tow vehicle suggestions
09-30-2003, 09:54 AM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tow vehicle suggestions
Josh,
I truly anticipate your every post...
Joe
"Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:b102b6e4.0309300534.23c9f17f@posting.google.c om...
> Actually, if you look back at this message thread, someone has posted
> that per DC specs, the only thing keeping a Cherokee from towing 5000
> lbs (the ballpark figure I threw out) is a manual transmission. I
> understand there is some residual hostility toward me for the big
> Joshua vs. Cal Wheeler fight, but it appears I'm not in the wrong
> here.
>
> I also stand by the statement that how much you can tow will vary with
> numerous towing conditions, and it's ridiculous to expect the same
> equipment to perform identically on a low-speed tow in florida and a
> freeway speed tow in Colorado. That's just common sense.
>
> (Side note: I too don't understand why a manual transmission Cherokee
> would be an impairment vs. an automatic. If I recall correctly, the
> last time I looked at the TJ manual, the 2.5L TJs are actually the
> OPPOSITE: The manual transmission can tow 2000 pounds, the automatic
> only 1000. Weird.)
>
>
> rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx (Robert Bills) wrote in message
news:<20030929184935.27697.00000017@mb-m04.aol.com>...
> > Joshua Nelson wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >Take manufacturer recommendations with a grain of salt <snip>
> > >If the vehicle can safely tow 6,000 lbs, they probably divide by 3 and
put
> > "don't
> > >tow more than 2,000 lbs" in the manual to cover their butts. <snip> If
you're
> > towing on
> > >flat ground and have an 8-cylinder engine
> > >and heavy duty transmission, and keep it under 55mph, there is no
reason a
> > >cherokee can't tow 5,000 pounds or possibly much more.
> >
> > Joshua,
> >
> > Your un-informed "advice" is going to get someone killed. There is a
lot more
> > to towing than weight ratings. A Cherokee is too light AND has too
short a
> > wheelbase to safely tow a jeep.
> >
> > You shouldn't give advice unless you know what you're talking about.
> >
> >
> > Robert Bills
> > KG6LMV
> > Orange County CA
> >
> > http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> > http://www.RobertBills.com
I truly anticipate your every post...
Joe
"Joshua Nelson" <spam_box@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:b102b6e4.0309300534.23c9f17f@posting.google.c om...
> Actually, if you look back at this message thread, someone has posted
> that per DC specs, the only thing keeping a Cherokee from towing 5000
> lbs (the ballpark figure I threw out) is a manual transmission. I
> understand there is some residual hostility toward me for the big
> Joshua vs. Cal Wheeler fight, but it appears I'm not in the wrong
> here.
>
> I also stand by the statement that how much you can tow will vary with
> numerous towing conditions, and it's ridiculous to expect the same
> equipment to perform identically on a low-speed tow in florida and a
> freeway speed tow in Colorado. That's just common sense.
>
> (Side note: I too don't understand why a manual transmission Cherokee
> would be an impairment vs. an automatic. If I recall correctly, the
> last time I looked at the TJ manual, the 2.5L TJs are actually the
> OPPOSITE: The manual transmission can tow 2000 pounds, the automatic
> only 1000. Weird.)
>
>
> rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx (Robert Bills) wrote in message
news:<20030929184935.27697.00000017@mb-m04.aol.com>...
> > Joshua Nelson wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >Take manufacturer recommendations with a grain of salt <snip>
> > >If the vehicle can safely tow 6,000 lbs, they probably divide by 3 and
put
> > "don't
> > >tow more than 2,000 lbs" in the manual to cover their butts. <snip> If
you're
> > towing on
> > >flat ground and have an 8-cylinder engine
> > >and heavy duty transmission, and keep it under 55mph, there is no
reason a
> > >cherokee can't tow 5,000 pounds or possibly much more.
> >
> > Joshua,
> >
> > Your un-informed "advice" is going to get someone killed. There is a
lot more
> > to towing than weight ratings. A Cherokee is too light AND has too
short a
> > wheelbase to safely tow a jeep.
