Towing with a Jeep
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Towing with a Jeep
Robert,
Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
Robert Bills wrote:
> My experience (coincidentally identical to the opinion of towing experts) is
> that the minimum capacity vehicle you need for the load you describe is a 3/4
> ton truck such as a Ford F250, Chevy Silverado 2500 or Dodge Ram 2500. A 1/2
> ton truck just won't do it, especially if you have to climb or descend any
> grades.
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
Robert Bills wrote:
> My experience (coincidentally identical to the opinion of towing experts) is
> that the minimum capacity vehicle you need for the load you describe is a 3/4
> ton truck such as a Ford F250, Chevy Silverado 2500 or Dodge Ram 2500. A 1/2
> ton truck just won't do it, especially if you have to climb or descend any
> grades.
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Towing with a Jeep
Robert,
Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
Robert Bills wrote:
> My experience (coincidentally identical to the opinion of towing experts) is
> that the minimum capacity vehicle you need for the load you describe is a 3/4
> ton truck such as a Ford F250, Chevy Silverado 2500 or Dodge Ram 2500. A 1/2
> ton truck just won't do it, especially if you have to climb or descend any
> grades.
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
Robert Bills wrote:
> My experience (coincidentally identical to the opinion of towing experts) is
> that the minimum capacity vehicle you need for the load you describe is a 3/4
> ton truck such as a Ford F250, Chevy Silverado 2500 or Dodge Ram 2500. A 1/2
> ton truck just won't do it, especially if you have to climb or descend any
> grades.
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Towing with a Jeep
Robert,
Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
Robert Bills wrote:
> My experience (coincidentally identical to the opinion of towing experts) is
> that the minimum capacity vehicle you need for the load you describe is a 3/4
> ton truck such as a Ford F250, Chevy Silverado 2500 or Dodge Ram 2500. A 1/2
> ton truck just won't do it, especially if you have to climb or descend any
> grades.
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
Robert Bills wrote:
> My experience (coincidentally identical to the opinion of towing experts) is
> that the minimum capacity vehicle you need for the load you describe is a 3/4
> ton truck such as a Ford F250, Chevy Silverado 2500 or Dodge Ram 2500. A 1/2
> ton truck just won't do it, especially if you have to climb or descend any
> grades.
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Towing with a Jeep
>Robert,
>Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
>Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
>tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
serious issue.
I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
>Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
>Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
>tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
serious issue.
I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Towing with a Jeep
>Robert,
>Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
>Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
>tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
serious issue.
I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
>Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
>Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
>tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
serious issue.
I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Towing with a Jeep
>Robert,
>Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
>Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
>tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
serious issue.
I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
>Where is this expert info? Ford and Nissan both rate their F150 and
>Titan at a towing capacity of 9500 lbs. Are you saying that you can't
>tow a 4000 lb. Jeep and a 1500 lb. trailer with one of these trucks safely?
I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
serious issue.
I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Towing with a Jeep
While I agree that a 3/4 ton is the tow vehicle of choice, I just want to
share some personal experience:
With a Chevy 1500, I have successfully towed a 7000 lb, 27' boat (w/gear and
fuel) around the hills of WV, and a CJ-7 (on a 16' lowboy) from here to
Tellico, TN (about 10 hours) and felt very much in control.
That said, my new tow vehicle, a Chevy 2500HD is definitely a cut above.
--
JimG
80' CJ-7, 258 CID
35" BFG MT's on 15x10 Centerlines
4.56 D30-D44 SOA
D300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
Warn 8000i w/dual batteries
LockRight F&R
"Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:20040217105938.19387.00001900@mb-m26.aol.com...
> >I am considering towing another vehicle
> >(on a trailer with all four wheels off the ground) with my '93 Jeep
> >Wrangler (6 cyl. 4.0 liter, manual transmission). The weight of the
> >vehicle I want to tow is about 3500 lbs. Is this possible? Would it be
> >safe? I need to tow it about 300 miles.
>
> A 16' car carrier trailer typically weighs 1,600-1,900 pounds, depending
on
> manufacturer and design. The weight of your towed vehicle/trailer
combination
> (5,100 - 5,400) will exceed the weight of your TJ, and the wheelbase of
your TJ
> is too short to tow such a load. IT IS NOT SAFE. DON'T DO IT!!! Not
even for
> 10 miles.
>
> >I also might have access to a 2002 Grand Cherokee (6 cyl., auto trans).
> >Would this be better to use?
