Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
I do appreciate the comments. However, I do understand the utility of
the low range for slowing down the movement of the axles. In the case
I described, though, the issue would have occured regardless of
whether I was in high or low range, as it occurred when I was going
forward, then had to stop and put the clutch in. If I had been in
4low, I still would have rolled backward in the same way when I
stopped my forward motion and put the clutch in. It's not like I
would've tried to hurry and put it in reverse to use the engine
braking; I expect, when I'm at a near standstill trying to go forward,
that if I push in the clutch and the brake at the same time to stop,
I'm not going to randomly roll back ten feet if I don't slam the thing
into reverse and pull the clutch out as some sort of preventative
measure.
Your statement was not bad advice by any means, just not applicable to
the situation I was in. (This trail was not difficult, either; I'd
been in 2wd for awhile so I could move faster; I don't like running in
3rd and 4th gear while in low range...my 4.56 diff gearing makes it
difficult to keep up on an easy faster paced trail if I stay in low
range sometimes.) Sure, I probably should have shifted into 4-low
before trying the rocks (I could tell I'd probably not make it in
2-high), but I was in the mood to play a little and give it a shot in
2wd for kicks. I was surprised by the resulting brake crapping out
when I had to give up and wanted to shift into 4-low, though.
/Bob
"mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message news:<aIidnWg5F6f7lH_d4p2dnA@gbronline.com>...
> Hi Bob:
>
> Drum brakes have a "self-energizing" action while braking in forward mode.
> The brake shoes actually "dig into" the drum harder when braking in forward
> motion. There is no "self-energizing action" in rear motion braking on
> drums. So when braking when backing down a hill for example you have almost
> NO rear braking action. Applying the parking brake will help but you want to
> be very careful doing that as that can easily lock up the rears which might
> cause complete loss of vehicle control.
>
> If you are in 4-hi or 4-lo on a part-time 4-wheel drive system like the TJ
> or YJ, the front and rear axels are mechanically locked together and the
> front brakes will actually stop the rear wheels through the drive train.
> It's very important for good vehicle control on off-road hills to be in 4-
> wheel drive, preferably low range. That way the engine does most of the
> braking and brakes all 4 wheels through the drive train and you can just
> apply gentle pressure to the brake pedal to control the descent WITHOUT
> locking up the wheels and loosing control.
>
> Tom
>
> "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:47b769ae.0406290542.39c0c1a4@posting.google.c om...
> > I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
> >
> > I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> > has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> > suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> > than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> > I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> > effective.
> >
> > This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> > incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> > tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> > order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> > soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> > 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> > I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> > in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> > rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> > doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> > front wheels was all that stopped me.
> >
> > The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> > I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> > and (b) not out of adjustment.
> >
the low range for slowing down the movement of the axles. In the case
I described, though, the issue would have occured regardless of
whether I was in high or low range, as it occurred when I was going
forward, then had to stop and put the clutch in. If I had been in
4low, I still would have rolled backward in the same way when I
stopped my forward motion and put the clutch in. It's not like I
would've tried to hurry and put it in reverse to use the engine
braking; I expect, when I'm at a near standstill trying to go forward,
that if I push in the clutch and the brake at the same time to stop,
I'm not going to randomly roll back ten feet if I don't slam the thing
into reverse and pull the clutch out as some sort of preventative
measure.
Your statement was not bad advice by any means, just not applicable to
the situation I was in. (This trail was not difficult, either; I'd
been in 2wd for awhile so I could move faster; I don't like running in
3rd and 4th gear while in low range...my 4.56 diff gearing makes it
difficult to keep up on an easy faster paced trail if I stay in low
range sometimes.) Sure, I probably should have shifted into 4-low
before trying the rocks (I could tell I'd probably not make it in
2-high), but I was in the mood to play a little and give it a shot in
2wd for kicks. I was surprised by the resulting brake crapping out
when I had to give up and wanted to shift into 4-low, though.
/Bob
"mabar" <mabar@NoSpamgrbonline.com> wrote in message news:<aIidnWg5F6f7lH_d4p2dnA@gbronline.com>...
> Hi Bob:
>
> Drum brakes have a "self-energizing" action while braking in forward mode.
> The brake shoes actually "dig into" the drum harder when braking in forward
> motion. There is no "self-energizing action" in rear motion braking on
> drums. So when braking when backing down a hill for example you have almost
> NO rear braking action. Applying the parking brake will help but you want to
> be very careful doing that as that can easily lock up the rears which might
> cause complete loss of vehicle control.
>
> If you are in 4-hi or 4-lo on a part-time 4-wheel drive system like the TJ
> or YJ, the front and rear axels are mechanically locked together and the
> front brakes will actually stop the rear wheels through the drive train.
> It's very important for good vehicle control on off-road hills to be in 4-
> wheel drive, preferably low range. That way the engine does most of the
> braking and brakes all 4 wheels through the drive train and you can just
> apply gentle pressure to the brake pedal to control the descent WITHOUT
> locking up the wheels and loosing control.
>
> Tom
>
> "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:47b769ae.0406290542.39c0c1a4@posting.google.c om...
