UK: Jeep Grand Cherokee
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:35:09 -0000, <c2dmw^nospam^@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I got a quote 700 quid :( from the main dealer. Idealy I'd like to find a
>independent Jeep specialist for half the price.
That is indeed about what it costs at a dealer. If you'd like me to
look up exactly what they are supposed to do for the money
I understand there is an independent in Bicester called EDM,
http://www.edm-jeep.co.uk/ who wouldn't be a million miles away from
you. I have no idea what they are like as I have never used them, nor
have I heard any reports.
>No it's a belt and is showing signs of wear. So if it's not included that
>will probably be an extra few shillings :(
That is the serpentine belt, not the cam belt (as it hasn't got one!)
They do wear, and they are almost as important as a cam belt would be,
in the sense that if it breaks, you will have to get towed home. They
cost around £40.
--
Regards,
Simon Worby
>I got a quote 700 quid :( from the main dealer. Idealy I'd like to find a
>independent Jeep specialist for half the price.
That is indeed about what it costs at a dealer. If you'd like me to
look up exactly what they are supposed to do for the money
I understand there is an independent in Bicester called EDM,
http://www.edm-jeep.co.uk/ who wouldn't be a million miles away from
you. I have no idea what they are like as I have never used them, nor
have I heard any reports.
>No it's a belt and is showing signs of wear. So if it's not included that
>will probably be an extra few shillings :(
That is the serpentine belt, not the cam belt (as it hasn't got one!)
They do wear, and they are almost as important as a cam belt would be,
in the sense that if it breaks, you will have to get towed home. They
cost around £40.
--
Regards,
Simon Worby
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:35:09 -0000, <c2dmw^nospam^@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I got a quote 700 quid :( from the main dealer. Idealy I'd like to find a
>independent Jeep specialist for half the price.
That is indeed about what it costs at a dealer. If you'd like me to
look up exactly what they are supposed to do for the money
I understand there is an independent in Bicester called EDM,
http://www.edm-jeep.co.uk/ who wouldn't be a million miles away from
you. I have no idea what they are like as I have never used them, nor
have I heard any reports.
>No it's a belt and is showing signs of wear. So if it's not included that
>will probably be an extra few shillings :(
That is the serpentine belt, not the cam belt (as it hasn't got one!)
They do wear, and they are almost as important as a cam belt would be,
in the sense that if it breaks, you will have to get towed home. They
cost around £40.
--
Regards,
Simon Worby
>I got a quote 700 quid :( from the main dealer. Idealy I'd like to find a
>independent Jeep specialist for half the price.
That is indeed about what it costs at a dealer. If you'd like me to
look up exactly what they are supposed to do for the money
I understand there is an independent in Bicester called EDM,
http://www.edm-jeep.co.uk/ who wouldn't be a million miles away from
you. I have no idea what they are like as I have never used them, nor
have I heard any reports.
>No it's a belt and is showing signs of wear. So if it's not included that
>will probably be an extra few shillings :(
That is the serpentine belt, not the cam belt (as it hasn't got one!)
They do wear, and they are almost as important as a cam belt would be,
in the sense that if it breaks, you will have to get towed home. They
cost around £40.
--
Regards,
Simon Worby
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:wPXxb.17019$Gj2.9509@okepread01...
> Jerry Newton did pass the time by typing:
> > I suppose if you oversimplify it, then you do have it both ways.
However,
> > if you really think about it, you are only getting what you pay for.
>
> False to fact.
Absolutely true, you get less if you pay less.
> > When you go to "Joe's Garage" for example, you get a discounted labor
rate,
> > and you get a break on the parts price. What did you get for less
money?
>
> The same exact service that most dealerships offer at a lower price due to
> less overhead.
Then you are disillusioned. I have worked both sides, and that is how I
have the advantage of knowledge. I try to give you a little insight into
the business, and you call me a liar. Nice.
> > and you got the cheapest aftermarket parts that the guy
> > could find from the local parts house. Napa and others would like you
to
> > believe that their stuff is as good as the factory stuff, but it just
isn't.
> > Most of the time, you are getting a "remanufactured part" (read that:
put
> > back together with as little cost as possible).
