Who was it that said I didn't need lockers...?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Who was it that said I didn't need lockers...?
In article <h46dnST-Q5xdWzyiRVn-vQ@gbronline.com>, "mabar"
<mabar@NOSPAMgbronline.com> writes:
>Mud.
>
>I hate mud!
>
>Tom
Mud=4wheeling heaven. (But I live in the Midwest.)
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
<mabar@NOSPAMgbronline.com> writes:
>Mud.
>
>I hate mud!
>
>Tom
Mud=4wheeling heaven. (But I live in the Midwest.)
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Who was it that said I didn't need lockers...?
In article <h46dnST-Q5xdWzyiRVn-vQ@gbronline.com>, "mabar"
<mabar@NOSPAMgbronline.com> writes:
>Mud.
>
>I hate mud!
>
>Tom
Mud=4wheeling heaven. (But I live in the Midwest.)
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
<mabar@NOSPAMgbronline.com> writes:
>Mud.
>
>I hate mud!
>
>Tom
Mud=4wheeling heaven. (But I live in the Midwest.)
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Who was it that said I didn't need lockers...?
CRWLR is right. Sometimes Low 1st is too low. One example is in sand, from
what I'm told (I've not driven in sand yet). The point is that brakes alone
are a bad idea. Brakes are applied unevenly (more toward the front) and
it's harder to modulate them. Many people will over apply them and when
they get into a bad situation will let off completely and lose control, like
Travis did. Use your drive train to slow your vehicle down. To paraphrase
Mark Smith, "Getyourfootoffthedamnclutch!". :-)
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vq32pdqjhg8jef@corp.supernews.com...
> It matters alot. The recovery of sliding is not the application of more
> brakes, it is the application of more gas. If you are rolling along using
> the brakes as the sole means of controlling speed, then you are asking for
> trouble. The best way to control speed is to use the correct gear, and
> gentle applications of the brakes and gas, depending upon what is
happening
> and the surface you are driving on.
>
> If you rely upon the brakes alone to regulate your speed, then the vehicle
> can quickly attain an uncontrollable attitude that can result in excess
> speed, and severe angles of slope.
>
> TJim said that LO range, 1st gear is best, but this is not always true.
> Sometimes LO and 2nd is better. It really depends on many factors. His
point
> is that the best thing is the drive train should be taking the load, not
the
> braking system.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:b102b6e4.0310301342.312bba13@posting.google.c om...
> > > On those downhills,
> > > use engine braking whenever you can: 4wd Low and 1st gear. Using the
> > > vehicle brakes by themselves is begging for a rollover.
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > I don't understand this advice. It seems to me that the physics of
> > the jeep and whether it is going to roll over or not has to do with
> > the weight of the rig, speed, and angle of the slope. It shouldn't
> > really matter one way or the other what type of mechanism is slowing
> > the tires down.
>
what I'm told (I've not driven in sand yet). The point is that brakes alone
are a bad idea. Brakes are applied unevenly (more toward the front) and
it's harder to modulate them. Many people will over apply them and when
they get into a bad situation will let off completely and lose control, like
Travis did. Use your drive train to slow your vehicle down. To paraphrase
Mark Smith, "Getyourfootoffthedamnclutch!". :-)
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vq32pdqjhg8jef@corp.supernews.com...
> It matters alot. The recovery of sliding is not the application of more
> brakes, it is the application of more gas. If you are rolling along using
> the brakes as the sole means of controlling speed, then you are asking for
> trouble. The best way to control speed is to use the correct gear, and
> gentle applications of the brakes and gas, depending upon what is
happening
> and the surface you are driving on.
>
> If you rely upon the brakes alone to regulate your speed, then the vehicle
> can quickly attain an uncontrollable attitude that can result in excess
> speed, and severe angles of slope.
>
> TJim said that LO range, 1st gear is best, but this is not always true.
> Sometimes LO and 2nd is better. It really depends on many factors. His
point
> is that the best thing is the drive train should be taking the load, not
the
> braking system.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:b102b6e4.0310301342.312bba13@posting.google.c om...
> > > On those downhills,
> > > use engine braking whenever you can: 4wd Low and 1st gear. Using the
> > > vehicle brakes by themselves is begging for a rollover.
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > I don't understand this advice. It seems to me that the physics of
> > the jeep and whether it is going to roll over or not has to do with
> > the weight of the rig, speed, and angle of the slope. It shouldn't
> > really matter one way or the other what type of mechanism is slowing
> > the tires down.
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Who was it that said I didn't need lockers...?