>
> A 6 cylinder Grand Cherokee is no better. While the manufacturer's tow
rating
> might be 5,000 pounds, that is with only the driver, no passengers, no
gear and
> almost no gasoline in the tank. Every pound you add in cargo/passengers
inside
> the GC must be deducted from its tow capacity. Also, that tow rating is
with a
> weight distributing hitch, which you will not have on a car carrier
trailer.
> The tow rating for a bumper pull hitch is less, about 3,500 pounds (less
the
> weight of people and gear inside the GC). Thus you will still be
significantly
> overweight. IT IS UNSAFE. DO NOT DO IT!
>
> This isn't just book learning. I have been towing jeeps for years, both
flat
> towing and on trailers. I almost killed myself (and a family of innocent
> people in the next lane) in the mid-1970's trying to tow my CJ-5 with an
> undersized vehicle from one town to the next. I was young, and thought I
could
> get away with a 25 mile tow if I kept my speeds down. I was wrong.
>
> My experience (coincidentally identical to the opinion of towing experts)
is
> that the minimum capacity vehicle you need for the load you describe is a
3/4
> ton truck such as a Ford F250, Chevy Silverado 2500 or Dodge Ram 2500. A
1/2
> ton truck just won't do it, especially if you have to climb or descend any
> grades.
>
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com
share some personal experience:
With a Chevy 1500, I have successfully towed a 7000 lb, 27' boat (w/gear and
fuel) around the hills of WV, and a CJ-7 (on a 16' lowboy) from here to
Tellico, TN (about 10 hours) and felt very much in control.
That said, my new tow vehicle, a Chevy 2500HD is definitely a cut above.
--
JimG
80' CJ-7, 258 CID
35" BFG MT's on 15x10 Centerlines
4.56 D30-D44 SOA
D300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
Warn 8000i w/dual batteries
LockRight F&R
"Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:20040217105938.19387.00001900@mb-m26.aol.com...
> >I am considering towing another vehicle
> >(on a trailer with all four wheels off the ground) with my '93 Jeep
> >Wrangler (6 cyl. 4.0 liter, manual transmission). The weight of the
> >vehicle I want to tow is about 3500 lbs. Is this possible? Would it be
> >safe? I need to tow it about 300 miles.
>
> A 16' car carrier trailer typically weighs 1,600-1,900 pounds, depending
on
> manufacturer and design. The weight of your towed vehicle/trailer
combination
> (5,100 - 5,400) will exceed the weight of your TJ, and the wheelbase of
your TJ
> is too short to tow such a load. IT IS NOT SAFE. DON'T DO IT!!! Not
even for
> 10 miles.
>
> >I also might have access to a 2002 Grand Cherokee (6 cyl., auto trans).
> >Would this be better to use?
>
> A 6 cylinder Grand Cherokee is no better. While the manufacturer's tow
rating
> might be 5,000 pounds, that is with only the driver, no passengers, no
gear and
> almost no gasoline in the tank. Every pound you add in cargo/passengers
inside
> the GC must be deducted from its tow capacity. Also, that tow rating is
with a
> weight distributing hitch, which you will not have on a car carrier
trailer.
> The tow rating for a bumper pull hitch is less, about 3,500 pounds (less
the
> weight of people and gear inside the GC). Thus you will still be
significantly
> overweight. IT IS UNSAFE. DO NOT DO IT!
>
> This isn't just book learning. I have been towing jeeps for years, both
flat
> towing and on trailers. I almost killed myself (and a family of innocent
> people in the next lane) in the mid-1970's trying to tow my CJ-5 with an
> undersized vehicle from one town to the next. I was young, and thought I
could
> get away with a 25 mile tow if I kept my speeds down. I was wrong.
>
> My experience (coincidentally identical to the opinion of towing experts)
is
> that the minimum capacity vehicle you need for the load you describe is a
3/4
> ton truck such as a Ford F250, Chevy Silverado 2500 or Dodge Ram 2500. A
1/2
> ton truck just won't do it, especially if you have to climb or descend any
> grades.
>
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Towing with a Jeep
While I agree that a 3/4 ton is the tow vehicle of choice, I just want to
share some personal experience:
With a Chevy 1500, I have successfully towed a 7000 lb, 27' boat (w/gear and
fuel) around the hills of WV, and a CJ-7 (on a 16' lowboy) from here to
Tellico, TN (about 10 hours) and felt very much in control.
That said, my new tow vehicle, a Chevy 2500HD is definitely a cut above.
--
JimG
80' CJ-7, 258 CID
35" BFG MT's on 15x10 Centerlines
4.56 D30-D44 SOA
D300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
Warn 8000i w/dual batteries
LockRight F&R
"Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:20040217105938.19387.00001900@mb-m26.aol.com...