>
> Sometimes that is true. Sometimes that part is the same exact one that
> Jeep uses, from the same manufacturer. And in the case of the disc brakes
> I purchsed, a far superior product that the crappy DC units that
delaminate
> when exposed to salt.
It is always true. In the independent, we would call all of the parts
houses to get the lowest price. Quality was never a factor, only price.
> > Couple this aftermarket part with the fact that the guy installing it is
> > experimenting on your vehicle, learning as he goes.
>
> Vs the Jeep tech that learned as he went and cost the dealership a whole
> longblock I6 and me about a week and nearly my life when the oil leak they
> "fixed" lead up to my engine siezed on the highway? Neophyte mechanics
> are not unique to any business.
Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone has to start somewhere. Hey, you got
a free engine. If an engine failure nearly cost you your life, I have to
bring your driving skills into question.
> > I can locate the specific part that I need for
> > your car in seconds, no matter where it is in the world.
>
> So can NAPA and most other parts houses. So can one of my favorite
> parts houses, buymopar.com that just happens to be a dealer and sells
> parts at non-ripoff prices.
>
> > I have GM management types that I can rely upon to make decisions about
the best
> > course of action for your car
>
> Your kidding me, a management type making decisions. Go on, pull the
other one.
Didn't you say that YOU were a management type?
> I did however trust the local sevice advisor. He bent over backwards to
see
> that my time was not wasted. I was sorry to see him leave but it was for
the
> best as he now manages a dealership.
>
> > Buildings, lifts, transmission jacks, engine stands, brake lathes, scan
> > tools, and special tools specific to GM products cost a lot of money,
too.
>
> Nothing there that any reasonable shop will have. the DRB scantools are
not
> unique to any shop. I have quite a few specialty tools myself. One of my
> coworkers even has a hydraulic lift, he rebuilds antique cars as a hobby.
You don't know how many calls I get per day asking to borrow one special
tool or another. You can't assume that everybody turning wrench is all
rigged up with tools.
> > Not to mention my personal expenditure of about $75,000 sitting in my
toolbox,
> > waiting to make me a living. People
> > think that I must exaggerate the cost of tools, but I can assure you
that
> > this is no exaggeration. Where do you think the money comes from to pay
for
> > these things? It comes from the $70 or so that the dealership charges
as an
> > hourly labor rate, a portion of which is mine.
>
> I have Snap-On, S&K, and others as well. While not up to 75K it sure
comes close
> to 20K or so. There is nothing wrong with having good tools especially if
your
> using them to earn a living. Never said that. However I do have the
luxury of
> only needing tools for my particular vehicle. One of my friends that used
to work
> for Jeep but now works for Honda has a collection that tops 100K.
>
> > I guess I said what I wanted to say. Having done that, I hope that you
> > continue to fix things yourself, or go to the local garage, because
quite
> > frankly, I really don't want you for a customer. When I am faced with
> > charging a customer for a repair, I make a habit of looking at the
service
> > history to see what kind of customer he is. If he has only come to me
for
> > warranty repairs or things that Joe's Garage couldn't fix, I am gonna
get
> > every penny I have coming to me, and not a penny more.
>
> Of course. Because that is "warrantee money." Why not pump the insurance
> company for as much as you can.
You don't know what you are talking about. Don't do that.
> > If he has been to my
> > shop for every thing that goes wrong, and pays the bill without
bitching, I
> > am way more prone to throwing him a bone once in awhile.
>
> Just like the casinos do in Vegas. They want to keep that sucker coming
back
> again and again. So they give out rooms and dinners and shows just so the
> mark will come back and drop money in their casino.
>
> > I don't know what
> > business you are in, but I am sure that you don't do things any
differently.
I should have added, "Nor do I care what business you are in."
> I design and evaluate communications systems for the US Government that
support
> emergency response, force protection, and nuclear surety around the world.
I also
> evaluate contractors on multi million dollar contracts for communications
systems.
> One of the systems I personally built supports the forces at Prince Sultan
Air Force
> Base (PSAB) in the UAE. My job is being responsible for the integrity of
systems that
> protect the lives of our armed forces and the security of this nation. As
a rule
> I hold all individuals accountable for their actions, but none more so
than myself.