CRWLR is right. Sometimes Low 1st is too low. One example is in sand, from
what I'm told (I've not driven in sand yet). The point is that brakes alone
are a bad idea. Brakes are applied unevenly (more toward the front) and
it's harder to modulate them. Many people will over apply them and when
they get into a bad situation will let off completely and lose control, like
Travis did. Use your drive train to slow your vehicle down. To paraphrase
Mark Smith, "Getyourfootoffthedamnclutch!". :-)
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vq32pdqjhg8jef@corp.supernews.com...
> It matters alot. The recovery of sliding is not the application of more
> brakes, it is the application of more gas. If you are rolling along using
> the brakes as the sole means of controlling speed, then you are asking for
> trouble. The best way to control speed is to use the correct gear, and
> gentle applications of the brakes and gas, depending upon what is
happening
> and the surface you are driving on.
>
> If you rely upon the brakes alone to regulate your speed, then the vehicle
> can quickly attain an uncontrollable attitude that can result in excess
> speed, and severe angles of slope.
>
> TJim said that LO range, 1st gear is best, but this is not always true.
> Sometimes LO and 2nd is better. It really depends on many factors. His
point
> is that the best thing is the drive train should be taking the load, not
the
> braking system.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:b102b6e4.0310301342.312bba13@posting.google.c om...
> > > On those downhills,
> > > use engine braking whenever you can: 4wd Low and 1st gear. Using the
> > > vehicle brakes by themselves is begging for a rollover.
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > I don't understand this advice. It seems to me that the physics of
> > the jeep and whether it is going to roll over or not has to do with
> > the weight of the rig, speed, and angle of the slope. It shouldn't
> > really matter one way or the other what type of mechanism is slowing
> > the tires down.
>
what I'm told (I've not driven in sand yet). The point is that brakes alone
are a bad idea. Brakes are applied unevenly (more toward the front) and
it's harder to modulate them. Many people will over apply them and when
they get into a bad situation will let off completely and lose control, like
Travis did. Use your drive train to slow your vehicle down. To paraphrase
Mark Smith, "Getyourfootoffthedamnclutch!". :-)
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vq32pdqjhg8jef@corp.supernews.com...
> It matters alot. The recovery of sliding is not the application of more
> brakes, it is the application of more gas. If you are rolling along using
> the brakes as the sole means of controlling speed, then you are asking for
> trouble. The best way to control speed is to use the correct gear, and
> gentle applications of the brakes and gas, depending upon what is
happening
> and the surface you are driving on.
>
> If you rely upon the brakes alone to regulate your speed, then the vehicle
> can quickly attain an uncontrollable attitude that can result in excess
> speed, and severe angles of slope.
>
> TJim said that LO range, 1st gear is best, but this is not always true.
> Sometimes LO and 2nd is better. It really depends on many factors. His
point
> is that the best thing is the drive train should be taking the load, not
the
> braking system.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:b102b6e4.0310301342.312bba13@posting.google.c om...
> > > On those downhills,
> > > use engine braking whenever you can: 4wd Low and 1st gear. Using the
> > > vehicle brakes by themselves is begging for a rollover.
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > I don't understand this advice. It seems to me that the physics of
> > the jeep and whether it is going to roll over or not has to do with
> > the weight of the rig, speed, and angle of the slope. It shouldn't
> > really matter one way or the other what type of mechanism is slowing
> > the tires down.
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Who was it that said I didn't need lockers...?
CRWLR is right. Sometimes Low 1st is too low. One example is in sand, from
what I'm told (I've not driven in sand yet). The point is that brakes alone
are a bad idea. Brakes are applied unevenly (more toward the front) and
it's harder to modulate them. Many people will over apply them and when
they get into a bad situation will let off completely and lose control, like
Travis did. Use your drive train to slow your vehicle down. To paraphrase
Mark Smith, "Getyourfootoffthedamnclutch!". :-)
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vq32pdqjhg8jef@corp.supernews.com...
> It matters alot. The recovery of sliding is not the application of more
> brakes, it is the application of more gas. If you are rolling along using
> the brakes as the sole means of controlling speed, then you are asking for
> trouble. The best way to control speed is to use the correct gear, and
> gentle applications of the brakes and gas, depending upon what is
happening
> and the surface you are driving on.
>
> If you rely upon the brakes alone to regulate your speed, then the vehicle
> can quickly attain an uncontrollable attitude that can result in excess
> speed, and severe angles of slope.
>
> TJim said that LO range, 1st gear is best, but this is not always true.
> Sometimes LO and 2nd is better. It really depends on many factors. His
point
> is that the best thing is the drive train should be taking the load, not
the
> braking system.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:b102b6e4.0310301342.312bba13@posting.google.c om...