> > I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
> >
> > I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> > has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> > suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> > than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> > I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> > effective.
> >
> > This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> > incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> > tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> > order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> > soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> > 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> > I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> > in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> > rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> > doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> > front wheels was all that stopped me.
> >
> > The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> > I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> > and (b) not out of adjustment.
> >
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
If your brakes are working, they will self adjust when you go in reverse
and hit the brakes.
The state of the emergency brake handle tells you the adjustment
usually. If it is higher than normal, the rears could need adjusting or
replacing.
Otherwise, you can jack up the wheel and remove the rubber grommet and
turn the star wheel until the drum starts to grab. You then back it off
a couple clicks, this takes a second screwdriver poked inside to release
the top bar.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Bob wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the little "star" adjustment thingy or whatever?
> How do I adjust this? I seem to remember seeing the guy at the brake
> shop stick a screwdriver through the backing plate somewhere, but I
> don't want to just randomly stick a screwdriver through one of the
> backing plate holes without knowing what I'm aiming for ;-)
>
> Thanks
>
> "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10e40r55hdoc08f@corp.supernews.com>...
> > It sounds like you just need to adjust the brakes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> > news:47b769ae.0406290542.39c0c1a4@posting.google.c om...
> > > I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
> > >
> > > I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> > > has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> > > suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> > > than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> > > I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> > > effective.
> > >
> > > This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> > > incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> > > tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> > > order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> > > soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> > > 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> > > I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> > > in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> > > rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> > > doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> > > front wheels was all that stopped me.
> > >
> > > The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> > > I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> > > and (b) not out of adjustment.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:<40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > > combination valve?
> > > >
> > > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > > >
> > > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > Bob wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent brake
> > > > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I want
> > > > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for info
> > > > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what I
> > > > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > > > going on with them a little easier).
> > > > >
> > > > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to instructions
> > > > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be awesome.
> > > > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I should
> > > > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > > > great!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Bob
> > > > >
> > > > > Applicable specs:
> > > > > 1997 TJ
> > > > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.
and hit the brakes.
The state of the emergency brake handle tells you the adjustment
usually. If it is higher than normal, the rears could need adjusting or
replacing.
Otherwise, you can jack up the wheel and remove the rubber grommet and
turn the star wheel until the drum starts to grab. You then back it off
a couple clicks, this takes a second screwdriver poked inside to release
the top bar.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Bob wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the little "star" adjustment thingy or whatever?
> How do I adjust this? I seem to remember seeing the guy at the brake
> shop stick a screwdriver through the backing plate somewhere, but I
> don't want to just randomly stick a screwdriver through one of the
> backing plate holes without knowing what I'm aiming for ;-)
>
> Thanks
>
> "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10e40r55hdoc08f@corp.supernews.com>...
> > It sounds like you just need to adjust the brakes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> > news:47b769ae.0406290542.39c0c1a4@posting.google.c om...
> > > I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
> > >
> > > I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> > > has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> > > suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> > > than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> > > I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> > > effective.
> > >
> > > This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> > > incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> > > tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> > > order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> > > soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> > > 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> > > I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> > > in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> > > rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> > > doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> > > front wheels was all that stopped me.
> > >
> > > The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> > > I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> > > and (b) not out of adjustment.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:<40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > > combination valve?
> > > >
> > > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > > >
> > > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > Bob wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent brake
> > > > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I want
> > > > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for info
> > > > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what I
> > > > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > > > going on with them a little easier).
> > > > >
> > > > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to instructions
> > > > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be awesome.
> > > > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I should
> > > > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > > > great!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Bob
> > > > >
> > > > > Applicable specs:
> > > > > 1997 TJ
> > > > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
If your brakes are working, they will self adjust when you go in reverse
and hit the brakes.
The state of the emergency brake handle tells you the adjustment
usually. If it is higher than normal, the rears could need adjusting or
replacing.
Otherwise, you can jack up the wheel and remove the rubber grommet and
turn the star wheel until the drum starts to grab. You then back it off
a couple clicks, this takes a second screwdriver poked inside to release
the top bar.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Bob wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the little "star" adjustment thingy or whatever?
> How do I adjust this? I seem to remember seeing the guy at the brake
> shop stick a screwdriver through the backing plate somewhere, but I
> don't want to just randomly stick a screwdriver through one of the
> backing plate holes without knowing what I'm aiming for ;-)
>
> Thanks
>
> "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10e40r55hdoc08f@corp.supernews.com>...
> > It sounds like you just need to adjust the brakes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> > news:47b769ae.0406290542.39c0c1a4@posting.google.c om...
> > > I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
> > >
> > > I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> > > has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> > > suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> > > than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> > > I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> > > effective.
> > >
> > > This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> > > incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> > > tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> > > order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> > > soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> > > 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> > > I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> > > in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> > > rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> > > doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> > > front wheels was all that stopped me.
> > >
> > > The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> > > I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> > > and (b) not out of adjustment.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:<40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > > combination valve?
> > > >
> > > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > > >
> > > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > Bob wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent brake
> > > > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I want
> > > > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for info
> > > > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what I
> > > > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > > > going on with them a little easier).