> >I am considering towing another vehicle
> >(on a trailer with all four wheels off the ground) with my '93 Jeep
> >Wrangler (6 cyl. 4.0 liter, manual transmission). The weight of the
> >vehicle I want to tow is about 3500 lbs. Is this possible? Would it be
> >safe? I need to tow it about 300 miles.
>
> A 16' car carrier trailer typically weighs 1,600-1,900 pounds, depending
on
> manufacturer and design. The weight of your towed vehicle/trailer
combination
> (5,100 - 5,400) will exceed the weight of your TJ, and the wheelbase of
your TJ
> is too short to tow such a load. IT IS NOT SAFE. DON'T DO IT!!! Not
even for
> 10 miles.
>
> >I also might have access to a 2002 Grand Cherokee (6 cyl., auto trans).
> >Would this be better to use?
>
> A 6 cylinder Grand Cherokee is no better. While the manufacturer's tow
rating
> might be 5,000 pounds, that is with only the driver, no passengers, no
gear and
> almost no gasoline in the tank. Every pound you add in cargo/passengers
inside
> the GC must be deducted from its tow capacity. Also, that tow rating is
with a
> weight distributing hitch, which you will not have on a car carrier
trailer.
> The tow rating for a bumper pull hitch is less, about 3,500 pounds (less
the
> weight of people and gear inside the GC). Thus you will still be
significantly
> overweight. IT IS UNSAFE. DO NOT DO IT!
>
> This isn't just book learning. I have been towing jeeps for years, both
flat
> towing and on trailers. I almost killed myself (and a family of innocent
> people in the next lane) in the mid-1970's trying to tow my CJ-5 with an
> undersized vehicle from one town to the next. I was young, and thought I
could
> get away with a 25 mile tow if I kept my speeds down. I was wrong.
>
> My experience (coincidentally identical to the opinion of towing experts)
is
> that the minimum capacity vehicle you need for the load you describe is a
3/4
> ton truck such as a Ford F250, Chevy Silverado 2500 or Dodge Ram 2500. A
1/2
> ton truck just won't do it, especially if you have to climb or descend any
> grades.
>
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com
share some personal experience:
With a Chevy 1500, I have successfully towed a 7000 lb, 27' boat (w/gear and
fuel) around the hills of WV, and a CJ-7 (on a 16' lowboy) from here to
Tellico, TN (about 10 hours) and felt very much in control.
That said, my new tow vehicle, a Chevy 2500HD is definitely a cut above.
--
JimG
80' CJ-7, 258 CID
35" BFG MT's on 15x10 Centerlines
4.56 D30-D44 SOA
D300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
Warn 8000i w/dual batteries
LockRight F&R
"Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:20040217105938.19387.00001900@mb-m26.aol.com...
> >I am considering towing another vehicle
> >(on a trailer with all four wheels off the ground) with my '93 Jeep
> >Wrangler (6 cyl. 4.0 liter, manual transmission). The weight of the
> >vehicle I want to tow is about 3500 lbs. Is this possible? Would it be
> >safe? I need to tow it about 300 miles.
>
> A 16' car carrier trailer typically weighs 1,600-1,900 pounds, depending
on
> manufacturer and design. The weight of your towed vehicle/trailer
combination
> (5,100 - 5,400) will exceed the weight of your TJ, and the wheelbase of
your TJ
> is too short to tow such a load. IT IS NOT SAFE. DON'T DO IT!!! Not
even for
> 10 miles.
>
> >I also might have access to a 2002 Grand Cherokee (6 cyl., auto trans).
> >Would this be better to use?
>
> A 6 cylinder Grand Cherokee is no better. While the manufacturer's tow
rating
> might be 5,000 pounds, that is with only the driver, no passengers, no
gear and
> almost no gasoline in the tank. Every pound you add in cargo/passengers
inside
> the GC must be deducted from its tow capacity. Also, that tow rating is
with a
> weight distributing hitch, which you will not have on a car carrier
trailer.
> The tow rating for a bumper pull hitch is less, about 3,500 pounds (less
the
> weight of people and gear inside the GC). Thus you will still be
significantly
> overweight. IT IS UNSAFE. DO NOT DO IT!
>
> This isn't just book learning. I have been towing jeeps for years, both
flat
> towing and on trailers. I almost killed myself (and a family of innocent
> people in the next lane) in the mid-1970's trying to tow my CJ-5 with an
> undersized vehicle from one town to the next. I was young, and thought I
could
> get away with a 25 mile tow if I kept my speeds down. I was wrong.
