Wheel Bearings
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Wheel Bearings
Thanks to all,
One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
care of that myself
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
<----------@***.net> wrote:
>Hi Joe,
> Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
>thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
>continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
>sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
>intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
>may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
>time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
>feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
>http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>Joe Carroll wrote:
>>
>> How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
>> 2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Joe Carroll
>> 2K-TJ
>>
>> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
>> Joseph Duemer
Joe Carroll
2K-TJ
There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
Joseph Duemer
One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
care of that myself
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
<----------@***.net> wrote:
>Hi Joe,
> Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
>thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
>continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
>sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
>intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
>may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
>time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
>feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
>http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>Joe Carroll wrote:
>>
>> How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
>> 2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Joe Carroll
>> 2K-TJ
>>
>> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
>> Joseph Duemer
Joe Carroll
2K-TJ
There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
Joseph Duemer
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Wheel Bearings
Thanks to all,
One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
care of that myself
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
<----------@***.net> wrote:
>Hi Joe,
> Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
>thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
>continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
>sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
>intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
>may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
>time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
>feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
>http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>Joe Carroll wrote:
>>
>> How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
>> 2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Joe Carroll
>> 2K-TJ
>>
>> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
>> Joseph Duemer
Joe Carroll
2K-TJ
There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
Joseph Duemer
One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
care of that myself
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
<----------@***.net> wrote:
>Hi Joe,
> Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
>thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
>continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
>sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
>intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
>may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
>time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
>feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
>http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>Joe Carroll wrote:
>>
>> How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
>> 2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Joe Carroll
>> 2K-TJ
>>
>> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
>> Joseph Duemer
Joe Carroll
2K-TJ
There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
Joseph Duemer
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Wheel Bearings
Thanks to all,
One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
care of that myself
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
<----------@***.net> wrote:
>Hi Joe,
> Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
>thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
>continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
>sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
>intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
>may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
>time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
>feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
>http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>Joe Carroll wrote:
>>
>> How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
>> 2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Joe Carroll
>> 2K-TJ
>>
>> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
>> Joseph Duemer
Joe Carroll
2K-TJ
There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
Joseph Duemer
One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
care of that myself
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
<----------@***.net> wrote:
>Hi Joe,
> Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
>thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
>continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
>sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
>intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
>may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
>time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
>feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
>http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>Joe Carroll wrote:
>>
>> How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
>> 2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Joe Carroll
>> 2K-TJ
>>
>> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
>> Joseph Duemer
Joe Carroll
2K-TJ
There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
Joseph Duemer
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Wheel Bearings
Firestone? http://www.----------.com/concord.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Joe Carroll wrote:
>
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Joe Carroll wrote:
>
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Wheel Bearings
Firestone? http://www.----------.com/concord.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Joe Carroll wrote:
>
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Joe Carroll wrote:
>
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Wheel Bearings
Firestone? http://www.----------.com/concord.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Joe Carroll wrote:
>
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------
Joe Carroll wrote:
>
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Wheel Bearings
The vibration from the tire going bad likely had a bunch to do with the
bearing going bad....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joe Carroll wrote:
>
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
> <----------@***.net> wrote:
>
> >Hi Joe,
> > Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
> >thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
> >continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
> >sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
> >intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
> >may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
> >time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
> >feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
> >http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> >mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> >Joe Carroll wrote:
> >>
> >> How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
> >> 2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
> >>
> >> TIA
> >>
> >> Joe Carroll
> >> 2K-TJ
> >>
> >> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> >> Joseph Duemer
>
> Joe Carroll
> 2K-TJ
>
> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> Joseph Duemer
bearing going bad....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joe Carroll wrote:
>
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
> <----------@***.net> wrote:
>
> >Hi Joe,
> > Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
> >thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
> >continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
> >sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