> > > > >
> > > > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to instructions
> > > > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be awesome.
> > > > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I should
> > > > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > > > great!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Bob
> > > > >
> > > > > Applicable specs:
> > > > > 1997 TJ
> > > > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.
and hit the brakes.
The state of the emergency brake handle tells you the adjustment
usually. If it is higher than normal, the rears could need adjusting or
replacing.
Otherwise, you can jack up the wheel and remove the rubber grommet and
turn the star wheel until the drum starts to grab. You then back it off
a couple clicks, this takes a second screwdriver poked inside to release
the top bar.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Bob wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the little "star" adjustment thingy or whatever?
> How do I adjust this? I seem to remember seeing the guy at the brake
> shop stick a screwdriver through the backing plate somewhere, but I
> don't want to just randomly stick a screwdriver through one of the
> backing plate holes without knowing what I'm aiming for ;-)
>
> Thanks
>
> "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10e40r55hdoc08f@corp.supernews.com>...
> > It sounds like you just need to adjust the brakes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> > news:47b769ae.0406290542.39c0c1a4@posting.google.c om...
> > > I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
> > >
> > > I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> > > has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> > > suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> > > than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> > > I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> > > effective.
> > >
> > > This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> > > incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> > > tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> > > order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> > > soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> > > 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> > > I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> > > in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> > > rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> > > doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> > > front wheels was all that stopped me.
> > >
> > > The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> > > I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> > > and (b) not out of adjustment.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:<40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > > combination valve?
> > > >
> > > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > > >
> > > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > Bob wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent brake
> > > > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I want
> > > > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for info
> > > > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what I
> > > > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > > > going on with them a little easier).
> > > > >
> > > > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to instructions
> > > > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be awesome.
> > > > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I should
> > > > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > > > great!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Bob
> > > > >
> > > > > Applicable specs:
> > > > > 1997 TJ
> > > > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
If your brakes are working, they will self adjust when you go in reverse
and hit the brakes.
The state of the emergency brake handle tells you the adjustment
usually. If it is higher than normal, the rears could need adjusting or
replacing.
Otherwise, you can jack up the wheel and remove the rubber grommet and
turn the star wheel until the drum starts to grab. You then back it off
a couple clicks, this takes a second screwdriver poked inside to release
the top bar.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Bob wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the little "star" adjustment thingy or whatever?
> How do I adjust this? I seem to remember seeing the guy at the brake
> shop stick a screwdriver through the backing plate somewhere, but I
> don't want to just randomly stick a screwdriver through one of the
> backing plate holes without knowing what I'm aiming for ;-)
>
> Thanks
>
> "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10e40r55hdoc08f@corp.supernews.com>...
> > It sounds like you just need to adjust the brakes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> > news:47b769ae.0406290542.39c0c1a4@posting.google.c om...
> > > I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
> > >
> > > I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> > > has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> > > suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> > > than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> > > I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> > > effective.
> > >
> > > This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> > > incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> > > tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> > > order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> > > soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> > > 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> > > I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> > > in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> > > rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> > > doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> > > front wheels was all that stopped me.
> > >
> > > The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> > > I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> > > and (b) not out of adjustment.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:<40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > > combination valve?
> > > >
> > > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > > >
> > > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > Bob wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent brake
> > > > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I want
> > > > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for info
> > > > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what I
> > > > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > > > going on with them a little easier).
> > > > >
> > > > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to instructions
> > > > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be awesome.
> > > > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I should
> > > > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > > > great!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Bob
> > > > >
> > > > > Applicable specs:
> > > > > 1997 TJ
> > > > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.
and hit the brakes.
The state of the emergency brake handle tells you the adjustment
usually. If it is higher than normal, the rears could need adjusting or
replacing.
Otherwise, you can jack up the wheel and remove the rubber grommet and
turn the star wheel until the drum starts to grab. You then back it off
a couple clicks, this takes a second screwdriver poked inside to release
the top bar.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Bob wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the little "star" adjustment thingy or whatever?
> How do I adjust this? I seem to remember seeing the guy at the brake
> shop stick a screwdriver through the backing plate somewhere, but I
> don't want to just randomly stick a screwdriver through one of the
> backing plate holes without knowing what I'm aiming for ;-)
>
> Thanks
>
> "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10e40r55hdoc08f@corp.supernews.com>...
> > It sounds like you just need to adjust the brakes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> > news:47b769ae.0406290542.39c0c1a4@posting.google.c om...
> > > I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
> > >
> > > I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> > > has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> > > suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> > > than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> > > I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> > > effective.
> > >
> > > This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> > > incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> > > tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> > > order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> > > soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> > > 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> > > I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> > > in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> > > rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> > > doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> > > front wheels was all that stopped me.
> > >
> > > The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> > > I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> > > and (b) not out of adjustment.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:<40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > > combination valve?
> > > >
> > > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > > >
> > > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > Bob wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent brake
> > > > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I want
> > > > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for info
> > > > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what I
> > > > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > > > going on with them a little easier).
> > > > >
> > > > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to instructions
> > > > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be awesome.
> > > > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I should
> > > > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > > > great!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Bob
> > > > >
> > > > > Applicable specs:
> > > > > 1997 TJ
> > > > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
If your brakes are working, they will self adjust when you go in reverse
and hit the brakes.
The state of the emergency brake handle tells you the adjustment
usually. If it is higher than normal, the rears could need adjusting or
replacing.
Otherwise, you can jack up the wheel and remove the rubber grommet and
turn the star wheel until the drum starts to grab. You then back it off
a couple clicks, this takes a second screwdriver poked inside to release
the top bar.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Bob wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the little "star" adjustment thingy or whatever?
> How do I adjust this? I seem to remember seeing the guy at the brake
> shop stick a screwdriver through the backing plate somewhere, but I
> don't want to just randomly stick a screwdriver through one of the
> backing plate holes without knowing what I'm aiming for ;-)
>
> Thanks
>
> "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10e40r55hdoc08f@corp.supernews.com>...
> > It sounds like you just need to adjust the brakes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> > news:47b769ae.0406290542.39c0c1a4@posting.google.c om...
> > > I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
> > >
> > > I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> > > has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> > > suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> > > than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> > > I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> > > effective.
> > >
> > > This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> > > incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> > > tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> > > order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> > > soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> > > 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> > > I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> > > in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> > > rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> > > doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> > > front wheels was all that stopped me.
> > >
> > > The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> > > I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> > > and (b) not out of adjustment.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:<40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > > combination valve?
> > > >
> > > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > > >
> > > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > Bob wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent brake
> > > > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I want
> > > > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for info
> > > > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what I
> > > > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > > > going on with them a little easier).
> > > > >
> > > > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to instructions
> > > > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be awesome.
> > > > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I should
> > > > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > > > great!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Bob
> > > > >
> > > > > Applicable specs:
> > > > > 1997 TJ
> > > > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.
and hit the brakes.
The state of the emergency brake handle tells you the adjustment
usually. If it is higher than normal, the rears could need adjusting or
replacing.
Otherwise, you can jack up the wheel and remove the rubber grommet and
turn the star wheel until the drum starts to grab. You then back it off
a couple clicks, this takes a second screwdriver poked inside to release
the top bar.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Bob wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the little "star" adjustment thingy or whatever?
> How do I adjust this? I seem to remember seeing the guy at the brake
> shop stick a screwdriver through the backing plate somewhere, but I
> don't want to just randomly stick a screwdriver through one of the
> backing plate holes without knowing what I'm aiming for ;-)
>
> Thanks
>
> "CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<10e40r55hdoc08f@corp.supernews.com>...
> > It sounds like you just need to adjust the brakes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> > news:47b769ae.0406290542.39c0c1a4@posting.google.c om...
> > > I'm pretty sure it's not just that.
> > >
> > > I've been getting a seat-of-the-pants feeling that my braking power
> > > has diminished of late; on the highway when traffic has stopped
> > > suddenly, I've found myself having to smash down on the brakes harder
> > > than before to get the jeep to stop in the same amount of time. While
> > > I can still lock the front up, it just doesn't seem to be as
> > > effective.
> > >
> > > This last weekend on the trail was my final straw: I was on a slight
> > > incline, and tried to go up a couple of rocks (I was in 2wd), and spun
> > > tires. So, I put the clutch in and hit the brake simultaneously, in
> > > order to put it in 4-low to get through the little bit of rocks. As
> > > soon as the clutch was in, the vehicle proceeded to roll back about
> > > 10+ feet, with me standing on the brake pedal (in retrospect, perhaps
> > > I should have pumped it). Either way, it was a bit freaky. The others
> > > in my group said my front wheels were locked up, but my rears were
> > > rolling, as I just rolled backward. It was like my rear brakes were
> > > doing nothing, and just the locking-up and subsequent dragging of my
> > > front wheels was all that stopped me.
> > >
> > > The braking improved a bit as the day progressed, but I decided maybe
> > > I'd better check and see if the brakes were (a) in good shape still
> > > and (b) not out of adjustment.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:<40E08500.A9E6738F@sympatico.ca>...
> > > > Are you sure you aren't just seeing the effects of a properly working
> > > > combination valve?
> > > >
> > > > It acts like an anti lock brake for the rear wheels so they don't lock
> > > > up easy if at all. Normally you don't want the rears locking, you can
> > > > do 360's faster than you can blink if the rears lock up at speed.
> > > >
> > > > The combination valve stops them from locking until you are almost
> > > > stopped even if you really mash the pedal down.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > Bob wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey...I am about to pull my brakes apart due to some persistent brake
> > > > > fade issues (dry or wet) I've been having with my rear brakes; I want
> > > > > to make sure everything is ok/fix whatever's wrong with them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I'm going to start scouring the 'Net tonight to look for info
> > > > > how to work on brakes, diagrams, instructions, etc., especially for
> > > > > the rear drums (the front discs are more straight-forward from what I
> > > > > understand, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure out what's
> > > > > going on with them a little easier).
> > > > >
> > > > > So, if anyone out there can provide me with any links to instructions
> > > > > they've found particularly useful in the past, that would be awesome.
