Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
06-24-2006, 05:37 AM
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
Yes you throw your money away if you do not use synthetic oil it is about
the sheer strength
Key Advantages of Synthetic
1) Volatility: Synthetics do not evaporate as readily as Petrol. based.
Usually, synthetic lubricants are
based on 1 molecule with a flat distillation curve.
2) Better viscosity versus temperature behavior Thin less as they get hot
Thicken less as they cool
3) better oxidation stability
4) Synthetic Oil has 10% better heat transfer than Petroleum based
lubricants.
Viscosity Index Improvers
Rubber and Plastic Polymers
Start with a base of straight weight Oil. Then add a polymeric thickener.
When hot, the long polymer chain
is really moving around, causing the oil to flow less. When cold, the
polymers stick to each other,
essentially coming out of suspension. The polymers are stable up to about
210 F, where they start to
break up. The drawbacks to VI polymers is that they can cause engine dirt
because of their low shear
strength.
Viscosity A B C D
High | ' ' ' '
| ' ' ' '
|* ' ' ' '
| \ ' ' ' '
| *- ' ' ' '
| *\ ' ' ' '
| *- ' ' ' '
| *\' ' ' '
| *- ' ' '
| ' *\ ' ' '
|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
| ' *-*\ ' ' '
| ' *\*-*\*-*\*-*\*-*\*-*\*-*\*-*\*-*\
| ' ' ' '
Low |_________________________________________________ ____________
Low High
Sheer Rate
A Shear at Piston Rings
B Shear at Main Bearings
C Shear at Cylinder Wall
D Shear at Connecting Rod Bearings
-+-+ Viscosity of a Straight Weight Oil (Petro. Or Synthetic)
*\*- Viscosity of A MultiGrade Oil (Base with VI polymers)
What this chart shows is that a straight oil has the same viscosity
regardless of shear rate. However, as the
shear rate increases, the shear breaks down the VI polymers, and multigrade
oils have less actual viscosity
at the localized high shear rate area.
The weak link is the rod bearings and Cam, in terms of rate of shear. There
is less friction at the piston
rings. Anti Wear is much more important at the cam.
Coasty
"Earle Horton" <Nurse-NOSPAM-Busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:449a9b05$0$3478$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
> Unless you are operating your vehicle under severe operating conditions,
> you
> are flushing money down the toilet changing oil every 3,000 miles. Just
> make sure that the oil is hot when drained, so you don't get sludge.
>
> Earle
>
> "JEEPMAN" <JPMN55@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:21874-449A77AA-163@storefull-3133.bay.webtv.net...
>> I know this has been discussed here before, but I'm going to bring it
>> up again: Is it too late to switch over from dino oil to a synthetic
>> blend at 28K? The model year is 2002 and I've had the oil changed on or
>> about every 3K miles. Also, does the system have to be flushed? TIA
>>
>
>
the sheer strength
Key Advantages of Synthetic
1) Volatility: Synthetics do not evaporate as readily as Petrol. based.
Usually, synthetic lubricants are
based on 1 molecule with a flat distillation curve.
2) Better viscosity versus temperature behavior Thin less as they get hot
Thicken less as they cool
3) better oxidation stability
4) Synthetic Oil has 10% better heat transfer than Petroleum based
lubricants.
Viscosity Index Improvers
Rubber and Plastic Polymers
Start with a base of straight weight Oil. Then add a polymeric thickener.
When hot, the long polymer chain
is really moving around, causing the oil to flow less. When cold, the
polymers stick to each other,
essentially coming out of suspension. The polymers are stable up to about
210 F, where they start to
break up. The drawbacks to VI polymers is that they can cause engine dirt
because of their low shear
strength.
Viscosity A B C D
High | ' ' ' '
| ' ' ' '
|* ' ' ' '
| \ ' ' ' '
| *- ' ' ' '
| *\ ' ' ' '
| *- ' ' ' '
| *\' ' ' '
| *- ' ' '
| ' *\ ' ' '
|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
| ' *-*\ ' ' '
| ' *\*-*\*-*\*-*\*-*\*-*\*-*\*-*\*-*\
| ' ' ' '
Low |_________________________________________________ ____________
Low High
Sheer Rate
A Shear at Piston Rings
B Shear at Main Bearings
C Shear at Cylinder Wall
D Shear at Connecting Rod Bearings
-+-+ Viscosity of a Straight Weight Oil (Petro. Or Synthetic)
*\*- Viscosity of A MultiGrade Oil (Base with VI polymers)
What this chart shows is that a straight oil has the same viscosity
regardless of shear rate. However, as the
shear rate increases, the shear breaks down the VI polymers, and multigrade
oils have less actual viscosity
at the localized high shear rate area.