> They refer to my position as a "non combatant". In other words I am
expected to
> put my *** on the line just like any in the armed services, except I go in
unarmed.
>
> > People are just more naturally pissed off at mechanics.
>
> Why would you say that?
Because it is true. When a guy's car breaks, he is on foot, and pissed off
about it. Couple it with the fact that he has to pay someone to fix it.
Hey, I am not complaining, I wouldn't do this if I couldn't handle it.
I'm not angry at mechanics, nor at you despite what this
> thread is turning out to be. I am however vehemently opposed to any
individual
> that takes advantage of peoples naiveté for profit.
Your contractors are doing it to you. Do you only contract non-profit,
charitable organizations to do your work?
> Actually I despise spammers the most. They are perhaps the only people on
this
> planet I wouldn't mind seeing gassed.
>
> --
> DougW
>
>
As always, I enjoy criticism, and look forward to sparring with anyone else
that wants to bring my integrity and honesty into question in a public
forum.
Jerry
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:wPXxb.17019$Gj2.9509@okepread01...
> Jerry Newton did pass the time by typing:
> > I suppose if you oversimplify it, then you do have it both ways.
However,
> > if you really think about it, you are only getting what you pay for.
>
> False to fact.
Absolutely true, you get less if you pay less.
> > When you go to "Joe's Garage" for example, you get a discounted labor
rate,
> > and you get a break on the parts price. What did you get for less
money?
>
> The same exact service that most dealerships offer at a lower price due to
> less overhead.
Then you are disillusioned. I have worked both sides, and that is how I
have the advantage of knowledge. I try to give you a little insight into
the business, and you call me a liar. Nice.
> > and you got the cheapest aftermarket parts that the guy
> > could find from the local parts house. Napa and others would like you
to
> > believe that their stuff is as good as the factory stuff, but it just
isn't.
> > Most of the time, you are getting a "remanufactured part" (read that:
put
> > back together with as little cost as possible).
>
> Sometimes that is true. Sometimes that part is the same exact one that
> Jeep uses, from the same manufacturer. And in the case of the disc brakes
> I purchsed, a far superior product that the crappy DC units that
delaminate
> when exposed to salt.
It is always true. In the independent, we would call all of the parts
houses to get the lowest price. Quality was never a factor, only price.
> > Couple this aftermarket part with the fact that the guy installing it is
> > experimenting on your vehicle, learning as he goes.
>
> Vs the Jeep tech that learned as he went and cost the dealership a whole
> longblock I6 and me about a week and nearly my life when the oil leak they
> "fixed" lead up to my engine siezed on the highway? Neophyte mechanics
> are not unique to any business.
Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone has to start somewhere. Hey, you got
a free engine. If an engine failure nearly cost you your life, I have to
bring your driving skills into question.
> > I can locate the specific part that I need for
> > your car in seconds, no matter where it is in the world.
>
> So can NAPA and most other parts houses. So can one of my favorite
> parts houses, buymopar.com that just happens to be a dealer and sells
> parts at non-ripoff prices.
>
> > I have GM management types that I can rely upon to make decisions about
the best
> > course of action for your car
>
> Your kidding me, a management type making decisions. Go on, pull the
other one.
Didn't you say that YOU were a management type?
> I did however trust the local sevice advisor. He bent over backwards to
see
> that my time was not wasted. I was sorry to see him leave but it was for
the
> best as he now manages a dealership.
>
> > Buildings, lifts, transmission jacks, engine stands, brake lathes, scan
> > tools, and special tools specific to GM products cost a lot of money,
too.
>
> Nothing there that any reasonable shop will have. the DRB scantools are
not
> unique to any shop. I have quite a few specialty tools myself. One of my
> coworkers even has a hydraulic lift, he rebuilds antique cars as a hobby.
You don't know how many calls I get per day asking to borrow one special
tool or another. You can't assume that everybody turning wrench is all
rigged up with tools.
> > Not to mention my personal expenditure of about $75,000 sitting in my
toolbox,
> > waiting to make me a living. People
> > think that I must exaggerate the cost of tools, but I can assure you
that
> > this is no exaggeration. Where do you think the money comes from to pay
for
> > these things? It comes from the $70 or so that the dealership charges
as an
> > hourly labor rate, a portion of which is mine.