> > > > > Pictures and diagrams are great, too. Bill, if you feel inclined to
> > > > > put up a link to the appropriate section from the FSM or something,
> > > > > that'd be awesome too. Also, any tips or suggestions what all I should
> > > > > do when servicing and checking my brakes (beyond the obvious
> > > > > inspection and replacement if necessary of the pads...) would be
> > > > > great!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Bob
> > > > >
> > > > > Applicable specs:
> > > > > 1997 TJ
> > > > > Dana 44 Rear (drum brakes)
> > > > > Dana 30 Front (disc brakes)
> > > > > Stock brakes front and rear.
> > > > > Last brake service performed 15 months ago.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
Bob:
I think my statement was applicable to your situation. You said you were in
2-WD, so you could move faster. You really should have been in 4-HI, that
way you could still have moved just as fast, as long as you were on dirt,
gravel, mud, etc., (anything but hi traction pavement.)
If you had been in 4-HI, your front and rear axels would still be
mechanically locked together through the drive train, even when you put the
clutch in. Applying the foot brake would have transferred braking power from
the fronts to the rears, thus preventing that uncontrollable slide to the
rear with the front brakes (only) locked, even if you had the clutch in.
Tom
"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0406301501.37a7b353@posting.google.c om...
> I do appreciate the comments. However, I do understand the utility of
> the low range for slowing down the movement of the axles. In the case
> I described, though, the issue would have occured regardless of
> whether I was in high or low range, as it occurred when I was going
> forward, then had to stop and put the clutch in. If I had been in
> 4low, I still would have rolled backward in the same way when I
> stopped my forward motion and put the clutch in. It's not like I
> would've tried to hurry and put it in reverse to use the engine
> braking; I expect, when I'm at a near standstill trying to go forward,
> that if I push in the clutch and the brake at the same time to stop,
> I'm not going to randomly roll back ten feet if I don't slam the thing
> into reverse and pull the clutch out as some sort of preventative
> measure.
>
> Your statement was not bad advice by any means, just not applicable to
> the situation I was in. (This trail was not difficult, either; I'd
> been in 2wd for awhile so I could move faster; I don't like running in
> 3rd and 4th gear while in low range...my 4.56 diff gearing makes it
> difficult to keep up on an easy faster paced trail if I stay in low
> range sometimes.) Sure, I probably should have shifted into 4-low
> before trying the rocks (I could tell I'd probably not make it in
> 2-high), but I was in the mood to play a little and give it a shot in
> 2wd for kicks. I was surprised by the resulting brake crapping out
> when I had to give up and wanted to shift into 4-low, though.
>
> /Bob
>
>
I think my statement was applicable to your situation. You said you were in
2-WD, so you could move faster. You really should have been in 4-HI, that
way you could still have moved just as fast, as long as you were on dirt,
gravel, mud, etc., (anything but hi traction pavement.)
If you had been in 4-HI, your front and rear axels would still be
mechanically locked together through the drive train, even when you put the
clutch in. Applying the foot brake would have transferred braking power from
the fronts to the rears, thus preventing that uncontrollable slide to the
rear with the front brakes (only) locked, even if you had the clutch in.
Tom
"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0406301501.37a7b353@posting.google.c om...
> I do appreciate the comments. However, I do understand the utility of
> the low range for slowing down the movement of the axles. In the case
> I described, though, the issue would have occured regardless of
> whether I was in high or low range, as it occurred when I was going
> forward, then had to stop and put the clutch in. If I had been in
> 4low, I still would have rolled backward in the same way when I
> stopped my forward motion and put the clutch in. It's not like I
> would've tried to hurry and put it in reverse to use the engine
> braking; I expect, when I'm at a near standstill trying to go forward,
> that if I push in the clutch and the brake at the same time to stop,
> I'm not going to randomly roll back ten feet if I don't slam the thing
> into reverse and pull the clutch out as some sort of preventative
> measure.
>
> Your statement was not bad advice by any means, just not applicable to
> the situation I was in. (This trail was not difficult, either; I'd
> been in 2wd for awhile so I could move faster; I don't like running in
> 3rd and 4th gear while in low range...my 4.56 diff gearing makes it
> difficult to keep up on an easy faster paced trail if I stay in low
> range sometimes.) Sure, I probably should have shifted into 4-low
> before trying the rocks (I could tell I'd probably not make it in
> 2-high), but I was in the mood to play a little and give it a shot in
> 2wd for kicks. I was surprised by the resulting brake crapping out
> when I had to give up and wanted to shift into 4-low, though.
>
> /Bob
>
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
Bob:
I think my statement was applicable to your situation. You said you were in
2-WD, so you could move faster. You really should have been in 4-HI, that
way you could still have moved just as fast, as long as you were on dirt,
gravel, mud, etc., (anything but hi traction pavement.)
If you had been in 4-HI, your front and rear axels would still be
mechanically locked together through the drive train, even when you put the
clutch in. Applying the foot brake would have transferred braking power from
the fronts to the rears, thus preventing that uncontrollable slide to the
rear with the front brakes (only) locked, even if you had the clutch in.
Tom
"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0406301501.37a7b353@posting.google.c om...
