Mike Romain

I have watched lots of those happen over the years. Never been in the
middle thankfully.

Mike

"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
> They've been playing over and over again on television out here is
> God's country, an icy road in Colorado where about ten cars slowing side
> down hill and crash into a line of previously crashed cars. Some hanging
> out their doors trying to stop using their feet.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > Not in the context of this thread Bill. The OP was stopped, well his
> > 'wheels' were stopped....
> >
> > But even with no power steering or brakes you can still use them, you
> > just have to push harder.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > >
> > > Then you would be stopped, and not worried about controlling slide
> > > direction.
> > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > RW wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Here's a dumb question, but if, at some point, you don't press your clutch
> > > > pedal your engine stalls and you loose your power-steering, brakes, etc?

Mike Romain

I have watched lots of those happen over the years. Never been in the
middle thankfully.

Mike

"L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
> They've been playing over and over again on television out here is
> God's country, an icy road in Colorado where about ten cars slowing side
> down hill and crash into a line of previously crashed cars. Some hanging
> out their doors trying to stop using their feet.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > Not in the context of this thread Bill. The OP was stopped, well his
> > 'wheels' were stopped....
> >
> > But even with no power steering or brakes you can still use them, you
> > just have to push harder.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > >
> > > Then you would be stopped, and not worried about controlling slide
> > > direction.
> > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > RW wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Here's a dumb question, but if, at some point, you don't press your clutch
> > > > pedal your engine stalls and you loose your power-steering, brakes, etc?

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Knocking on wood, and doing a little trip planning, like I learn
with my first icy road trip the down hill roads that ended in an
intersection, and that there was usually a long way around it.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I have watched lots of those happen over the years. Never been in the
> middle thankfully.
>
> Mike

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Knocking on wood, and doing a little trip planning, like I learn
with my first icy road trip the down hill roads that ended in an
intersection, and that there was usually a long way around it.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I have watched lots of those happen over the years. Never been in the
> middle thankfully.
>
> Mike

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Knocking on wood, and doing a little trip planning, like I learn
with my first icy road trip the down hill roads that ended in an
intersection, and that there was usually a long way around it.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I have watched lots of those happen over the years. Never been in the
> middle thankfully.
>
> Mike

Matt Osborn

I was traveling on South 35W just outside Minneapolis when I
encountered an accident blocking the entire freeway. When I used the
brakes to stop, I discovered that it was one of those 'black ice'
conditions and was barely able to stop before hitting the already
crashed vehicles.

I looked in the rear view mirror only to see a tractor-trailer that
wasn't going to be able to stop. I slid down in my seat and cringed
like a puppy caught peeing.

Next thing I saw was the truck overturning in the medium to my left.
The trucker managed to steer his rig off the road rather than pile
into the stopped traffic.

I jumped out of my car, climbed up the rig, opened the passenger door
and help the unharmed trucker climb out of his rig. It seemed like
Christmas, Thanksgiving and my birthday all rolled into one. I do
believe I owe that man my life and I let him know it.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:48:54 -0800, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
<----------@***.net> wrote:

>Hi Mike,
> They've been playing over and over again on television out here is
>God's country, an icy road in Colorado where about ten cars slowing side
>down hill and crash into a line of previously crashed cars. Some hanging
>out their doors trying to stop using their feet.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>Mike Romain wrote:
>>
>> Not in the context of this thread Bill. The OP was stopped, well his
>> 'wheels' were stopped....
>>
>> But even with no power steering or brakes you can still use them, you
>> just have to push harder.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>
>> "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>> >
>> > Then you would be stopped, and not worried about controlling slide
>> > direction.
>> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >
>> > RW wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Here's a dumb question, but if, at some point, you don't press your clutch
>> > > pedal your engine stalls and you loose your power-steering, brakes, etc?

Matt Osborn

I was traveling on South 35W just outside Minneapolis when I
encountered an accident blocking the entire freeway. When I used the
brakes to stop, I discovered that it was one of those 'black ice'
conditions and was barely able to stop before hitting the already
crashed vehicles.

I looked in the rear view mirror only to see a tractor-trailer that
wasn't going to be able to stop. I slid down in my seat and cringed
like a puppy caught peeing.