>
> I have Snap-On, S&K, and others as well. While not up to 75K it sure
comes close
> to 20K or so. There is nothing wrong with having good tools especially if
your
> using them to earn a living. Never said that. However I do have the
luxury of
> only needing tools for my particular vehicle. One of my friends that used
to work
> for Jeep but now works for Honda has a collection that tops 100K.
>
> > I guess I said what I wanted to say. Having done that, I hope that you
> > continue to fix things yourself, or go to the local garage, because
quite
> > frankly, I really don't want you for a customer. When I am faced with
> > charging a customer for a repair, I make a habit of looking at the
service
> > history to see what kind of customer he is. If he has only come to me
for
> > warranty repairs or things that Joe's Garage couldn't fix, I am gonna
get
> > every penny I have coming to me, and not a penny more.
>
> Of course. Because that is "warrantee money." Why not pump the insurance
> company for as much as you can.
You don't know what you are talking about. Don't do that.
> > If he has been to my
> > shop for every thing that goes wrong, and pays the bill without
bitching, I
> > am way more prone to throwing him a bone once in awhile.
>
> Just like the casinos do in Vegas. They want to keep that sucker coming
back
> again and again. So they give out rooms and dinners and shows just so the
> mark will come back and drop money in their casino.
>
> > I don't know what
> > business you are in, but I am sure that you don't do things any
differently.
I should have added, "Nor do I care what business you are in."
> I design and evaluate communications systems for the US Government that
support
> emergency response, force protection, and nuclear surety around the world.
I also
> evaluate contractors on multi million dollar contracts for communications
systems.
> One of the systems I personally built supports the forces at Prince Sultan
Air Force
> Base (PSAB) in the UAE. My job is being responsible for the integrity of
systems that
> protect the lives of our armed forces and the security of this nation. As
a rule
> I hold all individuals accountable for their actions, but none more so
than myself.
> They refer to my position as a "non combatant". In other words I am
expected to
> put my *** on the line just like any in the armed services, except I go in
unarmed.
>
> > People are just more naturally pissed off at mechanics.
>
> Why would you say that?
Because it is true. When a guy's car breaks, he is on foot, and pissed off
about it. Couple it with the fact that he has to pay someone to fix it.
Hey, I am not complaining, I wouldn't do this if I couldn't handle it.
I'm not angry at mechanics, nor at you despite what this
> thread is turning out to be. I am however vehemently opposed to any
individual
> that takes advantage of peoples naiveté for profit.
Your contractors are doing it to you. Do you only contract non-profit,
charitable organizations to do your work?
> Actually I despise spammers the most. They are perhaps the only people on
this
> planet I wouldn't mind seeing gassed.
>
> --
> DougW
>
>
As always, I enjoy criticism, and look forward to sparring with anyone else
that wants to bring my integrity and honesty into question in a public
forum.
Jerry
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:wPXxb.17019$Gj2.9509@okepread01...
> Jerry Newton did pass the time by typing:
> > I suppose if you oversimplify it, then you do have it both ways.
However,
> > if you really think about it, you are only getting what you pay for.
>
> False to fact.
Absolutely true, you get less if you pay less.
> > When you go to "Joe's Garage" for example, you get a discounted labor
rate,
> > and you get a break on the parts price. What did you get for less
money?
>
> The same exact service that most dealerships offer at a lower price due to
> less overhead.
Then you are disillusioned. I have worked both sides, and that is how I
have the advantage of knowledge. I try to give you a little insight into
the business, and you call me a liar. Nice.
> > and you got the cheapest aftermarket parts that the guy
> > could find from the local parts house. Napa and others would like you
to
> > believe that their stuff is as good as the factory stuff, but it just
isn't.
> > Most of the time, you are getting a "remanufactured part" (read that:
put
> > back together with as little cost as possible).
>
> Sometimes that is true. Sometimes that part is the same exact one that
> Jeep uses, from the same manufacturer. And in the case of the disc brakes
> I purchsed, a far superior product that the crappy DC units that
delaminate
> when exposed to salt.
