Steve G

Jerry,
I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17 years.
I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years I've been
standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you without
question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality of
workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had contact
with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories with the
dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling dealer
had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out several
times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put the
indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the dash
bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to replace
the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a factory
reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when I
drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch brg
packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and still
going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to another
dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when it
lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and another
cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A couple of
weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace the
entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem right,
the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had been
replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay $360
for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for $60.
After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
(they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same antiseize
grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside of the
plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is supposed
to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of the
plugs.
I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is no
assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things elevated
to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried to
feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what about
the average consumer that doesn't?
Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all these
stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every warranty
repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but it
was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem that I
had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash rattle
and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken shifter
indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up and
bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search for the
problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the engine
myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the engine
wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust manifold.
These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
Steve
"Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
particular
> service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour. This
> isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every special
> tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we work
> on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to take
it
> somewhere else, we don't do that here."
>
> Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that is
> capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout while
> turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool with
which
> to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just three
> examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four brake
> lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip of
the
> iceberg.
>
> Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want to
work
> at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the manufacturers
> make changes every year to major components and electrical/electronic
> systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas station
guys,
> then learn it as we go.
>
> For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there are
> still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It defies
> logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
>
> Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago. Perhaps
Lon
> can refresh our memories.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour. the
> > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including insurance and
> > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge $75 an
> hour.
> > they do it because they can.
> >
> > --
> > Nathan W. Collier
> > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Steve G

Jerry,
I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17 years.
I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years I've been
standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you without
question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality of
workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had contact
with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories with the
dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling dealer
had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out several
times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put the
indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the dash
bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to replace
the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a factory
reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when I
drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch brg
packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and still
going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to another
dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when it
lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and another
cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A couple of
weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace the
entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem right,
the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had been
replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay $360
for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for $60.
After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
(they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same antiseize
grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside of the
plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is supposed
to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of the
plugs.
I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is no
assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things elevated
to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried to
feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what about
the average consumer that doesn't?
Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all these
stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every warranty
repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but it
was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem that I
had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash rattle
and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken shifter
indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up and
bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search for the
problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the engine
myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the engine
wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust manifold.
These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
Steve
"Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
particular
> service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour. This
> isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every special
> tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we work
> on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to take
it
> somewhere else, we don't do that here."
>
> Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that is
> capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout while
> turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool with
which
> to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just three
> examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four brake
> lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip of
the
> iceberg.
>
> Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want to
work
> at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the manufacturers
> make changes every year to major components and electrical/electronic
> systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas station
guys,
> then learn it as we go.
>
> For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there are
> still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It defies
> logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
>
> Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago. Perhaps
Lon
> can refresh our memories.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour. the
> > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including insurance and
> > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge $75 an
> hour.
> > they do it because they can.
> >
> > --
> > Nathan W. Collier
> > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Steve G

