Jerry Newton

Hey hey hey, go easy on the dealer techs. You don't hesitate to bring us
the things that you can't figure out, but you wanna crap on us when it's
time to get some maintenance done. Can't have it both ways, Doug.


Jerry



"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:F_oxb.15927$Gj2.2386@okepread01...
> c2dmw did pass the time by typing:
> > Hi
>
> > I have just purchased my girlfriend a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.7
Limited
> > and looking for a 'cost effective' company to perform a 60,000 mile
service.
> > I am based in Hertfordshire and willing to travel a reasonable distance
if
> > the saving is to my benefit.
>
> You should get the FSM (Field Service Manual). It isn't cheep, but it
will
> cover all the maintenance and repair procedures for the Jeep.
>
> Most of that "60,000 mile service" is dedicated to generating revenue for
> the dealers mechanics.
>
> While I'm not familiar with the 4.7, for the most part service amounts
> to changing the fluids, air filter, and relieving the customers wallet
> of all that excess weight.
>
> > Also does anyone know if the cambelt is changed on a 60K service or is
this
> > extra?
>
> It's a chain and will probably outlast the vehicle.
>
> Here is a site you will find useful.
> http://www.wjjeeps.com/engine.htm
>
>
> --
> -- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.***.net/wilsond
> HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
> Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
>
>
>

Jerry Newton

Hey hey hey, go easy on the dealer techs. You don't hesitate to bring us
the things that you can't figure out, but you wanna crap on us when it's
time to get some maintenance done. Can't have it both ways, Doug.


Jerry



"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:F_oxb.15927$Gj2.2386@okepread01...
> c2dmw did pass the time by typing:
> > Hi
>
> > I have just purchased my girlfriend a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.7
Limited
> > and looking for a 'cost effective' company to perform a 60,000 mile
service.
> > I am based in Hertfordshire and willing to travel a reasonable distance
if
> > the saving is to my benefit.
>
> You should get the FSM (Field Service Manual). It isn't cheep, but it
will
> cover all the maintenance and repair procedures for the Jeep.
>
> Most of that "60,000 mile service" is dedicated to generating revenue for
> the dealers mechanics.
>
> While I'm not familiar with the 4.7, for the most part service amounts
> to changing the fluids, air filter, and relieving the customers wallet
> of all that excess weight.
>
> > Also does anyone know if the cambelt is changed on a 60K service or is
this
> > extra?
>
> It's a chain and will probably outlast the vehicle.
>
> Here is a site you will find useful.
> http://www.wjjeeps.com/engine.htm
>
>
> --
> -- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.***.net/wilsond
> HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
> Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
>
>
>

DougW

Jerry Newton did pass the time by typing:
> Hey hey hey, go easy on the dealer techs. You don't hesitate to bring us
> the things that you can't figure out, but you wanna crap on us when it's
> time to get some maintenance done. Can't have it both ways, Doug.

Actually I can, and while I have no problem with most dealerships some
are simply out to screw the customer out of as much as they can. The hour
costs are egregious for basic maintenance. At least double that of any
decent local mechanic.

Let me put this in perspective. How much does the dealer charge to change
the transfer case fluid in a 93 ZJ Quadratrack? They charge enough that
I was able to buy a snap-on socket to fit the fill and drain plugs, the
ATF fluid, a small plastic pump to reach up there, and still had money
left over for beer.

The procedure? 1) take both plugs out and let case drain, 2) put lower
plug back in and fill case till it comes out the top, 3) put top plug
back in.

As for competency. I have experienced both ends of the spectrum,
fortunately the poorest when the Jeep was still under warrantee.
Two of my best experiences:

One was replacing the distributor. After the chief mechanic looked
up the price for part and maintenance he called back and said it would
be about $410.00, 195 for the part and 215 for service. In his words
"Utter -------- for such an easy job." I knew the NAPA part is only
$80 and with the simple instructions he gave me vs. the FSM, it took
under 20min to do the whole thing, even stopping to take pictures.
http://members.***.net/wilsond/distributor/

The other was when I was having problems with the ABS failing as the
Jeep went over bumps. The mechanic looked, tested, looked, swapped
parts, tested, looked, and literally an hour later talked to me about
the problem and how it was "moving." We both worked on it and even
swapped out the brains. Problem came and went. Finally the only thing
it could be was gremlins. One of the other mechanics stopped by to look
and mentioned that the way they designed that POS the rain drips right
on the connector. "you should clean that out or it's gonna cause all
sorts of problem." So we grabbed a can of contact cleaner, sprayed the
connector, stuck my old ABS computer back in there, and the problem was
gone.