> > > On those downhills,
> > > use engine braking whenever you can: 4wd Low and 1st gear. Using the
> > > vehicle brakes by themselves is begging for a rollover.
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > I don't understand this advice. It seems to me that the physics of
> > the jeep and whether it is going to roll over or not has to do with
> > the weight of the rig, speed, and angle of the slope. It shouldn't
> > really matter one way or the other what type of mechanism is slowing
> > the tires down.
>
what I'm told (I've not driven in sand yet). The point is that brakes alone
are a bad idea. Brakes are applied unevenly (more toward the front) and
it's harder to modulate them. Many people will over apply them and when
they get into a bad situation will let off completely and lose control, like
Travis did. Use your drive train to slow your vehicle down. To paraphrase
Mark Smith, "Getyourfootoffthedamnclutch!". :-)
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vq32pdqjhg8jef@corp.supernews.com...
> It matters alot. The recovery of sliding is not the application of more
> brakes, it is the application of more gas. If you are rolling along using
> the brakes as the sole means of controlling speed, then you are asking for
> trouble. The best way to control speed is to use the correct gear, and
> gentle applications of the brakes and gas, depending upon what is
happening
> and the surface you are driving on.
>
> If you rely upon the brakes alone to regulate your speed, then the vehicle
> can quickly attain an uncontrollable attitude that can result in excess
> speed, and severe angles of slope.
>
> TJim said that LO range, 1st gear is best, but this is not always true.
> Sometimes LO and 2nd is better. It really depends on many factors. His
point
> is that the best thing is the drive train should be taking the load, not
the
> braking system.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
> news:b102b6e4.0310301342.312bba13@posting.google.c om...
> > > On those downhills,
> > > use engine braking whenever you can: 4wd Low and 1st gear. Using the
> > > vehicle brakes by themselves is begging for a rollover.
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> > I don't understand this advice. It seems to me that the physics of
> > the jeep and whether it is going to roll over or not has to do with
> > the weight of the rig, speed, and angle of the slope. It shouldn't
> > really matter one way or the other what type of mechanism is slowing
> > the tires down.
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Who was it that said I didn't need lockers...?
I'm with you, Matt! Mud and water are where it's at!
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20031031081128.11022.00001777@mb-m14.aol.com...
> In article <h46dnST-Q5xdWzyiRVn-vQ@gbronline.com>, "mabar"
> <mabar@NOSPAMgbronline.com> writes:
>
> >Mud.
> >
> >I hate mud!
> >
> >Tom
>
> Mud=4wheeling heaven. (But I live in the Midwest.)
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20031031081128.11022.00001777@mb-m14.aol.com...
> In article <h46dnST-Q5xdWzyiRVn-vQ@gbronline.com>, "mabar"
> <mabar@NOSPAMgbronline.com> writes:
>
> >Mud.
> >
> >I hate mud!
> >
> >Tom
>
> Mud=4wheeling heaven. (But I live in the Midwest.)
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Who was it that said I didn't need lockers...?
I'm with you, Matt! Mud and water are where it's at!
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20031031081128.11022.00001777@mb-m14.aol.com...
> In article <h46dnST-Q5xdWzyiRVn-vQ@gbronline.com>, "mabar"
> <mabar@NOSPAMgbronline.com> writes:
>
> >Mud.
> >
> >I hate mud!
> >
> >Tom
>
> Mud=4wheeling heaven. (But I live in the Midwest.)
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20031031081128.11022.00001777@mb-m14.aol.com...
> In article <h46dnST-Q5xdWzyiRVn-vQ@gbronline.com>, "mabar"
> <mabar@NOSPAMgbronline.com> writes:
>
> >Mud.
> >
> >I hate mud!
> >
> >Tom
>
> Mud=4wheeling heaven. (But I live in the Midwest.)
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Who was it that said I didn't need lockers...?
I'm with you, Matt! Mud and water are where it's at!
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20031031081128.11022.00001777@mb-m14.aol.com...
> In article <h46dnST-Q5xdWzyiRVn-vQ@gbronline.com>, "mabar"
> <mabar@NOSPAMgbronline.com> writes:
>
> >Mud.
> >
> >I hate mud!
> >
> >Tom
>
> Mud=4wheeling heaven. (But I live in the Midwest.)
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
--
Jim
--
98 TJ SE
90 SJ GW
http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98
"You can do any job in the world with the wrong tool if you try hard
enough..."
"4x4" in caps is "$X$"
"Matt Macchiarolo" <mlmacchia@aol.comspambgon> wrote in message
news:20031031081128.11022.00001777@mb-m14.aol.com...