> I do appreciate the comments. However, I do understand the utility of
> the low range for slowing down the movement of the axles. In the case
> I described, though, the issue would have occured regardless of
> whether I was in high or low range, as it occurred when I was going
> forward, then had to stop and put the clutch in. If I had been in
> 4low, I still would have rolled backward in the same way when I
> stopped my forward motion and put the clutch in. It's not like I
> would've tried to hurry and put it in reverse to use the engine
> braking; I expect, when I'm at a near standstill trying to go forward,
> that if I push in the clutch and the brake at the same time to stop,
> I'm not going to randomly roll back ten feet if I don't slam the thing
> into reverse and pull the clutch out as some sort of preventative
> measure.
>
> Your statement was not bad advice by any means, just not applicable to
> the situation I was in. (This trail was not difficult, either; I'd
> been in 2wd for awhile so I could move faster; I don't like running in
> 3rd and 4th gear while in low range...my 4.56 diff gearing makes it
> difficult to keep up on an easy faster paced trail if I stay in low
> range sometimes.) Sure, I probably should have shifted into 4-low
> before trying the rocks (I could tell I'd probably not make it in
> 2-high), but I was in the mood to play a little and give it a shot in
> 2wd for kicks. I was surprised by the resulting brake crapping out
> when I had to give up and wanted to shift into 4-low, though.
>
> /Bob
>
>
I think my statement was applicable to your situation. You said you were in
2-WD, so you could move faster. You really should have been in 4-HI, that
way you could still have moved just as fast, as long as you were on dirt,
gravel, mud, etc., (anything but hi traction pavement.)
If you had been in 4-HI, your front and rear axels would still be
mechanically locked together through the drive train, even when you put the
clutch in. Applying the foot brake would have transferred braking power from
the fronts to the rears, thus preventing that uncontrollable slide to the
rear with the front brakes (only) locked, even if you had the clutch in.
Tom
"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0406301501.37a7b353@posting.google.c om...
> I do appreciate the comments. However, I do understand the utility of
> the low range for slowing down the movement of the axles. In the case
> I described, though, the issue would have occured regardless of
> whether I was in high or low range, as it occurred when I was going
> forward, then had to stop and put the clutch in. If I had been in
> 4low, I still would have rolled backward in the same way when I
> stopped my forward motion and put the clutch in. It's not like I
> would've tried to hurry and put it in reverse to use the engine
> braking; I expect, when I'm at a near standstill trying to go forward,
> that if I push in the clutch and the brake at the same time to stop,
> I'm not going to randomly roll back ten feet if I don't slam the thing
> into reverse and pull the clutch out as some sort of preventative
> measure.
>
> Your statement was not bad advice by any means, just not applicable to
> the situation I was in. (This trail was not difficult, either; I'd
> been in 2wd for awhile so I could move faster; I don't like running in
> 3rd and 4th gear while in low range...my 4.56 diff gearing makes it
> difficult to keep up on an easy faster paced trail if I stay in low
> range sometimes.) Sure, I probably should have shifted into 4-low
> before trying the rocks (I could tell I'd probably not make it in
> 2-high), but I was in the mood to play a little and give it a shot in
> 2wd for kicks. I was surprised by the resulting brake crapping out
> when I had to give up and wanted to shift into 4-low, though.
>
> /Bob
>
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
Bob:
I think my statement was applicable to your situation. You said you were in
2-WD, so you could move faster. You really should have been in 4-HI, that
way you could still have moved just as fast, as long as you were on dirt,
gravel, mud, etc., (anything but hi traction pavement.)
If you had been in 4-HI, your front and rear axels would still be
mechanically locked together through the drive train, even when you put the
clutch in. Applying the foot brake would have transferred braking power from
the fronts to the rears, thus preventing that uncontrollable slide to the
rear with the front brakes (only) locked, even if you had the clutch in.
Tom
"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0406301501.37a7b353@posting.google.c om...
> I do appreciate the comments. However, I do understand the utility of
> the low range for slowing down the movement of the axles. In the case
> I described, though, the issue would have occured regardless of
> whether I was in high or low range, as it occurred when I was going
> forward, then had to stop and put the clutch in. If I had been in
> 4low, I still would have rolled backward in the same way when I
> stopped my forward motion and put the clutch in. It's not like I
> would've tried to hurry and put it in reverse to use the engine
> braking; I expect, when I'm at a near standstill trying to go forward,
> that if I push in the clutch and the brake at the same time to stop,
> I'm not going to randomly roll back ten feet if I don't slam the thing
> into reverse and pull the clutch out as some sort of preventative
> measure.
>
> Your statement was not bad advice by any means, just not applicable to
> the situation I was in. (This trail was not difficult, either; I'd
> been in 2wd for awhile so I could move faster; I don't like running in
> 3rd and 4th gear while in low range...my 4.56 diff gearing makes it
> difficult to keep up on an easy faster paced trail if I stay in low
> range sometimes.) Sure, I probably should have shifted into 4-low
> before trying the rocks (I could tell I'd probably not make it in
> 2-high), but I was in the mood to play a little and give it a shot in
> 2wd for kicks. I was surprised by the resulting brake crapping out
> when I had to give up and wanted to shift into 4-low, though.