>
> My experience (coincidentally identical to the opinion of towing experts)
is
> that the minimum capacity vehicle you need for the load you describe is a
3/4
> ton truck such as a Ford F250, Chevy Silverado 2500 or Dodge Ram 2500. A
1/2
> ton truck just won't do it, especially if you have to climb or descend any
> grades.
>
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Towing with a Jeep
While I agree that a 3/4 ton is the tow vehicle of choice, I just want to
share some personal experience:
With a Chevy 1500, I have successfully towed a 7000 lb, 27' boat (w/gear and
fuel) around the hills of WV, and a CJ-7 (on a 16' lowboy) from here to
Tellico, TN (about 10 hours) and felt very much in control.
That said, my new tow vehicle, a Chevy 2500HD is definitely a cut above.
--
JimG
80' CJ-7, 258 CID
35" BFG MT's on 15x10 Centerlines
4.56 D30-D44 SOA
D300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
Warn 8000i w/dual batteries
LockRight F&R
"Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:20040217105938.19387.00001900@mb-m26.aol.com...
> >I am considering towing another vehicle
> >(on a trailer with all four wheels off the ground) with my '93 Jeep
> >Wrangler (6 cyl. 4.0 liter, manual transmission). The weight of the
> >vehicle I want to tow is about 3500 lbs. Is this possible? Would it be
> >safe? I need to tow it about 300 miles.
>
> A 16' car carrier trailer typically weighs 1,600-1,900 pounds, depending
on
> manufacturer and design. The weight of your towed vehicle/trailer
combination
> (5,100 - 5,400) will exceed the weight of your TJ, and the wheelbase of
your TJ
> is too short to tow such a load. IT IS NOT SAFE. DON'T DO IT!!! Not
even for
> 10 miles.
>
> >I also might have access to a 2002 Grand Cherokee (6 cyl., auto trans).
> >Would this be better to use?
>
> A 6 cylinder Grand Cherokee is no better. While the manufacturer's tow
rating
> might be 5,000 pounds, that is with only the driver, no passengers, no
gear and
> almost no gasoline in the tank. Every pound you add in cargo/passengers
inside
> the GC must be deducted from its tow capacity. Also, that tow rating is
with a
> weight distributing hitch, which you will not have on a car carrier
trailer.
> The tow rating for a bumper pull hitch is less, about 3,500 pounds (less
the
> weight of people and gear inside the GC). Thus you will still be
significantly
> overweight. IT IS UNSAFE. DO NOT DO IT!
>
> This isn't just book learning. I have been towing jeeps for years, both
flat
> towing and on trailers. I almost killed myself (and a family of innocent
> people in the next lane) in the mid-1970's trying to tow my CJ-5 with an
> undersized vehicle from one town to the next. I was young, and thought I
could
> get away with a 25 mile tow if I kept my speeds down. I was wrong.
>
> My experience (coincidentally identical to the opinion of towing experts)
is
> that the minimum capacity vehicle you need for the load you describe is a
3/4
> ton truck such as a Ford F250, Chevy Silverado 2500 or Dodge Ram 2500. A
1/2
> ton truck just won't do it, especially if you have to climb or descend any
> grades.
>
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com
share some personal experience:
With a Chevy 1500, I have successfully towed a 7000 lb, 27' boat (w/gear and
fuel) around the hills of WV, and a CJ-7 (on a 16' lowboy) from here to
Tellico, TN (about 10 hours) and felt very much in control.
That said, my new tow vehicle, a Chevy 2500HD is definitely a cut above.
--
JimG
80' CJ-7, 258 CID
35" BFG MT's on 15x10 Centerlines
4.56 D30-D44 SOA
D300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
Warn 8000i w/dual batteries
LockRight F&R
"Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:20040217105938.19387.00001900@mb-m26.aol.com...
> >I am considering towing another vehicle
> >(on a trailer with all four wheels off the ground) with my '93 Jeep
> >Wrangler (6 cyl. 4.0 liter, manual transmission). The weight of the
> >vehicle I want to tow is about 3500 lbs. Is this possible? Would it be
> >safe? I need to tow it about 300 miles.
>
> A 16' car carrier trailer typically weighs 1,600-1,900 pounds, depending
on
> manufacturer and design. The weight of your towed vehicle/trailer
combination
> (5,100 - 5,400) will exceed the weight of your TJ, and the wheelbase of
your TJ
> is too short to tow such a load. IT IS NOT SAFE. DON'T DO IT!!! Not
even for
> 10 miles.
