Hi Robert,
And of course you operate trailer brakes, and probably a half ton
of camping gear in the back of your pick's up. I flat tow with a long
bed half ton, it's fun.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Robert Bills wrote:
>
> I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
> saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
> dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
>
> One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
> the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
> and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
> to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
> are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
> pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
> that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
> lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
>
> The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
> GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
> capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
> vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
> are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
> transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
> serious issue.
>
> I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
> tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
>
> The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
> pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
> as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
> wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
> all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
> a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
> hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
> weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
> only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
> the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
> a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
> be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com

 

Hi Robert,
And of course you operate trailer brakes, and probably a half ton
of camping gear in the back of your pick's up. I flat tow with a long
bed half ton, it's fun.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Robert Bills wrote:
>
> I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
> saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
> dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
>
> One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
> the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
> and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
> to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
> are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
> pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
> that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
> lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
>
> The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
> GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
> capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
> vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
> are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
> transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
> serious issue.
>
> I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
> tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
>
> The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
> pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
> as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
> wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
> all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
> a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
> hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
> weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
> only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
> the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
> a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
> be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com

 

Thanks for the follow-up. I'll check out the site.

Robert Bills wrote:

>>Robert,
>>Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
>>Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
>>tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
>
>
> I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
> saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
> dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
>
> One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
> the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
> and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
> to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
> are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
> pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
> that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
> lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
>
> The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
> GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
> capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
> vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
> are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
> transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
> serious issue.
>
> I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
> tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
>
> The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
> pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
> as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
> wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
> all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
> a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
> hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
> weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
> only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
> the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
> a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
> be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
>
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

 

Thanks for the follow-up. I'll check out the site.

Robert Bills wrote:

>>Robert,
>>Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
>>Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
>>tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
>
>
> I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
> saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
> dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
>
> One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
> the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
> and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
> to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
> are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
> pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
> that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
> lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
>
> The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
> GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
> capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
> vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
> are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
> transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
> serious issue.
>
> I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
> tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
>
> The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
> pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
> as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
> wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
> all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
> a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
> hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
> weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
> only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
> the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
> a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
> be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
>
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

 

Thanks for the follow-up. I'll check out the site.

Robert Bills wrote:

>>Robert,
>>Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
>>Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
>>tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
>
>
> I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
> saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
> dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
>
> One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
> the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
> and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
> to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
> are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
> pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
> that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
> lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
>
> The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
> GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
> capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
> vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
> are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
> transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
> serious issue.
>
> I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
> tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
>
> The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
> pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
> as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
> wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
> all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
> a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
> hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
> weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
> only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
> the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
> a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
> be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
>
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

 

Hi Jim,
Of course, you know if you're towing your boat with the 2500 and it
has less than the 5.7 engine and you will be at fault in an accident.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JimG wrote:
>
> While I agree that a 3/4 ton is the tow vehicle of choice, I just want to
> share some personal experience:
>
> With a Chevy 1500, I have successfully towed a 7000 lb, 27' boat (w/gear and
> fuel) around the hills of WV, and a CJ-7 (on a 16' lowboy) from here to
> Tellico, TN (about 10 hours) and felt very much in control.
>
> That said, my new tow vehicle, a Chevy 2500HD is definitely a cut above.
>
> --
> JimG
> 80' CJ-7, 258 CID
> 35" BFG MT's on 15x10 Centerlines
> 4.56 D30-D44 SOA
> D300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
> Warn 8000i w/dual batteries
> LockRight F&R

 

Hi Jim,
Of course, you know if you're towing your boat with the 2500 and it
has less than the 5.7 engine and you will be at fault in an accident.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JimG wrote:
>
> While I agree that a 3/4 ton is the tow vehicle of choice, I just want to
> share some personal experience:
>
> With a Chevy 1500, I have successfully towed a 7000 lb, 27' boat (w/gear and
> fuel) around the hills of WV, and a CJ-7 (on a 16' lowboy) from here to
> Tellico, TN (about 10 hours) and felt very much in control.
>
> That said, my new tow vehicle, a Chevy 2500HD is definitely a cut above.
>
> --
> JimG
> 80' CJ-7, 258 CID
> 35" BFG MT's on 15x10 Centerlines
> 4.56 D30-D44 SOA
> D300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
> Warn 8000i w/dual batteries
> LockRight F&R

 

Hi Jim,
Of course, you know if you're towing your boat with the 2500 and it
has less than the 5.7 engine and you will be at fault in an accident.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JimG wrote:
>
> While I agree that a 3/4 ton is the tow vehicle of choice, I just want to
> share some personal experience:
>
> With a Chevy 1500, I have successfully towed a 7000 lb, 27' boat (w/gear and
> fuel) around the hills of WV, and a CJ-7 (on a 16' lowboy) from here to
> Tellico, TN (about 10 hours) and felt very much in control.
>
> That said, my new tow vehicle, a Chevy 2500HD is definitely a cut above.
>
> --
> JimG
> 80' CJ-7, 258 CID
> 35" BFG MT's on 15x10 Centerlines
> 4.56 D30-D44 SOA
> D300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
> Warn 8000i w/dual batteries
> LockRight F&R

 

> I flat tow with a long
>bed half ton, it's fun.

Fun, as in riding a white-knuckler at Magic Mountain? ;-)

Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA

http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com

 

> I flat tow with a long
>bed half ton, it's fun.

Fun, as in riding a white-knuckler at Magic Mountain? ;-)

Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA

http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com