>
> /Bob
>
>
I think my statement was applicable to your situation. You said you were in
2-WD, so you could move faster. You really should have been in 4-HI, that
way you could still have moved just as fast, as long as you were on dirt,
gravel, mud, etc., (anything but hi traction pavement.)
If you had been in 4-HI, your front and rear axels would still be
mechanically locked together through the drive train, even when you put the
clutch in. Applying the foot brake would have transferred braking power from
the fronts to the rears, thus preventing that uncontrollable slide to the
rear with the front brakes (only) locked, even if you had the clutch in.
Tom
"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0406301501.37a7b353@posting.google.c om...
> I do appreciate the comments. However, I do understand the utility of
> the low range for slowing down the movement of the axles. In the case
> I described, though, the issue would have occured regardless of
> whether I was in high or low range, as it occurred when I was going
> forward, then had to stop and put the clutch in. If I had been in
> 4low, I still would have rolled backward in the same way when I
> stopped my forward motion and put the clutch in. It's not like I
> would've tried to hurry and put it in reverse to use the engine
> braking; I expect, when I'm at a near standstill trying to go forward,
> that if I push in the clutch and the brake at the same time to stop,
> I'm not going to randomly roll back ten feet if I don't slam the thing
> into reverse and pull the clutch out as some sort of preventative
> measure.
>
> Your statement was not bad advice by any means, just not applicable to
> the situation I was in. (This trail was not difficult, either; I'd
> been in 2wd for awhile so I could move faster; I don't like running in
> 3rd and 4th gear while in low range...my 4.56 diff gearing makes it
> difficult to keep up on an easy faster paced trail if I stay in low
> range sometimes.) Sure, I probably should have shifted into 4-low
> before trying the rocks (I could tell I'd probably not make it in
> 2-high), but I was in the mood to play a little and give it a shot in
> 2wd for kicks. I was surprised by the resulting brake crapping out
> when I had to give up and wanted to shift into 4-low, though.
>
> /Bob
>
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
Bob:
I think my statement was applicable to your situation. You said you were in
2-WD, so you could move faster. You really should have been in 4-HI, that
way you could still have moved just as fast, as long as you were on dirt,
gravel, mud, etc., (anything but hi traction pavement.)
If you had been in 4-HI, your front and rear axels would still be
mechanically locked together through the drive train, even when you put the
clutch in. Applying the foot brake would have transferred braking power from
the fronts to the rears, thus preventing that uncontrollable slide to the
rear with the front brakes (only) locked, even if you had the clutch in.
Tom
"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0406301501.37a7b353@posting.google.c om...
> I do appreciate the comments. However, I do understand the utility of
> the low range for slowing down the movement of the axles. In the case
> I described, though, the issue would have occured regardless of
> whether I was in high or low range, as it occurred when I was going
> forward, then had to stop and put the clutch in. If I had been in
> 4low, I still would have rolled backward in the same way when I
> stopped my forward motion and put the clutch in. It's not like I
> would've tried to hurry and put it in reverse to use the engine
> braking; I expect, when I'm at a near standstill trying to go forward,
> that if I push in the clutch and the brake at the same time to stop,
> I'm not going to randomly roll back ten feet if I don't slam the thing
> into reverse and pull the clutch out as some sort of preventative
> measure.
>
> Your statement was not bad advice by any means, just not applicable to
> the situation I was in. (This trail was not difficult, either; I'd
> been in 2wd for awhile so I could move faster; I don't like running in
> 3rd and 4th gear while in low range...my 4.56 diff gearing makes it
> difficult to keep up on an easy faster paced trail if I stay in low
> range sometimes.) Sure, I probably should have shifted into 4-low
> before trying the rocks (I could tell I'd probably not make it in
> 2-high), but I was in the mood to play a little and give it a shot in
> 2wd for kicks. I was surprised by the resulting brake crapping out
> when I had to give up and wanted to shift into 4-low, though.
>
> /Bob
>
>
I think my statement was applicable to your situation. You said you were in
2-WD, so you could move faster. You really should have been in 4-HI, that
way you could still have moved just as fast, as long as you were on dirt,
gravel, mud, etc., (anything but hi traction pavement.)
If you had been in 4-HI, your front and rear axels would still be
mechanically locked together through the drive train, even when you put the
clutch in. Applying the foot brake would have transferred braking power from
the fronts to the rears, thus preventing that uncontrollable slide to the
rear with the front brakes (only) locked, even if you had the clutch in.
Tom
"Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
news:47b769ae.0406301501.37a7b353@posting.google.c om...
> I do appreciate the comments. However, I do understand the utility of
> the low range for slowing down the movement of the axles. In the case
> I described, though, the issue would have occured regardless of
> whether I was in high or low range, as it occurred when I was going
> forward, then had to stop and put the clutch in. If I had been in
> 4low, I still would have rolled backward in the same way when I
> stopped my forward motion and put the clutch in. It's not like I
> would've tried to hurry and put it in reverse to use the engine
> braking; I expect, when I'm at a near standstill trying to go forward,
> that if I push in the clutch and the brake at the same time to stop,
> I'm not going to randomly roll back ten feet if I don't slam the thing
> into reverse and pull the clutch out as some sort of preventative
> measure.