Next thing I saw was the truck overturning in the medium to my left.
The trucker managed to steer his rig off the road rather than pile
into the stopped traffic.

I jumped out of my car, climbed up the rig, opened the passenger door
and help the unharmed trucker climb out of his rig. It seemed like
Christmas, Thanksgiving and my birthday all rolled into one. I do
believe I owe that man my life and I let him know it.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:48:54 -0800, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
<----------@***.net> wrote:

>Hi Mike,
> They've been playing over and over again on television out here is
>God's country, an icy road in Colorado where about ten cars slowing side
>down hill and crash into a line of previously crashed cars. Some hanging
>out their doors trying to stop using their feet.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>Mike Romain wrote:
>>
>> Not in the context of this thread Bill. The OP was stopped, well his
>> 'wheels' were stopped....
>>
>> But even with no power steering or brakes you can still use them, you
>> just have to push harder.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>
>> "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>> >
>> > Then you would be stopped, and not worried about controlling slide
>> > direction.
>> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >
>> > RW wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Here's a dumb question, but if, at some point, you don't press your clutch
>> > > pedal your engine stalls and you loose your power-steering, brakes, etc?

Matt Osborn

I was traveling on South 35W just outside Minneapolis when I
encountered an accident blocking the entire freeway. When I used the
brakes to stop, I discovered that it was one of those 'black ice'
conditions and was barely able to stop before hitting the already
crashed vehicles.

I looked in the rear view mirror only to see a tractor-trailer that
wasn't going to be able to stop. I slid down in my seat and cringed
like a puppy caught peeing.

Next thing I saw was the truck overturning in the medium to my left.
The trucker managed to steer his rig off the road rather than pile
into the stopped traffic.

I jumped out of my car, climbed up the rig, opened the passenger door
and help the unharmed trucker climb out of his rig. It seemed like
Christmas, Thanksgiving and my birthday all rolled into one. I do
believe I owe that man my life and I let him know it.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:48:54 -0800, L.W.(ßill) ------ III
<----------@***.net> wrote:

>Hi Mike,
> They've been playing over and over again on television out here is
>God's country, an icy road in Colorado where about ten cars slowing side
>down hill and crash into a line of previously crashed cars. Some hanging
>out their doors trying to stop using their feet.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
>Mike Romain wrote:
>>
>> Not in the context of this thread Bill. The OP was stopped, well his
>> 'wheels' were stopped....
>>
>> But even with no power steering or brakes you can still use them, you
>> just have to push harder.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>
>> "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
>> >
>> > Then you would be stopped, and not worried about controlling slide
>> > direction.
>> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>> >
>> > RW wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Here's a dumb question, but if, at some point, you don't press your clutch
>> > > pedal your engine stalls and you loose your power-steering, brakes, etc?

Jeff Strickland

There was a screamer before the commercial on the news last night, I don't
know where. The screamer was something like, "A 26 car pile up when we
return." I looked up from the 'puter to watch the pile up after the
commercial was over. The trouble it seems was on a residential street, at
least a street with a crown in the road. The cars were sliding over to the
curb, which then treated them like a bowling ball in the gutter, and they
all slid down the street into the next car. I saw one guy (maybe a woman, I
couldn't tell) that was hanging onto the door from outside, trying to hold
the car back so it wouldn't slide anymore. This was the passenger, the
driver was standing on the brake pedal. I saw another driver actually JUMP
FROM THE CAR and let it go on its way without her. The trouble for her was
then that the next car was coming, and she was not protected by the cage of
her car anymore. She managed to get out of the way in time, but the entire
scene was very surreal.

I don't know why these people had to stop, I assume the light turned red.
There was no significant speed involved, so the people were being careful,
or trying to be careful.