> >
> > You shouldn't give advice unless you know what you're talking about.
> >
> >
> > Robert Bills
> > KG6LMV
> > Orange County CA
> >
> > http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> > http://www.RobertBills.com
09-30-2003, 10:15 AM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tow vehicle suggestions
Joshua wrote:
>it appears I'm not in the wrong
>here.
[referring to his previous bad advice to]
>Take manufacturer recommendations with a grain of salt <snip>
>> >If the vehicle can safely tow 6,000 lbs, they probably divide by 3 and put
>> "don't
>> >tow more than 2,000 lbs" in the manual to cover their butts.
Joshua, you are wrong. There is a lot more to towing than hitch weight
ratings. (i.e., tow vehicle engine, tranny, cooling, suspension, brakes, tow
vehicle weight, wheelbase, etc., and towed rig weight, braking, number of
axles, load distribution, etc.) If you were a grown man with real world
experience instead of a 16-year-old cyber-wheeler in front of a keyboard, you
would know this.
If I were you, I would stop offering opinions about things you know nothing
about.
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
>it appears I'm not in the wrong
>here.
[referring to his previous bad advice to]
>Take manufacturer recommendations with a grain of salt <snip>
>> >If the vehicle can safely tow 6,000 lbs, they probably divide by 3 and put
>> "don't
>> >tow more than 2,000 lbs" in the manual to cover their butts.
Joshua, you are wrong. There is a lot more to towing than hitch weight
ratings. (i.e., tow vehicle engine, tranny, cooling, suspension, brakes, tow
vehicle weight, wheelbase, etc., and towed rig weight, braking, number of
axles, load distribution, etc.) If you were a grown man with real world
experience instead of a 16-year-old cyber-wheeler in front of a keyboard, you
would know this.
If I were you, I would stop offering opinions about things you know nothing
about.
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
09-30-2003, 10:15 AM
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tow vehicle suggestions
Joshua wrote:
>it appears I'm not in the wrong
>here.
[referring to his previous bad advice to]
>Take manufacturer recommendations with a grain of salt <snip>
>> >If the vehicle can safely tow 6,000 lbs, they probably divide by 3 and put
>> "don't
>> >tow more than 2,000 lbs" in the manual to cover their butts.
Joshua, you are wrong. There is a lot more to towing than hitch weight
ratings. (i.e., tow vehicle engine, tranny, cooling, suspension, brakes, tow
vehicle weight, wheelbase, etc., and towed rig weight, braking, number of
axles, load distribution, etc.) If you were a grown man with real world
experience instead of a 16-year-old cyber-wheeler in front of a keyboard, you
would know this.
If I were you, I would stop offering opinions about things you know nothing
about.
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
>it appears I'm not in the wrong
>here.
[referring to his previous bad advice to]
>Take manufacturer recommendations with a grain of salt <snip>
>> >If the vehicle can safely tow 6,000 lbs, they probably divide by 3 and put
>> "don't
>> >tow more than 2,000 lbs" in the manual to cover their butts.
Joshua, you are wrong. There is a lot more to towing than hitch weight
ratings. (i.e., tow vehicle engine, tranny, cooling, suspension, brakes, tow
vehicle weight, wheelbase, etc., and towed rig weight, braking, number of
axles, load distribution, etc.) If you were a grown man with real world
experience instead of a 16-year-old cyber-wheeler in front of a keyboard, you
would know this.
If I were you, I would stop offering opinions about things you know nothing
about.
Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com
09-30-2003, 10:45 AM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tow vehicle suggestions
In article <b102b6e4.0309300534.23c9f17f@posting.google.com >, spam_box@ev1.net
(Joshua Nelson) writes:
> I
>understand there is some residual hostility toward me for the big
>Joshua vs. Cal Wheeler fight,
Nope, the hostility is the result of your ingnorant advice.
but it appears I'm not in the wrong
>here.
>
It only *appears* that way.