It is always true. In the independent, we would call all of the parts
houses to get the lowest price. Quality was never a factor, only price.
> > Couple this aftermarket part with the fact that the guy installing it is
> > experimenting on your vehicle, learning as he goes.
>
> Vs the Jeep tech that learned as he went and cost the dealership a whole
> longblock I6 and me about a week and nearly my life when the oil leak they
> "fixed" lead up to my engine siezed on the highway? Neophyte mechanics
> are not unique to any business.
Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone has to start somewhere. Hey, you got
a free engine. If an engine failure nearly cost you your life, I have to
bring your driving skills into question.
> > I can locate the specific part that I need for
> > your car in seconds, no matter where it is in the world.
>
> So can NAPA and most other parts houses. So can one of my favorite
> parts houses, buymopar.com that just happens to be a dealer and sells
> parts at non-ripoff prices.
>
> > I have GM management types that I can rely upon to make decisions about
the best
> > course of action for your car
>
> Your kidding me, a management type making decisions. Go on, pull the
other one.
Didn't you say that YOU were a management type?
> I did however trust the local sevice advisor. He bent over backwards to
see
> that my time was not wasted. I was sorry to see him leave but it was for
the
> best as he now manages a dealership.
>
> > Buildings, lifts, transmission jacks, engine stands, brake lathes, scan
> > tools, and special tools specific to GM products cost a lot of money,
too.
>
> Nothing there that any reasonable shop will have. the DRB scantools are
not
> unique to any shop. I have quite a few specialty tools myself. One of my
> coworkers even has a hydraulic lift, he rebuilds antique cars as a hobby.
You don't know how many calls I get per day asking to borrow one special
tool or another. You can't assume that everybody turning wrench is all
rigged up with tools.
> > Not to mention my personal expenditure of about $75,000 sitting in my
toolbox,
> > waiting to make me a living. People
> > think that I must exaggerate the cost of tools, but I can assure you
that
> > this is no exaggeration. Where do you think the money comes from to pay
for
> > these things? It comes from the $70 or so that the dealership charges
as an
> > hourly labor rate, a portion of which is mine.
>
> I have Snap-On, S&K, and others as well. While not up to 75K it sure
comes close
> to 20K or so. There is nothing wrong with having good tools especially if
your
> using them to earn a living. Never said that. However I do have the
luxury of
> only needing tools for my particular vehicle. One of my friends that used
to work
> for Jeep but now works for Honda has a collection that tops 100K.
>
> > I guess I said what I wanted to say. Having done that, I hope that you
> > continue to fix things yourself, or go to the local garage, because
quite
> > frankly, I really don't want you for a customer. When I am faced with
> > charging a customer for a repair, I make a habit of looking at the
service
> > history to see what kind of customer he is. If he has only come to me
for
> > warranty repairs or things that Joe's Garage couldn't fix, I am gonna
get
> > every penny I have coming to me, and not a penny more.
>
> Of course. Because that is "warrantee money." Why not pump the insurance
> company for as much as you can.
You don't know what you are talking about. Don't do that.
> > If he has been to my
> > shop for every thing that goes wrong, and pays the bill without
bitching, I
> > am way more prone to throwing him a bone once in awhile.
>
> Just like the casinos do in Vegas. They want to keep that sucker coming
back
> again and again. So they give out rooms and dinners and shows just so the
> mark will come back and drop money in their casino.
>
> > I don't know what
> > business you are in, but I am sure that you don't do things any
differently.
I should have added, "Nor do I care what business you are in."
> I design and evaluate communications systems for the US Government that
support
> emergency response, force protection, and nuclear surety around the world.
I also
> evaluate contractors on multi million dollar contracts for communications
systems.
> One of the systems I personally built supports the forces at Prince Sultan
Air Force
> Base (PSAB) in the UAE. My job is being responsible for the integrity of
systems that
> protect the lives of our armed forces and the security of this nation. As
a rule
> I hold all individuals accountable for their actions, but none more so
than myself.
> They refer to my position as a "non combatant". In other words I am
expected to
> put my *** on the line just like any in the armed services, except I go in
unarmed.
>
> > People are just more naturally pissed off at mechanics.