Both of us muttered, "well, ----!" He explained about having to bill for
time and I had no problem with that at all. Road salt had gotten into
the connector and was screwing up the brains just enough that sensors
would indicate faulty when they weren't. I chalked it up to an expensive
lesson in cleaning the connectors first.

Long story short. I don't have a problem with any mechanic as
long as they are ethical in dealing with customers.

--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.***.net/wilsond
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors

DougW

Jerry Newton did pass the time by typing:
> Hey hey hey, go easy on the dealer techs. You don't hesitate to bring us
> the things that you can't figure out, but you wanna crap on us when it's
> time to get some maintenance done. Can't have it both ways, Doug.

Actually I can, and while I have no problem with most dealerships some
are simply out to screw the customer out of as much as they can. The hour
costs are egregious for basic maintenance. At least double that of any
decent local mechanic.

Let me put this in perspective. How much does the dealer charge to change
the transfer case fluid in a 93 ZJ Quadratrack? They charge enough that
I was able to buy a snap-on socket to fit the fill and drain plugs, the
ATF fluid, a small plastic pump to reach up there, and still had money
left over for beer.

The procedure? 1) take both plugs out and let case drain, 2) put lower
plug back in and fill case till it comes out the top, 3) put top plug
back in.

As for competency. I have experienced both ends of the spectrum,
fortunately the poorest when the Jeep was still under warrantee.
Two of my best experiences:

One was replacing the distributor. After the chief mechanic looked
up the price for part and maintenance he called back and said it would
be about $410.00, 195 for the part and 215 for service. In his words
"Utter -------- for such an easy job." I knew the NAPA part is only
$80 and with the simple instructions he gave me vs. the FSM, it took
under 20min to do the whole thing, even stopping to take pictures.
http://members.***.net/wilsond/distributor/

The other was when I was having problems with the ABS failing as the
Jeep went over bumps. The mechanic looked, tested, looked, swapped
parts, tested, looked, and literally an hour later talked to me about
the problem and how it was "moving." We both worked on it and even
swapped out the brains. Problem came and went. Finally the only thing
it could be was gremlins. One of the other mechanics stopped by to look
and mentioned that the way they designed that POS the rain drips right
on the connector. "you should clean that out or it's gonna cause all
sorts of problem." So we grabbed a can of contact cleaner, sprayed the
connector, stuck my old ABS computer back in there, and the problem was
gone.

Both of us muttered, "well, ----!" He explained about having to bill for
time and I had no problem with that at all. Road salt had gotten into
the connector and was screwing up the brains just enough that sensors
would indicate faulty when they weren't. I chalked it up to an expensive
lesson in cleaning the connectors first.

Long story short. I don't have a problem with any mechanic as
long as they are ethical in dealing with customers.

--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.***.net/wilsond
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors

DougW

Jerry Newton did pass the time by typing:
> Hey hey hey, go easy on the dealer techs. You don't hesitate to bring us
> the things that you can't figure out, but you wanna crap on us when it's
> time to get some maintenance done. Can't have it both ways, Doug.

Actually I can, and while I have no problem with most dealerships some
are simply out to screw the customer out of as much as they can. The hour
costs are egregious for basic maintenance. At least double that of any
decent local mechanic.

Let me put this in perspective. How much does the dealer charge to change
the transfer case fluid in a 93 ZJ Quadratrack? They charge enough that
I was able to buy a snap-on socket to fit the fill and drain plugs, the
ATF fluid, a small plastic pump to reach up there, and still had money
left over for beer.

The procedure? 1) take both plugs out and let case drain, 2) put lower
plug back in and fill case till it comes out the top, 3) put top plug
back in.