>
> >I also might have access to a 2002 Grand Cherokee (6 cyl., auto trans).
> >Would this be better to use?
>
> A 6 cylinder Grand Cherokee is no better. While the manufacturer's tow
rating
> might be 5,000 pounds, that is with only the driver, no passengers, no
gear and
> almost no gasoline in the tank. Every pound you add in cargo/passengers
inside
> the GC must be deducted from its tow capacity. Also, that tow rating is
with a
> weight distributing hitch, which you will not have on a car carrier
trailer.
> The tow rating for a bumper pull hitch is less, about 3,500 pounds (less
the
> weight of people and gear inside the GC). Thus you will still be
significantly
> overweight. IT IS UNSAFE. DO NOT DO IT!
>
> This isn't just book learning. I have been towing jeeps for years, both
flat
> towing and on trailers. I almost killed myself (and a family of innocent
> people in the next lane) in the mid-1970's trying to tow my CJ-5 with an
> undersized vehicle from one town to the next. I was young, and thought I
could
> get away with a 25 mile tow if I kept my speeds down. I was wrong.
>
> My experience (coincidentally identical to the opinion of towing experts)
is
> that the minimum capacity vehicle you need for the load you describe is a
3/4
> ton truck such as a Ford F250, Chevy Silverado 2500 or Dodge Ram 2500. A
1/2
> ton truck just won't do it, especially if you have to climb or descend any
> grades.
>
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Towing with a Jeep
Hi Robert,
And of course you operate trailer brakes, and probably a half ton
of camping gear in the back of your pick's up. I flat tow with a long
bed half ton, it's fun.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Robert Bills wrote:
>
> I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
> saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
> dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
>
> One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
> the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
> and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
> to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
> are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
> pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
> that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
> lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
>
> The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
> GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
> capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
> vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
> are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
> transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
> serious issue.
>
> I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
> tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
>
> The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
> pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
> as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
> wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
> all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
> a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
> hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
> weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
> only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
> the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
> a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
> be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com
And of course you operate trailer brakes, and probably a half ton
of camping gear in the back of your pick's up. I flat tow with a long
bed half ton, it's fun.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Robert Bills wrote:
>
> I am saying that towing with a 1/2 ton truck is marginal at best. And I'm
> saying that towing a vehicle on a car carrier trailer behind a GC is outright
> dangerous. Towing that load behind a TJ is asking to be dead by sundown.
>
> One easily accessable source is for information is www.thedieselstop.com, in
> the towing and hauling forum. There have been many threads on this subject,
> and two posters with reliable information (and third party sources and links
> to back it up) are Smokey Wren and a guy with the screen name Crewzer. There
> are also a number of RV and trailer forums which discuss at length the
> pros/cons of towing any significant weight with a 1/2 ton truck - conclusion is
> that 1/2 ton trucks are a compromise, marginal at best for loads over 5,000
> lbs, including the F150 up to the '03 model year and the Titan.
>
> The manufacturer's published tow ratings don't explain the relationship between
> GVWR, GCVWR, axle weight capacity, tire capacity, tongue weight, braking
> capacity, etc. The manufacturer's maximum load ratings are for stripped down
> vehicles with no passengers, gear, full load of gas, etc. - real world ratings
> are limited to the weakest link of the chain. In many 1/2 ton trucks the
> transmission is not up to the stress of a heavy load. Braking is also a
> serious issue.
>
> I would not want to tow a load that is at or near the maximum capacity of my
> tow rig. The lives of my family and those around me aren't worth the risk.
>
> The Ford F150 ratings have been increased for the '04 model year by over 2,000
> pounds compared to prior years. I have been researching the '04 F150 crewcab
> as a replacement for my '87 F250 standard cab diesel (they have the same
> wheelbase). I don't have the underlying numbers handy, but after calculating
> all of the weight and capacity factors, its effective maximum tow capacity with
> a bumper pull hitch is only 5,500 pounds, 7,500 with a weight distributing
> hitch. Since my jeep loaded with gas and gear on a car carrier trailer will
> weigh approx. 6,000-6,500 pounds, it appears that an '04 F150 might work, but
> only with a weight distributing hitch. However, it is not the best tool for
> the job. (If I had the $$$$ and space to park it, I would not hesitate to buy
> a 3/4 ton diesel crew cab short bed, and if I do go with the '04 F150 it will
> be a compromise vehicle that will not see many towing miles.)
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com