>
> Why would you say that?
Because it is true. When a guy's car breaks, he is on foot, and pissed off
about it. Couple it with the fact that he has to pay someone to fix it.
Hey, I am not complaining, I wouldn't do this if I couldn't handle it.
I'm not angry at mechanics, nor at you despite what this
> thread is turning out to be. I am however vehemently opposed to any
individual
> that takes advantage of peoples naiveté for profit.
Your contractors are doing it to you. Do you only contract non-profit,
charitable organizations to do your work?
> Actually I despise spammers the most. They are perhaps the only people on
this
> planet I wouldn't mind seeing gassed.
>
> --
> DougW
>
>
As always, I enjoy criticism, and look forward to sparring with anyone else
that wants to bring my integrity and honesty into question in a public
forum.
Jerry
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee
Approximately 12/1/03 05:48, Jerry Newton still blathering:
>
> Absolutely true, you get less if you pay less.
Economic ignorance. Lower overhead allows lower pricing.
Not that all independent shops charge less than dealers, some
actually charge the same and one I can name charges more than
the dealer located roughly two blocks away. And another local
specialty Jeep shop charges well over the local dealer rates and
still has a waiting list...with some of that list sent
over by two local Jeep dealers.
>
> Then you are disillusioned. I have worked both sides, and that is how I
> have the advantage of knowledge. I try to give you a little insight into
> the business, and you call me a liar. Nice.
You aren't offering insight, you are making unfounded one-sided
claims. These *may* be based on your own pathetic personal
experience, but judging from your posting record, even that
is doubtful.
>
> It is always true. In the independent, we would call all of the parts
> houses to get the lowest price. Quality was never a factor, only price.
So you worked for a rip-off cheapass shop. Not all independents
are as dishonest or cheap as yours. Some even offer price ranges
and are willing to discuss the differences between a cheap
Chinese muffler and a premium brand like Borla, Abarth, etc.
If you were correct, which by no means you are, none of the
premium, better-than-factory, brands would exist...since there
would be no shops willing to carry or install them.
--
Still a Raiders fan, but no longer sure why.
>
> Absolutely true, you get less if you pay less.
Economic ignorance. Lower overhead allows lower pricing.
Not that all independent shops charge less than dealers, some
actually charge the same and one I can name charges more than
the dealer located roughly two blocks away. And another local
specialty Jeep shop charges well over the local dealer rates and
still has a waiting list...with some of that list sent
over by two local Jeep dealers.
>
> Then you are disillusioned. I have worked both sides, and that is how I
> have the advantage of knowledge. I try to give you a little insight into
> the business, and you call me a liar. Nice.
You aren't offering insight, you are making unfounded one-sided
claims. These *may* be based on your own pathetic personal
experience, but judging from your posting record, even that
is doubtful.
>
> It is always true. In the independent, we would call all of the parts
> houses to get the lowest price. Quality was never a factor, only price.
So you worked for a rip-off cheapass shop. Not all independents
are as dishonest or cheap as yours. Some even offer price ranges
and are willing to discuss the differences between a cheap
Chinese muffler and a premium brand like Borla, Abarth, etc.
If you were correct, which by no means you are, none of the
premium, better-than-factory, brands would exist...since there
would be no shops willing to carry or install them.
--
Still a Raiders fan, but no longer sure why.
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee
Approximately 12/1/03 05:48, Jerry Newton still blathering:
>
> Absolutely true, you get less if you pay less.
Economic ignorance. Lower overhead allows lower pricing.
Not that all independent shops charge less than dealers, some
actually charge the same and one I can name charges more than
the dealer located roughly two blocks away. And another local
specialty Jeep shop charges well over the local dealer rates and
still has a waiting list...with some of that list sent
over by two local Jeep dealers.
>
> Then you are disillusioned. I have worked both sides, and that is how I
> have the advantage of knowledge. I try to give you a little insight into
> the business, and you call me a liar. Nice.
You aren't offering insight, you are making unfounded one-sided
claims. These *may* be based on your own pathetic personal
experience, but judging from your posting record, even that
is doubtful.
>
> It is always true. In the independent, we would call all of the parts
> houses to get the lowest price. Quality was never a factor, only price.
So you worked for a rip-off cheapass shop. Not all independents
are as dishonest or cheap as yours. Some even offer price ranges
and are willing to discuss the differences between a cheap
Chinese muffler and a premium brand like Borla, Abarth, etc.
If you were correct, which by no means you are, none of the
premium, better-than-factory, brands would exist...since there
would be no shops willing to carry or install them.
--
Still a Raiders fan, but no longer sure why.
>
> Absolutely true, you get less if you pay less.
Economic ignorance. Lower overhead allows lower pricing.
Not that all independent shops charge less than dealers, some
actually charge the same and one I can name charges more than
the dealer located roughly two blocks away. And another local
specialty Jeep shop charges well over the local dealer rates and
still has a waiting list...with some of that list sent
over by two local Jeep dealers.
>
> Then you are disillusioned. I have worked both sides, and that is how I
> have the advantage of knowledge. I try to give you a little insight into
> the business, and you call me a liar. Nice.
You aren't offering insight, you are making unfounded one-sided
claims. These *may* be based on your own pathetic personal
experience, but judging from your posting record, even that
is doubtful.
>
> It is always true. In the independent, we would call all of the parts
> houses to get the lowest price. Quality was never a factor, only price.
So you worked for a rip-off cheapass shop. Not all independents
are as dishonest or cheap as yours. Some even offer price ranges
and are willing to discuss the differences between a cheap
Chinese muffler and a premium brand like Borla, Abarth, etc.
If you were correct, which by no means you are, none of the
premium, better-than-factory, brands would exist...since there
would be no shops willing to carry or install them.
--
Still a Raiders fan, but no longer sure why.
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee
Approximately 12/1/03 05:48, Jerry Newton still blathering:
>
> Absolutely true, you get less if you pay less.
Economic ignorance. Lower overhead allows lower pricing.
Not that all independent shops charge less than dealers, some
actually charge the same and one I can name charges more than
the dealer located roughly two blocks away. And another local
specialty Jeep shop charges well over the local dealer rates and
still has a waiting list...with some of that list sent
over by two local Jeep dealers.
>
> Then you are disillusioned. I have worked both sides, and that is how I
> have the advantage of knowledge. I try to give you a little insight into
> the business, and you call me a liar. Nice.
You aren't offering insight, you are making unfounded one-sided
claims. These *may* be based on your own pathetic personal
experience, but judging from your posting record, even that
is doubtful.
>
> It is always true. In the independent, we would call all of the parts
> houses to get the lowest price. Quality was never a factor, only price.
So you worked for a rip-off cheapass shop. Not all independents
are as dishonest or cheap as yours. Some even offer price ranges
and are willing to discuss the differences between a cheap
Chinese muffler and a premium brand like Borla, Abarth, etc.
If you were correct, which by no means you are, none of the
premium, better-than-factory, brands would exist...since there
would be no shops willing to carry or install them.
--
Still a Raiders fan, but no longer sure why.
>
> Absolutely true, you get less if you pay less.
Economic ignorance. Lower overhead allows lower pricing.
Not that all independent shops charge less than dealers, some
actually charge the same and one I can name charges more than
the dealer located roughly two blocks away. And another local
specialty Jeep shop charges well over the local dealer rates and
still has a waiting list...with some of that list sent
over by two local Jeep dealers.
>
> Then you are disillusioned. I have worked both sides, and that is how I
> have the advantage of knowledge. I try to give you a little insight into
> the business, and you call me a liar. Nice.
You aren't offering insight, you are making unfounded one-sided
claims. These *may* be based on your own pathetic personal
experience, but judging from your posting record, even that
is doubtful.
>
> It is always true. In the independent, we would call all of the parts
> houses to get the lowest price. Quality was never a factor, only price.
So you worked for a rip-off cheapass shop. Not all independents
are as dishonest or cheap as yours. Some even offer price ranges
and are willing to discuss the differences between a cheap
Chinese muffler and a premium brand like Borla, Abarth, etc.
If you were correct, which by no means you are, none of the
premium, better-than-factory, brands would exist...since there
would be no shops willing to carry or install them.
--
Still a Raiders fan, but no longer sure why.
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