As for competency. I have experienced both ends of the spectrum,
fortunately the poorest when the Jeep was still under warrantee.
Two of my best experiences:

One was replacing the distributor. After the chief mechanic looked
up the price for part and maintenance he called back and said it would
be about $410.00, 195 for the part and 215 for service. In his words
"Utter -------- for such an easy job." I knew the NAPA part is only
$80 and with the simple instructions he gave me vs. the FSM, it took
under 20min to do the whole thing, even stopping to take pictures.
http://members.***.net/wilsond/distributor/

The other was when I was having problems with the ABS failing as the
Jeep went over bumps. The mechanic looked, tested, looked, swapped
parts, tested, looked, and literally an hour later talked to me about
the problem and how it was "moving." We both worked on it and even
swapped out the brains. Problem came and went. Finally the only thing
it could be was gremlins. One of the other mechanics stopped by to look
and mentioned that the way they designed that POS the rain drips right
on the connector. "you should clean that out or it's gonna cause all
sorts of problem." So we grabbed a can of contact cleaner, sprayed the
connector, stuck my old ABS computer back in there, and the problem was
gone.

Both of us muttered, "well, ----!" He explained about having to bill for
time and I had no problem with that at all. Road salt had gotten into
the connector and was screwing up the brains just enough that sensors
would indicate faulty when they weren't. I chalked it up to an expensive
lesson in cleaning the connectors first.

Long story short. I don't have a problem with any mechanic as
long as they are ethical in dealing with customers.

--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.***.net/wilsond
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors

Will Honea

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:45:47 UTC "DougW"
<post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:

> c2dmw did pass the time by typing:
> > "DougW" wrote ...
> >> c2dmw did pass the time by typing:
>
> >>> Also does anyone know if the cambelt is changed on a 60K service or is this
> >>> extra?
> >>
> >> It's a chain and will probably outlast the vehicle.
> >
> > No it's a belt and is showing signs of wear. So if it's not included that
> > will probably be an extra few shillings :(
>
> Ok.. I'm confused. The US 4.7 uses a chain to drive the overhead cams.
> It uses a belt to drive the alternator/AC Compressor/PS Pump/Fan.
>
> http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/Cammer/4_7_v8.html
>
> Unless they changed something on UK sold Jeeps.

SInce he can see that it has wear, you can pretty well bet it's the
external serpentine accessory belt. Something like $15-$40 US
available from after-market sources, 15 - 20 minute chore.

--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Will Honea

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:45:47 UTC "DougW"
<post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:

> c2dmw did pass the time by typing:
> > "DougW" wrote ...
> >> c2dmw did pass the time by typing:
>
> >>> Also does anyone know if the cambelt is changed on a 60K service or is this
> >>> extra?
> >>
> >> It's a chain and will probably outlast the vehicle.
> >
> > No it's a belt and is showing signs of wear. So if it's not included that
> > will probably be an extra few shillings :(
>
> Ok.. I'm confused. The US 4.7 uses a chain to drive the overhead cams.
> It uses a belt to drive the alternator/AC Compressor/PS Pump/Fan.
>
> http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/Cammer/4_7_v8.html
>
> Unless they changed something on UK sold Jeeps.

SInce he can see that it has wear, you can pretty well bet it's the
external serpentine accessory belt. Something like $15-$40 US
available from after-market sources, 15 - 20 minute chore.

--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Will Honea

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:45:47 UTC "DougW"
<post.replies@invalid.address> wrote:

> c2dmw did pass the time by typing:
> > "DougW" wrote ...
> >> c2dmw did pass the time by typing:
>
> >>> Also does anyone know if the cambelt is changed on a 60K service or is this
> >>> extra?
> >>
> >> It's a chain and will probably outlast the vehicle.
> >
> > No it's a belt and is showing signs of wear. So if it's not included that
> > will probably be an extra few shillings :(
>
> Ok.. I'm confused. The US 4.7 uses a chain to drive the overhead cams.
> It uses a belt to drive the alternator/AC Compressor/PS Pump/Fan.
>
> http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/Cammer/4_7_v8.html
>
> Unless they changed something on UK sold Jeeps.

SInce he can see that it has wear, you can pretty well bet it's the
external serpentine accessory belt. Something like $15-$40 US
available from after-market sources, 15 - 20 minute chore.

--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Jerry Newton

I suppose if you oversimplify it, then you do have it both ways. However,
if you really think about it, you are only getting what you pay for.

When you go to "Joe's Garage" for example, you get a discounted labor rate,
and you get a break on the parts price. What did you get for less money?
You got a guy that has no training and likely very little experience on your
specific vehicle, and you got the cheapest aftermarket parts that the guy
could find from the local parts house. Napa and others would like you to
believe that their stuff is as good as the factory stuff, but it just isn't.
Most of the time, you are getting a "remanufactured part" (read that: put
back together with as little cost as possible).