The weak link is the rod bearings and Cam, in terms of rate of shear. There
is less friction at the piston
rings. Anti Wear is much more important at the cam.
Coasty
"Earle Horton" <Nurse-NOSPAM-Busters@msn.com> wrote in message
news:449a9b05$0$3478$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.co m...
> Unless you are operating your vehicle under severe operating conditions,
> you
> are flushing money down the toilet changing oil every 3,000 miles. Just
> make sure that the oil is hot when drained, so you don't get sludge.
>
> Earle
>
> "JEEPMAN" <JPMN55@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:21874-449A77AA-163@storefull-3133.bay.webtv.net...
>> I know this has been discussed here before, but I'm going to bring it
>> up again: Is it too late to switch over from dino oil to a synthetic
>> blend at 28K? The model year is 2002 and I've had the oil changed on or
>> about every 3K miles. Also, does the system have to be flushed? TIA
>>
>
>
06-24-2006, 05:51 AM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
If you want to really know follow the link and make up your own mind
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
Relics are names so because they are go with synthetic.
Coasty
"JEEPMAN" <JPMN55@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21874-449A77AA-163@storefull-3133.bay.webtv.net...
> I know this has been discussed here before, but I'm going to bring it
> up again: Is it too late to switch over from dino oil to a synthetic
> blend at 28K? The model year is 2002 and I've had the oil changed on or
> about every 3K miles. Also, does the system have to be flushed? TIA
>
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
Relics are names so because they are go with synthetic.
Coasty
"JEEPMAN" <JPMN55@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21874-449A77AA-163@storefull-3133.bay.webtv.net...
> I know this has been discussed here before, but I'm going to bring it
> up again: Is it too late to switch over from dino oil to a synthetic
> blend at 28K? The model year is 2002 and I've had the oil changed on or
> about every 3K miles. Also, does the system have to be flushed? TIA
>
06-24-2006, 05:51 AM
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
If you want to really know follow the link and make up your own mind
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
Relics are names so because they are go with synthetic.
Coasty
"JEEPMAN" <JPMN55@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21874-449A77AA-163@storefull-3133.bay.webtv.net...
> I know this has been discussed here before, but I'm going to bring it
> up again: Is it too late to switch over from dino oil to a synthetic
> blend at 28K? The model year is 2002 and I've had the oil changed on or
> about every 3K miles. Also, does the system have to be flushed? TIA
>
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
Relics are names so because they are go with synthetic.
Coasty
"JEEPMAN" <JPMN55@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21874-449A77AA-163@storefull-3133.bay.webtv.net...
> I know this has been discussed here before, but I'm going to bring it
> up again: Is it too late to switch over from dino oil to a synthetic
> blend at 28K? The model year is 2002 and I've had the oil changed on or
> about every 3K miles. Also, does the system have to be flushed? TIA
>
06-24-2006, 05:51 AM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
If you want to really know follow the link and make up your own mind
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
Relics are names so because they are go with synthetic.
Coasty
"JEEPMAN" <JPMN55@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21874-449A77AA-163@storefull-3133.bay.webtv.net...
> I know this has been discussed here before, but I'm going to bring it
> up again: Is it too late to switch over from dino oil to a synthetic
> blend at 28K? The model year is 2002 and I've had the oil changed on or
> about every 3K miles. Also, does the system have to be flushed? TIA
>
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
Relics are names so because they are go with synthetic.
Coasty
"JEEPMAN" <JPMN55@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21874-449A77AA-163@storefull-3133.bay.webtv.net...