> In article <h46dnST-Q5xdWzyiRVn-vQ@gbronline.com>, "mabar"
> <mabar@NOSPAMgbronline.com> writes:
>
> >Mud.
> >
> >I hate mud!
> >
> >Tom
>
> Mud=4wheeling heaven. (But I live in the Midwest.)
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
>
>
>
>
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Who was it that said I didn't need lockers...?
> If you rely upon the brakes alone to regulate your speed, then the vehicle
> can quickly attain an uncontrollable attitude that can result in excess
> speed, and severe angles of slope.
Ok, so if I understand right, you are saying that brakes are worse
than engine-braking because 1) Brakes are more likely to lock the
tires up, and 2) When the tires are locked up, you can't steer.
Is the same risk present though if you are backing down a hill, and
therefore most of the braking is being done by the back tires, which
presumably are not used for steering on most rigs? I ask because that
is the situation I had in mind when I posed the question. I was
recently trying to climb a steep hill and came up to a 4' sheer rock
embankment that I simply couldn't climb. So my only real option was
to go back down the hill. Not wanting to risk turning around on the
side of a steep hill, I decided to do it in reverse. Because the
trail had lots of obstacles on either side and was kind of twisty,
and visibility in reverse isn't that great, I found that the one gear
available to me (reverse) was way too fast, even in 4-low... so I
felt my only option was to put things in neutral and ride the brakes
haltingly back down the hill. I did that successfully but there was
definitely a pucker factor!
> can quickly attain an uncontrollable attitude that can result in excess
> speed, and severe angles of slope.
Ok, so if I understand right, you are saying that brakes are worse
than engine-braking because 1) Brakes are more likely to lock the
tires up, and 2) When the tires are locked up, you can't steer.
Is the same risk present though if you are backing down a hill, and
therefore most of the braking is being done by the back tires, which
presumably are not used for steering on most rigs? I ask because that
is the situation I had in mind when I posed the question. I was
recently trying to climb a steep hill and came up to a 4' sheer rock
embankment that I simply couldn't climb. So my only real option was
to go back down the hill. Not wanting to risk turning around on the
side of a steep hill, I decided to do it in reverse. Because the
trail had lots of obstacles on either side and was kind of twisty,
and visibility in reverse isn't that great, I found that the one gear
available to me (reverse) was way too fast, even in 4-low... so I
felt my only option was to put things in neutral and ride the brakes
haltingly back down the hill. I did that successfully but there was
definitely a pucker factor!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Who was it that said I didn't need lockers...?
> If you rely upon the brakes alone to regulate your speed, then the vehicle
> can quickly attain an uncontrollable attitude that can result in excess
> speed, and severe angles of slope.
Ok, so if I understand right, you are saying that brakes are worse
than engine-braking because 1) Brakes are more likely to lock the
tires up, and 2) When the tires are locked up, you can't steer.
Is the same risk present though if you are backing down a hill, and
therefore most of the braking is being done by the back tires, which
presumably are not used for steering on most rigs? I ask because that
is the situation I had in mind when I posed the question. I was
recently trying to climb a steep hill and came up to a 4' sheer rock
embankment that I simply couldn't climb. So my only real option was
to go back down the hill. Not wanting to risk turning around on the
side of a steep hill, I decided to do it in reverse. Because the
trail had lots of obstacles on either side and was kind of twisty,
and visibility in reverse isn't that great, I found that the one gear
available to me (reverse) was way too fast, even in 4-low... so I
felt my only option was to put things in neutral and ride the brakes
haltingly back down the hill. I did that successfully but there was
definitely a pucker factor!
> can quickly attain an uncontrollable attitude that can result in excess
> speed, and severe angles of slope.
Ok, so if I understand right, you are saying that brakes are worse
than engine-braking because 1) Brakes are more likely to lock the
tires up, and 2) When the tires are locked up, you can't steer.
Is the same risk present though if you are backing down a hill, and
therefore most of the braking is being done by the back tires, which
presumably are not used for steering on most rigs? I ask because that
is the situation I had in mind when I posed the question. I was
recently trying to climb a steep hill and came up to a 4' sheer rock
embankment that I simply couldn't climb. So my only real option was
to go back down the hill. Not wanting to risk turning around on the
side of a steep hill, I decided to do it in reverse. Because the
trail had lots of obstacles on either side and was kind of twisty,
and visibility in reverse isn't that great, I found that the one gear
available to me (reverse) was way too fast, even in 4-low... so I
felt my only option was to put things in neutral and ride the brakes
haltingly back down the hill. I did that successfully but there was
definitely a pucker factor!