>I also stand by the statement that how much you can tow will vary with
>numerous towing conditions,
Stand by the statement you made, not the one you think you made:
In article <b102b6e4.0309291324.2423944f@posting.google.com >, spam_box@ev1.net
(Joshua Nelson) writes:
>Take manufacturer recommendations with a grain of salt. Remember they
>are writing that owner's manual with a battalion of liability lawyers
>looking over their shoulders. If the vehicle can safely tow 6,000
>lbs, they probably divide by 3 and put "don't tow more than 2,000 lbs"
>in the manual to cover their butts.
If a vehicle can *safely* tow 6,000 pounds, that will be reflected in in GCWR.
What part of this do you not understand?
and it's ridiculous to expect the same
>equipment to perform identically on a low-speed tow in florida and a
>freeway speed tow in Colorado. That's just common sense.
it's also ridiculous to expect that you can legally and safely exceed the
recommendation put in place by a manufacturer based on what *you* think is safe
and legal. No one's arguing with you that the dynamics of a low-speed tow in Fl
are different that freeway speed in CO. Where you are wrong is your assertion
that it is OK to tow beyond the factory recommendations, from a safety or legal
point of view.
Would you tow a 6,000 pound trailer with a Cherokee with your 3-year-old
daughter in the back seat? Would you risk her safety?
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
(Joshua Nelson) writes:
> I
>understand there is some residual hostility toward me for the big
>Joshua vs. Cal Wheeler fight,
Nope, the hostility is the result of your ingnorant advice.
but it appears I'm not in the wrong
>here.
>
It only *appears* that way.
>I also stand by the statement that how much you can tow will vary with
>numerous towing conditions,
Stand by the statement you made, not the one you think you made:
In article <b102b6e4.0309291324.2423944f@posting.google.com >, spam_box@ev1.net
(Joshua Nelson) writes:
>Take manufacturer recommendations with a grain of salt. Remember they
>are writing that owner's manual with a battalion of liability lawyers
>looking over their shoulders. If the vehicle can safely tow 6,000
>lbs, they probably divide by 3 and put "don't tow more than 2,000 lbs"
>in the manual to cover their butts.
If a vehicle can *safely* tow 6,000 pounds, that will be reflected in in GCWR.
What part of this do you not understand?
and it's ridiculous to expect the same
>equipment to perform identically on a low-speed tow in florida and a
>freeway speed tow in Colorado. That's just common sense.
it's also ridiculous to expect that you can legally and safely exceed the
recommendation put in place by a manufacturer based on what *you* think is safe
and legal. No one's arguing with you that the dynamics of a low-speed tow in Fl
are different that freeway speed in CO. Where you are wrong is your assertion
that it is OK to tow beyond the factory recommendations, from a safety or legal
point of view.
Would you tow a 6,000 pound trailer with a Cherokee with your 3-year-old
daughter in the back seat? Would you risk her safety?
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
09-30-2003, 10:45 AM
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tow vehicle suggestions
In article <b102b6e4.0309300534.23c9f17f@posting.google.com >, spam_box@ev1.net
(Joshua Nelson) writes:
> I
>understand there is some residual hostility toward me for the big
>Joshua vs. Cal Wheeler fight,
Nope, the hostility is the result of your ingnorant advice.
but it appears I'm not in the wrong
>here.
>
It only *appears* that way.
>I also stand by the statement that how much you can tow will vary with
>numerous towing conditions,
Stand by the statement you made, not the one you think you made:
In article <b102b6e4.0309291324.2423944f@posting.google.com >, spam_box@ev1.net
(Joshua Nelson) writes:
>Take manufacturer recommendations with a grain of salt. Remember they
>are writing that owner's manual with a battalion of liability lawyers
>looking over their shoulders. If the vehicle can safely tow 6,000
>lbs, they probably divide by 3 and put "don't tow more than 2,000 lbs"
>in the manual to cover their butts.
If a vehicle can *safely* tow 6,000 pounds, that will be reflected in in GCWR.