Jerry,
I'm a mechanic by trade that hasn't worked in the field for some 17 years.
I worked for independants, never in a dealership. In recent years I've been
standing on the other side of the service counter and I can tell you without
question that here in my parts, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, the quality of
workmanship and level of knowledge in the dealerships that I've had contact
with is pathetic. I have a 96 Aurora and have a litany of stories with the
dealers that would absolutely curl your toes. The original selling dealer
had the car almost 2 months for the trans, had the trans and out several
times, broke the shift indicater in the console ($1400) when the put the
indicater lite harness back wrong while replacing the lighter, put the dash
bezel back on with 2 way tape when the broke the tabs removing it to replace
the speeedo, picked it up after thr trans job (they finally got a factory
reman) and had antifreeze pouring on the ground from a loose hose when I
drove it away, wanted to sell me a new a/c compressor when the clutch brg
packed up ($1900, I had just the clutch repaired instead for $200 and still
going strong 120,000 km later), and on and on. I decided to go to another
dealer where my father-in law had been service manager for years when it
lost 1 cylinder. Had a $600 tune-up. Drove fine for a week and another
cylinder was out. Took it back and they replaced a plug wire. A couple of
weeks later same thing again, different cyl. They wanted to replace the
entire set at a cost of $360 for the wire set. Something didn't seem right,
the car had less than 60,000miles (100,000 km) and the plug wires had been
replaced once while the car was under warranty. I didn't want to pay $360
for a set of wires so I bought a quality set of aftermarket wires for $60.
After a couple of weeks, same problem. This time I pulled the plugs,
(they're deep inside tubes in the head) . Discovered that when the
mechanic? changed the plugs at my $600 tune-up he used the same antiseize
grease that's supposed to be used on the threads to coat the inside of the
plug wire boots, in place of the dielectric silicone grease that is supposed
to be used there. The grease was shorting the wires down the side of the
plugs.
I now do my own work on my vehicles again. Going to a dealership is no
assurance of quality repairs. Whenever I took it back and things elevated
to the service manager level they defended their technicians and tried to
feed me more bull. That really frosted me. I knew better, but what about
the average consumer that doesn't?
Sorry, I rant. I get so burned eveerytime I start thinking of all these
stories. At one point I had the original selling dealer pull every warranty
repair they had ever done on the car. I hadn't owned it from new, but it
was still under warranty when I bought it. Every subsequent problem that I
had could be tied to a previous work order. My discovery of the dash rattle
and the broken bezel, matched the speedo head replacement, broken shifter
indicater, matched the cigar lighter replacement work order, cut up and
bared wires in the engine side wiring harness, matched their search for the
problem with the low oil level indicater. Eventually I pulled the engine
myself to repair the seal between the crankcase halves (northstar) and
discovered missing and loose bolts related to the trans work, the engine
wiring harness not routed properly and fried against the exhaust manifold.
These are just the tip. I've got a dozen more.
Steve
"Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4004a4f7_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> They don't "do it because they can", Nathan. The overhead of my
particular
> service department, before paying the tech, is about $42 an hour. This
> isn't a gas station, this is a 23 bay repair facility, with every special
> tool and piece of equipment necessary to fix anything on the cars we work
> on. We don't have the luxury of telling an owner "you will have to take
it
> somewhere else, we don't do that here."
>
> Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that is
> capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout while
> turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool with
which
> to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just three
> examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four brake
> lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip of
the
> iceberg.
>
> Factory training isn't free. It also isn't voluntary. If you want to
work
> at the dealership level, you have to attend training, as the manufacturers
> make changes every year to major components and electrical/electronic
> systems. We can't be five years behind the curve like the gas station
guys,
> then learn it as we go.
>
> For all of the complaining about the cost of dealership labor, there are
> still cars lined up out to the street, waiting to be serviced. It defies
> logic. You would think that a shop that supposedly gouges customers
> "because we can" wouldn't be in business for 50+ years.
>
> Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago. Perhaps
Lon
> can refresh our memories.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> "Nathan Collier" <JeepMail@7SlotGrille.com> wrote in message
> news:dfWMb.221803$Vu5.16486442@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > a typical dealership mechanic averages around $15-$17 an hour. the
> > dealership has to pay for all the shop expenses including insurance and
> > match the mechanics ss deductions but its still a rip to charge $75 an
> hour.
> > they do it because they can.
> >
> > --
> > Nathan W. Collier
> > http://7SlotGrille.com
> > http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Jerry Newton

"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:bu42fq$deoei$1@ID-87669.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Green River? Nice town, interesting cemetary. I spent 2 days there last
> August
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
>
>

In the cemetary?

Jerry

Jerry Newton

"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:bu42fq$deoei$1@ID-87669.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Green River? Nice town, interesting cemetary. I spent 2 days there last
> August
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
>
>

In the cemetary?

Jerry

Jerry Newton

"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:bu42fq$deoei$1@ID-87669.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Green River? Nice town, interesting cemetary. I spent 2 days there last
> August
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
>
>

In the cemetary?

Jerry

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Ditto.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Paul Calman wrote:
>
> I have found the opposite to be true. A dealer can afford to loose
> customers, but an independant's survival relies upon satified customers.
>
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Ditto.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Paul Calman wrote:
>
> I have found the opposite to be true. A dealer can afford to loose
> customers, but an independant's survival relies upon satified customers.
>
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Ditto.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Paul Calman wrote:
>
> I have found the opposite to be true. A dealer can afford to loose
> customers, but an independant's survival relies upon satified customers.
>
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California

Nathan Collier

"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:4005764b$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> if you don't want to pay someone to do, gear up and do it
> yourself.

i cant see how knowing how to do something justifies sticking it to those
who dont. im lucky in two ways....i rarely keep a new vehicle much more
than a year so im always under warranty, and there is no vehicular repair i
cant do myself anyway. i feel sorry though for those who cant and must rely
upon dealerships to repair their vehicles out of warranty. i feel sorry for
everyone with the triton v10 head out of warranty that had to pay for an
entire new head because the dealership was incapable of building up the head
and tapping new plug threads or paying a machine shop to do it for them (v10
was bad for blowing plugs out of their holes taking the threads with them).
it happened on my brothers but he had an extended warranty. i feel bad for
everyone whos paid $200 in labor costs to have an alternator swapped when i
know one person that got theirs swapped and installed at autozone for FREE
(labor). i could go on but im bored with this now.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com