Couple this aftermarket part with the fact that the guy installing it is
experimenting on your vehicle, learning as he goes. I know, I have been
there. It is tough to work in small shops, because you are expected to be
an expert on every year, make and model, and nobody is. Sometimes, you have
to gamble with the customer's money because you don't have the skills or
resources to make an accurate diagnosis.

When the commercials say that Mr. Goodwrench is factory-trained, that is
what that means. We travel to regional training centers and are taught in a
hands-on environment on very specific subject matters and vehicle systems.
In my case, I am a GM tech. I work on all models of GM cars and trucks, but
most specifically, I am a Cadillac guy. I have spent more hours training
and studying GM powertrain than I can count. When you bring your car to me,
and tell me that it makes a funny noise when you start it cold, or the
steering wheel has a rattle in it, I know what is wrong with it before I
even see your vehicle, because this is what I do all day every day. People
think I am a genius because I go right to the source of their problem. I am
no genius. I am simply doing what you pay me to do. You came to my
dealership because you wanted the best guy to work on your car. I am giving
that to customers, and they don't bitch much about the labor rate. Most of
them know what they are paying for.

What does it cost to run a business? If you are a GM dealer, you pay tens
of thousands per month for the franchise. In return for that, one of the
things you have access to is a never-ending network of support personnel to
help you solve a problem. I can speak directly to field engineers or
technical assistance gurus. I can locate the specific part that I need for
your car in seconds, no matter where it is in the world. I have GM
management types that I can rely upon to make decisions about the best
course of action for your car (should I put a crankshaft in this car, or
should I replace the engine?). This franchise expense, of course, is in
addition to the physical plant. Buildings, lifts, transmission jacks,
engine stands, brake lathes, scan tools, and special tools specific to GM
products cost a lot of money, too. Not to mention my personal expenditure
of about $75,000 sitting in my toolbox, waiting to make me a living. People
think that I must exaggerate the cost of tools, but I can assure you that
this is no exaggeration. Where do you think the money comes from to pay for
these things? It comes from the $70 or so that the dealership charges as an
hourly labor rate, a portion of which is mine.

Sure, the distributor replacement was going to cost a tidy sum of cash, and
you opted to go aftermarket, and do it yourself. Hey, more power to ya.
Say that job pays the tech 1.0 hours of labor. That means that he does that
job for the predetermined price of 1.0 hours of his pay. That is regardless
of how much time it actually takes him. If it takes him 2.5 hours to get it
done, he isn't likely to try to charge you for that, unless there were some
strange circumstances. But look how cranked up you are about paying him an
hour of labor, knowing that he will have it done in 20 minutes. The tech
has to make his living across the board, not just fixing the things that
nobody else could figure out. We need some no-brainer, easy work to mix in
with the ***-kicking, intermittent transmission downshift while going
downhill in the rain during a full moon on Tuesdays.

I guess I said what I wanted to say. Having done that, I hope that you
continue to fix things yourself, or go to the local garage, because quite
frankly, I really don't want you for a customer. When I am faced with
charging a customer for a repair, I make a habit of looking at the service
history to see what kind of customer he is. If he has only come to me for
warranty repairs or things that Joe's Garage couldn't fix, I am gonna get
every penny I have coming to me, and not a penny more. If he has been to my
shop for every thing that goes wrong, and pays the bill without bitching, I
am way more prone to throwing him a bone once in awhile. I don't know what
business you are in, but I am sure that you don't do things any differently.
People are just more naturally pissed off at mechanics.