> I know this has been discussed here before, but I'm going to bring it
> up again: Is it too late to switch over from dino oil to a synthetic
> blend at 28K? The model year is 2002 and I've had the oil changed on or
> about every 3K miles. Also, does the system have to be flushed? TIA
>
06-24-2006, 03:26 PM
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
There is no such thing as "too late to switch to synthetic". Unless you
want to give old wives tales (or old techonophobes tales in this case)
undue credit.
FWIW cars I've "swtiched":
88 YJ with 142k miles... now 168k three years later
92 cherokee 139k
95 GT Mustang 64k got to 100k before traded
97 Toyota Tacoma 216k now 264k
01 Cobra Mustang 5k now 29k
Of these I still have all but the GT (traded in for the cobra)
all got Mobil 1, and none have any problems that are remotely oil related.
Least of all leaks and degraded rubber seals that have been wrongly
attributed to modern synthetic oils.
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
want to give old wives tales (or old techonophobes tales in this case)
undue credit.
FWIW cars I've "swtiched":
88 YJ with 142k miles... now 168k three years later
92 cherokee 139k
95 GT Mustang 64k got to 100k before traded
97 Toyota Tacoma 216k now 264k
01 Cobra Mustang 5k now 29k
Of these I still have all but the GT (traded in for the cobra)
all got Mobil 1, and none have any problems that are remotely oil related.
Least of all leaks and degraded rubber seals that have been wrongly
attributed to modern synthetic oils.
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
06-24-2006, 03:26 PM
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
There is no such thing as "too late to switch to synthetic". Unless you
want to give old wives tales (or old techonophobes tales in this case)
undue credit.
FWIW cars I've "swtiched":
88 YJ with 142k miles... now 168k three years later
92 cherokee 139k
95 GT Mustang 64k got to 100k before traded
97 Toyota Tacoma 216k now 264k
01 Cobra Mustang 5k now 29k
Of these I still have all but the GT (traded in for the cobra)
all got Mobil 1, and none have any problems that are remotely oil related.
Least of all leaks and degraded rubber seals that have been wrongly
attributed to modern synthetic oils.
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
want to give old wives tales (or old techonophobes tales in this case)
undue credit.
FWIW cars I've "swtiched":
88 YJ with 142k miles... now 168k three years later
92 cherokee 139k
95 GT Mustang 64k got to 100k before traded
97 Toyota Tacoma 216k now 264k
01 Cobra Mustang 5k now 29k
Of these I still have all but the GT (traded in for the cobra)
all got Mobil 1, and none have any problems that are remotely oil related.
Least of all leaks and degraded rubber seals that have been wrongly
attributed to modern synthetic oils.
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
06-24-2006, 03:26 PM
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
There is no such thing as "too late to switch to synthetic". Unless you
want to give old wives tales (or old techonophobes tales in this case)
undue credit.
FWIW cars I've "swtiched":
88 YJ with 142k miles... now 168k three years later
92 cherokee 139k
95 GT Mustang 64k got to 100k before traded
97 Toyota Tacoma 216k now 264k
01 Cobra Mustang 5k now 29k
Of these I still have all but the GT (traded in for the cobra)
all got Mobil 1, and none have any problems that are remotely oil related.
Least of all leaks and degraded rubber seals that have been wrongly
attributed to modern synthetic oils.
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
want to give old wives tales (or old techonophobes tales in this case)
undue credit.
FWIW cars I've "swtiched":
88 YJ with 142k miles... now 168k three years later
92 cherokee 139k
95 GT Mustang 64k got to 100k before traded
97 Toyota Tacoma 216k now 264k
01 Cobra Mustang 5k now 29k
Of these I still have all but the GT (traded in for the cobra)
all got Mobil 1, and none have any problems that are remotely oil related.
Least of all leaks and degraded rubber seals that have been wrongly
attributed to modern synthetic oils.
--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
06-24-2006, 03:29 PM
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
At what interval do you change the oil?
"Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
message news:6dednVxC3NhWDADZnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@rcn.net...
> There is no such thing as "too late to switch to synthetic". Unless you
> want to give old wives tales (or old techonophobes tales in this case)
> undue credit.
>
> FWIW cars I've "swtiched":
>
> 88 YJ with 142k miles... now 168k three years later
> 92 cherokee 139k
> 95 GT Mustang 64k got to 100k before traded
> 97 Toyota Tacoma 216k now 264k
> 01 Cobra Mustang 5k now 29k
>
> Of these I still have all but the GT (traded in for the cobra)
> all got Mobil 1, and none have any problems that are remotely oil related.