> >intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
> >may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
> >time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
> >feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
> >http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> >mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> >Joe Carroll wrote:
> >>
> >> How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
> >> 2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
> >>
> >> TIA
> >>
> >> Joe Carroll
> >> 2K-TJ
> >>
> >> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> >> Joseph Duemer
>
> Joe Carroll
> 2K-TJ
>
> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> Joseph Duemer
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Wheel Bearings
The vibration from the tire going bad likely had a bunch to do with the
bearing going bad....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joe Carroll wrote:
>
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
> <----------@***.net> wrote:
>
> >Hi Joe,
> > Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
> >thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
> >continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
> >sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
> >intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
> >may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
> >time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
> >feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
> >http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> >mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> >Joe Carroll wrote:
> >>
> >> How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
> >> 2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
> >>
> >> TIA
> >>
> >> Joe Carroll
> >> 2K-TJ
> >>
> >> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> >> Joseph Duemer
>
> Joe Carroll
> 2K-TJ
>
> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> Joseph Duemer
bearing going bad....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joe Carroll wrote:
>
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
> <----------@***.net> wrote:
>
> >Hi Joe,
> > Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
> >thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
> >continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
> >sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
> >intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
> >may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
> >time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
> >feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
> >http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> >mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> >Joe Carroll wrote:
> >>
> >> How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
> >> 2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
> >>
> >> TIA
> >>
> >> Joe Carroll
> >> 2K-TJ
> >>
> >> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> >> Joseph Duemer
>
> Joe Carroll
> 2K-TJ
>
> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> Joseph Duemer
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Wheel Bearings
The vibration from the tire going bad likely had a bunch to do with the
bearing going bad....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joe Carroll wrote:
>
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
> <----------@***.net> wrote:
>
> >Hi Joe,
> > Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
> >thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
> >continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
> >sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
> >intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
> >may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
> >time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
> >feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
> >http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> >mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> >Joe Carroll wrote:
> >>
> >> How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
> >> 2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
> >>
> >> TIA
> >>
> >> Joe Carroll
> >> 2K-TJ
> >>
> >> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> >> Joseph Duemer
>
> Joe Carroll
> 2K-TJ
>
> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> Joseph Duemer
bearing going bad....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Joe Carroll wrote:
>
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
> <----------@***.net> wrote:
>
> >Hi Joe,
> > Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
> >thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
> >continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
> >sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
> >intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
> >may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
> >time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
> >feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
> >http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> >mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> >Joe Carroll wrote:
> >>
> >> How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
> >> 2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
> >>
> >> TIA
> >>
> >> Joe Carroll
> >> 2K-TJ
> >>
> >> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> >> Joseph Duemer
>
> Joe Carroll
> 2K-TJ
>
> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> Joseph Duemer
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Wheel Bearings
As for taking care of the bearings, listen to what Mike R. said about
"bugger to take off" If you live in the rust belt, you may find that
after you subract the $130 or so for a new assembly, the labor may not
be quite so tough to swallow. Several of us have spent 4 to 8 hours
trying to get a single hub off.
Cheers.
Joe Carroll wrote:
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
> <----------@***.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Joe,
>> Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
>>thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
>>continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
>>sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
>>intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
>>may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
>>time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
>>feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
>>http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>>Joe Carroll wrote:
>>
>>>How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
>>>2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
>>>
>>>TIA
>>>
>>>Joe Carroll
>>>2K-TJ
>>>
>>>There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
>>> Joseph Duemer
>
>
> Joe Carroll
> 2K-TJ
>
> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> Joseph Duemer
"bugger to take off" If you live in the rust belt, you may find that
after you subract the $130 or so for a new assembly, the labor may not
be quite so tough to swallow. Several of us have spent 4 to 8 hours
trying to get a single hub off.
Cheers.
Joe Carroll wrote:
> Thanks to all,
> One of those new Dueler AT Revo's is seperating on the right front and
> Firestone is replacing it. The firestone fellow said I needed a new
> right front wheel bearing also. When he said $350.00 I said I'd take
> care of that myself
> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:24:40 -0700, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
> <----------@***.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Joe,
>> Rather than repacking the bearings once a year or every twelve
>>thousand miles like a Real Jeep Floating bearings, Daimler chose to
>>continue selling you puny front wheel drive passenger car hubs that are
>>sealed and just run dry, seize, and leave you in the middle of an
>>intersection, or the wheel just falls off at seventy miles and hour. You
>>may check to see if it is about to explode by jacking the wheel up from
>>time to time, and kicking the wheel to release the brake caliber and
>>feel for any play, if there is, replace them:
>>http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cheroke...2_feb/bearing/
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>>Joe Carroll wrote:
>>
>>>How difficult is it to replace or repack front wheel bearings on a
>>>2000 wrangler sport, 6 cyl?
>>>
>>>TIA
>>>
>>>Joe Carroll
>>>2K-TJ
>>>
>>>There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
>>> Joseph Duemer
>
>
> Joe Carroll
> 2K-TJ
>
> There are some simple truths...And the dogs know what they are."
> Joseph Duemer