Jerry









"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:Fpyxb.16423$Gj2.12317@okepread01...
> Jerry Newton did pass the time by typing:
> > Hey hey hey, go easy on the dealer techs. You don't hesitate to bring
us
> > the things that you can't figure out, but you wanna crap on us when it's
> > time to get some maintenance done. Can't have it both ways, Doug.
>
> Actually I can, and while I have no problem with most dealerships some
> are simply out to screw the customer out of as much as they can. The hour
> costs are egregious for basic maintenance. At least double that of any
> decent local mechanic.
>
> Let me put this in perspective. How much does the dealer charge to change
> the transfer case fluid in a 93 ZJ Quadratrack? They charge enough that
> I was able to buy a snap-on socket to fit the fill and drain plugs, the
> ATF fluid, a small plastic pump to reach up there, and still had money
> left over for beer.
>
> The procedure? 1) take both plugs out and let case drain, 2) put lower
> plug back in and fill case till it comes out the top, 3) put top plug
> back in.
>
> As for competency. I have experienced both ends of the spectrum,
> fortunately the poorest when the Jeep was still under warrantee.
> Two of my best experiences:
>
> One was replacing the distributor. After the chief mechanic looked
> up the price for part and maintenance he called back and said it would
> be about $410.00, 195 for the part and 215 for service. In his words
> "Utter -------- for such an easy job." I knew the NAPA part is only
> $80 and with the simple instructions he gave me vs. the FSM, it took
> under 20min to do the whole thing, even stopping to take pictures.
> http://members.***.net/wilsond/distributor/
>
> The other was when I was having problems with the ABS failing as the
> Jeep went over bumps. The mechanic looked, tested, looked, swapped
> parts, tested, looked, and literally an hour later talked to me about
> the problem and how it was "moving." We both worked on it and even
> swapped out the brains. Problem came and went. Finally the only thing
> it could be was gremlins. One of the other mechanics stopped by to look
> and mentioned that the way they designed that POS the rain drips right
> on the connector. "you should clean that out or it's gonna cause all
> sorts of problem." So we grabbed a can of contact cleaner, sprayed the
> connector, stuck my old ABS computer back in there, and the problem was
> gone.
>
> Both of us muttered, "well, ----!" He explained about having to bill for
> time and I had no problem with that at all. Road salt had gotten into
> the connector and was screwing up the brains just enough that sensors
> would indicate faulty when they weren't. I chalked it up to an expensive
> lesson in cleaning the connectors first.
>
> Long story short. I don't have a problem with any mechanic as
> long as they are ethical in dealing with customers.
>
> --
> -- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.***.net/wilsond
> HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
> Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
>
>
>

Jerry Newton

I suppose if you oversimplify it, then you do have it both ways. However,
if you really think about it, you are only getting what you pay for.

When you go to "Joe's Garage" for example, you get a discounted labor rate,
and you get a break on the parts price. What did you get for less money?
You got a guy that has no training and likely very little experience on your
specific vehicle, and you got the cheapest aftermarket parts that the guy
could find from the local parts house. Napa and others would like you to
believe that their stuff is as good as the factory stuff, but it just isn't.
Most of the time, you are getting a "remanufactured part" (read that: put
back together with as little cost as possible).

Couple this aftermarket part with the fact that the guy installing it is
experimenting on your vehicle, learning as he goes. I know, I have been
there. It is tough to work in small shops, because you are expected to be
an expert on every year, make and model, and nobody is. Sometimes, you have
to gamble with the customer's money because you don't have the skills or
resources to make an accurate diagnosis.

When the commercials say that Mr. Goodwrench is factory-trained, that is
what that means. We travel to regional training centers and are taught in a
hands-on environment on very specific subject matters and vehicle systems.
In my case, I am a GM tech. I work on all models of GM cars and trucks, but
most specifically, I am a Cadillac guy. I have spent more hours training
and studying GM powertrain than I can count. When you bring your car to me,
and tell me that it makes a funny noise when you start it cold, or the
steering wheel has a rattle in it, I know what is wrong with it before I
even see your vehicle, because this is what I do all day every day. People
think I am a genius because I go right to the source of their problem. I am
no genius. I am simply doing what you pay me to do. You came to my
dealership because you wanted the best guy to work on your car. I am giving
that to customers, and they don't bitch much about the labor rate. Most of
them know what they are paying for.

What does it cost to run a business? If you are a GM dealer, you pay tens
of thousands per month for the franchise. In return for that, one of the
things you have access to is a never-ending network of support personnel to
help you solve a problem. I can speak directly to field engineers or
technical assistance gurus. I can locate the specific part that I need for
your car in seconds, no matter where it is in the world. I have GM
management types that I can rely upon to make decisions about the best
course of action for your car (should I put a crankshaft in this car, or
should I replace the engine?). This franchise expense, of course, is in
addition to the physical plant. Buildings, lifts, transmission jacks,
engine stands, brake lathes, scan tools, and special tools specific to GM
products cost a lot of money, too. Not to mention my personal expenditure
of about $75,000 sitting in my toolbox, waiting to make me a living. People
think that I must exaggerate the cost of tools, but I can assure you that
this is no exaggeration. Where do you think the money comes from to pay for
these things? It comes from the $70 or so that the dealership charges as an
hourly labor rate, a portion of which is mine.