>
> Least of all leaks and degraded rubber seals that have been wrongly
> attributed to modern synthetic oils.
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
"Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
message news:6dednVxC3NhWDADZnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@rcn.net...
> There is no such thing as "too late to switch to synthetic". Unless you
> want to give old wives tales (or old techonophobes tales in this case)
> undue credit.
>
> FWIW cars I've "swtiched":
>
> 88 YJ with 142k miles... now 168k three years later
> 92 cherokee 139k
> 95 GT Mustang 64k got to 100k before traded
> 97 Toyota Tacoma 216k now 264k
> 01 Cobra Mustang 5k now 29k
>
> Of these I still have all but the GT (traded in for the cobra)
> all got Mobil 1, and none have any problems that are remotely oil related.
>
> Least of all leaks and degraded rubber seals that have been wrongly
> attributed to modern synthetic oils.
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
06-24-2006, 03:29 PM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
At what interval do you change the oil?
"Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
message news:6dednVxC3NhWDADZnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@rcn.net...
> There is no such thing as "too late to switch to synthetic". Unless you
> want to give old wives tales (or old techonophobes tales in this case)
> undue credit.
>
> FWIW cars I've "swtiched":
>
> 88 YJ with 142k miles... now 168k three years later
> 92 cherokee 139k
> 95 GT Mustang 64k got to 100k before traded
> 97 Toyota Tacoma 216k now 264k
> 01 Cobra Mustang 5k now 29k
>
> Of these I still have all but the GT (traded in for the cobra)
> all got Mobil 1, and none have any problems that are remotely oil related.
>
> Least of all leaks and degraded rubber seals that have been wrongly
> attributed to modern synthetic oils.
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
"Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
message news:6dednVxC3NhWDADZnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@rcn.net...
> There is no such thing as "too late to switch to synthetic". Unless you
> want to give old wives tales (or old techonophobes tales in this case)
> undue credit.
>
> FWIW cars I've "swtiched":
>
> 88 YJ with 142k miles... now 168k three years later
> 92 cherokee 139k
> 95 GT Mustang 64k got to 100k before traded
> 97 Toyota Tacoma 216k now 264k
> 01 Cobra Mustang 5k now 29k
>
> Of these I still have all but the GT (traded in for the cobra)
> all got Mobil 1, and none have any problems that are remotely oil related.
>
> Least of all leaks and degraded rubber seals that have been wrongly
> attributed to modern synthetic oils.
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
06-24-2006, 03:29 PM
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
At what interval do you change the oil?
"Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
message news:6dednVxC3NhWDADZnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@rcn.net...
> There is no such thing as "too late to switch to synthetic". Unless you
> want to give old wives tales (or old techonophobes tales in this case)
> undue credit.
>
> FWIW cars I've "swtiched":
>
> 88 YJ with 142k miles... now 168k three years later
> 92 cherokee 139k
> 95 GT Mustang 64k got to 100k before traded
> 97 Toyota Tacoma 216k now 264k
> 01 Cobra Mustang 5k now 29k
>
> Of these I still have all but the GT (traded in for the cobra)
> all got Mobil 1, and none have any problems that are remotely oil related.
>
> Least of all leaks and degraded rubber seals that have been wrongly
> attributed to modern synthetic oils.
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
"Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
message news:6dednVxC3NhWDADZnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@rcn.net...
> There is no such thing as "too late to switch to synthetic". Unless you
> want to give old wives tales (or old techonophobes tales in this case)
> undue credit.
>
> FWIW cars I've "swtiched":
>
> 88 YJ with 142k miles... now 168k three years later
> 92 cherokee 139k
> 95 GT Mustang 64k got to 100k before traded
> 97 Toyota Tacoma 216k now 264k
> 01 Cobra Mustang 5k now 29k
>
> Of these I still have all but the GT (traded in for the cobra)
> all got Mobil 1, and none have any problems that are remotely oil related.
>
> Least of all leaks and degraded rubber seals that have been wrongly
> attributed to modern synthetic oils.
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein