SnoMan

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 04:38:08 GMT, Doug Gavilanes
<gavilan1@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Yes, cat converter replaced 2 years ago to pass smog. I've got plenty
>of air going in, and a relatively new cat and Flowmaster.

A few things here, did you ever do a compression test of engine? Also
headers and low restriction exhaust togheter with big tires and stock
tall gear can sometimes realy hurt MPG. At this stage of the game I
would do a compression check first and maybe a vacuum check too with a
gauge.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Earle Horton

This is a good case for small claims court, or Judge Judy. It looks as if
your current mechanic fixed a bunch of stuff that didn't need fixed, and
skipped stuff like the tranny leak that they should have seen. You could
threaten to take them to small claims court, and get them to reduce your
bill. You could argue that their incompetence increased the eventual cost
of repairs more than what was reasonable. You could actually take them to
small claims, and who knows? The judge will be a sympathetic car owner, eh?

It looks as if your Jeep dealer, who screwed up the tranny dipstick tube, is
different from your present mechanic. There is no doubt a statute of
limitations on civil claims in your state, but that runs from the time you
discover the injury, not from the time of the injury. If they are still in
business, you can sue them for part or all of the cost to put the dipstick
tube right. You could argue that what they should have done, is install a
new dipstick tube, at their own expense, instead of the half-assed repair
they did do.

Wrt the rest, oil change to check out sticky lifter theory, compression test
to check out bad valve theory. "Putt-putt" noise, bad gas mileage could
easily be bad ignition components.

Saludos cordiales,

Earle

"dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwdoc1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Mkmgi.42387$5j1.34976@newssvr21.news.prodigy. net...
> Hmmm
> You took it to the "EXPERTS" and they told you what was leaking, how much
it
> would cost to repair it, did the repair but that was not the problem.
> Should you have to pay for it?
> JMHO but they made the mistake and I think they should not have charged
you
> full price! Maybe a diagnostic fee but not the full price of their
mistake.
> If they said you needed the engine, you OKed it, the engine got installed
> but the problems remained..............would you pay?
>
> They should have cleaned up the areas and then examined things well BEFORE
> starting any sort of repairs!
>
> Was a vacuum gauge installed so that the sticky valves could be diagnosed?
> I will assumed that a compression test would tell you little.
> I will also assume that the valve springs are all in good shape. I have
> seen other vehicles with weak/broken valve springs.
>
> And no you need to read and answer here! lol
>
> Find another shop!
> JMHO
> --
> later,
> dave AKA vwdoc1
> 88 XJ 4.0 auto
>
>
> "D Gavilanes" <gavilan1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:yAhgi.1409$zA4.1337@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > Help! I have a YJ that is suffering from no more "pickup" on the
freeway,
> > except when really punched, terrible mileage (was 13.5 to 14 mpg, now
9.8
> > mpg), and load exhaust noise in my manifold that sounds like a cracked
> > pipe (but is not). I thought that I'd be changing out the Banks
> > TorqueTube header for the fourth time, but no, it's just my exhaust is
> > loud in my manifold, probably because my (ex) mechanic indicates that #3
> > and #4 lifters are sticking and slow responding. I took the Jeep in
> > because they advised me that a slow oil leak under my engine was a rear
> > main about to go out. So when this engine noise added itself to my
> > recently poor mileage (which changing plugs did not affect), I decided
to
> > throw some money at the YJ and get it fixed. They pulled the valve
cover
> > off, ID'd noisy and sticking lifters, and one that tapped loud, only one
> > in a while, (sounding like the engine wanted to throw a rod), and
decided
> > that since the lifters and valves could not be serviced from above, that
> > they'd just button it up again (1 hr. labor + gasket), because they
didn't
> > want to pull the head and have it worked on, since it might cause other
> > problems. Hmmm...
> >
> > They went ahead and changed the rear main seals (another $350 or so
> > labor), upper and lower, buttoned everything up, and got it back to me
> > (after one day rental car, my wallet). Next day, same oil leak. Took
> > it back. They thought that the oil pan gasket didn't seal, and resealed
> > it. Gave it back to me. Next day it leaked. Took it back.
> >
> > Gee, it wasn't the rear main seal after all. Turns out, they tell me,
> > that the back of the block on my 4.0L has oil plugs, and that one or
both
> > of those were leaking. (They actually implied that the rear main seal
job
> > wasn't necessary) Have to pull my tranny back to get to those plugs.
> > Another rental car, another day. Get the bad news that my local Jeep
> > dealer service department jacked up my tranny filler tube when they
> > serviced it three and a half years ago, breaking off the tip up to the
> > O-ring, inserting it deeper into the bell housing, and Permatexing the
> > crap out of the junction. Turns out my tranny dipstick sits 2.5" deeper
> > than it should for the past 3.5 years, now my tranny fluid looks like
old
> > engine oil, and they must service my tranny, since they're already
there.
> > New filler tube and diptsick, new day of rental car, probably another
$350
> > labor. Next day, turns out oil plugs are fine, no leak. Small tranny
leak
> > "squirting" onto rear of engine block, looking like engine oil leak.
Will
> > they eat the rear main job and dicking around with the oil plugs? Yeah,
> > right.
> >
> > Finally got my YJ back. Still sounds like **** (just like a badly
cracked
> > manifold), noisy and embarrassing as hell, with a "put-put" quality to
the
> > noise that makes me feel like I'm driving an Autopia car at the happiest
> > Place on Earth, still has crappy mileage, and is no longer an enjoyable
> > ride. I just put new 33s and AR rims on it, installed new Warn bumpers
> > front and rear (including tire carrier custom modified to hold trail
> > rack), and looked forward to enjoying my YJ this summer. Since I got my
> > YJ back from the shop two weeks ago, I put 28 miles on it driving it
back
> > home, and haven't moved it since. Extreme depression going on over
here.
> > I'm now driving my '99 durango to and from work, and with its 5.2L RAM
> > V-8, I'm getting 13.5 to 15 mpg. It's now cheaper to drive my gas
> > guzzling Durango than my straight six 4.0L YJ. When I finally got the
> > bill, I was shocked. They actually charged me for everything. Slightly
> > over $1,250, as I recall. I went from feeling like I was in very
trusted
> > hands, to feeling like hands were in my back pocket. Funny, the owner
had
> > the conscience to call me on the phone a few days later (since I work
next
> > door), and ask why I wasn't driving the YJ. I tried to be polite to
him,
> > but I wanted to chew him a new MAck truck sized rear main seal.
> >
> > So here's my dilemma. Do I get have the valves pulled and sent out, or
> > will this really cause me more problems down the trail? I take care of
> > this Jeep like you can't imagine, and the mechanic next door knows it.
It
> > looks relatively new, but it's a '93 with about 189K on it. Only work
> > ever done inside was a manifold cleanout before replacing it three
times.
> > Any advice here is appreciated. I need to get this smogged and
registered
> > in the next week or two. Sorry to bring such a lame story to the group.
> > I'm really bummed out.
> >
> > Please e-mail me, since I don't visit here very often anymore (too many
> > good memories, and lately way too much crap about goats). Thanks.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Doug Gavilanes
> > Garden Grove, CA.
>
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Earle Horton

This is a good case for small claims court, or Judge Judy. It looks as if
your current mechanic fixed a bunch of stuff that didn't need fixed, and
skipped stuff like the tranny leak that they should have seen. You could
threaten to take them to small claims court, and get them to reduce your
bill. You could argue that their incompetence increased the eventual cost
of repairs more than what was reasonable. You could actually take them to
small claims, and who knows? The judge will be a sympathetic car owner, eh?

It looks as if your Jeep dealer, who screwed up the tranny dipstick tube, is
different from your present mechanic. There is no doubt a statute of
limitations on civil claims in your state, but that runs from the time you
discover the injury, not from the time of the injury. If they are still in
business, you can sue them for part or all of the cost to put the dipstick
tube right. You could argue that what they should have done, is install a
new dipstick tube, at their own expense, instead of the half-assed repair
they did do.

Wrt the rest, oil change to check out sticky lifter theory, compression test
to check out bad valve theory. "Putt-putt" noise, bad gas mileage could
easily be bad ignition components.

Saludos cordiales,

Earle

"dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwdoc1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Mkmgi.42387$5j1.34976@newssvr21.news.prodigy. net...
> Hmmm
> You took it to the "EXPERTS" and they told you what was leaking, how much
it
> would cost to repair it, did the repair but that was not the problem.
> Should you have to pay for it?
> JMHO but they made the mistake and I think they should not have charged
you
> full price! Maybe a diagnostic fee but not the full price of their
mistake.
> If they said you needed the engine, you OKed it, the engine got installed
> but the problems remained..............would you pay?
>
> They should have cleaned up the areas and then examined things well BEFORE
> starting any sort of repairs!
>
> Was a vacuum gauge installed so that the sticky valves could be diagnosed?
> I will assumed that a compression test would tell you little.
> I will also assume that the valve springs are all in good shape. I have
> seen other vehicles with weak/broken valve springs.
>
> And no you need to read and answer here! lol
>
> Find another shop!
> JMHO
> --
> later,
> dave AKA vwdoc1
> 88 XJ 4.0 auto
>
>
> "D Gavilanes" <gavilan1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:yAhgi.1409$zA4.1337@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > Help! I have a YJ that is suffering from no more "pickup" on the
freeway,
> > except when really punched, terrible mileage (was 13.5 to 14 mpg, now
9.8
> > mpg), and load exhaust noise in my manifold that sounds like a cracked
> > pipe (but is not). I thought that I'd be changing out the Banks
> > TorqueTube header for the fourth time, but no, it's just my exhaust is
> > loud in my manifold, probably because my (ex) mechanic indicates that #3
> > and #4 lifters are sticking and slow responding. I took the Jeep in
> > because they advised me that a slow oil leak under my engine was a rear
> > main about to go out. So when this engine noise added itself to my
> > recently poor mileage (which changing plugs did not affect), I decided
to
> > throw some money at the YJ and get it fixed. They pulled the valve
cover
> > off, ID'd noisy and sticking lifters, and one that tapped loud, only one
> > in a while, (sounding like the engine wanted to throw a rod), and
decided
> > that since the lifters and valves could not be serviced from above, that
> > they'd just button it up again (1 hr. labor + gasket), because they
didn't
> > want to pull the head and have it worked on, since it might cause other
> > problems. Hmmm...
> >
> > They went ahead and changed the rear main seals (another $350 or so
> > labor), upper and lower, buttoned everything up, and got it back to me
> > (after one day rental car, my wallet). Next day, same oil leak. Took
> > it back. They thought that the oil pan gasket didn't seal, and resealed
> > it. Gave it back to me. Next day it leaked. Took it back.
> >
> > Gee, it wasn't the rear main seal after all. Turns out, they tell me,
> > that the back of the block on my 4.0L has oil plugs, and that one or
both
> > of those were leaking. (They actually implied that the rear main seal
job
> > wasn't necessary) Have to pull my tranny back to get to those plugs.
> > Another rental car, another day. Get the bad news that my local Jeep
> > dealer service department jacked up my tranny filler tube when they
> > serviced it three and a half years ago, breaking off the tip up to the
> > O-ring, inserting it deeper into the bell housing, and Permatexing the
> > crap out of the junction. Turns out my tranny dipstick sits 2.5" deeper
> > than it should for the past 3.5 years, now my tranny fluid looks like
old
> > engine oil, and they must service my tranny, since they're already
there.
> > New filler tube and diptsick, new day of rental car, probably another
$350
> > labor. Next day, turns out oil plugs are fine, no leak. Small tranny
leak
> > "squirting" onto rear of engine block, looking like engine oil leak.
Will
> > they eat the rear main job and dicking around with the oil plugs? Yeah,
> > right.
> >
> > Finally got my YJ back. Still sounds like **** (just like a badly
cracked
> > manifold), noisy and embarrassing as hell, with a "put-put" quality to
the
> > noise that makes me feel like I'm driving an Autopia car at the happiest
> > Place on Earth, still has crappy mileage, and is no longer an enjoyable
> > ride. I just put new 33s and AR rims on it, installed new Warn bumpers
> > front and rear (including tire carrier custom modified to hold trail
> > rack), and looked forward to enjoying my YJ this summer. Since I got my
> > YJ back from the shop two weeks ago, I put 28 miles on it driving it
back
> > home, and haven't moved it since. Extreme depression going on over
here.
> > I'm now driving my '99 durango to and from work, and with its 5.2L RAM
> > V-8, I'm getting 13.5 to 15 mpg. It's now cheaper to drive my gas
> > guzzling Durango than my straight six 4.0L YJ. When I finally got the
> > bill, I was shocked. They actually charged me for everything. Slightly
> > over $1,250, as I recall. I went from feeling like I was in very
trusted
> > hands, to feeling like hands were in my back pocket. Funny, the owner
had
> > the conscience to call me on the phone a few days later (since I work
next
> > door), and ask why I wasn't driving the YJ. I tried to be polite to
him,
> > but I wanted to chew him a new MAck truck sized rear main seal.
> >
> > So here's my dilemma. Do I get have the valves pulled and sent out, or
> > will this really cause me more problems down the trail? I take care of
> > this Jeep like you can't imagine, and the mechanic next door knows it.
It
> > looks relatively new, but it's a '93 with about 189K on it. Only work
> > ever done inside was a manifold cleanout before replacing it three
times.
> > Any advice here is appreciated. I need to get this smogged and
registered
> > in the next week or two. Sorry to bring such a lame story to the group.
> > I'm really bummed out.
> >
> > Please e-mail me, since I don't visit here very often anymore (too many
> > good memories, and lately way too much crap about goats). Thanks.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Doug Gavilanes
> > Garden Grove, CA.
>
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Earle Horton

This is a good case for small claims court, or Judge Judy. It looks as if
your current mechanic fixed a bunch of stuff that didn't need fixed, and
skipped stuff like the tranny leak that they should have seen. You could
threaten to take them to small claims court, and get them to reduce your
bill. You could argue that their incompetence increased the eventual cost
of repairs more than what was reasonable. You could actually take them to
small claims, and who knows? The judge will be a sympathetic car owner, eh?

It looks as if your Jeep dealer, who screwed up the tranny dipstick tube, is
different from your present mechanic. There is no doubt a statute of
limitations on civil claims in your state, but that runs from the time you
discover the injury, not from the time of the injury. If they are still in
business, you can sue them for part or all of the cost to put the dipstick
tube right. You could argue that what they should have done, is install a
new dipstick tube, at their own expense, instead of the half-assed repair
they did do.

Wrt the rest, oil change to check out sticky lifter theory, compression test
to check out bad valve theory. "Putt-putt" noise, bad gas mileage could
easily be bad ignition components.

Saludos cordiales,

Earle

"dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwdoc1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Mkmgi.42387$5j1.34976@newssvr21.news.prodigy. net...
> Hmmm
> You took it to the "EXPERTS" and they told you what was leaking, how much
it
> would cost to repair it, did the repair but that was not the problem.
> Should you have to pay for it?
> JMHO but they made the mistake and I think they should not have charged
you
> full price! Maybe a diagnostic fee but not the full price of their
mistake.
> If they said you needed the engine, you OKed it, the engine got installed
> but the problems remained..............would you pay?
>
> They should have cleaned up the areas and then examined things well BEFORE
> starting any sort of repairs!
>
> Was a vacuum gauge installed so that the sticky valves could be diagnosed?
> I will assumed that a compression test would tell you little.
> I will also assume that the valve springs are all in good shape. I have
> seen other vehicles with weak/broken valve springs.
>
> And no you need to read and answer here! lol
>
> Find another shop!
> JMHO
> --
> later,
> dave AKA vwdoc1
> 88 XJ 4.0 auto
>
>
> "D Gavilanes" <gavilan1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:yAhgi.1409$zA4.1337@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > Help! I have a YJ that is suffering from no more "pickup" on the
freeway,
> > except when really punched, terrible mileage (was 13.5 to 14 mpg, now
9.8
> > mpg), and load exhaust noise in my manifold that sounds like a cracked
> > pipe (but is not). I thought that I'd be changing out the Banks
> > TorqueTube header for the fourth time, but no, it's just my exhaust is
> > loud in my manifold, probably because my (ex) mechanic indicates that #3
> > and #4 lifters are sticking and slow responding. I took the Jeep in
> > because they advised me that a slow oil leak under my engine was a rear
> > main about to go out. So when this engine noise added itself to my
> > recently poor mileage (which changing plugs did not affect), I decided
to
> > throw some money at the YJ and get it fixed. They pulled the valve
cover
> > off, ID'd noisy and sticking lifters, and one that tapped loud, only one
> > in a while, (sounding like the engine wanted to throw a rod), and
decided
> > that since the lifters and valves could not be serviced from above, that
> > they'd just button it up again (1 hr. labor + gasket), because they
didn't
> > want to pull the head and have it worked on, since it might cause other
> > problems. Hmmm...
> >
> > They went ahead and changed the rear main seals (another $350 or so
> > labor), upper and lower, buttoned everything up, and got it back to me
> > (after one day rental car, my wallet). Next day, same oil leak. Took
> > it back. They thought that the oil pan gasket didn't seal, and resealed
> > it. Gave it back to me. Next day it leaked. Took it back.
> >
> > Gee, it wasn't the rear main seal after all. Turns out, they tell me,
> > that the back of the block on my 4.0L has oil plugs, and that one or
both
> > of those were leaking. (They actually implied that the rear main seal
job
> > wasn't necessary) Have to pull my tranny back to get to those plugs.
> > Another rental car, another day. Get the bad news that my local Jeep
> > dealer service department jacked up my tranny filler tube when they
> > serviced it three and a half years ago, breaking off the tip up to the
> > O-ring, inserting it deeper into the bell housing, and Permatexing the
> > crap out of the junction. Turns out my tranny dipstick sits 2.5" deeper
> > than it should for the past 3.5 years, now my tranny fluid looks like
old
> > engine oil, and they must service my tranny, since they're already
there.
> > New filler tube and diptsick, new day of rental car, probably another
$350
> > labor. Next day, turns out oil plugs are fine, no leak. Small tranny
leak
> > "squirting" onto rear of engine block, looking like engine oil leak.
Will
> > they eat the rear main job and dicking around with the oil plugs? Yeah,
> > right.
> >
> > Finally got my YJ back. Still sounds like **** (just like a badly
cracked
> > manifold), noisy and embarrassing as hell, with a "put-put" quality to
the
> > noise that makes me feel like I'm driving an Autopia car at the happiest
> > Place on Earth, still has crappy mileage, and is no longer an enjoyable
> > ride. I just put new 33s and AR rims on it, installed new Warn bumpers
> > front and rear (including tire carrier custom modified to hold trail
> > rack), and looked forward to enjoying my YJ this summer. Since I got my
> > YJ back from the shop two weeks ago, I put 28 miles on it driving it
back
> > home, and haven't moved it since. Extreme depression going on over
here.
> > I'm now driving my '99 durango to and from work, and with its 5.2L RAM
> > V-8, I'm getting 13.5 to 15 mpg. It's now cheaper to drive my gas
> > guzzling Durango than my straight six 4.0L YJ. When I finally got the
> > bill, I was shocked. They actually charged me for everything. Slightly
> > over $1,250, as I recall. I went from feeling like I was in very
trusted
> > hands, to feeling like hands were in my back pocket. Funny, the owner
had
> > the conscience to call me on the phone a few days later (since I work
next
> > door), and ask why I wasn't driving the YJ. I tried to be polite to
him,
> > but I wanted to chew him a new MAck truck sized rear main seal.
> >
> > So here's my dilemma. Do I get have the valves pulled and sent out, or
> > will this really cause me more problems down the trail? I take care of
> > this Jeep like you can't imagine, and the mechanic next door knows it.
It
> > looks relatively new, but it's a '93 with about 189K on it. Only work
> > ever done inside was a manifold cleanout before replacing it three
times.
> > Any advice here is appreciated. I need to get this smogged and
registered
> > in the next week or two. Sorry to bring such a lame story to the group.
> > I'm really bummed out.
> >
> > Please e-mail me, since I don't visit here very often anymore (too many
> > good memories, and lately way too much crap about goats). Thanks.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Doug Gavilanes
> > Garden Grove, CA.
>
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Earle Horton

This is a good case for small claims court, or Judge Judy. It looks as if
your current mechanic fixed a bunch of stuff that didn't need fixed, and
skipped stuff like the tranny leak that they should have seen. You could
threaten to take them to small claims court, and get them to reduce your
bill. You could argue that their incompetence increased the eventual cost
of repairs more than what was reasonable. You could actually take them to
small claims, and who knows? The judge will be a sympathetic car owner, eh?

It looks as if your Jeep dealer, who screwed up the tranny dipstick tube, is
different from your present mechanic. There is no doubt a statute of
limitations on civil claims in your state, but that runs from the time you
discover the injury, not from the time of the injury. If they are still in
business, you can sue them for part or all of the cost to put the dipstick
tube right. You could argue that what they should have done, is install a
new dipstick tube, at their own expense, instead of the half-assed repair
they did do.

Wrt the rest, oil change to check out sticky lifter theory, compression test
to check out bad valve theory. "Putt-putt" noise, bad gas mileage could
easily be bad ignition components.

Saludos cordiales,

Earle

"dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwdoc1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Mkmgi.42387$5j1.34976@newssvr21.news.prodigy. net...
> Hmmm
> You took it to the "EXPERTS" and they told you what was leaking, how much
it
> would cost to repair it, did the repair but that was not the problem.
> Should you have to pay for it?
> JMHO but they made the mistake and I think they should not have charged
you
> full price! Maybe a diagnostic fee but not the full price of their
mistake.
> If they said you needed the engine, you OKed it, the engine got installed
> but the problems remained..............would you pay?
>
> They should have cleaned up the areas and then examined things well BEFORE
> starting any sort of repairs!
>
> Was a vacuum gauge installed so that the sticky valves could be diagnosed?
> I will assumed that a compression test would tell you little.
> I will also assume that the valve springs are all in good shape. I have
> seen other vehicles with weak/broken valve springs.
>
> And no you need to read and answer here! lol
>
> Find another shop!
> JMHO
> --
> later,
> dave AKA vwdoc1
> 88 XJ 4.0 auto
>
>
> "D Gavilanes" <gavilan1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:yAhgi.1409$zA4.1337@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > Help! I have a YJ that is suffering from no more "pickup" on the
freeway,
> > except when really punched, terrible mileage (was 13.5 to 14 mpg, now
9.8
> > mpg), and load exhaust noise in my manifold that sounds like a cracked
> > pipe (but is not). I thought that I'd be changing out the Banks
> > TorqueTube header for the fourth time, but no, it's just my exhaust is
> > loud in my manifold, probably because my (ex) mechanic indicates that #3
> > and #4 lifters are sticking and slow responding. I took the Jeep in
> > because they advised me that a slow oil leak under my engine was a rear
> > main about to go out. So when this engine noise added itself to my
> > recently poor mileage (which changing plugs did not affect), I decided
to
> > throw some money at the YJ and get it fixed. They pulled the valve
cover
> > off, ID'd noisy and sticking lifters, and one that tapped loud, only one
> > in a while, (sounding like the engine wanted to throw a rod), and
decided
> > that since the lifters and valves could not be serviced from above, that
> > they'd just button it up again (1 hr. labor + gasket), because they
didn't
> > want to pull the head and have it worked on, since it might cause other
> > problems. Hmmm...
> >
> > They went ahead and changed the rear main seals (another $350 or so
> > labor), upper and lower, buttoned everything up, and got it back to me
> > (after one day rental car, my wallet). Next day, same oil leak. Took
> > it back. They thought that the oil pan gasket didn't seal, and resealed
> > it. Gave it back to me. Next day it leaked. Took it back.
> >
> > Gee, it wasn't the rear main seal after all. Turns out, they tell me,
> > that the back of the block on my 4.0L has oil plugs, and that one or
both
> > of those were leaking. (They actually implied that the rear main seal
job
> > wasn't necessary) Have to pull my tranny back to get to those plugs.
> > Another rental car, another day. Get the bad news that my local Jeep
> > dealer service department jacked up my tranny filler tube when they
> > serviced it three and a half years ago, breaking off the tip up to the
> > O-ring, inserting it deeper into the bell housing, and Permatexing the
> > crap out of the junction. Turns out my tranny dipstick sits 2.5" deeper
> > than it should for the past 3.5 years, now my tranny fluid looks like
old
> > engine oil, and they must service my tranny, since they're already
there.
> > New filler tube and diptsick, new day of rental car, probably another
$350
> > labor. Next day, turns out oil plugs are fine, no leak. Small tranny
leak
> > "squirting" onto rear of engine block, looking like engine oil leak.
Will
> > they eat the rear main job and dicking around with the oil plugs? Yeah,
> > right.
> >
> > Finally got my YJ back. Still sounds like **** (just like a badly
cracked
> > manifold), noisy and embarrassing as hell, with a "put-put" quality to
the
> > noise that makes me feel like I'm driving an Autopia car at the happiest
> > Place on Earth, still has crappy mileage, and is no longer an enjoyable
> > ride. I just put new 33s and AR rims on it, installed new Warn bumpers
> > front and rear (including tire carrier custom modified to hold trail
> > rack), and looked forward to enjoying my YJ this summer. Since I got my
> > YJ back from the shop two weeks ago, I put 28 miles on it driving it
back
> > home, and haven't moved it since. Extreme depression going on over
here.
> > I'm now driving my '99 durango to and from work, and with its 5.2L RAM
> > V-8, I'm getting 13.5 to 15 mpg. It's now cheaper to drive my gas
> > guzzling Durango than my straight six 4.0L YJ. When I finally got the
> > bill, I was shocked. They actually charged me for everything. Slightly
> > over $1,250, as I recall. I went from feeling like I was in very
trusted
> > hands, to feeling like hands were in my back pocket. Funny, the owner
had
> > the conscience to call me on the phone a few days later (since I work
next
> > door), and ask why I wasn't driving the YJ. I tried to be polite to
him,
> > but I wanted to chew him a new MAck truck sized rear main seal.
> >
> > So here's my dilemma. Do I get have the valves pulled and sent out, or
> > will this really cause me more problems down the trail? I take care of
> > this Jeep like you can't imagine, and the mechanic next door knows it.
It
> > looks relatively new, but it's a '93 with about 189K on it. Only work
> > ever done inside was a manifold cleanout before replacing it three
times.
> > Any advice here is appreciated. I need to get this smogged and
registered
> > in the next week or two. Sorry to bring such a lame story to the group.
> > I'm really bummed out.
> >
> > Please e-mail me, since I don't visit here very often anymore (too many
> > good memories, and lately way too much crap about goats). Thanks.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Doug Gavilanes
> > Garden Grove, CA.
>
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Mike Romain

You need a better mechanic, no real excuse for screwing up a big job
like that oil leak...

As others have mentioned, an oil change with an additive like 1 quart
ATF will clean out sludge and free up a sticky lifter and a compression
test will tell about a burned valve.

I agree with Earle about ignition parts maybe causing the bog and noise.
How old is the distributor cap and rotor?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

D Gavilanes wrote:
> Help! I have a YJ that is suffering from no more "pickup" on the
> freeway, except when really punched, terrible mileage (was 13.5 to 14
> mpg, now 9.8 mpg), and load exhaust noise in my manifold that sounds
> like a cracked pipe (but is not). I thought that I'd be changing out
> the Banks TorqueTube header for the fourth time, but no, it's just my
> exhaust is loud in my manifold, probably because my (ex) mechanic
> indicates that #3 and #4 lifters are sticking and slow responding. I
> took the Jeep in because they advised me that a slow oil leak under my
> engine was a rear main about to go out. So when this engine noise added
> itself to my recently poor mileage (which changing plugs did not
> affect), I decided to throw some money at the YJ and get it fixed. They
> pulled the valve cover off, ID'd noisy and sticking lifters, and one
> that tapped loud, only one in a while, (sounding like the engine wanted
> to throw a rod), and decided that since the lifters and valves could not
> be serviced from above, that they'd just button it up again (1 hr. labor
> + gasket), because they didn't want to pull the head and have it worked
> on, since it might cause other problems. Hmmm...
>
> They went ahead and changed the rear main seals (another $350 or so
> labor), upper and lower, buttoned everything up, and got it back to me
> (after one day rental car, my wallet). Next day, same oil leak. Took
> it back. They thought that the oil pan gasket didn't seal, and resealed
> it. Gave it back to me. Next day it leaked. Took it back.
>
> Gee, it wasn't the rear main seal after all. Turns out, they tell me,
> that the back of the block on my 4.0L has oil plugs, and that one or
> both of those were leaking. (They actually implied that the rear main
> seal job wasn't necessary) Have to pull my tranny back to get to those
> plugs. Another rental car, another day. Get the bad news that my local
> Jeep dealer service department jacked up my tranny filler tube when they
> serviced it three and a half years ago, breaking off the tip up to the
> O-ring, inserting it deeper into the bell housing, and Permatexing the
> crap out of the junction. Turns out my tranny dipstick sits 2.5" deeper
> than it should for the past 3.5 years, now my tranny fluid looks like
> old engine oil, and they must service my tranny, since they're already
> there. New filler tube and diptsick, new day of rental car, probably
> another $350 labor. Next day, turns out oil plugs are fine, no leak.
> Small tranny leak "squirting" onto rear of engine block, looking like
> engine oil leak. Will they eat the rear main job and dicking around
> with the oil plugs? Yeah, right.
>
> Finally got my YJ back. Still sounds like **** (just like a badly
> cracked manifold), noisy and embarrassing as hell, with a "put-put"
> quality to the noise that makes me feel like I'm driving an Autopia car
> at the happiest Place on Earth, still has crappy mileage, and is no
> longer an enjoyable ride. I just put new 33s and AR rims on it,
> installed new Warn bumpers front and rear (including tire carrier custom
> modified to hold trail rack), and looked forward to enjoying my YJ this
> summer. Since I got my YJ back from the shop two weeks ago, I put 28
> miles on it driving it back home, and haven't moved it since. Extreme
> depression going on over here. I'm now driving my '99 durango to and
> from work, and with its 5.2L RAM V-8, I'm getting 13.5 to 15 mpg. It's
> now cheaper to drive my gas guzzling Durango than my straight six 4.0L
> YJ. When I finally got the bill, I was shocked. They actually charged
> me for everything. Slightly over $1,250, as I recall. I went from
> feeling like I was in very trusted hands, to feeling like hands were in
> my back pocket. Funny, the owner had the conscience to call me on the
> phone a few days later (since I work next door), and ask why I wasn't
> driving the YJ. I tried to be polite to him, but I wanted to chew him a
> new MAck truck sized rear main seal.
>
> So here's my dilemma. Do I get have the valves pulled and sent out, or
> will this really cause me more problems down the trail? I take care of
> this Jeep like you can't imagine, and the mechanic next door knows it.
> It looks relatively new, but it's a '93 with about 189K on it. Only
> work ever done inside was a manifold cleanout before replacing it three
> times. Any advice here is appreciated. I need to get this smogged and
> registered in the next week or two. Sorry to bring such a lame story to
> the group. I'm really bummed out.
>
> Please e-mail me, since I don't visit here very often anymore (too many
> good memories, and lately way too much crap about goats). Thanks.
>
> Regards,
>
> Doug Gavilanes
> Garden Grove, CA.

Mike Romain

You need a better mechanic, no real excuse for screwing up a big job
like that oil leak...

As others have mentioned, an oil change with an additive like 1 quart
ATF will clean out sludge and free up a sticky lifter and a compression
test will tell about a burned valve.

I agree with Earle about ignition parts maybe causing the bog and noise.
How old is the distributor cap and rotor?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

D Gavilanes wrote:
> Help! I have a YJ that is suffering from no more "pickup" on the
> freeway, except when really punched, terrible mileage (was 13.5 to 14
> mpg, now 9.8 mpg), and load exhaust noise in my manifold that sounds
> like a cracked pipe (but is not). I thought that I'd be changing out
> the Banks TorqueTube header for the fourth time, but no, it's just my
> exhaust is loud in my manifold, probably because my (ex) mechanic
> indicates that #3 and #4 lifters are sticking and slow responding. I
> took the Jeep in because they advised me that a slow oil leak under my
> engine was a rear main about to go out. So when this engine noise added
> itself to my recently poor mileage (which changing plugs did not
> affect), I decided to throw some money at the YJ and get it fixed. They
> pulled the valve cover off, ID'd noisy and sticking lifters, and one
> that tapped loud, only one in a while, (sounding like the engine wanted
> to throw a rod), and decided that since the lifters and valves could not
> be serviced from above, that they'd just button it up again (1 hr. labor
> + gasket), because they didn't want to pull the head and have it worked
> on, since it might cause other problems. Hmmm...
>
> They went ahead and changed the rear main seals (another $350 or so
> labor), upper and lower, buttoned everything up, and got it back to me
> (after one day rental car, my wallet). Next day, same oil leak. Took
> it back. They thought that the oil pan gasket didn't seal, and resealed
> it. Gave it back to me. Next day it leaked. Took it back.
>
> Gee, it wasn't the rear main seal after all. Turns out, they tell me,
> that the back of the block on my 4.0L has oil plugs, and that one or
> both of those were leaking. (They actually implied that the rear main
> seal job wasn't necessary) Have to pull my tranny back to get to those
> plugs. Another rental car, another day. Get the bad news that my local
> Jeep dealer service department jacked up my tranny filler tube when they
> serviced it three and a half years ago, breaking off the tip up to the
> O-ring, inserting it deeper into the bell housing, and Permatexing the
> crap out of the junction. Turns out my tranny dipstick sits 2.5" deeper
> than it should for the past 3.5 years, now my tranny fluid looks like
> old engine oil, and they must service my tranny, since they're already
> there. New filler tube and diptsick, new day of rental car, probably
> another $350 labor. Next day, turns out oil plugs are fine, no leak.
> Small tranny leak "squirting" onto rear of engine block, looking like
> engine oil leak. Will they eat the rear main job and dicking around
> with the oil plugs? Yeah, right.
>
> Finally got my YJ back. Still sounds like **** (just like a badly
> cracked manifold), noisy and embarrassing as hell, with a "put-put"
> quality to the noise that makes me feel like I'm driving an Autopia car
> at the happiest Place on Earth, still has crappy mileage, and is no
> longer an enjoyable ride. I just put new 33s and AR rims on it,
> installed new Warn bumpers front and rear (including tire carrier custom
> modified to hold trail rack), and looked forward to enjoying my YJ this
> summer. Since I got my YJ back from the shop two weeks ago, I put 28
> miles on it driving it back home, and haven't moved it since. Extreme
> depression going on over here. I'm now driving my '99 durango to and
> from work, and with its 5.2L RAM V-8, I'm getting 13.5 to 15 mpg. It's
> now cheaper to drive my gas guzzling Durango than my straight six 4.0L
> YJ. When I finally got the bill, I was shocked. They actually charged
> me for everything. Slightly over $1,250, as I recall. I went from
> feeling like I was in very trusted hands, to feeling like hands were in
> my back pocket. Funny, the owner had the conscience to call me on the
> phone a few days later (since I work next door), and ask why I wasn't
> driving the YJ. I tried to be polite to him, but I wanted to chew him a
> new MAck truck sized rear main seal.
>
> So here's my dilemma. Do I get have the valves pulled and sent out, or
> will this really cause me more problems down the trail? I take care of
> this Jeep like you can't imagine, and the mechanic next door knows it.
> It looks relatively new, but it's a '93 with about 189K on it. Only
> work ever done inside was a manifold cleanout before replacing it three
> times. Any advice here is appreciated. I need to get this smogged and
> registered in the next week or two. Sorry to bring such a lame story to
> the group. I'm really bummed out.
>
> Please e-mail me, since I don't visit here very often anymore (too many
> good memories, and lately way too much crap about goats). Thanks.
>
> Regards,
>
> Doug Gavilanes
> Garden Grove, CA.

Mike Romain

You need a better mechanic, no real excuse for screwing up a big job
like that oil leak...

As others have mentioned, an oil change with an additive like 1 quart
ATF will clean out sludge and free up a sticky lifter and a compression
test will tell about a burned valve.

I agree with Earle about ignition parts maybe causing the bog and noise.
How old is the distributor cap and rotor?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

D Gavilanes wrote:
> Help! I have a YJ that is suffering from no more "pickup" on the
> freeway, except when really punched, terrible mileage (was 13.5 to 14
> mpg, now 9.8 mpg), and load exhaust noise in my manifold that sounds
> like a cracked pipe (but is not). I thought that I'd be changing out
> the Banks TorqueTube header for the fourth time, but no, it's just my
> exhaust is loud in my manifold, probably because my (ex) mechanic
> indicates that #3 and #4 lifters are sticking and slow responding. I
> took the Jeep in because they advised me that a slow oil leak under my
> engine was a rear main about to go out. So when this engine noise added
> itself to my recently poor mileage (which changing plugs did not
> affect), I decided to throw some money at the YJ and get it fixed. They
> pulled the valve cover off, ID'd noisy and sticking lifters, and one
> that tapped loud, only one in a while, (sounding like the engine wanted
> to throw a rod), and decided that since the lifters and valves could not
> be serviced from above, that they'd just button it up again (1 hr. labor
> + gasket), because they didn't want to pull the head and have it worked
> on, since it might cause other problems. Hmmm...
>
> They went ahead and changed the rear main seals (another $350 or so
> labor), upper and lower, buttoned everything up, and got it back to me
> (after one day rental car, my wallet). Next day, same oil leak. Took
> it back. They thought that the oil pan gasket didn't seal, and resealed
> it. Gave it back to me. Next day it leaked. Took it back.
>
> Gee, it wasn't the rear main seal after all. Turns out, they tell me,
> that the back of the block on my 4.0L has oil plugs, and that one or
> both of those were leaking. (They actually implied that the rear main
> seal job wasn't necessary) Have to pull my tranny back to get to those
> plugs. Another rental car, another day. Get the bad news that my local
> Jeep dealer service department jacked up my tranny filler tube when they
> serviced it three and a half years ago, breaking off the tip up to the
> O-ring, inserting it deeper into the bell housing, and Permatexing the
> crap out of the junction. Turns out my tranny dipstick sits 2.5" deeper
> than it should for the past 3.5 years, now my tranny fluid looks like
> old engine oil, and they must service my tranny, since they're already
> there. New filler tube and diptsick, new day of rental car, probably
> another $350 labor. Next day, turns out oil plugs are fine, no leak.
> Small tranny leak "squirting" onto rear of engine block, looking like
> engine oil leak. Will they eat the rear main job and dicking around
> with the oil plugs? Yeah, right.
>
> Finally got my YJ back. Still sounds like **** (just like a badly
> cracked manifold), noisy and embarrassing as hell, with a "put-put"
> quality to the noise that makes me feel like I'm driving an Autopia car
> at the happiest Place on Earth, still has crappy mileage, and is no
> longer an enjoyable ride. I just put new 33s and AR rims on it,
> installed new Warn bumpers front and rear (including tire carrier custom
> modified to hold trail rack), and looked forward to enjoying my YJ this
> summer. Since I got my YJ back from the shop two weeks ago, I put 28
> miles on it driving it back home, and haven't moved it since. Extreme
> depression going on over here. I'm now driving my '99 durango to and
> from work, and with its 5.2L RAM V-8, I'm getting 13.5 to 15 mpg. It's
> now cheaper to drive my gas guzzling Durango than my straight six 4.0L
> YJ. When I finally got the bill, I was shocked. They actually charged
> me for everything. Slightly over $1,250, as I recall. I went from
> feeling like I was in very trusted hands, to feeling like hands were in
> my back pocket. Funny, the owner had the conscience to call me on the
> phone a few days later (since I work next door), and ask why I wasn't
> driving the YJ. I tried to be polite to him, but I wanted to chew him a
> new MAck truck sized rear main seal.
>
> So here's my dilemma. Do I get have the valves pulled and sent out, or
> will this really cause me more problems down the trail? I take care of
> this Jeep like you can't imagine, and the mechanic next door knows it.
> It looks relatively new, but it's a '93 with about 189K on it. Only
> work ever done inside was a manifold cleanout before replacing it three
> times. Any advice here is appreciated. I need to get this smogged and
> registered in the next week or two. Sorry to bring such a lame story to
> the group. I'm really bummed out.
>
> Please e-mail me, since I don't visit here very often anymore (too many
> good memories, and lately way too much crap about goats). Thanks.
>
> Regards,
>
> Doug Gavilanes
> Garden Grove, CA.

Mike Romain

You need a better mechanic, no real excuse for screwing up a big job
like that oil leak...

As others have mentioned, an oil change with an additive like 1 quart
ATF will clean out sludge and free up a sticky lifter and a compression
test will tell about a burned valve.

I agree with Earle about ignition parts maybe causing the bog and noise.
How old is the distributor cap and rotor?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

D Gavilanes wrote:
> Help! I have a YJ that is suffering from no more "pickup" on the
> freeway, except when really punched, terrible mileage (was 13.5 to 14
> mpg, now 9.8 mpg), and load exhaust noise in my manifold that sounds
> like a cracked pipe (but is not). I thought that I'd be changing out
> the Banks TorqueTube header for the fourth time, but no, it's just my
> exhaust is loud in my manifold, probably because my (ex) mechanic
> indicates that #3 and #4 lifters are sticking and slow responding. I
> took the Jeep in because they advised me that a slow oil leak under my
> engine was a rear main about to go out. So when this engine noise added
> itself to my recently poor mileage (which changing plugs did not
> affect), I decided to throw some money at the YJ and get it fixed. They
> pulled the valve cover off, ID'd noisy and sticking lifters, and one
> that tapped loud, only one in a while, (sounding like the engine wanted
> to throw a rod), and decided that since the lifters and valves could not
> be serviced from above, that they'd just button it up again (1 hr. labor
> + gasket), because they didn't want to pull the head and have it worked
> on, since it might cause other problems. Hmmm...
>
> They went ahead and changed the rear main seals (another $350 or so
> labor), upper and lower, buttoned everything up, and got it back to me
> (after one day rental car, my wallet). Next day, same oil leak. Took
> it back. They thought that the oil pan gasket didn't seal, and resealed
> it. Gave it back to me. Next day it leaked. Took it back.
>
> Gee, it wasn't the rear main seal after all. Turns out, they tell me,
> that the back of the block on my 4.0L has oil plugs, and that one or
> both of those were leaking. (They actually implied that the rear main
> seal job wasn't necessary) Have to pull my tranny back to get to those
> plugs. Another rental car, another day. Get the bad news that my local
> Jeep dealer service department jacked up my tranny filler tube when they
> serviced it three and a half years ago, breaking off the tip up to the
> O-ring, inserting it deeper into the bell housing, and Permatexing the
> crap out of the junction. Turns out my tranny dipstick sits 2.5" deeper
> than it should for the past 3.5 years, now my tranny fluid looks like
> old engine oil, and they must service my tranny, since they're already
> there. New filler tube and diptsick, new day of rental car, probably
> another $350 labor. Next day, turns out oil plugs are fine, no leak.
> Small tranny leak "squirting" onto rear of engine block, looking like
> engine oil leak. Will they eat the rear main job and dicking around
> with the oil plugs? Yeah, right.
>
> Finally got my YJ back. Still sounds like **** (just like a badly
> cracked manifold), noisy and embarrassing as hell, with a "put-put"
> quality to the noise that makes me feel like I'm driving an Autopia car
> at the happiest Place on Earth, still has crappy mileage, and is no
> longer an enjoyable ride. I just put new 33s and AR rims on it,
> installed new Warn bumpers front and rear (including tire carrier custom
> modified to hold trail rack), and looked forward to enjoying my YJ this
> summer. Since I got my YJ back from the shop two weeks ago, I put 28
> miles on it driving it back home, and haven't moved it since. Extreme
> depression going on over here. I'm now driving my '99 durango to and
> from work, and with its 5.2L RAM V-8, I'm getting 13.5 to 15 mpg. It's
> now cheaper to drive my gas guzzling Durango than my straight six 4.0L
> YJ. When I finally got the bill, I was shocked. They actually charged
> me for everything. Slightly over $1,250, as I recall. I went from
> feeling like I was in very trusted hands, to feeling like hands were in
> my back pocket. Funny, the owner had the conscience to call me on the
> phone a few days later (since I work next door), and ask why I wasn't
> driving the YJ. I tried to be polite to him, but I wanted to chew him a
> new MAck truck sized rear main seal.
>
> So here's my dilemma. Do I get have the valves pulled and sent out, or
> will this really cause me more problems down the trail? I take care of
> this Jeep like you can't imagine, and the mechanic next door knows it.
> It looks relatively new, but it's a '93 with about 189K on it. Only
> work ever done inside was a manifold cleanout before replacing it three
> times. Any advice here is appreciated. I need to get this smogged and
> registered in the next week or two. Sorry to bring such a lame story to
> the group. I'm really bummed out.
>
> Please e-mail me, since I don't visit here very often anymore (too many
> good memories, and lately way too much crap about goats). Thanks.
>
> Regards,
>
> Doug Gavilanes
> Garden Grove, CA.