Sure, the distributor replacement was going to cost a tidy sum of cash, and
you opted to go aftermarket, and do it yourself. Hey, more power to ya.
Say that job pays the tech 1.0 hours of labor. That means that he does that
job for the predetermined price of 1.0 hours of his pay. That is regardless
of how much time it actually takes him. If it takes him 2.5 hours to get it
done, he isn't likely to try to charge you for that, unless there were some
strange circumstances. But look how cranked up you are about paying him an
hour of labor, knowing that he will have it done in 20 minutes. The tech
has to make his living across the board, not just fixing the things that
nobody else could figure out. We need some no-brainer, easy work to mix in
with the ***-kicking, intermittent transmission downshift while going
downhill in the rain during a full moon on Tuesdays.

I guess I said what I wanted to say. Having done that, I hope that you
continue to fix things yourself, or go to the local garage, because quite
frankly, I really don't want you for a customer. When I am faced with
charging a customer for a repair, I make a habit of looking at the service
history to see what kind of customer he is. If he has only come to me for
warranty repairs or things that Joe's Garage couldn't fix, I am gonna get
every penny I have coming to me, and not a penny more. If he has been to my
shop for every thing that goes wrong, and pays the bill without bitching, I
am way more prone to throwing him a bone once in awhile. I don't know what
business you are in, but I am sure that you don't do things any differently.
People are just more naturally pissed off at mechanics.


Jerry









"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:Fpyxb.16423$Gj2.12317@okepread01...
> Jerry Newton did pass the time by typing:
> > Hey hey hey, go easy on the dealer techs. You don't hesitate to bring
us
> > the things that you can't figure out, but you wanna crap on us when it's
> > time to get some maintenance done. Can't have it both ways, Doug.
>
> Actually I can, and while I have no problem with most dealerships some
> are simply out to screw the customer out of as much as they can. The hour
> costs are egregious for basic maintenance. At least double that of any
> decent local mechanic.
>
> Let me put this in perspective. How much does the dealer charge to change
> the transfer case fluid in a 93 ZJ Quadratrack? They charge enough that
> I was able to buy a snap-on socket to fit the fill and drain plugs, the
> ATF fluid, a small plastic pump to reach up there, and still had money
> left over for beer.
>
> The procedure? 1) take both plugs out and let case drain, 2) put lower
> plug back in and fill case till it comes out the top, 3) put top plug
> back in.
>
> As for competency. I have experienced both ends of the spectrum,
> fortunately the poorest when the Jeep was still under warrantee.
> Two of my best experiences:
>
> One was replacing the distributor. After the chief mechanic looked
> up the price for part and maintenance he called back and said it would
> be about $410.00, 195 for the part and 215 for service. In his words
> "Utter -------- for such an easy job." I knew the NAPA part is only
> $80 and with the simple instructions he gave me vs. the FSM, it took
> under 20min to do the whole thing, even stopping to take pictures.
> http://members.***.net/wilsond/distributor/
>
> The other was when I was having problems with the ABS failing as the
> Jeep went over bumps. The mechanic looked, tested, looked, swapped
> parts, tested, looked, and literally an hour later talked to me about
> the problem and how it was "moving." We both worked on it and even
> swapped out the brains. Problem came and went. Finally the only thing
> it could be was gremlins. One of the other mechanics stopped by to look
> and mentioned that the way they designed that POS the rain drips right
> on the connector. "you should clean that out or it's gonna cause all
> sorts of problem." So we grabbed a can of contact cleaner, sprayed the
> connector, stuck my old ABS computer back in there, and the problem was
> gone.
>
> Both of us muttered, "well, ----!" He explained about having to bill for
> time and I had no problem with that at all. Road salt had gotten into
> the connector and was screwing up the brains just enough that sensors
> would indicate faulty when they weren't. I chalked it up to an expensive
> lesson in cleaning the connectors first.
>
> Long story short. I don't have a problem with any mechanic as
> long as they are ethical in dealing with customers.
>
> --
> -- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.***.net/wilsond
> HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
> Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
>
>
>