>
> Your statement was not bad advice by any means, just not applicable to
> the situation I was in. (This trail was not difficult, either; I'd
> been in 2wd for awhile so I could move faster; I don't like running in
> 3rd and 4th gear while in low range...my 4.56 diff gearing makes it
> difficult to keep up on an easy faster paced trail if I stay in low
> range sometimes.) Sure, I probably should have shifted into 4-low
> before trying the rocks (I could tell I'd probably not make it in
> 2-high), but I was in the mood to play a little and give it a shot in
> 2wd for kicks. I was surprised by the resulting brake crapping out
> when I had to give up and wanted to shift into 4-low, though.
>
> /Bob
>
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Working on Brakes (especially Rear Drums) - TJ
Open diffs mess up that theory fast unfortunately.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
mabar wrote:
>
> Bob:
>
> I think my statement was applicable to your situation. You said you were in
> 2-WD, so you could move faster. You really should have been in 4-HI, that
> way you could still have moved just as fast, as long as you were on dirt,
> gravel, mud, etc., (anything but hi traction pavement.)
>
> If you had been in 4-HI, your front and rear axels would still be
> mechanically locked together through the drive train, even when you put the
> clutch in. Applying the foot brake would have transferred braking power from
> the fronts to the rears, thus preventing that uncontrollable slide to the
> rear with the front brakes (only) locked, even if you had the clutch in.
>
> Tom
>
> "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:47b769ae.0406301501.37a7b353@posting.google.c om...
> > I do appreciate the comments. However, I do understand the utility of
> > the low range for slowing down the movement of the axles. In the case
> > I described, though, the issue would have occured regardless of
> > whether I was in high or low range, as it occurred when I was going
> > forward, then had to stop and put the clutch in. If I had been in
> > 4low, I still would have rolled backward in the same way when I
> > stopped my forward motion and put the clutch in. It's not like I
> > would've tried to hurry and put it in reverse to use the engine
> > braking; I expect, when I'm at a near standstill trying to go forward,
> > that if I push in the clutch and the brake at the same time to stop,
> > I'm not going to randomly roll back ten feet if I don't slam the thing
> > into reverse and pull the clutch out as some sort of preventative
> > measure.
> >
> > Your statement was not bad advice by any means, just not applicable to
> > the situation I was in. (This trail was not difficult, either; I'd
> > been in 2wd for awhile so I could move faster; I don't like running in
> > 3rd and 4th gear while in low range...my 4.56 diff gearing makes it
> > difficult to keep up on an easy faster paced trail if I stay in low
> > range sometimes.) Sure, I probably should have shifted into 4-low
> > before trying the rocks (I could tell I'd probably not make it in
> > 2-high), but I was in the mood to play a little and give it a shot in
> > 2wd for kicks. I was surprised by the resulting brake crapping out
> > when I had to give up and wanted to shift into 4-low, though.
> >
> > /Bob
> >
> >
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
mabar wrote:
>
> Bob:
>
> I think my statement was applicable to your situation. You said you were in
> 2-WD, so you could move faster. You really should have been in 4-HI, that
> way you could still have moved just as fast, as long as you were on dirt,
> gravel, mud, etc., (anything but hi traction pavement.)
>
> If you had been in 4-HI, your front and rear axels would still be
> mechanically locked together through the drive train, even when you put the
> clutch in. Applying the foot brake would have transferred braking power from
> the fronts to the rears, thus preventing that uncontrollable slide to the
> rear with the front brakes (only) locked, even if you had the clutch in.
>
> Tom
>
> "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:47b769ae.0406301501.37a7b353@posting.google.c om...
> > I do appreciate the comments. However, I do understand the utility of
> > the low range for slowing down the movement of the axles. In the case
> > I described, though, the issue would have occured regardless of
> > whether I was in high or low range, as it occurred when I was going
> > forward, then had to stop and put the clutch in. If I had been in
> > 4low, I still would have rolled backward in the same way when I
> > stopped my forward motion and put the clutch in. It's not like I
> > would've tried to hurry and put it in reverse to use the engine
> > braking; I expect, when I'm at a near standstill trying to go forward,
> > that if I push in the clutch and the brake at the same time to stop,
> > I'm not going to randomly roll back ten feet if I don't slam the thing
> > into reverse and pull the clutch out as some sort of preventative
> > measure.
> >
> > Your statement was not bad advice by any means, just not applicable to
> > the situation I was in. (This trail was not difficult, either; I'd
> > been in 2wd for awhile so I could move faster; I don't like running in
> > 3rd and 4th gear while in low range...my 4.56 diff gearing makes it
> > difficult to keep up on an easy faster paced trail if I stay in low
> > range sometimes.) Sure, I probably should have shifted into 4-low
> > before trying the rocks (I could tell I'd probably not make it in
> > 2-high), but I was in the mood to play a little and give it a shot in
> > 2wd for kicks. I was surprised by the resulting brake crapping out
> > when I had to give up and wanted to shift into 4-low, though.
> >
> > /Bob
> >
> >