"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:41E45C92.41B8A9A1@sympatico.ca...
> You 'desert rats' have no idea what it is like to have absolutely 'no'
> control at all no matter what you do. LOL!
>
> It is a really spooky feeling just sitting there and the damn vehicle is
> going to do what 'it' wants to, no matter how hard you curse at it or
> hit pedals!
>
> All you can do is lock it up to attempt to stop or aim it right to the
> 'correct' ditch and hope it isn't too deep a ditch or too long a walk
> out....
>
> We were in those conditions over New Years.....
>
> Mike
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >
> > That is not the scenario we were talking about, Bill.
> >
> > We were talking about a stationary vehicle slipping sideways in the ice.
> >
> > ABS needs a minimim speed to enable it, then it shuts off when speeds
drop
> > below another threshold. Effectively meaning that a car must attain a
speed
> > to set the system, and this speed is higher than the speed at which the
> > system knows it won't work effectively anymore, so it shuts down.
> >
> > And, the topic that started this was a guy telling us how he was not
able to
> > prevent sliding backwards, and he depressed the clutch pedal in an
attempt
> > to improve his immediate predicament. Regardless of what his brakes may
or
> > may not have been able to do for him, removing his engine from the
equation
> > by depresssing the clutch was the wrong thing to do.
> >
> > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:41E44B1F.38C56F10@***.net...
> > > So Jeff, do you believe if you are sliding at eleven miles an hour and
> > > release your brakes, ABS will allow you to reapply your brakes if one
> > > tire on each axle has no traction?
> > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Matt, despite anything Bill has to say to the contrary, you are
right.
> > If
> > > > you are stopped with all four tires locked up, and the vehicle is
> > sliding
> > > > anyway, ABS will not change things. ABS drops out at speeds below
about
> > > > 10mph and allows the brakes to lock up anyway.

Jeff Strickland

There was a screamer before the commercial on the news last night, I don't
know where. The screamer was something like, "A 26 car pile up when we
return." I looked up from the 'puter to watch the pile up after the
commercial was over. The trouble it seems was on a residential street, at
least a street with a crown in the road. The cars were sliding over to the
curb, which then treated them like a bowling ball in the gutter, and they
all slid down the street into the next car. I saw one guy (maybe a woman, I
couldn't tell) that was hanging onto the door from outside, trying to hold
the car back so it wouldn't slide anymore. This was the passenger, the
driver was standing on the brake pedal. I saw another driver actually JUMP
FROM THE CAR and let it go on its way without her. The trouble for her was
then that the next car was coming, and she was not protected by the cage of
her car anymore. She managed to get out of the way in time, but the entire
scene was very surreal.

I don't know why these people had to stop, I assume the light turned red.
There was no significant speed involved, so the people were being careful,
or trying to be careful.




"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:41E45C92.41B8A9A1@sympatico.ca...
> You 'desert rats' have no idea what it is like to have absolutely 'no'
> control at all no matter what you do. LOL!
>
> It is a really spooky feeling just sitting there and the damn vehicle is
> going to do what 'it' wants to, no matter how hard you curse at it or
> hit pedals!
>
> All you can do is lock it up to attempt to stop or aim it right to the
> 'correct' ditch and hope it isn't too deep a ditch or too long a walk
> out....
>
> We were in those conditions over New Years.....
>
> Mike
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >
> > That is not the scenario we were talking about, Bill.
> >
> > We were talking about a stationary vehicle slipping sideways in the ice.
> >
> > ABS needs a minimim speed to enable it, then it shuts off when speeds
drop
> > below another threshold. Effectively meaning that a car must attain a
speed
> > to set the system, and this speed is higher than the speed at which the
> > system knows it won't work effectively anymore, so it shuts down.
> >
> > And, the topic that started this was a guy telling us how he was not
able to
> > prevent sliding backwards, and he depressed the clutch pedal in an
attempt
> > to improve his immediate predicament. Regardless of what his brakes may
or
> > may not have been able to do for him, removing his engine from the
equation
> > by depresssing the clutch was the wrong thing to do.
> >
> > "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> > news:41E44B1F.38C56F10@***.net...
> > > So Jeff, do you believe if you are sliding at eleven miles an hour and
> > > release your brakes, ABS will allow you to reapply your brakes if one
> > > tire on each axle has no traction?
> > > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> > >
> > > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Matt, despite anything Bill has to say to the contrary, you are
right.
> > If
> > > > you are stopped with all four tires locked up, and the vehicle is
> > sliding
> > > > anyway, ABS will not change things. ABS drops out at speeds below
about
> > > > 10mph and allows the brakes to lock up anyway.