in both 4wd and 2wd. This technique works with open axles too,
it's been in use since Model T days when most vehicles got stuck more due to
there being more unpaved roads back then. :)

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
"SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_MkEc.610038$Ar.54344@twister01.bloor.is.net. cable.rogers.com...
> Hmm....so, with the limited slip....the whole brake trick to get rid of
the
> single wheel spin....will that work in 2WD? or only 4??
> "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> news:TK2dncYE8b_WxXzd4p2dnA@gbronline.com...
> > Yep. On most cars, the front brakes do about 70% (+) of the braking. On
> the
> > TJ, because of the extra short wheelbase, the fronts
> > do MUCH more of the braking. The rears do very little of the actual
> braking.
> >
> > Try this test. Raise the rear wheels off the ground with a floor jack or
> > jack stands. With the engine at IDLE and with the transfer case in
2-wheel
> > drive, put the transmission in drive or 1st gear, then try to stop the
> rear
> > wheels from moving with only the foot brake. On my 6-cyl TJ with 3.73
rear
> > axel ratio, it is almost impossible to stop the rears, even while
mashing
> > the foot brake with all my might. Applying the parking brake will stop
the
> > rears easily.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > "SB" <chicbearsmook@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:O94Ec.322$T6i.195@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> > > Wow...do the front actually do that much?
> > >
> > > Sure feels like it the way the front dives down....
> > > actually shared an **** clenching experience with a dog today! Nosed
> down
> > > and skidded....but all's ok!
> > >
> > >
> > > "mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message
> > > news:W-OdnQ9Kgs_ZK33dRVn-sA@gbronline.com...
> > > > Exactly. A combination valve is also called a proportioning valve.
It
> > > > distributes the braking power heavily to the front brakes and
> > > > much less so to the rears. On a TJ, the front brakes do the lion's
> share
> > > of
> > > > the braking, probably 80 to 90%.
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> >
> >
>
>