What part of this do you not understand?
and it's ridiculous to expect the same
>equipment to perform identically on a low-speed tow in florida and a
>freeway speed tow in Colorado. That's just common sense.
it's also ridiculous to expect that you can legally and safely exceed the
recommendation put in place by a manufacturer based on what *you* think is safe
and legal. No one's arguing with you that the dynamics of a low-speed tow in Fl
are different that freeway speed in CO. Where you are wrong is your assertion
that it is OK to tow beyond the factory recommendations, from a safety or legal
point of view.
Would you tow a 6,000 pound trailer with a Cherokee with your 3-year-old
daughter in the back seat? Would you risk her safety?
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
(Joshua Nelson) writes:
> I
>understand there is some residual hostility toward me for the big
>Joshua vs. Cal Wheeler fight,
Nope, the hostility is the result of your ingnorant advice.
but it appears I'm not in the wrong
>here.
>
It only *appears* that way.
>I also stand by the statement that how much you can tow will vary with
>numerous towing conditions,
Stand by the statement you made, not the one you think you made:
In article <b102b6e4.0309291324.2423944f@posting.google.com >, spam_box@ev1.net
(Joshua Nelson) writes:
>Take manufacturer recommendations with a grain of salt. Remember they
>are writing that owner's manual with a battalion of liability lawyers
>looking over their shoulders. If the vehicle can safely tow 6,000
>lbs, they probably divide by 3 and put "don't tow more than 2,000 lbs"
>in the manual to cover their butts.
If a vehicle can *safely* tow 6,000 pounds, that will be reflected in in GCWR.
What part of this do you not understand?
and it's ridiculous to expect the same
>equipment to perform identically on a low-speed tow in florida and a
>freeway speed tow in Colorado. That's just common sense.
it's also ridiculous to expect that you can legally and safely exceed the
recommendation put in place by a manufacturer based on what *you* think is safe
and legal. No one's arguing with you that the dynamics of a low-speed tow in Fl
are different that freeway speed in CO. Where you are wrong is your assertion
that it is OK to tow beyond the factory recommendations, from a safety or legal
point of view.
Would you tow a 6,000 pound trailer with a Cherokee with your 3-year-old
daughter in the back seat? Would you risk her safety?
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
09-30-2003, 10:45 AM
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tow vehicle suggestions
In article <20030930101548.18868.00000022@mb-m15.aol.com>,
rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx (Robert Bills) writes:
>instead of a 16-year-old cyber-wheeler in front of a keyboard, you
>would know this
An *alleged* 16-year old...
;-)
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx (Robert Bills) writes:
>instead of a 16-year-old cyber-wheeler in front of a keyboard, you
>would know this
An *alleged* 16-year old...
;-)
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
09-30-2003, 10:45 AM
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tow vehicle suggestions
In article <20030930101548.18868.00000022@mb-m15.aol.com>,
rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx (Robert Bills) writes:
>instead of a 16-year-old cyber-wheeler in front of a keyboard, you
>would know this
An *alleged* 16-year old...
;-)
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx (Robert Bills) writes:
>instead of a 16-year-old cyber-wheeler in front of a keyboard, you
>would know this
An *alleged* 16-year old...
;-)
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
09-30-2003, 01:25 PM
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tow vehicle suggestions
I knew everything at sixteen.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> An *alleged* 16-year old...
>
> ;-)
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> An *alleged* 16-year old...
>
> ;-)
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
09-30-2003, 01:25 PM
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tow vehicle suggestions
I knew everything at sixteen.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> An *alleged* 16-year old...
>
> ;-)
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> An *alleged* 16-year old...
>
> ;-)
> * * *
> Matt Macchiarolo
> www.townpeddler.com
> www.wolverine4wd.org
> http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
09-30-2003, 02:02 PM
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: tow vehicle suggestions
In article <3F79BC7D.53D5DB23@***.net>, L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) ------
III <----------@***.net> writes:
>I knew everything at sixteen.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
What's changed?
:-)
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
III <----------@***.net> writes:
>I knew everything at sixteen.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
What's changed?
:-)
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html